Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - Standalone => Diaspora => Topic started by: sedobren on September 18, 2012, 06:00:05 pm

Title: Those old pics
Post by: sedobren on September 18, 2012, 06:00:05 pm: Probably i'm talking about something that has been already explained but...the screenshots that you can see in the Diaspora's website (http://diaspora.hard-light.net/screenshots.html) means that the developing team has already made Mark II and pegasus/galactica models?
Or maybe thees are old models that doesn't work with the actual release?
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Ace on September 18, 2012, 06:06:07 pm: Quote from: sedobren on September 18, 2012, 06:00:05 pm
Or maybe thees are old models that doesn't work with the actual release?

You answered that yourself.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Dragon on September 18, 2012, 06:15:29 pm: What exactly is the problem with them? I don't see any reason why wouldn't they work, especially the Colonial One, which IIRC isn't armed. Mark II Viper uses the same KEW and missiles as Mark VII, so I don't see why this one wouldn't work either (isn't that the same model as in BTRL, BTW?). In fact, Colonial One was one of the models I was looking forward to in Diaspora.
EDIT: It just occurred to me that Mk II and the Blackbird could be missing cockpit models. Still doesn't excuse the Colonial One though.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Ace on September 18, 2012, 06:20:24 pm: Not the same model as BtRL at all. Cockpits are needed, and with some of these meshes what might look complete isn't.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: General Battuta on September 18, 2012, 06:26:21 pm: Quote from: Dragon on September 18, 2012, 06:15:29 pm
What exactly is the problem with them? I don't see any reason why wouldn't they work, especially the Colonial One, which IIRC isn't armed. Mark II Viper uses the same KEW and missiles as Mark VII, so I don't see why this one wouldn't work either (isn't that the same model as in BTRL, BTW?). In fact, Colonial One was one of the models I was looking forward to in Diaspora.
EDIT: It just occurred to me that Mk II and the Blackbird could be missing cockpit models. Still doesn't excuse the Colonial One though.

Yeah, man, there's no excuse for these hard working unpaid people to fail to give you a computer model of a spaceship. You have RIGHTS
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Dragon on September 18, 2012, 06:32:33 pm: Well, they showed it off and teased people with it, so it'd be nice to finally see it released. :)
Also, I just realized I might try porting BTRL stuff (Majahual and Viper Mk II) to Diaspora. Perhaps the asteroids too. They'd make decent placeholders until Diaspora releases it's own versions. More ships = more 3rd party mission possibilities.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Ace on September 18, 2012, 07:05:16 pm: There's nothing stopping people from making new prospective models and joining the team...

On the subject of BtRL stuff, since many of those assets are by Omni we can't officially port anything over as per agreements made.

Spoiler:
Of course unofficially you could do whatever you want...
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: karajorma on September 18, 2012, 07:22:48 pm: To be honest I think we've intimidated people from joining. :p

It's not like we aren't clearly stating we want people to join.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Thaeris on September 18, 2012, 08:56:48 pm: I was rather impressed by KewlToys' Stealthstar. I do think that by revisiting the geometry/UV map, the model in question there could easily be recovered and put to good use. However, given the feedback... "intimidated people from joining" might be a pretty good way of putting things.

Furthermore, I note that with several projects I've seen, many teams seem to have serious aversions to cooperation with less experienced team members. Thus, less skilled individuals who would otherwise volunteer to contribute a portion of a good model don't do anything at all, or do something, and are then turned away after some element of their contribution falls short of expectations. Quality control and expectations are great things to have, but it's probably also true that you can have those things while working around the skillsets of those who would want to offer their services.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: karajorma on September 18, 2012, 11:22:56 pm: Quote from: Thaeris on September 18, 2012, 08:56:48 pm
I was rather impressed by KewlToys' Stealthstar. I do think that by revisiting the geometry/UV map, the model in question there could easily be recovered and put to good use.

The simple fact there is that we already have a much better version than KewlToys one. But in general it's important for us to keep our standards high and although KewlToy's ship was good, it wasn't good enough. But if he keeps working at it, I'm sure he'll be good enough one day.

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However, given the feedback... "intimidated people from joining" might be a pretty good way of putting things.

I was more on about the fact that many people feel we don't need more staff since we must have people if we were able to release. The simple fact is that about 1/3 of the total staff are active at any one time so we actually really could use more modellers, etc quite badly.

Quote
Furthermore, I note that with several projects I've seen, many teams seem to have serious aversions to cooperation with less experienced team members. Thus, less skilled individuals who would otherwise volunteer to contribute a portion of a good model don't do anything at all, or do something, and are then turned away after some element of their contribution falls short of expectations. Quality control and expectations are great things to have, but it's probably also true that you can have those things while working around the skillsets of those who would want to offer their services.

That's the main reason we only take on people who do have the talent.

We've tried taking on people who we hope can develop the skills we need in the past (both in Diaspora and in BtRL before that) and it's been met with limited success. What you probably haven't realised is that we take on large numbers of people who do have the talent we need and yet still can't manage to produce the models we need. Taking on people who don't even have the talent is a step too far. If they can't produce the work we need, if their work is going to have to be remodelled later anyway, why are we getting more talented team members to stop work on their assets to babysit someone whose work we can't even use?
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Thaeris on September 18, 2012, 11:45:40 pm: Point taken! I'm not sure what else I might add to back up what I said before without repeating myself, either. However, I still do wish it was easier to collaborate with potential contributors - hopefully without slowing overall progress down.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: karajorma on September 19, 2012, 12:47:44 am: I think the best thing people can do is get involved with Diaspora modding. Of course the team will have to help there too but it means the modders have to be more independent, more focused. And once they start getting really good, we can go all TBP on them and assimilate them into the team.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Ace on September 19, 2012, 01:47:15 am: Thaeris: one issue we've also had is very good modelers who stopped halfway through or stopped since they got bored with a project during the finalization process (things like debris, etc.). Quite a few very good ships from prospective people never saw the light of day because of this...
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: sedobren on September 19, 2012, 02:30:51 am: A lot of well made mods has receive great advantages from indimentent sub-modding, like Third age for Medieval (maybe you should open a post for sub modding to encourage it?)
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 19, 2012, 02:35:41 am: Define submodding ?
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: sedobren on September 19, 2012, 02:37:58 am: mods of a mod!
(usually little changes like different balacement, different model textures etc., that kind of tings that goes into the 3rd party stuff section)
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 19, 2012, 02:41:53 am: We... don't really make a difference here. I don't really see the need to ?

Also we do have a whole subboard dedicated to Diaspora modding, soooo...
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: sedobren on September 19, 2012, 02:46:14 am: yes i konw! anyway the point is: 3rd party contents keep a mod alive between "official" releases (and maybe reduce thei release time)
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: karajorma on September 19, 2012, 04:00:48 am: Oh, we strongly encourage 3rd party modders to get involved. As you can see, we're already working hard on encouraging FREDders to make new missions.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Dain on September 19, 2012, 06:08:45 am: What about some of the models here. While most of them have been used there are still a few exciting ones here that'd be fantastic to see in future releases. The refinery from Hand of God for example..

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=61616.0

Are some of these still likely to be used or have they been lost/decided to be no longer suitable?

Nice quote from back then too
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Battlestar Theseus - (Concept by Starslayer and Scotchy. Model by Meleardil)
We're keeping this one under wraps for now. It looks pretty now, but it will look prettier when we do show it off.

Oh yes indeed.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: newman on September 19, 2012, 07:00:32 am: Sometimes it may not be visible on the surface, but there's a lot more to getting a ship to game-ready status than just having it look pretty from a specific angle and lighting on a screenshot. The ships that were ready were released and the others, well.. that's the whole point of episodic releases.

The mark 2, for example, is an iconic ship to the show. It doesn't have a cockpit yet, I'll build it myself when time allows; but also, releasing the show's iconic fighter only to see it in multi would be kind of lame. So we decided to hold that one back until we have it 100% completed and can put it in a story where it makes sense to fly it without it feeling forced in just for the sake of it (which would have been the case if we used it on the Theseus in R1).

The Pegasus isn't much more than a placeholder. The model is old by today's standards (BtRL age, and it was a placeholder back then), and even if you found it nice in the old screenshots do remember you didn't really see it up close. It looks downright horrible from close range, and that's the least of it's problems so it's quite possible it'll get rebuilt from scratch so it's quality can match or surpass that of the Theseus.

The Colonial One I have to re-check, but it's possible we'll put it in R2 - but don't hold me to that just yet :)
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: karajorma on September 19, 2012, 08:39:46 am: Quote from: Dain on September 19, 2012, 06:08:45 am
What about some of the models here. While most of them have been used there are still a few exciting ones here that'd be fantastic to see in future releases. The refinery from Hand of God for example..

The refinery is done but unless we want it floating in space, we've got very little we can do with it until we get someone to model an asteroid for it. That means dragging someone off an R2 task in order to make a model we have little use for without a completed MK II model to attack it which requires.....

And so you see the issue.

Frankly we'd rather concentrate on the ships we need for R2. If we have time, then we can worry about bonus stuff.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Dain on September 19, 2012, 10:49:09 am: Oh of course I fully appreciate that. Just wondering if the asset(s) were still in your hands to be used at SOME point in the future.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: karajorma on September 19, 2012, 10:57:11 am: Anything you've seen in the Dev blog is still ours.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: sedobren on September 19, 2012, 11:02:14 am: a little (semi)OT: while look at those pictures i was wondering wich 3d modeling program you use.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Frak_Tastic on September 19, 2012, 11:44:09 pm: I for one am happy to NOT see the Monarch again so soon. Hearing that old fart of a captain yelling to me about rocks hitting his ship drove me up the wall.

I was all like "Dude, you mine sh*t in an ASTEROID FIELD! Those things ain't made out of paper mache! Learn how to fly, dingus!"
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on September 19, 2012, 11:45:21 pm: Quote from: sedobren on September 19, 2012, 11:02:14 am
a little (semi)OT: while look at those pictures i was wondering wich 3d modeling program you use.

Whatever the artist in question prefers. Max seems to be predominant, while personally I use Modo and LightWave.
Title: Re: Those old pics
Post by: newman on September 20, 2012, 05:19:22 am: Quote from: Frak_Tastic on September 19, 2012, 11:44:09 pm
I for one am happy to NOT see the Monarch again so soon. Hearing that old fart of a captain yelling to me about rocks hitting his ship drove me up the wall.

I was all like "Dude, you mine sh*t in an ASTEROID FIELD! Those things ain't made out of paper mache! Learn how to fly, dingus!"

Who says we'll do the same thing with it, though? :)