Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: An4ximandros on September 21, 2012, 06:35:23 pm
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I recently had a nostalgia attack on Metal Gear and decided to play the second one, being old enough to understand the things going on in this game now... it blew my mind, specially the AI conversation at the end of the game: Part One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_W4EV-ikJY) Part Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS9sWYop2UE)
After surfing the net as my curiosity was peaked, I realized why the ending had always stuck with me, the more I grew up, the more I noticed the truth('s?) behind it, there are hundreds of deconstructions of Metal Gear Solid 2, specially after the whole Triple Act Scandal (ACTA, SOPA, PIPA.)
My whole point is this, what do you think about the arguments the AIs make? Are they right?
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This game literally owns. It's way smarter than it has any right to be.
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MGS2 confused me as a young teenager and I played it many times trying to make sense of it. It gets alarmingly meta.
After the oil fence sniping segment, you can have an optional codec convo with Rose or something. Raiden talks about how dead inside he is, about how he can blow away all these guys and "watch them die in agony" and yet he feels nothing. And I thought to myself "man, I guess that would be pretty rough in real life, but I don't have any reason to feel bad because it's just a ga-........"
:eek:
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I'm not sure I really want to deconstruct the big deconstruction, if only to avoid the obvious meme.
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Well to me the whole Patriots organization as well as the whole Philosopher's group that it originated from is very similar to the whole idea of the Illuminati shadow group controlling governments and corporations, in the way it's portrayed. It clicked really well for myself. Also the way MGS2 just obliterates the 4th wall in such a smart manner, and starts talking to YOU sitting there behind the TV, it certainly blew me away when i played it many years ago.
Then there's that nagging feeling a MGS1 player might have felt when going through the whole Big Shell. "All of this sure is like Shadow Moses.." which it turned out to be precisely with the S3 plan.
I'd say Hideo Kojima and his team are among the most talented and to me personally most respected game and story developers around, and as such certainly look forward to Ground Zeroes.
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Ok I really enjoyed that conversation. Thanks for that!
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MGS2 confused me as a young teenager and I played it many times trying to make sense of it. It gets alarmingly meta.
(...)Raiden talks about how dead inside he is, about how he can blow away all these guys and "watch them die in agony" and yet he feels nothing. (...)
You mean this conversation? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4IncLsiNuQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=412s)
Some people took the time to record the Codec calls for our convenience, my thanks go out to them.
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Yes, that's it exactly.
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I never got very far into the first MGS, and I've always kind of snickered at the surface-level naming conventions and trappings and such of its story (which, granted, aren't really a function of Kojima alone, but Japanese pop culture overall), but I guess I should have figured there was much more substance to the series given how much it's talked about. Maybe someday I'll be able to force myself through more of MGS and get a better grasp on it.
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I never got very far into the first MGS, and I've always kind of snickered at the surface-level naming conventions and trappings and such of its story (which, granted, aren't really a function of Kojima alone, but Japanese pop culture overall), but I guess I should have figured there was much more substance to the series given how much it's talked about. Maybe someday I'll be able to force myself through more of MGS and get a better grasp on it.
Part of the joy of Metal Gear Solid is the enormous quantities of :what the christ: you will encounter. You'll get groped by the president and call your psychologist mid-battle to help deal with your nerves and some psychic asshole will read the saved games on your console and whenever the game reaches a point of high drama it's all LIQUIIIIIIIIIIIIIID!!!! BROTHAAAAAAAAAARRRR!!!! and Snake's all 'gotta repeat everything as a question. gotta do it'
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Gotta repeat everything as a question?! Colonel, what the hell is going on here??
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Nanomachines
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Since I only played MGS2 and had zero idea what was going on, is there some overarching plot to the MGS series besides "The Patriots are trying to take over the world with nanomachines"?
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Yeah, all the fantastical elements in the MGS series always seemed to be there to enhance the story, not for autopsy by fans, Vamp for example, was supposed to be able to do ridiculous things ("He's running on water") in order to make you wonder what the hell was going on, not for you to explain why he was able to do it.
The La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo was supposed to be an "avatar" for the developers, since it's them who dictate the course of the fiction you are provided in the game, and the S3 plan Kernel was the game itself, which you experienced through Raiden, your avatar (who mentions doing a simulation of the Tanker incident to S- Pliskin only if you do the Tanker-Plant selection in the game), Then there's the conversation at the end of MGS1 that says that Foxdie should kill off the last Shadow Moses survivors soon... :nervous:
And the casting theater, MGS2 exclusive, which lets you swap character models in some cutscenes, likely implying that you could play the game as anyone selectable there and get the same experience.
Then MGS4 came around and ruined everything since the fans didn't really think like Kojima wanted them to (and those death threats sure did put pressure on him.)
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:confused:
So, is there some grand, deep theme to the entirety of the series? I only have a PC so you'll have to actually tell me the plot elements since I can't play the games.
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I don't really think you can explain anything as bat**** as MGS in a few sentences.
Check out this analysis written by a literal crazy person (http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm) for some insight into MGS2
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I'll try to keep this short:
-Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake carried a message about War being a terrible, and with OILIX, You essentially have infinite Oil to wage war with.
-Metal Gear Solid was, essentially, a 3D remake Of MG2: SS, carrying a stronger anti-war message, and how genes should not dictate your destiny.
-Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty carries a strong Anti-Meme message, that you should always question everything and not accept a truth because it's convenient, as there is no "absolute" truth.
-Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater was about adapting to the times, as Kojima had to do when the media bombed MGS2 for trying to be "too smart"
-Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of The Patriots is what happens when you ignore every single message Kojima was trying tell you and simply ask for more of the same generic **** we play nowadays (more combat less story plz.)
Edit: MGS-2 was meant to be the ending of the Metal Gear Saga as well. Questions left unanswered on purpose in order to make you think.
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I watched MGS 3 gameplay as Valathil was streaming it.
All I can say is "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURY!"
wut
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I read somewhere that the Cobras were representations of the emotions Kojima had to go through while making MGS-3, i guess that could explain why they feel out of place in some ways.
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In order to get a proper in-depth analysis of the series, you'll need the one tool that can cut through all the crazy that encases the story. You need....Scissors 69
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In order to get a proper in-depth analysis of the series, you'll need the one tool that can cut through all the crazy that encases the story. You need...Scissors! 61!
"You wouldn't be trying to give yourself a bogus post count using some ingenious trick would you? That's just about as low as anyone could possibly stoop! I can't believe you sometimes."
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I read somewhere that the Cobras were representations of the emotions Kojima had to go through while making MGS-3, i guess that could explain why they feel out of place in some ways.
They also line up pretty well with the Five Stages of Grief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model). :nod:
Oh, and MGS4 was a good look at the dangers of the military-industrial complex and the psychological effects of war. Yeah, way too much stuff was handwaved with nanomachines, but that wasn't the point. The plot is just a vehicle for the larger themes, and really it's kind of a wonder they manage to make the games' plots line up as well as they do at all.