Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: SaltyWaffles on November 10, 2012, 12:53:38 pm
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It might just be me, but there seem to be a few things about the events surrounding Post Meridian that leave me wondering.
1) Why did the Meridian have such a tiny escort? One Deimos and two Aeolus's can't be the standard escort in a combat deployment, let alone a bold offensive action. Did he just not have command over any other ships (and if so, why/how)? Why didn't Steele have a hunter-killer team ready to strike the UEF's counterstrike force, once they attacked the Meridian?
2) What exactly about Severanti's move got him removed from command/removed from the Sol theater? Was it that the move was a tactical blunder (and if so, how exactly does it qualify as such--the Meridian escaped, most or all of its escorts escaped, one Sanctus was destroyed, and they did serious damage to Luna infrastructure)? Or was it seen as politically reckless (as in, it was seen as a move clearly motivated by seemingly petty political reasons, not good tactical or strategic sense)?
3) Given that the Meridian escaped, what kind of casualties did the destroyer sustain? And how bad (in general) was the damage--is it something like 'the ship has to be salvaged for spare parts and material', or 'just needs X weeks of repairs in dry-dock'?
4) How much damage did Severanti's attack on Luna actually do, and what kind of damage was it? Was it significant logistical damage, or something like modest logistical damage but unnecessarily high civilian casualties?
If you don't want to answer any/some of these questions, no worries; I'm just curious. Thanks in advance for any answers provided :)
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1) most of the Meridian group had been deployed in the offensive so the destroyer was running minimal escort
2) I think Severanti was trying to display initiative and worth
3) I hate to think, probably on the same order as the Carthage
$) dont know
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1) Committed to other actions in the system. This is a major reason that the attack was such a huge blunder. Severanti proved he was incapable of utilizing his assets without putting them in excessive danger in the Sol theater.
2) Perhaps. Although keep in mind that, based on how well the player performs, it's entirely possible to destroy all of the Meridian's escorts and also save the Vatican, though the latter is significantly more difficult. The big reason as it seemed to me was that he'd managed to get himself caught in an entirely avoidable and costly ambush that cost lives, material, and momentum.
3) Bad enough to leave Sol for several weeks or months. I'd say "extensive" damage, requiring several weeks or months of dry dock repairs, and quite a few personnel casualties.
4) I'm not sure. It wasn't as effective as the Blitz, by a long shot, and significantly more costly overall.
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1) Why didn't Steele have a hunter-killer team ready to strike the UEF's counterstrike force, once they attacked the Meridian?
Serkr may have been engaged elsewhere. Steele may have even withheld support from Severanti, knowing that it would probably result in him given free reign in the Sol Theater.
2) What exactly about Severanti's move got him removed from command/removed from the Sol theater? Was it that the move was a tactical blunder (and if so, how exactly does it qualify as such--the Meridian escaped, most or all of its escorts escaped, one Sanctus was destroyed, and they did serious damage to Luna infrastructure)? Or was it seen as politically reckless (as in, it was seen as a move clearly motivated by seemingly petty political reasons, not good tactical or strategic sense)?
Severanti risked his Destroyer and his Battlegroup in a rash, not very well thought out attack that wasn't very effective in compromising the UEF's warfighting ability. Given what he probably promised his superiors (who, let us not forget, were already impatient with him!), removing him was the only option that the GTVA High Command had.
3) Given that the Meridian escaped, what kind of casualties did the destroyer sustain? And how bad (in general) was the damage--is it something like 'the ship has to be salvaged for spare parts and material', or 'just needs X weeks of repairs in dry-dock'?
Meridian is not unrepairable.
4) How much damage did Severanti's attack on Luna actually do, and what kind of damage was it? Was it significant logistical damage, or something like modest logistical damage but unnecessarily high civilian casualties?
Please read the dialogue in "One Perfect Moment" again.
If you don't want to answer any/some of these questions, no worries; I'm just curious. Thanks in advance for any answers provided :)
As always firm answers will not be forthcoming. The best you can hope for is informed speculation.
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As always firm answers will not be forthcoming. The best you can hope for is informed speculation.
This, I am completely fine with and actually love to see.
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And yeah, the possibility of Steele intentionally withholding reinforcements to get Severanti out of the way immediately occured to me, but the question still lingered, from the perspective of 'perhaps Steele could snag a Karuna kill or two, and shame Severanti by clearly bailing the latter out from a blunder and turning it into a major victory?' ((Not saying it would actually have been possible, but just a line of thought.))
Also, how 'canon' could something like killing all of the Meridian's escorts be? From an in-story perspective, it's hard to imagine Noemi being both that good so early on and so ludicrously aggressive beyond her orders and directives. Don't get me wrong; by that point in the story Noemi is definitely good, but I seriously doubt she was any QuantumDelta (eternal FreeSpace warrior, veteran of all great battles across times and universes). :P
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It's possible, and as such represents a canon "possibility". That means that the ships disabled/destroyed/driven off that can be destroyed will not appear in further parts of Blue Planet to avoid discontinuity.
In a sense, your own 'canon' is whatever you do in your own campaign. In reality, that particular part of the campaign is of negligible importance beyond those vessels that cannot be destroyed for whatever reason.
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Wouldn't Steele get in trouble for intentionally withholding reinforcements? It's hard to imagine Command being okay with risking a destroyer for petty political reasons.
Then again, I don't have much understanding of the GTVA's inner workings. Command might never find out if Steele did something like that.
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Wouldn't Steele be in trouble for lying to a Vasudan Admiral and then hiring Gefs to disable it ?
It's the same kind of problem. Steele makes his own rules. There would always be ways for him to give excellent reasons to Command as to why his battlegroup wasn't able to assist the Meridian, whether it was intended or not. If he's good enough to understand the alien psyche of a Vasudan admiral enough to fool him, turning Severanti's actions against him would be a piece of pie.
After all, Steele WAS under the command of Severanti. I can very well see Steele fool Severanti into giving him orders that would make his battlegroup unavailable to cover the Meridian.
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Steele's point has already been effectively made for him: the Meridian was placed in serious danger by Severanti's malfeasance and the man already has a sketchy profile as far as Command is concerned. Steele does not need to risk the Meridian to get Severanti removed from the Sol theater command at this point, and so risking the Meridian, its escorts, a combat-tested aerospace group, and risking giving the UEF the sort of victory that could encourage them to take a more offensive approach, is inconsistent with what we know of Steele. He's too good an officer to make a play with so many unpredictable consequences.
The person with a reason to avoid calls for help was in flag plot on the Meridian, not the Atreus. Having his command saved by a junior admiral would have reflected very badly on Severanti. The fact he managed to self-rescue is probably why he was transferred, rather than relieved for cause and faced a court-martial.
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Also, how 'canon' could something like killing all of the Meridian's escorts be? From an in-story perspective, it's hard to imagine Noemi being both that good so early on and so ludicrously aggressive beyond her orders and directives. Don't get me wrong; by that point in the story Noemi is definitely good, but I seriously doubt she was any QuantumDelta (eternal FreeSpace warrior, veteran of all great battles across times and universes). :P
It doesn't take QuantumDelta to destroy all escorts and save the Vilnius (the Vatican is the Sanctus in Darkest Hour if I'm not mistaken).
Even I managed it after a few tries and I never finished any campaign beyond medium difficulty (and damn few on medium...). It's mostly a matter of learning which turrets need to be destroyed (beam turrets are obvious, but if you only destroy those, that's not enough).
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Wouldn't Steele be in trouble for lying to a Vasudan Admiral and then hiring Gefs to disable it ?
It's the same kind of problem. Steele makes his own rules. There would always be ways for him to give excellent reasons to Command as to why his battlegroup wasn't able to assist the Meridian, whether it was intended or not. If he's good enough to understand the alien psyche of a Vasudan admiral enough to fool him, turning Severanti's actions against him would be a piece of pie.
After all, Steele WAS under the command of Severanti. I can very well see Steele fool Severanti into giving him orders that would make his battlegroup unavailable to cover the Meridian.
Yeah, he probably could. Steele has a plan for everything.
EDIT:
Steele's point has already been effectively made for him: the Meridian was placed in serious danger by Severanti's malfeasance and the man already has a sketchy profile as far as Command is concerned. Steele does not need to risk the Meridian to get Severanti removed from the Sol theater command at this point, and so risking the Meridian, its escorts, a combat-tested aerospace group, and risking giving the UEF the sort of victory that could encourage them to take a more offensive approach, is inconsistent with what we know of Steele. He's too good an officer to make a play with so many unpredictable consequences.
The person with a reason to avoid calls for help was in flag plot on the Meridian, not the Atreus. Having his command saved by a junior admiral would have reflected very badly on Severanti. The fact he managed to self-rescue is probably why he was transferred, rather than relieved for cause and faced a court-martial.
I see how that's probably more likely, assuming that Steele isn't dumb enough to unnecessarily risk a destroyer (he's probably not). That said, why would Severanti get a reduced punishment for making a selfish decision like that? He'd be risking three warships and all the officers on board just to save face.
Unless Command doesn't find out, that is.
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NG's post is by far the most credible representation of what probably happened.
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Yeah, Severanti probably just decided to handle it himself. I'm still not sure why he didn't get in more trouble for that, though.
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Yeah, Severanti probably just decided to handle it himself. I'm still not sure why he didn't get in more trouble for that, though.
If Severanti manages to recover on his own, the decision to give him responsibility that let him take these risks is still justifiable; he still retains a marginal claim to be competent as an officer. He took more risks than he probably should have, many officers ultimately will and some of those, like Severanti, won't get away with it. (Some, like Steele during the Blitz, will.) But he did not take risks so serious as to invalidate the decision that placed him in command.
If he was unable to recover on his own, that would place serious doubt on his fitness as an officer. He would have taken risks that clearly have no safety net in a situation that clearly does not call for taking those risks. This makes the decision to place him in command of the Meridian battlegroup a clear mistake; no officer of flag rank should have done this.
It's the difference between being merely unwise and being actively stupid, and hence the difference between a transfer to a post where Severanti can do less harm if something goes wrong and a court-martial for gross negligence.
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Oh, I see. His ability to recover on his own shows that he's not completely incompetent.
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Christ. It's not about black and white. There are 50 shades of grey here. Come on man work those neurons.
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He held his own against a superior force for 18 months, I wouldn't say he's incompetent. Just not godlike. Like Steele.
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Considering what the team has said about their model for the UEF being in some ways Imperial Japan, obvious parallel time.
Severanti is Frank Jack Fletcher. He's not a bad admiral, but he went through the initial fumbling-around wtf-are-we-doing period of the war and it's shaped his opinions on how it should be waged. His conservatism and now his particular mistake (though Severanti did something considerably worse then pulling out of the Guadalcanal operation early like Fletcher did) have resulted in his relief, but in a lot ways he was just reacting to his existing battle experience. Intelligently, no less, but that experience does not necessarily pertain to future battles when the strategic dynamics have been so heavily altered.
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He held his own against a superior force for 18 months, I wouldn't say he's incompetent. Just not godlike. Like Steele.
*Looks at forces deployed list*
Yeah, I guess he didn't have much to work with. He has the misfortune of commanding a battlegroup full of Deimoses and Aeoluses, which if not bad ships are far weaker in terms of anti-warship firepower than their more modern counterparts in the 14th.
And, GTVA's initial offensive had just fallen apart. Severanti's battlegroup was never supposed to lead the assualt.
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I believe tutta said something about there being a few more corvettes available too - and before the Requiem and the 16th battle group left, the balance was more even - but still, running a war isn't something that one need be incompetent to not succeed at.
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He held his own against a superior force for 18 months, I wouldn't say he's incompetent. Just not godlike. Like Steele.
It was definitely a challenge for him to make inroads into the Jovian Rim with what he had to work with (and the constraints he was under)--even with only the 3rd Fleet as opposition. He had to avoid a major engagement like the plague after the beginning of the war, as he'd be badly outgunned, forced to protect his 'one shot from unarmed' Hecate destroyers with a bunch of Deimos corvettes that would be seriously outranged by Karunas (out utterly overwhelmed by a massed Karuna, Sanctus, and Uriel/Kent charge).
If the 1st and 2nd Fleets provided more than token support at that time period, I can't see how Severanti would have been expected to make any offensive gains without heavy losses and/or using a total war protocol.
Steele is awesome and a brilliant commander, no doubt, but a huge part of his success in the Sol theater is that he has access to a slew of the cutting edge of Tev technology and designs. It simply gives him so many more options than Severanti ever had; what makes Steele's performance so impressive regardless is just how well he utilizes those options.