Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: TrashMan on October 19, 2012, 02:48:05 pm
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http://www.indiegogo.com/sots-thepit?a=1627415
A new indie project by Kerberos. A light rouge-like action RPG. Check it out.
B.t.w. - SOTS2 is given the all clear signal!!!
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35604
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lol, a full year after release the game is 'at a state that they wanted it to be at release'. What a failure
Also, that indie game looks really dull and uninteresting. Judging by its name its taking place in the sots universe, but that video has nothing more than generic rats and droid enemies and some non distinct player character in a space suit shooting generic guns. *yawn*
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It looks like something that would have been interesting and unique about 12 years ago.
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Confirmation Paradox is officially fed up with their **** and refuses to fund further?
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Confirmation Paradox is officially fed up with their **** and refuses to fund further?
Kerberos is hardly the only studio making games for Paradox that are completely bugged at release heh. ;)
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They're pretty late to April 1st. Or really early.
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My, my.
So much schadenfreude and bile.
Would it kill you to show some happyness for your fellow man?
You know, a game getting fully patched after a disastrous start is a GOOD thing. Especially given all the game and game developers that go under (case in point, Nocavore and Legends of Pegasus)
Also, Kerberos testing the indy waters with a smal lproject is also good.
To quote:
(disclaimer: (cause folks like to go crazy) This announcement in NO way affects Sots/SotS2 and any future expansions and their happy home at Paradox. SotS 4x games continues to be members of the Paradox family of games...capiche?) ;)
Ok now on to the news!
We have a new indy game project announcing on Indiegogo. Its a sots based rogue-style game called The Pit. It's retro, it's cute, it's cool. We would like folks to help bring it into existence, but more importantly since so many of you have been with us through thick and thin, I wanted to give you the lowdown on the how's and why's of this new path.
Welcome to the Future:
Like everything we do at Kerberos, this new game is part of a plan that is about both the short and the long term. The short term is easy. The Pit is a fun game we want to make and we hope you folks will love it. But the long term is about something a bit more serious; we have to find a better way of making things work.
From inception, Kerberos was meant to be a hybrid development house, working with Publishers but building up and controlling our own ip’s and setting our own level of support. Unfortunately, the realities of the changing computer game business have been making that more and more difficult despite the level of support from the fan base. The bottom line is that long term commitment and dynamic development of games requires dedicated resources and in the standard work for hire model there is just no budget to do that sort of thing. So the choice up to this point is either to ask more and more of a small number of people AFTER their regular work day developing contracted games while at the same time getting involved in more contracted projects in order to pay for the work being done supporting the last one. Sadly this is just no longer viable in this economic climate. While we have always been deeply indebted to the people out there who have shown us endless support and bought copies, even multiple copies, of all our games, the hard truth is that not a penny of that support has EVER reached us directly. And so in order to keep doing what we love to do and still survive, that means we have to start doing things in new ways.
And that “new” way is for Kerberos to go full indy.
While we fully intend to continue our partnership with Paradox with SotS2 and any expansions, Kerberos plans to diversify, carefully, into the realm of crowd sourced indy projects that will allow fan purchase to DIRECTLY enable the kind of support and development people seem to want. Now the temptation here is to go immediately for the big projects that need doing but we are just not comfortable with that. Truth be told, crowdsourcing is a new world for us and we are looking for a sustained development system, not just a one shot grab all you can and pray it scores kind of thing. We need to establish a viable and reliable pipeline for the creation of games in this way and you all need to see the results of those things without going full in on some mega project.
So what this boils down to is we are starting with The Pit; something fun, low risk, and most importantly, deep. (I know, he who puns may have other nasty habits) A game that will allow you to cast your vote for this plan and our commitment to support and still play before the sun goes cold. Assuming there is an audience for this, then you can safely expect 2 or 3 crowdsourced titles (not counting expansions) of increasing size and budget over the course of next year and this will hopefully establish a stable of self-published titles that will keep dedicated support programmers, artists and designers in the office. These games will appeal to both fans of our IP’s and fans of the game types themselves. While we want you folks to see new and different corners of our worlds, we also want to bring new people into the fold by putting some new twists on classic forms and by supporting these projects, you folks will also be able to help vote for what titles get developed next. Assuming all goes well with our ramping up approach, from there we will go on to bigger projects like Fort Zombie 2 and Northstar.
And there you have it. We are looking for your vote of confidence not only in the production of a great lil game, but also in our way of making living, breathing games where support doesn’t end after a bug fix or two. We love creating, maintaining and expanding our games but it can’t be done any longer within the traditional publisher/developer model. If these things are important or attractive to you then we humbly ask for you to come with us. Help show that this model for long term support means something to gamers. Help support the creation of new and enjoyable games for the right price. And help vote on which games will see the light of day.
This will be a great adventure, hope to see you there with us.
And thank you for all your support in the past,
--Martin Cirulis
CEO/Creative Director
Kerberos Productions
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Kerberos is hardly the only studio making games for Paradox that are completely bugged at release heh. ;)
Most of them don't take a year to fix. Or rather, most of them are merely bugged, rather than actually and truly incomplete and unplayable.
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Kerberos is hardly the only studio making games for Paradox that are completely bugged at release heh. ;)
Most of them don't take a year to fix. Or rather, most of them are merely bugged, rather than actually and truly incomplete and unplayable.
True.... but Paradox itself is still famous for bugged releases in general. - and a lot of them are unplayable at release or are lacking core functionality like working multiplayer.
But I agree with you of course in regards to Sots2 being an extreme case.
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Remember Trashy, we don't make happiness, we steal it then bury under a pile of burning tires. Oh and probably dunked in baby seal blood too.
So far, not impressed with SOTS2, it be looking generic as generic food brands you find on the bottom of the grocery shelf.
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So far, not impressed with SOTS2, it be looking generic as generic food brands you find on the bottom of the grocery shelf.
Sots (1+2) does have its unique take on 4x that you will find nowhere else.
If that's "generic" (really?) then I don t want to know what you think of the rest of the genre lol ;)
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So far, not impressed with SOTS2, it be looking generic as generic food brands you find on the bottom of the grocery shelf.
Sots (1+2) does have its unique take on 4x that you will find nowhere else.
If that's "generic" (really?) then I don t want to know what you think of the rest of the genre lol ;)
QFT.
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Go on then, list what makes it unique?
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Go on then, list what makes it unique?
:snarky reply: The composition of zeros and ones in its code. :)
:less snarky reply:... you will not find another 4x game that features turn based strategic gameplay on this scale together real time tactical combat, research driven ship customization on this scale, races that are actually different up to and including completely different means of FTL travel and ship layout, multiplayer vs. players and coop vs. AI all with drop in drop out functionality... in the same package.
Believe me I've looked ;) If there is a game that offers all of the above (or enough of the above to offer a similar overall experience) and is also in a playable state, please do tell. I can't tell you how happy I would be to hear of another one. So far Sots (1+2) total package appears to still be rather unique.
All the other 4x titles I have tried are usually lacking in at least one key area in direct comparison.
GalCiv2 for example offers far superior strategic gameplay, but offers no multiplayer at all and no realtime battles either.
Sins of a Solar Empire on the other hand may be a superb realtime take on 4x... but offers (in comparison) little to no ship customization and very very streamlined gameplay in general to accomodate it being realtime.
Either game is great and I spent countless hours playing all of them. ;) The point of the exercise however is... that they are quite different.
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The sad thing that's become apparent about SotS2 is that it's built on some fundamentally un-fun design decisions. It'll never be as good as SotS1 even with every bug fixed.
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have you looked at the MSDOS era Master Of Orion 1 and 2, cant speak much for 1 as I haven't played it but the only things lacking between MOO2 and SotS from your list are:
Realtime space combat (it's turn based in MOO2), though the Total War franchise does deal with RTS combat resolution,
drop in/out multi because there wasn't the market for it in multiplayer back in the 90's,
differing FTL methods.
research driven ship customization :wakka:
Master of Orion has a much more flexible modification system, which also takes into account tech miniaturisation from improving tech levels. Alpha Centauri also features significant unit customisation.
Not only that but MOO2 has a much more restrictive research tree, want fusion FTL, fine but you cant have fusion missiles, you can if want to choose/customise a race that turns it off but it will come with some pretty big penalties.
Scale, yes the game take advantage that the more modern computer memory can hold larger arrays to store more systems.
anyhow there is a saying in fiction, "it's all been done before". Meaning a genuinely unique idea is very rare and while the differing FTL is not something I have come across before in a 4X, and several aspects of SotS is uncommon as is how it combines many aspects but it is sadly not all that new, just presented with more modern graphics.
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I ve played a lot of Master of Orion 2 (and also 3... argh lol.)
MOO2 was an incredible game during its time, but can in no way or form be a substitute to either Sots or Sins for online multiplayer.
Sins matches take long but are streamlined enough to make battles in a single session still feasible on regular sized maps.
Sots matches may take very long, but if you only want a quick fix you can even just drop in on someone elses game with the drop in drop out functionality.
What MOO2 was, was a great game for multi day lan parties.... emphasis on was ;)
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God, MoO2 was awesome beyond awesome. I must have sunken weeks into playing that game. MoO3 was such a huge turd of disappointment it's not even worth mentioning.
SotS1 was pretty nice too, not originally though. It became much more fun with the expansions. SotS2 though has many design issues that doesn't make it anywhere near as fun as its predecessor was. Not to mention it took them a year to fix the game into a state where it should have been the day it was released. The time they could have spent improving on said design issues if it was even possible anymore.
I deeply regret buying the game in the first place. There was also opportunity to get a refund, but I skipped it, stupid as I was.
As far as I am concerned, I won't be dealing with Paradox or Kerberos anymore. They had their chance, they blew it up rather magnificently. I applaud doing more to fix the situation than many others would have. But then again, many others wouldn't have been in the same situation in the first place.
If this indie game that looks like something escaped from the 80's is their way of the future, then so be it. I couldn't care less though.
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The sad thing that's become apparent about SotS2 is that it's built on some fundamentally un-fun design decisions. It'll never be as good as SotS1 even with every bug fixed.
You oppinion.
The mission system makes more sense (and far better simulates how real fleets work) than the standard system used in SOTS1.
Of course, it's not a system gamers are used to so it's feels strange and wrong.
Untill you play with it and get used to it.
Speaking of which, I see some people are still very much butthurt (for whatever reason) over the release fiasco.
In the climate when companies go under and games remain unpatched, Kerbros sticking with it and not only patching, but upgrading the game for over a year (and will continue to do so) is pretty much unprecedented. Their games are inovative, fun and they are supported for years to come.
Finally, everyone makes mistakes and can frak up. It's how we deal with those mistakes that is important.
Many companies would simply fold, but Kerberos offered money back, free SOTS1 and patched the game as they promised. They keep their word and they keep supporting their games, which is more than I can say for almost any other developer out there.
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have you looked at the MSDOS era Master Of Orion 1 and 2, cant speak much for 1 as I haven't played it but the only things lacking between MOO2 and SotS from your list are:
Realtime space combat (it's turn based in MOO2), though the Total War franchise does deal with RTS combat resolution,
drop in/out multi because there wasn't the market for it in multiplayer back in the 90's,
differing FTL methods.
Real hit/damage calculations.
Battles between ship in SOTS are closer to World of Tanks than anything else.
There are no dice rolls. Waht you see is what is happening. Shots can bounce. Shots can pirce. Shots can impart kinetic energy onto a target, etc...
research driven ship customization :wakka:
Master of Orion has a much more flexible modification system, which also takes into account tech miniaturisation from improving tech levels. Alpha Centauri also features significant unit customisation.
Customization that looks impressive, but when you get right down to it is isn't. 3-4 hulls with slots and you can put whatever you want in them.
Weapons that are not well balanced or broken.
SOTS ship design looks far more credible and has even more impact.
MOO2 was an AWESOME game. Awesome. But time marches on.
Not only that but MOO2 has a much more restrictive research tree, want fusion FTL, fine but you cant have fusion missiles, you can if want to choose/customise a race that turns it off but it will come with some pretty big penalties.
Fake restriction mechanics. You are dissalowed something just because.
Never was a fan of that one.
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what a way to miss the point TrashMan, my comparisons were made due to statements that SotS is unique, I was merely pointing out that actually the franchise does very little that is genuinely new.
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Man, SoTS 2 is such a **** game its not even funny
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Your <insert your fravorite game here> is a piece of trash only morons could love. :p
I know a few of you here just loooove to try and bait me on every occasion.
Won't work.
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That's the spirit Trashman.
I'd appreciate it if everyone keep this discussion civil, as i'd hate it, if i had to lock this thread on my first day as Mod.
Keep discussing.
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I'd appreciate it if everyone keep this discussion civil, as i'd hate it, if i had to lock this thread on my first day as Mod.
Keep discussing.
Nothing to discuss. This will end up the same as every other Sots thread in existence ever (and probably all were created by trashman). Might as well lock it now to be ahead of the curve!
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Well somebody here is a pessimist...
But then again, I wouldn't be surprised you call for thread closure simply because it's a SOTS2 thread. :P
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We could at least try and salvage something before TrashMan starts telling us we're horrible people for thinking SotS2 is flawed (which it is). :lol:
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We could at least try and salvage something before TrashMan starts telling us we're horrible people for thinking SotS2 is flawed (which it is). :lol:
You are horrible people for thinking Sots2 is flawed. It is, but you are still horrible people! :)
There.... now the thread can run its course... lol.
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The sad thing that's become apparent about SotS2 is that it's built on some fundamentally un-fun design decisions. It'll never be as good as SotS1 even with every bug fixed.
You oppinion.
The mission system makes more sense (and far better simulates how real fleets work) than the standard system used in SOTS1.
Of course, it's not a system gamers are used to so it's feels strange and wrong.
Untill you play with it and get used to it.
Good job with that strawman. General said he didn't like some design decisions somewhere but he never specified which ones. gg no re
Speaking of which, I see some people are still very much butthurt (for whatever reason) over the release fiasco.
In the climate when companies go under and games remain unpatched, Kerbros sticking with it and not only patching, but upgrading the game for over a year (and will continue to do so) is pretty much unprecedented. Their games are inovative, fun and they are supported for years to come.
Finally, everyone makes mistakes and can frak up. It's how we deal with those mistakes that is important.
Many companies would simply fold, but Kerberos offered money back, free SOTS1 and patched the game as they promised. They keep their word and they keep supporting their games, which is more than I can say for almost any other developer out there.
Okay, let's look at the facts (very condensed):
SOTS2 releases as a nearly unplayable and incomplete buggy mess.
It takes them over a whole year to actually get it into a playable state.
That's not just a mistake. That was an absolute SNAFU that should have seen them shut down due to their incompetence.
The only reason you're not still mad about it is because you're a fanboy who would froth at the mouth if Kerberos send you a sandwich made out of fecal material through the mail.
Battles between ship in SOTS are closer to World of Tanks than anything else.
There are no dice rolls. Waht you see is what is happening. Shots can bounce. Shots can pirce. Shots can impart kinetic energy onto a target, etc...
World of Tanks has dice rolls, actually. It rolls to determine how much damage your weapon will do (Within 25% of its average), penetration, accuracy, etc.
SOTS ship design looks far more credible and has even more impact.
Lol no it doesn't. The first game's ships all look cartoony and plasticy.
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Okay, putting my general dislike of TrashMan aside (because I have to now): I see a whole bunch of people ****ting on TrashMan for liking a game. Get over it. It is not your job to tell him why he should hate a game that he likes.
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Good job with that strawman. General said he didn't like some design decisions somewhere but he never specified which ones. gg no re
Given it's the only radical and contested change, I assumed that is what was reffered to, since nothing else was specified.
My bad.
Okay, let's look at the facts (very condensed):
SOTS2 releases as a nearly unplayable and incomplete buggy mess.
It takes them over a whole year to actually get it into a playable state.
No, it was actually playable after a few months.
The last few monts were optimizations, minor bug fixes and adding in some cut features.
That's not just a mistake. That was an absolute SNAFU that should have seen them shut down due to their incompetence.
I disagree.
You judge too harshly and you would fail at your own standards.
The game is patched, the game is better than it would have been (added features). No harm done. Everyone wins.
Except of course the haters...
The only reason you're not still mad about it is because you're a fanboy who would froth at the mouth if Kerberos send you a sandwich made out of fecal material through the mail.
Your very vocabulary betrays the deep levels of butthurt.
No, I wouldn't forth at the mount. I don't get call for peoples heads so easily as you.
Battles between ship in SOTS are closer to World of Tanks than anything else.
There are no dice rolls. Waht you see is what is happening. Shots can bounce. Shots can pirce. Shots can impart kinetic energy onto a target, etc...
World of Tanks has dice rolls, actually. It rolls to determine how much damage your weapon will do (Within 25% of its average), penetration, accuracy, etc.
I said "closer to" not identical.
Sicne I was obviously reffering to the armor and deflection and actualy collision detection on actual surfaces for hits/mises and nor to-hit rolls.
SOTS ship design looks far more credible and has even more impact.
Lol no it doesn't. The first game's ships all look cartoony and plasticy.
SHIP design.
As in - ships actually look like you'd expect them to. Modular. Blocky. Spartan. Primitive (given the early staged of space expansion).
Mixing and matching sections and weapons actually has a lot of impact.
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Okay, let's look at the facts (very condensed):
SOTS2 releases as a nearly unplayable and incomplete buggy mess.
It takes them over a whole year to actually get it into a playable state.
No, it was actually playable after a few months.
The last few monts were optimizations, minor bug fixes and adding in some cut features.
That's not just a mistake. That was an absolute SNAFU that should have seen them shut down due to their incompetence.
I disagree.
You judge too harshly and you would fail at your own standards.
The game is patched, the game is better than it would have been (added features). No harm done. Everyone wins.
Except of course the haters...
errrr...... no
if this was EA, Activision, Blizzard or any of the other AAA publishing houses releasing a game in the state of SOTS 2 there would be cries for blood and you Trashman would be one, and rightly so, because releasing a game so bug ridden as to be unplayable is ridiculous and in countries like the UK borderline Illegal as the game is not Fit For Purpose, (that is the legal phrasing). bug fixing after the fact is no remedy or get out for this because when buying a product it is reasonable to expect the game to be playable and feature complete, the fact that even you admit it took *months* compounds the issue
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Don't presume to tell me what I would and would not do.
You do not know me.
You see a bugged game as a crime and you want to see people loose jobs over it.
And THAT would be a crime because the poeple at Kerberos make good, innovative games and it is clearly a labor of love. One can see it.
You are so stuck in the past that you cannot see past it. Too bad.
I got my moneys worth and am enjoing the game.
You can go sulk in the corner and hate for all you want. But we both know who got the better deal here ;)
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You do not know me.
You do realize that after years of interacting with you, we can actually predict your actions to a good extent, right?
We do know you. We can say how you'll act. It's been done in this very thread successfully.
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Don't presume to tell me what I would and would not do.
You do not know me.
You see a bugged game as a crime and you want to see people loose jobs over it.
And THAT would be a crime because the poeple at Kerberos make good, innovative games and it is clearly a labor of love. One can see it.
You are so stuck in the past that you cannot see past it. Too bad.
I got my moneys worth and am enjoing the game.
You can go sulk in the corner and hate for all you want. But we both know who got the better deal here ;)
I am sooooooo sorry but if the game is so damn crucial to the companies imminent survival then why the hell was it not beta tested properly before release
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(http://s1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/Ironcitadel99/slap.gif)
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:wakka:
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Popcorn?
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You do realize that after years of interacting with you, we can actually predict your actions to a good extent, right?
We do know you. We can say how you'll act. It's been done in this very thread successfully.
I can preduct the actions of most humans ( including those I don't know) to a good extent. It isn't rocket science.
But you THINK you know me, that much is true.
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Oh, b.t.w. headdie, since Kerberos made a full refund to everyone, I don't think you have much to go on.
Exactly what did you loose here?
Nothing.
Either your money was returned or you got the game (and the extras).
*****
And speaking of which - the thread is about THE PIT.
SOTS2 is side news. Let's not make it the only thing here.
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The Pit doesn't look that bad. The art style looks a lot like FTL's and the combat looks like those old Star Wars/Indiana Jones Adventures games I had a shareware of. I'd rather see XCOM: Sol Force Edition but this looks playable, assuming it doesn't release like SotS2.
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Okay. Why does it seem that people's first reaction about a bad release is "Punish them!" The economy was in a bad shape, Kerberos was loosing people, and it was release the game in an unfinished state or go out of business. Given all of the other similar games who had basically the same sorts of problems (Legends of Pegasus, Endless Space) it stands to reason that that situation was endemic to the entire genre.
Beyond that I can't see any particular reason to complain about the release relating to The Pit because the entire idea is to prevent this sort of thing from happening.
As for those of you complaining about the game. Try playing it for ten hours. It's not that long. Since release, many features have been added that fixed the egregious issues that nearly everybody had with the mission system, like reserve transfers.
If you don't like the game, fine. That's your preference. There are certainly plenty of games that I can't stand, even though I know that many other people love the game. That doesn't mean that they, or me, are stupid, or that the game is some sort of "lower-class," "elitist," "mind-numbing," game, or any other sort of derogatory term.
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The premise is simple: if you release a non-functional product, you do not deserve to keep earning money. I'm sure even a hardline socialist will agree that bad products do not deserve to keep getting money spent on them.
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A new indie project by Kerberos. A light rouge-like action RPG. Check it out.
Oooh I like pink action RPGs! Do we get unicorns and ponies?
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The premise is simple: if you release a non-functional product, you do not deserve to keep earning money. I'm sure even a hardline socialist will agree that bad products do not deserve to keep getting money spent on them.
Okay, apart from Keberos and SOTS2.
The market does not say you "deserve" anything. Markets function by companies which cannot sell their product going out of business, leaving the products that people are willing to buy. These may be anything, even products that are inefficient, dangerous, or unusable. The idea that as a consumer you have a right to a functional product is socialist in its nature, and it is a misconstruction of a free market system to assign such characteristics to it.
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I would certainly not let my dollars within a million miles of Kerberos after SOTS2. I'd go so far as to say their practices up to and surrounding release were actively deceptive.
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The premise is simple: if you release a non-functional product, you do not deserve to keep earning money. I'm sure even a hardline socialist will agree that bad products do not deserve to keep getting money spent on them.
Okay, apart from Keberos and SOTS2.
The market does not say you "deserve" anything. Markets function by companies which cannot sell their product going out of business, leaving the products that people are willing to buy. These may be anything, even products that are inefficient, dangerous, or unusable. The idea that as a consumer you have a right to a functional product is socialist in its nature, and it is a misconstruction of a free market system to assign such characteristics to it.
Wait, am I being accused of being a socialist now? :lol:
Kerberos is perfectly free to release garbage. We consumers are also perfectly free to spend money on products that work. A company that does not release a functional product does not deserve my money.
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The premise is simple: if you release a non-functional product, you do not deserve to keep earning money. I'm sure even a hardline socialist will agree that bad products do not deserve to keep getting money spent on them.
They aren't bad products. SOTS2 is a great title. Period.
And deserves? Who deserves what? Who are you to decide who deserves what?
Carefull with that kind of attitude, lest one day someone else starts to decide what you deserve.
I support Kerberops and will support it because their games are inovative and deep. Because they support their games and really put their hart into it. The Industry needs more companies like that, instead of a procession of sterilized, soulless clones and rip-offs.
And again, everyone got their money back, so what exactly is the problem?
You lost NOTHING (except maybe bandwith to DL the game)
In the end, what is the difference between waiting a few months for the game to be patched or waiting a few months for the game to be released? Nothing. You get the play the game a few months later and you spent the same amount of $$$ in both cases.
***
God, I hope I never stumble when near you. You'd just jump on me and kill me while I'm still on the ground. You perfect beings clearly do never learn from mistakes because you never make them. And if you did ever make a fumble, you'd take your own lives as atonmenet, becasue clearly nothing else is sufficient.
"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
Dislike Kerberos of SOTS2 all you like, but this thread is about The Pit.
Unfortunately it is my own fault for adding the SOTS2 news in the title, despite knowing what might happen.
Had I not (and had I not been the poster), cerain individuals would have probably ignored the thread and one could actually discuss the Pit.
Seeing as the temptation to argue with me is far too great among some to control themselves, the only way for this thread to be salvaged is for someone to leave. Since I doubt the individuals in question will control themsleves OR leave then I guess it's up to me.
Later.
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Toyotas are great cars, but you can bet if they release a model that dont start well, starts poorly or is incapable of navigating tight turns, each and every consumer who bought one can expect either their money back, a replacement vehicle and or a recall to have that fault corrected, why? because it is a consumer's right to expect that anything they buy, be it a £30,000+ car or a £5 indie game, works as advertised on day 1 and if that product fails in that expectation then it is the producer's fault and their necessity to remedy.
The fact that they have patched the game since then is relevant to the fact that what they did was a criminal act by misleading the consumer and/or distributing faulty goods.
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Toyotas are great cars, but you can bet if they release a model that dont start well, starts poorly or is incapable of navigating tight turns, each and every consumer who bought one can expect either their money back, a replacement vehicle and or a recall to have that fault corrected, why? because it is a consumer's right to expect that anything they buy, be it a £30,000+ car or a £5 indie game, works as advertised on day 1 and if that product fails in that expectation then it is the producer's fault and their necessity to remedy.
The fact that they have patched the game since then is relevant to the fact that what they did was a criminal act by misleading the consumer and/or distributing faulty goods.
Yeah because cars and software/games are so totally comparable.
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If they're not actually functional out of the box and the seller lies about that, yeah, they are; they suck up your money and don't work.
I still remember that it took almost a week for it to be acknowledged the release version was unplayable, and no effort was ever made to get retailers to warn people they were buying effectively open alpha or open beta versions.
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Some new art and updates on the Pit:
http://sots-thepit.com/
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This... doesn't look that great.
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It's a 10$ simple title life FTL.
You shouldn't expect too much graphics-wise.