Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Fineus on June 18, 2002, 06:39:54 am
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Welcome to the Source Code Project forum, allow me to answer some questions so that people know just why it's no longer called by its old name.
Firstly, The Source Code Project is going to be the largest development of the source code for FS2 on the internet - a joint endeavor between HLP and FSW, it well enable coders to interact and to create a single package that really gets the best out of the code without there being hundreds of little alterations which may conflict. This project shall result in releases of garunteed working "patches" (for want of a better word).
Secondly, "why not create a separate forum for the SCP and keep the old one separate?" well, as the largest single collective of source code alterations on the net it becomes more of an important factor than your average joes campaign. This is not a storyline, this is re-writing and improving a game we all love and as such it deserves to stand out a little. Also, there is already a collective mass of ideas and developments floating around here, to re-write them in a different forum would be a waste of time. If anyone has any developments not relating to the SCP but perhaps relating to something they've done themselves or want help with then this is still the place for that - the main focus of this forum is the source code, but with a single massive project as it's core.
Thirdly, the SCP - as I've said - is a joint venture between Hard Light Productions and FreeSpace Watch of the VW network. HLP will provide both this public forum as well as an internal forum, VW shall play host to the website and files on the project. Cross links will be posted on both sites to tie it all neatly together.
Finally, the project website and other stuff is still some way in coming - everyone is still really busy but this is a start which is better than nothing. It's now publicly known that this is going to happen and peolpe can start planning for that and asking questions (something I encourage in this instance because you might ask something we haven't thought of yet).
All in all I'm really optimistic about this, the source code is a much needed boost to the community and if we get it right we can acomplish some truly great things.
So without further ado, enjoy!
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(http://www.cgtalk.com/images/smilies/buttrock.gif) <---- add this smiley
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Woot!
You've got forums and webspace and maybe a site, all you need to do now is code :)
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This people, is where things get immensely cool :)
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two questions:
1) why a private forum? it's public stuff no? hiding stuff would be kindda unfair.
2) exactly what have been done so far? Concrete stuff I mean, stuff that works. I keep wondering, to be honest.
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Ditto to what venom said.
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We demand unfettered access to............
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Glad there's approval (more or less :)) so far...
In answer to Venoms questions - the private forum is for things that don't need to be public - the messy side of things. Administration doesn't need to take place in the public eye because then everyone will want to have an opinion and nothing will ever get done. By making the private forum with access to those on the staff (not necessarily all of them - just the core administration) things can be taken into a place and talked out carefully and a decision reached quickly, as opposed to every Tom, Dick and Harry coming along with a different wish which means things need to get changed again. One thing that's certain is that there will be clashes in interests - some people may want white out glows from pointing your ship at a sun whist others may want that reduced or even removed. It's a little example of the possibilities.
As for what's actually been done so far - not to much, we've got a whole shed load of ideas around the place (with more coming in all the time) and as far as I know Bobboau is the only one to really acomplish anything with his glow points adjustments. But you have to understand that this will take time. It's a very big thing and to expect a load of instant results (as I understand it) is simply not going to be possible. Also on the VW forums Komet has made a mod (http://www.hard-light.net/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=6529) which does a load of pretty cool stuff, though I'm not sure if it uses the source code or simply puts all that in an .EXE from which it runs.
Like I said though - fast, good results may be expecting to much. But I've come to understand that every little helps - trying to do everything in one bulk go means nothing really gets done (for people like me anyways) so consider this a little start to a big thing.
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Originally posted by venom2506
2) exactly what have been done so far? Concrete stuff I mean, stuff that works. I keep wondering, to be honest.
I'm going to be working on the Linux port, as soon as I can find penguin to figure out why it won't compile for me. I couldn't raise him on either email or ICQ.
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To a certain extent, a great deal has been done. In another light, very little has been done.
Very little has been actually committed to CVS, because people seem reluctant to committ to CVS, or don't believe that the CVS we got is official, or don;t know aout CVS, or don;t understand CVS (pick one :)).
It's possible that you might be over thinking the administration of this, FYI, but since I have no visibility into whatever you are thinking, I can't address it.
Most of the admin so far has simply been granting (albeit few) people access to CVS, and that I need to have done via email anyway. I dunno, if it is to be like an open source (like, not actually AN open source) project, just about everything needs to be out in the open. That's the only way we can attract new developers to the mix.
IF I could ever get the attention of you or Ice, maybe I could talk thru some of these issues :)
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well, from what i've gathered, the thing is going in every direction for now, and doesn't focus much. I think it should be a "one thing at a time" project. everybody asks for stuff, and nobody really works on anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm like everybody, i'd like the things I need to be done first, but I know it's not possible, i'm not that stupid (hmm, or maybe I am, but whatever ). Anyway, I think people should say: ok, now we do THAT, and people should work ok it, and only even think of trying something else only when "THAT" is done. my 2 cents ( you might think this goes w/o saying, but it goes even better by saying it ^_^ )
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Venom:
Help me do the design doc :)
37097749
We have a crapload of features to sift thru, to create a definitive list of stuff to do.
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Venoms hit the nail on the head - the exact explanation of the admin part of this and the need for an interenal forum. From there people can prioritise things so that we make sure we remove the table limit cap before we make the suns look prettier or something - so that the important stuff is done first and nobody is left waiting around for things to happen that their own projects may rely on. If we do all that deciding publicly I'm fairly sure there will be more disagreement than anything else and nothing will ever get done. Once this is done we can work out what needs to be done and then those who can do it can step forwards and get on with it, those who want to help but can't at that stage can be looking at other stuff and getting information together and so on, thus we make progress much faster because background research in other stuff is being done at the same time as other bits and pieces are being coded.
Inq, I'd really like to talk to you about this on ICQ - can you tell me some time that you'll be online with some spare time? I'm fairly busy in college at the moment so it may take time to find a suitable time for both of us but I see you as having a whole shed load of incite on things and I'd like to fill you in on your questions as well as best I can.
Venom, also - if you've any questions or anything then contact me on ICQ if posting them up here isn't convienient (failing that email me) - The more information people have, the better we can get things done on this one.
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I am usually on ICQ all day, just about everyday.
I'll be on when i get to the office this morning :)
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well, I'm at college now, so no ICQ.
yosh, in the order of posts:
inquisitor:
I'd glady help for that, but seeing I'm not a programmer... Well, my only advice would be first to remove the annoying limits ( gotta make a list of those limits... mmh, size of the various tbls, number of entries in those tbls, number of ships in fred, number of glows on ships, etc etc ).
Once this is done, fixing what is screwed up by this ( having to many ships breaks mplayer I think ).
After that, enabling what is already ingame but isn't available to player ( various commands, the glide lightning, enabling remapping of certain keys - sliding-, dunn, mmh, all that kind of stuff)
And so on. by order of priority I think.
Well, voila.
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It's more than that, Venom. There are 2 VERY long threads that need to be turned into one master list of things to do, then we prioritize that list (much like Tbird is suggesting we do in a private forum).
Step one: get the list in one document, cut and paste from both threads
Step two: remove superflous stuff and duplicate suggestions.
step three: order the list
step four: discuss it with the team
step five: reorder the list and maintain the list as new bugs are found, or suggesttions made :)
The key is to capture EVERYTHING that people want, and prioritize later.
Email me at [email protected]
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Thunder, I am on now ;)
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how are you/we going to prioritise this, buy ease of implementation (how I'd do it), by coolnes, by personal opinion of what is more important/
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Hey Thunder, let me know if you need help with anything, or if there's anything I can help with!
~Stealth~
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Look at the steps.
First step is prioritize, based on personal opinion more than likely, step after that is share with team, the reprioritize as needed ;)
I would say things like coolness factor, technical complexity, available programmer talent (for instance, if no one knows DX8, then it will be unlikely we can do DX upgrade related tasks), and of course, how loudly the community is screaming for a particular feature.
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Maybe Thunder and I can help by posting news about the Source guys looking for someone to do some DX8 stuff?
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Yes, do that.
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
It's more than [...] The key is to capture EVERYTHING that people want, and prioritize later.
Email me at [email protected]
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Thunder, I am on now ;)
well, my humble self not being a programmer, a good administrator or anything, I don't think I have to voice my opinions or anything, actually.
Plus it sounds like a tough job and I'm one big bad lazy ass :lol:
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Bobboau - I think we'll end up prioritising things by importance to the community in general as well as ease of implementation (if we can get 20 things done by one person in a day then we might as well get that person to do those 20 things and have it over with). Inquisitors analysis of this is equally feasable at this stage....
IceFire - Sounds like a plan, what exactly did you have in mind about the post? Just that they needed someone with programming skills for DX8 implementation?
venom2506 - should point out at this stage that everyone who ever modded or played the game can and should have an opinion about things, every modder will have something in mind that'd be cool to do but can't be done without having a change made in the code, and every player might think it'd be nice to have a little inertia or whatever (ooh, idea - an optional newtonian physics model based on ship mass!). But you see? everyone can have something to contribute if they want to, even if they can't take an active hand in things like programming or administration.
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lol, if ity's that, I can write a 10 pages loing wishlist =D
but what I'd like most I've already posted in in that thread (hear my call ) and I do thinl all this stuff is stuff everybody would like to have.
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Cool :) I think if everyone posts up exactly what they want though it might be better - the more ideas we get the better since we might miss something that someone else thought of - we don't want them leaving it out just because they don't think anyone else will like it!
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The very first thing I dream ( litterally ) of being done is the glide self illumination thinguy. That would make the game looks so much better. damnit, the code's already there, just need to be enabled for D3D ( of course, that "just" might be infinitely more complex that I think, but anyway ).
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*Maeglamor looks around*
I'm excited :nod:
You'll all notice we have a nifty voting system in place. After major issues have been dealt with (getting the thing up and running to the best standard possible, DX8, etc.) the 'cool' features can be simply voted for.
Keeps the maximum amount of people happy I think. :)
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2 suggestions:
First, when dealing with things like sun glows, or physics settings, it will mean a bit of extra work, but those should be added as user-choosable options inside FS2, not as "this is the EXE with sun glows, and this is the EXE without them" crap.
Second, has anyone contacted Heiko Herrmann, the maker of MODVIEW32? If we could get the source for that program - heck, for all the descent tools - it would be possible to finish the parts that haven't been implemented yet, as well as keep them compatible with new FS2 builds.
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venom: it's not about having a voice, per se, it's about collating what people have already said ;)
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What I would like to see:
- model animations triggered by cerrtain actions or sexp's (ex: a cannon rotating or kickback when fired, a certain door opening when something happens...)
- model reflection like in Starlancer...
- Disregard the use of lod's (this onoe may better the performance of the game, because the main problem in FS is the textures... what I think that should be done was only having one lod, and while it goes far away, the texture would become less detailed... it would improve game speed a lot, believe me... :) )
- Model glows!!!!
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A little wish list coming here - but first one biiiiggg request:
Whatever else is in the first release *stares longingly into future* there has to be the elimenation of Table file limits (e.g. allowing unlimited ships to be added to the game)
Now:
- More dynamic lighting (lke talked about recently) so you can have light emitting objects that don't burn your eyes out when you turn to face them :eek:
- More races (>3)
- Damage decals ;7
- Some other stuff I can't think of right now...
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Originally posted by sandwich
2 suggestions:
First, when dealing with things like sun glows, or physics settings, it will mean a bit of extra work, but those should be added as user-choosable options inside FS2, not as "this is the EXE with sun glows, and this is the EXE without them" crap.
Second, has anyone contacted Heiko Herrmann, the maker of MODVIEW32? If we could get the source for that program - heck, for all the descent tools - it would be possible to finish the parts that haven't been implemented yet, as well as keep them compatible with new FS2 builds.
These are both excellent ideas - certainly getting my vote, has anyone seen or heard from Heiko lately? I mean I don't ever recally seeing him in the community...
Edit: And can people please keep their wishlists in a separate wishlist post - this is for dicussing how to get things off the ground, not for what we want to put in - any further wishlists posted here will be deleted - thanks :)
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Looks like some people can't read...
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Originally posted by Thunder
Looks like some people can't read...
No, I don't!
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Riiight, anyway - bringing us back to the matter in hand it also might be a good idea to get a rudimentry website up with just a few things including news, positions available, whos on the staff, wishlists and so on. Compiling the data will make things a lot easier than having to shift through shed-loads of forum posts in the long run.
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I've already started compiling it, I now need help turning it into something readable :)
Where's the website at? Use that above graphic, link to the CVS and bugzilla, gimme a news script, and some access, and lets get this moving :)
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let me know what you need my help with... if anything :)
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
Where's the website at?
It isn't...yet :)
The end result will be up at FSW - but I anticipate that they're busy with other stuff just now? If people are desparate I can take the SoT templates - change them a little and call that a beta website untill IceFire gets a chance to finish off the final website.
Just say the word and I'll get on that - I don't want to start without approval though as it'd be a waste of effort :)
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Word :)
Just make it compatible with wherever Icefire wants to put it (all lower case file names, etc).
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It really won't be very complex - standard HTML stuff with bits and pieces you can just copy paste if you want to (but everything I do will be a rapid job) so I'm sure the final site would do well to re-write all its stuff that isn't compiled from threads or whatever.
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Originally posted by Thunder
It really won't be very complex - standard HTML stuff with bits and pieces you can just copy paste if you want to (but everything I do will be a rapid job) so I'm sure the final site would do well to re-write all its stuff that isn't compiled from threads or whatever.
i coudl help :)
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Go for it.
I want:
News script, link to CVS, links to bugzilla, link to this forum, link to VWBB's mod forum. I'd also like a way to add a link to a design document/task list.
:)
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Originally posted by Thunder
It really won't be very complex - standard HTML stuff with bits and pieces you can just copy paste if you want to (but everything I do will be a rapid job) so I'm sure the final site would do well to re-write all its stuff that isn't compiled from threads or whatever.
Originally posted by Stealth
i coudl help :)
Ditto :nod:
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Alright, if either of you can get a news script running then that'd be great but in the meantime I'm perfectly capable of making something simple and fast - we just want this site functional, not good as such... at least not in the looks sense - it won't need to be.
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Nope, very basic :)
The forum header here will make a perfect site graphic ;)
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Ok, the basic stuff is up... it's not much but it's fast and looks better than plain black and white (I'm using the FS forum graphics since this project is tied so closely to the game itself).