Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Levyathan on June 16, 2002, 08:45:19 pm
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If anyone around here has played or heard about System Shock 2 (one of the best games ever, along with the first one), then this post will have a purpose. And I hope it has a purpose.
Anyway, I just want to share something I found a couple of days ago, a series of very good stories related to Shock and Freespace (at the same time, isn't that just marvelous? ;) ). Hopefully someone will enjoy reading it!
So here's the thing:
The Divine Seed Chronicles (http://shodan.dslegacy.net/divineseeds.php)
Just get to the chronicle selection screen and select the GTCv Monolith (http://shodan.dslegacy.net/divineseeds.php?seed=1002) one... Although I strongly suggest to read the One Story Ends (http://shodan.dslegacy.net/divineseeds.php?seed=-) fiction first.
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If there was some way we could get a Shivan into the SS2 engine, that'd be perfect.
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Actually, that might...
*looks at Styxx, who looks back menacingly*
...That's a crazy idea I tell ya! Crazy!
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I've been putting thought on that for a long time... in fact, I think that there's no better engine for a FPS version of Freespace than the SS2 engine. Even thought it's far from being the most advanced, it has the best mood for it (I'm thinking hallfight here)... :)
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Yeah, it's got the spaceship part down, and all the menus are fairly suited for a GTVA marine
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Originally posted by Styxx
I've been putting thought on that for a long time... in fact, I think that there's no better engine for a FPS version of Freespace than the SS2 engine. Even thought it's far from being the most advanced, it has the best mood for it (I'm thinking hallfight here)... :)
The only problem is that the engine is awfully weak at anything more complex than your most orthographic geometry. The Dark Engine was stretched, twisted and pulled to its limits for System Shock 2.
If I was going to try to build a Freespace FPS, I'd be doing it on the modified Unreal engine used in Deus Ex. It supported most of the same things the Dark Engine did, plus a bunch of others Dark couldn't do.
If I was going to do it on a modern engine, I would again go with a Warren Specter's choice: the modified engine used in Deus Ex 2. Why? Becase Specter and his team believe in making the software fit the story, not the other way around. There will be proper leaning, sneaking, sound trapping, shadow trapping, dynamic lighting, etc. In short, you'll be able to put together the sort of atmosphere you need for a squad of GTA marines skulking their way through a captured shivan ship. No other design team, in my opinion, can make an engine that can make that sort of atmosphere. Its what they're good at.
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Would it be able to handle low gravity (those suction boots would be a nice item) and bouncing off the walls, hitting you with claws Shivans?
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Originally posted by Alikchi
Would it be able to handle low gravity (those suction boots would be a nice item) and bouncing off the walls, hitting you with claws Shivans?
Of course: Quake 2 (maybe even 1) had low gravity maps. Pretty much every 3d engine since then has used some implementation of a gravitational constant that can be altered on a per map basis.
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Yes, I figured that (don't know why I asked, even :rolleyes:) but back to the Shivans: You'd need a pretty, no, very good animation system for them, I think. I guess UT 2003 could do that.
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I'm willing to bet you could get a reasonable Shivan in the modified Quake3 engine used in Jedi Outcast. Realistically, you're only adding one extra limb and changing the IK rig only a little. You don't relaly need to do much with the rear leg except do collision detection on the foot and make sure it doesn't clip too much (not that we really do a lot of clipping checking in FPSs these days Stormtroopers don't seem to mind falling through walls when they die :D). Whist this won't produce a really, truly 'realistic' loping cycle for a running shivan, its close enough for government work. ;)
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:D
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Anything that supports skeletal/IK/Bones would be easy, you just build an IK rig for a spider and tweak it a little, simple :)
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Well... if you make that, I'll play it :D If you teach me how to install it into SS2 :)
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Well, I only played a bit of Deus Ex - Shock 2 was the one with the best mood that I knew of. If there's anything that can do what the Shock 2 engine can do, but better, that'd be the way to go.
Now, anyone has a good model of a Shivan lying around? :D
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Originally posted by Styxx
Well, I only played a bit of Deus Ex
Yeah, and Shock 2 you played to the end several times... :rolleyes:
:D
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Deus Ex I played to death
Excellent game, that wuz ;)
SShock2....i found it didnt have the same "dark" feeling to it as SShock1 did, but it was still brilliant.
Pity I can't get the friggen thing to run under windows2000.....bloody crap installer.
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Originally posted by Levyathan
Yeah, and Shock 2 you played to the end several times... :rolleyes: :D
Well, I played SS2 up to deck 4, while I only played the first level on Deus Ex... That still means I played a lot more Shock2 than DX. :D
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I played through both SS2 and Deus Ex; both are among my all-time favorites. I liked DX a bit better with its free-form gameplay and interactivity but SS2 also comes quite close. A game based on those concepts and set in the Freespace universe would be truly awesome; once Unreal 2 is released, I'm going to try to learn map and mod making for that, and maybe make something out of that. ;)
Deus Ex I played to death
Same here; I have played through the entire game 16 times now (realistic difficulty) and I discover new things every time, so I still do not tire of it. :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
Same here; I have played through the entire game 16 times now (realistic difficulty) and I discover new things every time, so I still do not tire of it. :D
My God! :eek: :jaw: You have too much time on your hands. :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
Same here; I have played through the entire game 16 times now (realistic difficulty) and I discover new things every time, so I still do not tire of it. :D
I just learned that you can use proximity charges in DX to build step ladders to climb to places you normally can't. *heh*
That game has way too many secrets.
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I only learned that Paul Denton could be actually saved on the seventh or eighth time I played through the game. Then for a long time I was not able to find the thing Tracer Tong was talking about when he said the thing about the dead Versalife guy in the canal road collapse, but I finally reached the place on the 11th try. Then on the 14th try I found out that Morgan Everett had some extra stuff in his house- namely, Lucius Debeers and Morpheus. I subsequently also found out that it was possible to talk to Everett about the fluke mechanic and get rid of him, thereby saving Jock. I also find some secret room or hidden item on just about every try; lots of hidden stuff all over the place in this game. :D
You have too much time on your hands. :D
You got that right; when I first got this game, I was playing nonstop for 11 hours straight. :D (and I only stopped because I was getting sleepy)
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Eh, I'd have played once and get a walkthrough to find out all the stuff I had missed on the second way through - and then get into a different game... :p
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Originally posted by CP5670
I subsequently also found out that it was possible to talk to Everett about the fluke mechanic and get rid of him, thereby saving Jock.
Eh, I just talk to everyone I see - and when he started sounding suspicious, I shot him. First playthrough. Quite cool when I realized I'd saved the chopper :)
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I completed the game 5 times or so all the way through and Paul survived, but now he keeps dieing :(.
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Eh, I just talk to everyone I see - and when he started sounding suspicious, I shot him. First playthrough. Quite cool when I realized I'd saved the chopper
Yeah, he did sound somewhat strange the first time I played the game, but I gave no thought to it until much later when Everett told me what happened. Then I tried various things with him; killing him immediately, talking to him and killing him, throwing the other mechanic's body on him, talking to him and then to Jock, talking to him, then Everett and then killing him, and so on. :D
I completed the game 5 times or so all the way through and Paul survived, but now he keeps dieing :(.
The funny thing there is that one of you must die in the firefight in the hotel; if you survive, he dies, and if he survives, you die. (or at least you become unconscious) This was something I experimented around with quite a bit; the first time I played through, I left the hotel immediately, and so Paul died. Later, I tried a number of different things, including killing all the bad guys in the hotel and on the streets, but he still died, so I concluded that you must die to allow him to live. :p (can't see how he would die anyway; he is invulnerable, runs extremely fast and has a ton of ammo :D) Although they must be putting you back together or something, since you are still alive later, but heavily damaged.
One a side note, has anyone tried releasing the two greasels in the MJ12 Pacific Rim lab in Hong Kong? Usually they end up doing some wacky things in there with the guards, but the real fun part comes when you release the nearby bum. It is pretty rare, but the bum sometimes is able to run all the way to where the soldiers' breakroom is, with the special agents following him. If this occurs, the normal MJ12 soldiers and the special agents actually start fighting each other. (with the scientists running around in the middle) I have a saved game there; it is really funny to watch that. :D :D
The most recent thing I discovered was that one of the police officers in Paris has a reload mod on him, so I just get him angry and kill him to get that. (those mods are rare)
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It's easy to keep Paul AND yourself alive.
When you go to his apartment plant a couple of gas grenades at the closer end of the coridoor to the rest of the hotel.
At the far end, plant a couple of LAMs.
That way after you dont wha tyou have to do with the satdishes and return and the MiBs break the door down, most of them get blasted as they walk in.
Next you need to rush out and lob a couple of gas grenades into the hotel foyer and then just start headshotting all the UNATCO troops.
Paul gets away, you get away and you both survive ;)
E-Z
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Yeah, I did try killing everyone in the hotel (as you said, it is pretty easy with those LAMs, and Paul is one heck of a fighter; you can go hide in the bedroom and he'll do all the work), but he still died sometime later. :( Maybe I should try that again just to make sure, though.
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Okay... uh... (has never played SS :nervous: )
Originally posted by mikhael
If I was going to do it on a modern engine, I would again go with a Warren Specter's choice: the modified engine used in Deus Ex 2. Why? Becase Specter and his team believe in making the software fit the story, not the other way around. There will be proper leaning, sneaking, sound trapping, shadow trapping, dynamic lighting, etc. In short, you'll be able to put together the sort of atmosphere you need for a squad of GTA marines skulking their way through a captured shivan ship. No other design team, in my opinion, can make an engine that can make that sort of atmosphere. Its what they're good at.
Right on. AvP needed an entirely new engine for what they wanted to include in it and they pulled it off perfectly. Actually, if AvP was a little more mod-friendly, we could use that. A Freespace FPS engine should have low- and zero-gravity environments that let you use suction boots on the walls, and Shivans scampering around like Aliens. Vision modes would be a plus (normal, infra-red, night vision) and the environment seems fine, with rain, sparks, glass, dynamic lighting etc.