Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Gunteen6 on September 21, 2012, 09:04:41 pm
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So uh, howdy.
A friend of mine is working with a modding group for Freelancer and they, being incredibly impressed at the quality of work put into the models and assets used in Blue Planet, have asked that I ask if they can have permission to use those assets in their mod. Said friend is drafting a document to make something like this official as they have learned not to trust word of mouth agreements and contracts. I can post that here when it gets drafted but I wanted to go ahead and get a feel for the general opinion for the situation.
http://tekagis.de/ is the link for the mod in question.
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contracts?
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The team wants a formal contract to be used, preferably in writing or something. It seems a tad extreme, but they don't want to take any chances.
Basically they want permission to use the assets used in Blue Planet in their mod, but they want it in writing.
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do you freelancers model your own stuff? :)
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You should probably be aware most of the models were not made by the BP team, though some were modified by them.
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I am aware that most of the models used did not originate with BP.
And there was a point in time where yes, a lot of Freelancer models were hand-made. But advancements in modding kits and such allowed better ports to be done.
I think the note should be added that what they want to use isn't just the models themselves, they want to use the models, textures, names, lore, weapons, whole shebang. They want the UEF Karuna, not the model it originated from. Adding UEF Hardware is their goal here as that is primarily what they were impressed by.
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Whoa, whoa whoa, let me get this straight... they want a Blue Planet Freelancer mod?
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That sounds pretty cool :) Is it set in that particular universe or is it like a "clash of universes" sort of thing with different technologies?
We're happy with others using mod assets so there's no issue there. I disagree that anything formal needs to be written: you're certainly not going to get into trouble from us for using them. Only trouble you'll run into (if you do at all) will be from outside the team, and if that happens having the formal contract isn't going to solve anything.
There's been Blue Planet ports for other engines like Homeworld 2 (http://www.moddb.com/mods/homeworld-blue-planet) and Sins of a Solar Empire (http://www.moddb.com/mods/freespace-blueplanet-at-war) which I'm personally looking forward to.
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you should sign, and add bosch beer to the agreement. :p
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Yes, that's the other disadvantage of having a formal contract with us.
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along comes Axem...
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Yes, this will be a "clash of the universes" type of thing. its still way early in development and I probably can't show deets without permission from the devs. From what I have heard, the UEF tech will likely be Faction Only tech... and I do believe that I will end up being in that faction. but what that means is in systems owned by this faction, UEF Fighters and Frigates will be patrolling around and such. Don't think that they are going to use the stations... but its to early to tell. So far it looks pretty rad.
Updated my friend on the happenings, he's now interested in getting in contact with the original modellers for the assets... He also wants me to screenscrape the thread here for record keeping. It is nice to hear that so far the BP team is greenlighting the use of these assets though. :yes:
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The community here has always been extremely open about the use of released models and stuff anywhere you want (aside from a very few mods, TBP I'm looking at you). It's usually more than enough to just credit the authors involved, although asking for permission is always nicer and more polite.
Make sure to browse the wiki's User-made ship list (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/User-made_Ships) for other stuff that might interest you, including the links to mod-specific ship lists on the top. Many of the ships featured here are old, but there are a few gems, and all of them are free to use and should have a download link available (if not, please let us know).
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The models were already released for public use - otherwise BP wouldn't be using them either. What you should do for the models is open up the BP credits.tbl, or look up the wiki entries for the ships, and credit the original modelers and texturers. (Many of these ships have now been revamped by Esarai or Aesaar, who deserve credit too - I believe that applies on the Karuna, Narayana, Kent, Uriel, upgraded Diomedes and maybe a few others?)
For the lore and writing, please credit 'the Blue Planet team'; just a little note such as 'based on the Blue Planet mod for FreeSpace 2, blueplanet.hard-light.net' would be awesome.
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To be honest, I can't exactly blame them for wanting something in writing. The older members on here will remember the rather heartbreaking disaster that was DiamondGeezer's Space : Above and Beyond port.
From the sound of it, they don't want a contract, they just want a Gentleman's Agreement that people from the Blue Planet team aren't going to turn up on their forum a year from now screaming "You stole our mod!" Something that they can simply link to and say "Here's the proof we didn't. Take it up with this Darius guy if you believe we did."
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Some guy named 'Liam' working on a Sins mod called 'BluePlanet at War' has a ModDB presence pretty much the size of ours, and while he acknowledges his source material when asked (most of his website is just FreeSpace wiki and ingame tech entries copied wholesale), I don't think he even links to the BP page. If we were going to get snippy at anyone it'd probably be him.
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Oh I'm not saying you're going to get snippy. Just that I fully understand the attitude of someone who wants something in writing. No one wants a repeat of the IPA nonsense again, but without something in writing, they are risking it.
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Yeah, definitely.
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No one wants a repeat of the IPA nonsense again, but without something in writing, they are risking it.
And to me, by being all paranoid about it, you're basically cockteasing me into doing it. But that's just me.
(Read, the more afraid of something you are, the more it makes me want to make it a reality for you. BECAUSE I GET OFF ON PEOPLE SUFFERING.)
You know, all I ask for is for people to have a modicum of trust in me if they want me to do something for them.
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Many communities are much more serious about asking permissions to convert/modify/port anyone's assets around. HLP is actually one of the most relaxed modding communities I've seen.
I think they're justified in being cautious about it, when it's doubt, it's always good to ask for permission (and when borowing physical objects, it's good to ask even if you're not in doubt).
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Jesus christ Droid, go easy on them. Permissions can be a very big deal in some communities (one of the most popular parts packs for Kerbal Space Program had to vanish for a few months because they didn't have explicit permissions from all the original creators and the licensing rules were made more stringent); it's perfectly reasonable for them to want something they can rely on. Way to make a first impression.
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I think he was only half serious. IDK though.
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I'm playing devil's advocate here pretty much, but I'm being serious.
If you want to use my stuff, so you are the one that is going to be signing my contract and agreeing to my terms and conditions, not the other way around. That's the way it should work, and expecting anything else is ridiculous. If I want to reserve the right to retract anything, I should be able to (so as long as it's stated). Of course, I'm not saying that I should be able to randomly change my mind and go bat**** calling people thieves for using my stuff because I suddenly decide I want to, but the people demanding documents to protect their things it should be the authors not the people asking them.
I actually hold that "give credit, don't claim it as your own, don't try and sell/make money off of it (without asking for permission), and you're golden" rule should be the default unwritten contract, and you don't need a signed version of that.
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The simple fact is that you might hold that all assets should be under an unwritten contract but not everyone does. The debacle with TBP, DiamondGeezer's S:AAB mod and the split over BtRL assets are examples of it happening 3 times in this community alone.
Besides, if you're arguing that it should be the authors job to write a contract, why haven't you? If you want, just simply state that your stuff is released under a Creative Commons licence and be done with it. It would literally take 2 minutes on this website (http://creativecommons.org/choose/) to pick a licence that would make their need to ask for a contract unnecessary. Hell, that licence would probably even hold up in court if you're talking about IP that is 100% yours. It would probably take you longer to tell me why you think I'm wrong. :p
As for why they're the ones writing the contract, maybe they're just trying to save you some work. If they present you with something, no one is saying you must agree to it. No one is saying you can't make revisions to it. But they are making sure that everything they are concerned about is included and saving you the hassle of being asked several times to address their issues. Even if you rewrote the entire thing, it's a better starting point than a blank page. If someone came up to me and told me that they wanted me to write out a contract so they could use my stuff they'd get a two word contract with one of the words being "off" :p
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Any and all Assets produced by BP team members are free to use by other mods and games, as long as attribution is given (Functionally equivalent to a CC-BY-NC license).
Everything else, as listed in the in-game credits, is either used with permission from the original authors, or used under the rules and regulations covering fan work.
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Besides, if you're arguing that it should be the authors job to write a contract, why haven't you? If you want, just simply state that your stuff is released under a Creative Commons licence and be done with it. It would literally take 2 minutes on this website (http://creativecommons.org/choose/) to pick a licence that would make their need to ask for a contract unnecessary. Hell, that licence would probably even hold up in court if you're talking about IP that is 100% yours. It would probably take you longer to tell me why you think I'm wrong. :p
That's cool. I'll get right to it.
You should also recommend that to other authors, so that
The debacle with TBP, DiamondGeezer's S:AAB mod and the split over BtRL assets are examples of it happening 3 times in this community alone.
doesn't happen again. Ever.
Maybe putting up a default "by releasing things on this site, you are agreeing to release under CC-BY-NC unless otherwise stated." (and if you can't release it under that it's your job as an author to make sure you have the required terms stated) or something along those lines could prevent any further instances of that ever happening again as well, (put it into terms and conditions for the forum or something).
Might be a bit overkill, but hey, there's no kill like overkill.
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Speaking as someone who has contributed a few small assets to BP, I'm glad that people are asking permission in this case, because this project involves conversion of assets to another game. Anyone who's read one of the readmes I use with my mods will know that I'm not fussy about permissions, but I've always been that way because I've always kind of assumed that they would remain within FSO, and therefore within the broader FS community. Moving to a different game - well, I honestly can't see it being much of a problem (unless someone's planing a conversion to battlecruiser millennium :p ), but I do think that that is a threshold of sorts, where explicit permission should probably be sought, for politeness' sake if nothing else.One if the main reasons is that, for a certain percentage of people, modding is a stepping stone into the game development industry. For those who want to go down that path, keeping track of where your assets are being used is potentially very useful and very important for future employment purposes. This doesn't apply to me, but I wouldn't want to assume that about everyone who's assets I port to another game. So bravo to this team for doing what I think is very much the right thing. :nod:
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General consensus I'm seeing here is... "thank you for asking, you have the green light"
am i wrong in this?
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General consensus I'm seeing here is... "thank you for asking, you have the green light"
am i wrong in this?
Any and all Assets produced by BP team members are free to use by other mods and games, as long as attribution is given (Functionally equivalent to a CC-BY-NC license).
Everything else, as listed in the in-game credits, is either used with permission from the original authors, or used under the rules and regulations covering fan work.
I'd say you're spot on.