Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Corsair on June 15, 2002, 10:06:03 pm
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A few nights ago I was in New York City at the Isaac Asimov Memorial Panel Debate at the Natural History Museum. The five scientists there were debating the age-old question: Is there other life out there? And they all agreed more or less that there was other life out there, but most of it is just slime (one celled organisms). The scientist from SETI (forget what that stands for) is convinced that there is other INTELLIGENT life out there. Two others were sure that there is NO intelligent life out there anywhere at all. The other two were undecided to no intelligent life. Listening to them debate was very interesting because they were all so narrowminded and convinced that their field of science proved them right. So now I throw the question out to you guys. What do you think about life elsewhere in the universe?
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My opinion is, space is just too darn big for us to be the only intelligent lifeforms in the universe. I'd like to here the dialogue from that debate.
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I agree with Mr. Vega.
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it would be so AWESOME to have a real live shivan!!! :)
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Originally posted by Stealth
it would be so AWESOME to have a real live shivan!!! :)
Yes, I'm sure you'll be pleased when you get turned into vapor by a shivan beam weapon.
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I do think there a good possibility exists considering the size of the (known) universe because of the same thing Mr. Vega said; even if intelligent life comes up only once in 10²² galaxies or something, the chances would be quite high. We need an accurate estimate for the size of the universe before really taking a good guess at this question though.
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I look at it this way....im not a mathematically inclined person...but I do know from what I've read from all over that its a mathematical impossibility for there not to be other life on other planets. There is a fairly narrow window for life to form according to our standards...but I don't think anyone has entirely ruled out that there may be other types of lifeforms and that the way things work on Earth may not be the only way.
But in terms of life as it works on Earth....there are three planets out of 9 in our solar system that are in the life bearing potential region. And its even more possible that there was life on Mars....and it could have happened on Venus as well...but the conditions were not quite right.
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Lots of reports are recently coming in about extrasolar star systems as well; only Jupiter-size gas giants can be detected at this range, but it is quite probable that rocky planets and moons exist there as well, increasing the number of candidate locations for life in the universe.
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A fantastic article from SciAm a few years ago :
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0009CDEA-33FC-1C74-9B81809EC588EF21&catID=2
Kind of an expanded view of the Fermi Paradox.
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yeah, go the fermi paradox.
i kinda think that even if there was intelligent life out there, we wouldn't be able to recognise it. i mean, we can't even define the word 'life' satisfactorily yet.
and who said slime couldn't be intelligent? (:p)
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Originally posted by CP5670
Lots of reports are recently coming in about extrasolar star systems as well; only Jupiter-size gas giants can be detected at this range, but it is quite probable that rocky planets and moons exist there as well, increasing the number of candidate locations for life in the universe.
yeah, in the Cancer constellation, they found a Jupiter like planet ( several times bigger tho ), and they already knew there was one planet much closer to the star ( don't remember its name ) They think because of the gap between these two planets, there's probably a third, much smaller one between them, about at the same AU than Earth is from Sun ( so 1 AU ). So they're already dreaming about aliens :p
So far, they've discovered 80 planets out of our solar system btw.
For the probablilities of little ETs... Well, as Vega said. Take your galaxy on its own, it's already containing billions of stars... heck if there's not at least 10 thousands other species in the milky way alone, there's something very wrong with Miss Nature :p
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What people don't seem to realise is that anything's possible until observable evidence is presented which narrows the possibilites. At the moment it is entirely possible that there are race, intelligent and otherwise, who have the power to destroy us on a whim. It is also entirely possible that 4 billion years is an extremely fast evolutionary period and simply no other planets have had time for life to start on them. There could be vast, planet-sized animals prowling space, decimating worlds. Or it could be that the most complex form that will ever exist not as a result of Earth is some tiny amoeba with no evolutionary potential. We could be the largest intelligent life in the universe and all the other FTL-capable races are too afraid to contact us lest we grab their tiny ships and crush them. I think I'll wait until we've either explored all the universe and found nothing, or someone hands me an aliens head on a spike before I commit to any one side of the argument.
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If each galaxy contained only one sentient species, there would be millions of sentient species in the universe. IMO its stupid to say we are alone, we may not even be alone in our own solar system(moons of Jupiter are very interesting).
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Yeah, with all the cracky ice and stuff.
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I think Titan has some possibility for a life-sustaining environment with its hydrocarbon-rich atmosphere; it's fairly cold there, but the life would probably adapt to those conditions.
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there is a formula to work out the number of civilistions in the universe. But i cant remember the name of it. It also relys on may factor that are unkown such as the mean num of planets in a solar system and the mean num of civlisation on a planet. I think it could be the reed formula or sumin. Anyhow, it doesn't help much cos none of the variables are know.
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[sarcasm]we should look for intelligent life on earth first before we look elsewhere.[/sarcasm]
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An interesting possibility arises from this tidal flexing of Europa. Heat generated by the expansion and contraction may be enough to melt part of the crust underneath the surface, creating lakes or oceans below. The possibility of liquid water just below Europa's surface naturally leads to the question of whether life could have evolved there. Scientists have discovered marine life on Earth that thrives in the deep ocean near hydrothermal vents. This discovery provides us with a model for how similar organisms might survive on Europa. However, liquid water is just one of life's key ingredients. Many other factors, including organic material and a continuous energy source, must be present. Even if there is no ocean currently on Europa, one may have existed in the past, perhaps leaving fossilized remains to be found by a future mission.
Taken from http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/moons/europa.html
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*ponders*
Intelligent life? I hope so. :nod:
...and he looked at the stars and said "How can we be alone in this universe for who would give such a treasure to so few?"
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I find the thought of being the only intelligent life in the universe disturbing....
There has to be something out there somewhere... hell, they may already know about us....
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Originally posted by Thorn
I find the thought of being the only intelligent life in the universe disturbing....
There has to be something out there somewhere... hell, they may already know about us....
ok, I'll tell you the truth: they're already among us, if you don't know about them, it's because of a worldwide spred conspiracy. In fact, i'm one of them. I intend to slowly conquer HLP, and once this is done, I know Earth will fall soo to our might. Time's running short, humans, soon you'll know what "dominent species" really mean!!!
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Originally posted by venom2506
ok, I'll tell you the truth: they're already among us, if you don't know about them, it's because of a worldwide spred conspiracy. In fact, i'm one of them. I intend to slowly conquer HLP, and once this is done, I know Earth will fall soo to our might. Time's running short, humans, soon you'll know what "dominent species" really mean!!!
Thats pure, unadulterated spam, cover your eyes kids!
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yeah!
well, it happens, sometimes, even to me, you see :p
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There are over 40 jupiter sized planets record, but only one has been actually seen when eclipsed its parent star. There is bound to be some kind of life out there. Intelligent life might be out there as well. I think it probably is abundant, but even if there was several other species out there that have they might be to the point of the Bonze Age or they might have an empire as mighty as the Roman Empire. However, without radiowaves or starships they can't contact us, nor can we conact them. I kinda like to think of us sorta like the "First Ones." :)
Oh and Titan or Triton, one or the other is capable of supporting human life except it keeps a temperature of -200 F. :nod:
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I remember hearing this somewhere: We know there are millions of galaxies. And in each of those millions of galaxies, there are trillions of stars. And oribiting those trillions of stars, there is almost definitely Terra-like planets. And of those planets, many probably support life, and some may even have intelligent life. At least that's what the Law of Probability says...
EDIT: We know of over 80 planets. Just found an article about a system 55 LY away that could possibly have an earth-like planet: http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=8645
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I remember hearing this somewhere: We know there are millions of galaxies. And in each of those millions of galaxies, there are trillions of stars. And oribiting those trillions of stars, there is almost definitely Terra-like planets. And of those planets, many probably support life, and some may even have intelligent life. At least that's what the Law of Probability says...
EDIT: We know of over 80 planets. Just found an article about a system 55 LY away that could possibly have an earth-like planet: http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=8645
I haven't been keeping up with it as much as I used to. Very interesting.
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Interesting question, simple answer.
Now, identifying an alien life form might become the true problem...
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But is there any reason why any other lifeform would be so radically different from us?
For all of the diversity on this planet....there's alot thats the same. As a species we like to pick on differences but I can stand anywhere in the world....anywhere...except maybe the extreme polar regions (for most of the example) and find that things are pretty much the same. Bugs, plants, animals, the sky, the clouds...everything is the same....its all different...things are a bit different....but not in any fundamental way. I've also found that everything seems to mirror everything else. Atoms, solar systems, galaxy's...can everything be really that different?
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well that's becase everything evolved from the same thing
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Originally posted by IceFire
But is there any reason why any other lifeform would be so radically different from us?
For all of the diversity on this planet....there's alot thats the same. As a species we like to pick on differences but I can stand anywhere in the world....anywhere...except maybe the extreme polar regions (for most of the example) and find that things are pretty much the same. Bugs, plants, animals, the sky, the clouds...everything is the same....its all different...things are a bit different....but not in any fundamental way. I've also found that everything seems to mirror everything else. Atoms, solar systems, galaxy's...can everything be really that different?
Yes... It can. If a species has evolved under water for example. It might not even be able to survive outside of the water. (Untill they are smart enough to research techs :rolleyes: Research fishies!)
And we always compare the life on earth with the life we think is out there. But it might be far from the truth. For when 1 condition is different so will be the other conditions...:D
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Originally posted by IceFire
For all of the diversity on this planet....there's alot thats the same. As a species we like to pick on differences but I can stand anywhere in the world....anywhere...except maybe the extreme polar regions (for most of the example) and find that things are pretty much the same. Bugs, plants, animals, the sky, the clouds...everything is the same....its all different...things are a bit different....but not in any fundamental way. I've also found that everything seems to mirror everything else. Atoms, solar systems, galaxy's...can everything be really that different?
Yes, but all those similar things spread across the earth by flight, plate movements etc. What about the possibilities for silicon-based life or something weird like that?
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I did some research on that for NW - silicon life wouldn'y get beyond the bacterial as Silicon can't form the bezine ring structure, amongst other things.
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Well, we need to know more about what the exact processes that constitute life to make a good guess on that part. Heck, maybe there can be a gaseous hydrogen-based life. :D Also, there can certainly be hydrocarbon-based life that still does not resemble contemporary life on Earth in any way; even a Shivan looks somewhat organic. :D
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Originally posted by PhReAk
[sarcasm]we should look for intelligent life on earth first before we look elsewhere.[/sarcasm]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: there is absolute proof that intelligent life exists "out there". What is that proof? The fact that they have not made contact with us is proof enough of their intelligence. :D
Seriously, I'm not sure what to think. I think my "default" setting would be to believe that there is not any life out there, but that's by nomeans a solid opinion on my part. :D
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Well, many of the organisms on Earth still suprise us by their form, so no guarantees on what they look like or how they function.
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Originally posted by CP5670
Also, there can certainly be hydrocarbon-based life that still does not resemble contemporary life on Earth in any way; even a Shivan looks somewhat organic. :D
Anything made by a human, like a Shivan is probably tainted by our concept of life and what intellgent life looks like. I mean, the Shivans have visible arms, legs, head, eyes, er...plasma cannon...
:p
Anyway, my point is they're not that weird. Gas life or living rocks or something is probably out there, along with more stuff like us.
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gaz life... imagine your gaz creature, he decides to make first contact with terrans. His gigantic ship lans near a big city, the gates open slowly... Every human on the planet hold his breath... The door is open, and a fantastic rainbow coloured creature appears. The shape is undetermined, and seems to have no thick substance... it slowly goes down the ramp to meet the... hmm, it died :p wind has just sent him visit all the places of our planet, at the same time :lol:
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:lol:
But I imagine a gas creature would live in space. Or have some kind of method to stop itself from falling apart. :D
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I read an article on verossimilic alien lifeforms on a scientific magazine a few years ago, they were speculating on what organic, carbon-based lifeforms would look like when evolved on planets with different conditions than Earth - high gee, low gee, different atmosphere, less light, etc. Some pretty cool concepts there, I'll see if I can find an online version of it.