Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: ShadowWolf_IH on October 28, 2012, 09:28:04 pm
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For my first model I was going for kind of a Terran/Vasudan Hybrid. First I modelled the Cockpit, then started on the fuselage, before I knew it, I had a Carcophagus. That was when it got named "Pharoah". Then I added Wings and did a little engine work. Here's my first fighter wip. BTW, I've only been modelling for two days, so don't slam me too hard.
The raised part on top of the fusleage is a missile launcher, and the guns will go to either side of the cockpit.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharoah1.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharoah2.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharoah3.png)
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With Help from BW, The mesh is much smoother. Any ideas on where to go from here?
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharoah5.png)
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I think you can add the subdivison surface Modifer and look where the Model is when you change the Number by the Modifer in the field "View" It becames more organics look.
You can seperat the Mesh what sould by terran and only add the Subdivision Surface to the Mesh they should be vessudian :)
You make it good. I´am also a newbie in Modelling.
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That's a good starting point. When starting out, everyone is basically learning the modeling tools and approximating the shape they want to create. As you get more comfortable with Blender you will want to progress to the next stage of getting your surfaces to flow and shade the way you want them to. There are a lot of good tutorials on this over at www.blendercookie.com and the Blender Artist Forum (www.blenderartists.org/forum/ . This thread is a little advanced, but talks about common problem issues and how to fix them. http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?93651-Poles-and-Loops
Happy modeling.
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PHA-RA-OH, aa-oo, dammit! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharaoh) What's with that word that people can't spell it right?
As for where to go, I'd say some scales on the wing would make a good start for a Vasudan look...
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PHA-RA-OH, aa-oo, dammit! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharaoh) What's with that word that people can't spell it right?
As for where to go, I'd say some scales on the wing would make a good start for a Vasudan look...
[/quote
I see what you are saying now...... either way, we are working on the model. I'd rather do scales in texture, and save on FPS if possible. Other than that I am not sure the direction to take it. TV hybrid, and as such I like the mesh, it is smooth as V and at the same time as rough as T. Just lost on where to go from here modelwise. This marks day 3 of modelling.
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FSF I need to apologize for my rudeness, yesterday was a bad day, I ended up pretty drunk and posted. Reason 12 not to post while drunk.
My apologies. Hell I wouldn't even have gotten this far on the model without your tut.
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Oh, no problem, that happens to all of us :)
I can see the argument for having scales as part of the texture; they're one of the things that normal maps are good for, too. So then... Perhaps an engine exhaust, some gun barrels? Something like the side flaps on the Horus?
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Ironically I was working on it this morning, I recessed the gunwales and added barrels, Added a second missile deck and recessed the missile bays. A little engine work.
I separated the guns and missile decks from the rest of the model, then smoothed the model except for the gunwales, missile decks, and engines.
[edit] oh yeah, I raised the bottom of the fuselage up[/edit]
note the spelling.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh6.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh7.png)
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OK I added missiles, toyed with the idea of a tail section....it didn't look right, and now I have reached a mental block on what else I could do.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh8.png)
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How about for the rear missile bank, instead of stepping it further up, maintain the same height as the frontal bank and move the rear bank into the sides of that same section? Is this to me more FS1 Vasudan than FS2 Vasudan?
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Terran Vasudan, not fully Vasudan. In fact the weapons systems themselves are fully Terran. Either way I lie the missiles better on the sides, thanks.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh9.png)
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Not bad for a first attempt at modeling; much better than mine (gluing two Shivan ships together).
One suggestion - - although it's good to know where to place gun/missile banks, try not to model them in before modeling the rest of your hull to an acceptable level of detail. The reason behind this is though it's tempting to make gun/missile banks first as they are easy to model, you may find yourself deleting them later because their placement conflicts with how you want to detail your hull.
R
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TBH I'm not sure how much more detail I want in the hull. I wanted it clean, like an F-22 Raptor. I guess F-22 meets Ulysses and built by the guys who did the Pegasus. Semi stealth TV hybrid. Given that, what would you do from here?
And just because I was learning how, UV and AO Bake:
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh10.png)
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Still tinkering with it. Reshaped the wings, cockpit, and engines, and forward fuselage, also added some canards to the underside.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh11.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh12.png)
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Still sub-par. The shape is not so much the problem but the level and amount of detail. You have ~400 polys for the body, right? Increase that to about ~1000 and put all of them into good use. If you need creative assistance, you can PM me the mesh and I'll look at it for you.
R
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removed the upper missile bay and placed it elsewhere, gives a sleeker profile. Also playd with the wings a bit, they now curve upward a bit, and I rolled them. You can't see it in screens, but they roll slightly like the "wings" of a Manta as it glides through the water.
Rampage check PM.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh13.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh14.png)
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Sorry about the bump, I started working on the model again, and then decided to just rebuild the whole thing. I stole the cockpit from the original, and then grew it from there. A little longer than before, wider and tsaller as well, but in game it would be the same size, thus, the cockpit is a bit smaller. And I learned how to use edge split ;)
Old with New 3/4 view:
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh15.png)
3/4 view closer:
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh16.png)
Old and New Top:
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh17.png)
Engine compare:
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh18.png)
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Looks like an Anubis got raeped by a seth.
I likes it.
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Ah, good that you got edgesplit figured out! The new version is looking a whole lot better already, especially the thrusters and wings. The body could use some more greebling - it's kinda blobbish right now - and I'd suggest scaling up the guns, they look tiny. The mounting could also be improved - something like the A-10 (http://www.photohome.com/pictures/aircraft-pictures/fighters/a-10-warthog-tank-buster-1a.jpg) would look nice, and you could do away with the current version's heavy "shoulders" behind the cockpit.
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ok scaled the guns, moved one set to the nose, figured out a decent looking mount system, and slimmed the shoulders a little, x and z axes.
Guns:
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh19.png)
3/4:
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh20.png)
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Slimmed the mid-forward fuselage, did some greebling, AO baked.
Front
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh22.png)
3/4
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh23.png)
Rear
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh24.png)
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Now that's getting somewhere :yes:
Modern models are often so heavily greebled that there are no longer individual greeble 'elements', but they flow over into one another all over the surface. The new Medusa and WIP Apollo are good examples of this. On the Vasudan side, the Thoth is probably the best illustration; see pic below. So in short, I'd suggest that you keep greebling :)
(http://i.imgur.com/MrAhgim.png)
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ok lots of greebling, not too sure about the rearward most vent system. still have the wings and underside to do.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh28.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh29.png)
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Details good, but they're too square which makes it look more Terran.
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Yeah It is decidedly Terran looking. I know how to combat it on my next model, and maybe on this one. It'll get better.
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I can has 1980's Cylon?
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Hmm... This model's looking good :yes:.
I can't offer much advise, but I'll describe what I do for my models. I post the images as URLs because I don't want to spam your thread with tons of big images that have little to do with your model.
- To create curvy shapes from a relatively low poly model I create a new object, to keep the original shape in sight as I model the profile curves.
Image1 (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Misc/start1_zps2cc4720c.jpg)
- I usually spent a lot of time manually moving points so that the edgeloops curve smoothly viewed from various angles.
- I use the inset tool heavily, it can give good results with some creative selections:
Image2 (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Misc/start2_zps0ac4de17.jpg.html)
Note that it doesn't work too well on edges at the mirror axis, so you'll have to correct them.
- To avoid square panels (which look Terran), I usually draw irregular panels over my base with the grease pencil and then cut it with the knife tool (added in blender 2.56 methinks). That tool is tricky 'cause it will create non-quad faces. After making the necessary adjustments and simplifying the borders a little, I use the inset tool to bump the panels. In the image you can see there's a lot of faces with more than 4 vertices after I use the knife tool.
Image3 (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Misc/start3_zps0b267d08.jpg.html)
You can find lots of examples of both techniques in the model I'm working on
Image4 (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Misc/start4_zpsb36355f4.jpg.html)
The engines and most of the paneling in the back are simple insetted regions.
The panelling around the cockpit was build with the base shape + knife + inset method.
Final tips:
- I normally do some sort of concept drawings before I start modeling. Gives me a reference and seriously helps with getting the general shapes right from the start. I also like to make a rough model and then refine the concept based on that (you just have to take a screenshot and draw over it, no need to make a Rembrandt out of it).
- If you are modeling your panels, let some space between them and don't be afraid of giving them some depth. I normally use a depth around 0.12 but it depends on the model size. If you are aiming for not-so-deep panels, it may be better to leave the surface smooth and use normal maps (although that's something I can't do very well).
- Most of times, the inset tool works well, but if you're dealing with a specially non-planar area, it may give awful results. In those cases I prefer to extrude each face individually and then manually join the resulting bits.
- Giving your models a quick lightmap UV and baking the Ambient Occlusion to it will help you see details better. I regularly make ligthmap UVs and an AO bake while modeling.
Hope that helps you and keep up the good work! :)
On the Vasudan side, the Thoth is probably the best illustration; see pic below. So in short, I'd suggest that you keep greebling :)
Y U no like nuSekhmet? :(
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I have been extruding each area. I either extrude then scale, if I want sloping faces, Or like on the wings where I want the greebling to flow into the wing edges, or duplicate, scale extrude, delete original face, add new faces to connect the duplicate/scaled section to the rest of the model.
- To create curvy shapes from a relatively low poly model I create a new object, to keep the original shape in sight as I model the profile curves.
http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/start1_zps2cc4720c.jpg (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/start1_zps2cc4720c.jpg)
- I usually spent a lot of time manually moving points so that the edgeloops curve smoothly viewed from various angles.
- I use the inset tool heavily, it can give good results with some creative selections:
http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/start2_zps0ac4de17.jpg (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/start2_zps0ac4de17.jpg)
Note that it doesn't work too well on edges at the mirror axis, so you'll have to correct them.
- To avoid square panels (which look Terran), I usually draw irregular panels over my base with the grease pencil and then cut it with the knife tool (added in blender 2.56 methinks). That tool is tricky 'cause it will create non-quad faces. After making the necessary adjustments and simplifying the borders a little, I use the inset tool to bump the panels. In the image you can see there's a lot of faces with more than 4 vertices after I use the knife tool.
http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/start3_zps0b267d08.jpg (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/start3_zps0b267d08.jpg)
I haven't used any of those tools, but it is probably (read as "I'm sure it is" ) easier than what I was planning, wihch would be massive amounts of subdividing and manual placement of vertexes.
You can find lots of examples of both techniques in the model I'm working on http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/start4_zpsb36355f4.jpg (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/start4_zpsb36355f4.jpg)
The engines and most of the paneling in the back are simple insetted regions.
The panelling around the cockpit was build with the base shape + knife + inset method.
That is so far beyond what I am capable of it isn't even remotely amusing, looks awesome though.
Final tips:
- I normally do some sort of concept drawings before I start modeling. Gives me a reference and seriously helps with getting the general shapes right from the start. I also like to make a rough model and then refine the concept based on that (you just have to take a screenshot and draw over it, no need to make a Rembrandt out of it).
I can't draw, really I can't, I drew a stick figure once and my daughter asked what it was supposed to be. But looking at it, and knowing it reminded me of something made me start looking, see below for what I think I was seeing in my mind's eye as the basic shape when I started.
- If you are modeling your panels, let some space between them and don't be afraid of giving them some depth. I normally use a depth around 0.12 but it depends on the model size. If you are aiming for not-so-deep panels, it may be better to leave the surface smooth and use normal maps (although that's something I can't do very well).
- Most of times, the inset tool works well, but if you're dealing with a specially non-planar area, it may give awful results. In those cases I prefer to extrude each face individually and then manually join the resulting bits.
I don't have a clue on how to do normal maps, not yet anyway, but like i said, extruding each face indivdually and then manually joining is what I have been doing.
- Giving your models a quick lightmap UV and baking the Ambient Occlusion to it will help you see details better. I regularly make ligthmap UVs and an AO bake while modeling.
Oh yeah, I've been baking just cause I think it's pretty. :lol:
Hope that helps you and keep up the good work! :)
Thanks. HLP must be getting warm and fuzzy cause people have been gentle about critique, I have garnered a great deal of good help both in the thread and the irc chats.
Inspirations: I think I was subconsciously trying to make a fuselage based on the Switchblade, but the air intakes obviously become missile bays.
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/switchblade-plane-6-b.jpg)
and the wings from the Pak Fa.
(http://www.paper-replika.com/images/stories/instructions/Military/sukhoi-pak-fa/Sukhoi-PAK-FA-back.jpg)
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I haven't used any of those tools, but it is probably (read as "I'm sure it is" ) easier than what I was planning, wihch would be massive amounts of subdividing and manual placement of vertexes.
Well, the inset and knife tools are rather poorly presented. I used your same method until I saw this on the release notes of the new version.
For the knife tool, there's this video: http://cgcookie.com/blender/2012/08/17/blender-knife-modeling-tool/ (http://cgcookie.com/blender/2012/08/17/blender-knife-modeling-tool/)
The inset tool is simple: firstly, select the faces and press "I" or open the Specials menu with "W" and then selecting "Inset faces". Moving the mouse dynamically changes the thickness of the inset. Pressing "Ctrl" while moving the mouse will change the depth. Enter to accept. Voilà!
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ok lod0 is done. I'm actually quite happy with it. Not my original vision, but better than what I was thinking. Thank you to all.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh31.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh32.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh33.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh34.png)
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Looks good. The only thing I would recommend is to try and smooth out the cockpit glass dome area. I think a more sleek, aerodynamic look might suit it nicely.
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I have a tiny comment. I think that black rectangle in the side is a face with normals inversed or, if you used the knife tool, a non-quad face.
And I agree with mjn that a smoother cockpit would be nice.
Otherwise, great first model. :yes:
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slimmed the cockpit, smoothed it some too. Also the black triangles were a quirk, the back of one face trying to show through the front of another. Either way, handled. I wanted to keep the basic shape of the cockpit, as I like the "forward" lean to it, adds a little aggression to things. But I did slim it on the x axis, and did some work on the y and z axes as well.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh35.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh36.png)
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Good job! That came together really well, especially for being a first model. I like its bulkiness. :yes2:
I look forward to seeing your future work.
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Now there's a pretty darn decent first model :yes:
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That's a much better cockpit :).
And just curious: Will you be texturing too?
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I will. But not immediately. I am planning to get a few more models under my belt so that modelling related lessons stick with me when I do branch out to learn texturing. Then I will be modelling and texturing, and then I will branch into learning the things I don't know in conversion. I just don't think it's a good idea to try learning too many different things at once. I'm still learning to model, the rest will come in time.
So yeah, fair warning, this thread will probably be necroed.
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So yeah, fair warning, this thread will probably be necroed.
Not only this one.
It's happened before, will happen again.
In that case, what are the next few models going to be?
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Redo of my stealth bomber, http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=82857.0 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=82857.0)
then a redo of my Normandy Assault Transport system http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=83235.0 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=83235.0)
POF and learn to texture (Pharaoh).
Cockpits for Pharaoh and Nefertiti. Cruiser, Carrier, Installation. Ground based things, a satellite for my "String of Pearls," Asteroids (special), and a few other things that currently need to go unmentioned.
This is probably just going to get moved to CoW dev pics.
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:bump:
ok, still a wip, but learning to texture none the less. Been working really heavy on the back end, and still have a good deal to do on it.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh40.png)
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still working on it.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh41.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh42.png)
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Not bad, do I spot some baked glowmaps on the flank? :yes:
I'd suggest adding a second base colour (perhaps dark grey, or light beige?) to the overall texture, the monolithic brown looks a little dull.
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I like it :yes: . Looks like a very cool next-gen SOC terran fight... Wait. Wasn't it supposed to be zod fighter?
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Might as well roll with it now. :P In my opinion, the stripes could use a "redder" red, if you catch my drift. Right now they are barley noticeable.
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Not bad, do I spot some baked glowmaps on the flank?
I'd suggest adding a second base colour (perhaps dark grey, or light beige?) to the overall texture, the monolithic brown looks a little dull.
I didn't bake the glow map, hadn't even thought to actually. That was done manually. Sorry. As far as the base color goes, I was just getting started grunging it up a bit.
I like it :yes: . Looks like a very cool next-gen SOC terran fight... Wait. Wasn't it supposed to be zod fighter?
It was originally, but after greebing it was decidedly terran looking so I just kind of went with it.
Might as well roll with it now. :P In my opinion, the stripes could use a "redder" red, if you catch my drift. Right now they are barley noticeable.
I can beef up the red, I was shying away from the "sparkling new and shiny" look in favor of used and a bit faded. I don't know why, this is after all supposed to be a next gen fighter, I guess it would be all buffed and pretty. The opacity of that layer is only 29, I'll see what I can do.
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ok, added the second base and grunged it a bit, brought out the red to opacity 55. I am thinking that I need to darked the "greeble walls" for lack of a better term. Best example is where the top missile bays meet at the center line.
Also, on the baked glow. All I did was find a place on the AO where the AO would enhance any coloring I did, then place the glows accordingly, color the parts of the map where the lights would be reflected AND multiplied by the AO. That was actually the easiest part, and I think it turned out pretty well.
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh43.png)
(http://casofwar.hard-light.net/images/Pharaoh44.png)
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Uh, is this still supposed to be Vasudan? Guess not.
Texture reminds me of some of SolCommand's stuff. Not bad :)