Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: headdie on October 05, 2012, 05:56:04 pm
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Lets see how far I get with this one.
So far spent 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours on it and I think I have thrashed out the basic shape.
At the moment I am aiming at a Vasudan spin on the Diomedes as a multi role, fighter bearing corvette with the aim of it being able to take on multiple Shivan cruisers in different directions while on escort duty and be able to quickly shift from assault to defence and vise versa with little preparation time. So far the only concrete aspects I have in my head are that:
* it carries about a squadron of light/medium fighters
* conditions onboard are similar to RL nuclear fast attack subs
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/226/selket1.jpg)
edit
I have removed the p3d uploads of this model, if anyone is interested in looking at/working on this model then feel free to contact me and I will sort that out for you.
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I think that you should spend more time on the overall shape. As it is, it's very repetitive and uninteresting, not to mention it doesn't look vasudan.
Why don't you try drawing a rough concept first, before jumping to modelling? :)
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Raven's right, it could be more interesting, try using subdivision on p3d, it gives a more "organic" look like the Vasudans have, it might inspire you.
You could also look up insects or animals that more or less have the shape you seek for inspiration, your ship reminds me of a Trilobite (http://startswithabang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/trilobites.jpg), you could find inspiration on it's looks.
But please keep going, we have serious lack of "modern" Vasudan equipment.
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I don't think that insects will give the needed inspiration... its a vasudan vessel after all.
The idea of drawing a concept (no matter how crude it is), is the fact that you can explore relations between sweeping curves (the foundation of a vasudan vessel) very fast and easy. :)
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I like the general aesthetic style and shape, but I agree with Raven in that it needs more variety in the overall shape/structure.
I think for the kind of ship you're going for, it looks too thin--it's hard to imagine a ship like that holding all of the things you want it to, and such a thin ship makes it difficult to edit things around with regards to turrets and some subsystems (ex: how is that BGreen turret mounted on the outside of a hull piece barely 5 meters thick? - kind of questions).
My suggestion would be to expand the bottom-middle area, and put the fighterbay/entrance there (either in the front or back, with the entrance being cut into an angled section at one end; may be an interesting idea to have two entrances so it looks more efficient for operating craft that are coming or going at the same time). Essentially, the centerline 'body' would be taller, perhaps jutting out with a few large, shallow curves/bulbous sections (think Halo's Covenant ships) along its length.
It also could use some more curves--Vasudan design is all about curves, and this is rather lacking in that area. It's almost there, but a bit short of it.
The 'nose' section--might be a good idea to 'raise' the upper part of the nose, so to speak, so that you can place turrets there that are capable of shooting targets in front (as well as a decent degree above), and to give the ship a more 'full' and shapely aesthetic. The Hecate's 'massive bricks connected by comparatively small sections' aesthetic is difficult to pull off well (and the Hecate arguably doesn't).
Just some suggestions; I think you've got an interesting concept here so far, and I'd enjoy seeing what it looks like in the future.
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Ironically enough between computer issues and other things I have been working on a revised hull design for the ship and just finished uploading it to p3d, I think it has a much more vasudan vibe to it.
main
http://p3d.in/FMk9U
cut away version so you can see what the hanger is doing
http://p3d.in/pERah
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2185/selket2i.jpg)
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A bit too boxy now for a Zod ship, I have some very nice ideas about the shape but because I'm a crappy drawer sadly I can't really show you anything.
All I can say is that you probably curve the front "head" - the bit sticking up at the front, maybe like the Sobek. Adding some sharp curves to the "wings" at the front will probably help the forward profile and make her look aggressive.
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Looking better indeed. Still needs more of a vasudan feel, though.
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Looks cool for me :yes:. I want to see it with more details!
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It has a certain Sobek feeling...maybe you should make the fins and the stuff more...curvy?
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I was looking at the Sobek, Mentu and hatty retail models when coming up with this one, the basic shape of the back half of the Sobek looks right to me though I have gone for hatty style side engines for variety. The head of the sobek on the other hand to my mind just dosn't fit with the vasudan theme so for the front I am going for a mentu/hatty/me hybrid there.
At the moment the plan of action is:
* Remedy many of the hard angles in the wings of the head
* Curve the top faces of the upper engine section
* Crimp and round the neck
* Look at removing the flat section between the side and upper engines
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Your Hattie/Sobek/Mentu hybridized detail stuff you mentioned is actually a good way to summarize what look I was thinking about. That was the kind of thing I was trying to describe.
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had a thought on making the "head" more aggressive, a quick rough modeling is here http://p3d.in/3e0Ym
Personally I like the general feel for the new head though at a minimum I want to reprofile the crest and the main body section will need rescaling as to me it feels small compared to the head at the moment.
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Thats more like it :)
No, go and make the back of the ship like this :D
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Found a geo-hole while looking at yer ship.
Also, I'd like to say the new ship looks really nice, keep it up.
[attachment deleted by a basterd]
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could have sworn I fixed that :eek2:, anyhow thanks for pointing that little bleeder out.
also done some work reprofiling the rear half of the ship so it isn't so head heavy and here is a quick end of weekend update
http://p3d.in/OtxcK
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I really like it :yes:. I think the shape would stay as it is now, and it's time to add a lot of pretty details :)
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When it was first shown, I didn't like it. Now it's getting good. I think it's a bit too flat though. The top and bottom surface aren't interesting.
It looks infinitely better subdivided, but this new version has something weird going on with the wing tips. It's very noticeable when you show the wires.
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It looks good, but it's a wee bit too close to a Sobek for my liking. Maybe when you've added frills and all it'll hide the similarity in shape.
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Having a few moments of inspiration for detailing work. I am still working on it tonight but progress so far http://p3d.in/dyBfF
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Sweet...will the upper plate of the head stay or do you think about connecting it to the neck section?
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End of today's work http://p3d.in/4yLq4
Sweet...will the upper plate of the head stay or do you think about connecting it to the neck section?
My plan is to keep the basic idea as it is now, a bit like the crest on an animal's head.
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The head looks awesome! This is a bit of personal preference, but see if you prefer to have the body at the neck-body junction concave up instead of concave down, followed by a saddle point transitioning back to concave down.
R
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Your model is so awesome it has given me two Blue Screens of Death. :warp:
Still, before I crashed I saw awesome, Vasudans send you love for that! :headz:
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ok, spent a little more time on it this morning finishing the bulk work on the main hull.
http://p3d.in/6vUSS
http://p3d.in/FE3Q2
the second version also has bevel, subsurf and smoothing object modifiers applied to the main mesh to see how they work out for creating the final look.
Next moving onto the head and, figuring out where/how I am going to add finer detail.
The head looks awesome! This is a bit of personal preference, but see if you prefer to have the body at the neck-body junction concave up instead of concave down, followed by a saddle point transitioning back to concave down.
errrr not 100% what you are saying, my modeling knowledge is a little bit of basic how to use blender tutorials and what I have picked up in trial and error in the 2-3 years of hobbying since then, so I tend to think in terms of I want the model to do this so what happens if..... and wing it, far from the most efficient or even reliable way to do it, but occasionally I get there.
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It's looking very Vasudan. Good job! I still wished the shape was more curved like the Hatshepsut. I think what Rampage is saying is that the neck should be a little bit more like an "S-curve" (see Swan necks or for less extreme, think T-Rex). I believe that could be a start to making the whole model a bit more curvy.
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ahhh, I did consider that kind of curve but to give it a decent go I felt I would need to elongate the neck to the point where it would look fragile.
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Okay. It's great that you gave thought to it! Anyway, my suggestion was to curve the model like if you Google Imaged "garden slug" and took the first picture. (Keep in mind, I can't say that it'll look better. Your model right now is looking great!)
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Ahhh! It's back!
[attachment deleted by a basterd]
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Good wok so far! :yes:
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How wide is the hangar entrance?
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assuming 800 meters in length for the ship then the hanger opening is about 30 meter diameter
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That's quite small, I wonder how AI pilots will handle the curve in the tunnel.
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http://p3d.in/Ef2Bn
Head details and provisional beam turret placements
Armament wise I am looking to distribute this tabled either to use SVas or a custom warship beam that sits somewhere between the SVas and BVas but below VSlash in performance so in a FS2 era fleet the Sobek would retain it's role as a strike ship while this handles various escort roles.
That's quite small, I wonder how AI pilots will handle the curve in the tunnel.
Started thinking about that earlier, according to the POF files width wise you can fit 1 fighter down at a time as most are 15-25 meters wide so with carefully staggered way paths multiple fighters can be made to follow each other out. the curve is definitely a point of concern though and I am weighing up options to alleviate this
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Well, I'm building Tiigran capships to have slightly oversize hangar entrances, so a 20 meter wide fighter would get a 50+ meter wide entrance to a Frigate's hangar; carrier hangars will also be at least 2x wider than the biggest ships that will dock in them- giving some 30+ meters per side of space. They're also going to be quite simple to fly through, with no tight turns.
How did the Vasudans solve this issue with the Big Hat and the Typhon? Perhaps their entrances could be of inspiration here.
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I'm gonna be honest. I was gonna say that it looks too Sobek like, until I took a closer look, especially at the head. it almost looks like a headpiece for Egyptian Kings (specifically the middle of the head, looks like a crown piece). I actually like what you did mostly. The only thing I see is that the body looks a little flat for a Vasudan type craft. Most of em are fairly slender in design or at least more rounded body wise. Other than that, good job. You can do FAR more than I can. I actually wanna stretch my legs with craft design soon.
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Vasudan cruisers disagree about that not flat, slender look.
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Just to clarify what I mean: While I have also been advocating for the less flat look, I do so not because it's not Vasudan-like. I do so because it looks plain.
EDIT: And the Mentu gives itself depth and detail with its textures.
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small update, been trying to figure out the look of the turrets and I think I still have some way to go to get them looking right.
http://p3d.in/SKoex
armament wise it is currently looking at
5x Anti-Capital beams - 1x upper head, 1x lower head 2x forward base of upper engine rise, 1x lower hull just aft of middle
5x Anti-Fighter beams - 2x upper head, 1x centreline upper main hull, 1x underside at the neck/hull join, 1 just below middle engines
2x2 blobs - dorsal and ventral multi-parts
4x Flak emplacements - sides of main body
4x VLS type missiles - lower neck
on the discussion about the underside, here are a few silhouette/semi silhouette shots to show the shape of the lower hull
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6885/selket1.png)
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9751/selket4.png)
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9673/selket2.png)
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9607/selket3.png)
while it is not as varied as the Hatty there is some curvature and variation there.
for the hanger, the entrance is not really changed but I have moved the hanger upwards and slightly back to reduce the severity of the curve, placing it pretty much centre mass of the main hull, still weighing up rescaling the hanger opening.
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Briliant :yes:, but <100k polys for a heavy corvette? A little bit too much. ..
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very much so, currently the ship is using bevel and subsurf modifier scripts applied to the objects to achieve it's look and looking at it when I start to apply them permanently there will be a load of corrective and optimization work to be done so hopefully I can drop that number down to a sane level
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Looking at the hangar...
So you made a brick layer? ;7
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those are big bricks ;)
they are roughly representative of vasudan fighters and I was using them to gauge how feasible the hanger tunnel is and scale the hanger to 12 fighters
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Hm, so this thing packs a meaner punch then the Dio? Sweet ;)
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depends how you approach.
the upper side is pretty nasty for anyone wanting to get too close, the sides you mostly have the flak to worry about with only 1 of the head aaf's and the blobs able to cover reliably, the rear is atrocious for anti fighter with only 1 aaf and a cruiser might be able to find a blind spot there from all but 1 anticapital beam. underside is pretty much 2 aaf and 2 anti capital beams of note. also with only 2 blobs and marginally positioned flaks mean that once launched torpedoes should have a relatively easy time of finding their mark.
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It looks pretty cool. I especially like the front, it's got a interesting shape (though it might benefit from a bit more thickness or roundness).
I know you plan to optimize, but that's going to be a lot of work. Are you sure you couldn't get the same result just adding a few new edges or something? The shape isn't so organic that it needs a smoothing modifier, so a few cuts here and there would probably suffice. It would also give you an easier time with both modeling and UVing. Could we see what it looks like without your modifiers on it?
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I think it needs a few more blob-type turrets or its going to get wrecked by torpedo-based capships. :P
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Or let it launch rapid fire and forget missile, to intercept torpedos.
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It looks pretty cool. I especially like the front, it's got a interesting shape (though it might benefit from a bit more thickness or roundness).
I know you plan to optimize, but that's going to be a lot of work. Are you sure you couldn't get the same result just adding a few new edges or something? The shape isn't so organic that it needs a smoothing modifier, so a few cuts here and there would probably suffice. It would also give you an easier time with both modeling and UVing. Could we see what it looks like without your modifiers on it?
sure, here it is without the modifiers http://p3d.in/KWv6P/wireonsmooth
and if anyone is interested here is a cutaway version http://p3d.in/aSpiI
I think it needs a few more blob-type turrets or its going to get wrecked by torpedo-based capships. :P
additional anti-torpedo weaponry is certainly something to think about and is probably excessively weak atm, at the same time I am trying to give the ship a weakness which gives the player some meaningful direct attack and defence roles while this ship is in the area.
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I think it needs a few more blob-type turrets or its going to get wrecked by torpedo-based capships. :P
No such thing in the canon FS universe, so it's a reasonable omission.
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I've compared them side by side, and I really do think you could avoid your modifiers altogether. They're very, very similar. One just has 10x the polygons. In fact, I'd be willing to be you could knock a good chunk off your base model by judiciously deleting a few lines and adjusting your smooth groups.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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slow progress recently due to going back onto anti-depressants after being off them for 9 months so this last couple of weeks my motivation to do anything is all over the show.
Anyhow here is an update on progress http://p3d.in/SMkWv
using smoothing combined with a edge split modifier for most of it. retained use of subsurf for the multiparts
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I admit, I was initially pretty skeptical about this design. But it's growing on me. One suggestion might be to put some kind of destroyable subsystem underneath the frill - maybe just some random greeblage that can be assigned to weapons or whatever - give it some kind of purpose (i.e. additional armour against frontal attacks).
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thanks Black Wolf, I was thinking about either weapons or navigation.
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And from the settled dust the great water scorpion rises again (for now at least)
Had a bit of a motivational crash on this one but today I have tinkered with this a little more doing a bit of UV and ambient occlusion baking still have some work to go though, the beams, flaks and hanger need to be UVd with the main hull UV/AO needing to be redone as some gremlins have appeared in it. but anyway here is a look at the ship's pretty ass.
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2531/selket214rear.png)
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:yes:
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And a little bit more progress. AO baking done and the base colours applied.
Turrets are now finalised at 5 main beams, 5 anti-fighter beams, 6 blobs and 4 flak so 20 weapons emplacements
http://p3d.in/OTIg3
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/365/3/c/gtcv_selket_2_by_headdie-d5ptwof.png)
edit:
Better Render
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I think I love that ship.
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depends how you approach.
the upper side is pretty nasty for anyone wanting to get too close, the sides you mostly have the flak to worry about with only 1 of the head aaf's and the blobs able to cover reliably, the rear is atrocious for anti fighter with only 1 aaf and a cruiser might be able to find a blind spot there from all but 1 anticapital beam. underside is pretty much 2 aaf and 2 anti capital beams of note. also with only 2 blobs and marginally positioned flaks mean that once launched torpedoes should have a relatively easy time of finding their mark.
So how will this thing's weaponry compare with the Sobek?
Or is this becoming a Frigate slowly, similar to the Iceni, only with a hangar instead of ETAK?
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Selket
5 main beams (Each less powerful than VSlash and probably less than TSlash)
5 anti-fighter beams
6 blobs
4 flak
2 or 4 Missiles (I am still deciding how to divide them up)
22/24 Turrets
Sobek
2 VSlash
4 AAAf
8 Terran Turret
3 Terran Huge Turret
5 Standard Flak
22 Turrets
Deimos
4 Terran Slashing Beam
4 Anti-Fighter Beam
6 Terran Turret
4 Terran Huge Turret
6 Standard Flak
2 Piranha
26 Turrets
Iceni
3 Big Green Beam
9 Terran Turret
7 Terran Huge Turret
2 Standard Flak
2 MX-52
2 Piranha
25 Turrets
Hits wise I think 80k, I might table it for 85k as it is more of a "heavy" corvette but that is fairly meaningless as modders will table it to what they want.
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At first I though the design was a kinda bland, glad to see I was totally mistaken.
Kudos headdie :yes:
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Can't wait to see this beauty with textures :yes:, but... You should rethink main beams placements. Current is kinda unpractical.
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Do you have any suggestions?
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To be honest, nothing special at this moment. Ship don't have a place, where it would concentrate firepower of the most of the beams.
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Neither does the Deimos.
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It does. It can put two beams on a target above, on the left/right, or slightly above from behind. They just can't hit anything from below or directly behind unless the enemy ship is big enough or on a specific angle.
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I am trying to avoid concentrating the fire power too much in one direction as I am trying to make this more of an escort ship designed to engage multiple warships at the same time from more than one direction, either to turn the tables on a developed capship assault or prevent a multi warship assault from gaining momentum. given it's size and fire-power I would expect it to be mainly used as a destroyer escort or escort a high value ship/convoy. Another tactic could be to use the ships fighter complement to provide close escort to 2-3 convoys and deploy the Selket directly if things start going down hill on a BP jump 5 style basis. If this ship is to be deployed offensively then I would suggest the upper profile as the best to position hostile warships as it can then make use of 3 of it's 5 anti-cap beams.
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The hangar also fits with the idea of making this an escort ship and not a front line unit.
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Seems like it'd fill the same niche as the Diomedes, i.e. independent operations and flank attacks.
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Seems like it'd fill the same niche as the Diomedes, i.e. independent operations and flank attacks.
That was the inspiration behind this one.
As sad as it is, I keep stumbling on this one, texturing is just not progressing so seeing as there is community interest I am releasing the Dev files for the ship, please if you are interested feel free to work on this further.
my only release conditions are that it's use is not for financial gain, that I am credited in it's public use and that these terms apply to modified forms of these files.
the zip and 7z contain the same files which are
Ambient Occlusion bakes split across 2 files, both in xcf and pdf formats
model in .blend (2.49), 3ds and obj+mtl
7z 9mb (http://www.mediafire.com/?2l3m8tj7p5yx3z6)
zip 9mb (http://www.mediafire.com/?u8fn6hx43qhdx1x)
Hope it comes in handy :D