Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: headdie on November 27, 2012, 10:03:19 am
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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/huge-mars-colony-eyed-spacex-founder-elon-musk-120626263.html
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He's just completely crazy and insane.
And I'd love that this planet had more people like him.
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im not sure i 100% agree with his plan though. i think before we start martian colonization i think we need an industrial complex on the moon to extract fuel, water, and manufacture and materials for colonization craft. which i think would be a better investment. it could service satellites, space stations the like because it is probibly cheaper to refuel them from the moon than it would be to launch new ones or refuel from the earth. and of course competition between lunar refuelers and earth refuelers would drive launch and transport technology forward.
once thats out of the way then go to mars. infrastructure then colonization. also we need to get away from chemical rockets for interplanetary craft, get things like vasimr working, and develop better power systems to allow for their continuous operation. this is probibly the nearer term thing too, as vasimr is due for in-space testing in 2015.
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RED MARS TRILOGY IS GO
Somehow I think the idea of any random person being able to pay to be among the first colonists of Mars is a little crazy; should instead be people qualified to do specialized tasks best suited for the mission. Though I imagine that's for ~80,000 people he plans to send over after its established, not the first few.
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Book me for a flight! :D
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RED MARS TRILOGY IS GO
Personally, I am betting more on Red Faction.
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I caught him at talk a couple of weeks ago, here's a youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1HZIQliuoA&feature=youtu.be&t=6m
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RED MARS TRILOGY IS GO
Personally, I am betting more on Red Faction.
I'm going for Red Faction / Descent. (1, 3)
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Reading the titled... I wondered for a second if it would be a Kickstarter :)
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For a second I thought it was a plan to stuff your body in a rocket and shoot it at Mars so that your dessicated corpse spills out onto it's surface for all to see...
I'm sure there's some dude out there who'd want to end it that way...
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For a second I thought it was a plan to stuff your body in a rocket and shoot it at Mars so that your dessicated corpse spills out onto it's surface for all to see...
I'm sure there's some dude out there who'd want to end it that way...
*Raises hand*
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I've always gone for "shot out into space" but that'll do just fine as well...
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I always wonder how people fall for these cheap travel options. Sure say they'll get you to Mars on the cheap. So you whip out your credit card and stick $500, 000 on there thinking to yourself that you got a great deal. All you've done is paid enough to allow them to hit you with all the surcharges. "Want to breath sir? You'll have to pay the oxygen surcharge, mate."
Think you're going to save money on food? I know you all think you're experienced budget travellers but I can tell you no matter how used you are to flying Ryanair, you're not going to survive the 3 year travel time on that packet of crisps you bought in duty free. When the hostess comes past with the trolley, you'll be shelling out for food, just you mark my words.
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Surely you'd be paying out $500,000 to live in one of the worst places (ha, I was about to say worst places on Earth!) available to humanity. Why not just take that money and use it to greatly enhance your quality of life here on Earth?
I could understand visiting Mars, but why live there?
EDIT: Especially the first batch, that's when all kinds of things could go wrong, the first colonists could end up getting wiped out. And you wouldn't know what you were in for, there'd be no one to tell what it's like living on Mars.
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All you've done is paid enough to allow them to hit you with all the surcharges. "Want to breath sir? You'll have to pay the oxygen surcharge, mate."
*Sigh*
I could have sworn someone said this in the thread already, but, "Dammit, Cohagen! Give those people aier!"
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Surely you'd be paying out $500,000 to live in one of the worst places (ha, I was about to say worst places on Earth!) available to humanity. Why not just take that money and use it to greatly enhance your quality of life here on Earth?
I could understand visiting Mars, but why live there?
EDIT: Especially the first batch, that's when all kinds of things could go wrong, the first colonists could end up getting wiped out. And you wouldn't know what you were in for, there'd be no one to tell what it's like living on Mars.
I was going to say something like, "What if the first North American settlers had this same attitude?", but then I remembered Roanoke, so yeah. :p
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It's a thought I guess. If he decides to charge for air, what are you going to do? It isn't free anymore. You'd have to keep your bill paid or die.
Surely you'd be paying out $500,000 to live in one of the worst places (ha, I was about to say worst places on Earth!) available to humanity. Why not just take that money and use it to greatly enhance your quality of life here on Earth?
I could understand visiting Mars, but why live there?
EDIT: Especially the first batch, that's when all kinds of things could go wrong, the first colonists could end up getting wiped out. And you wouldn't know what you were in for, there'd be no one to tell what it's like living on Mars.
I was going to say something like, "What if the first North American settlers had this same attitude?", but then I remembered Roanoke, so yeah. :p
There's a little difference between pure, beautiful, unspoiled land here on Earth, and an environment hostile to all life on Earth.
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Because being among the first to travel and live on another freaking planet is cool.
It's a thought I guess. If he decides to charge for air, what are you going to do? It isn't free anymore. You'd have to keep your bill paid or die.
Hahahaha! Or you could just, I dunno, have them create their own O2 via chemical processes with raw materials available on Mars. But that would make too much sense, better to send people to another planet and then make them continue to pay you to stay alive. Because that makes perfect sense. Right?
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Because being among the first to travel and live on another freaking planet is cool.
It's a thought I guess. If he decides to charge for air, what are you going to do? It isn't free anymore. You'd have to keep your bill paid or die.
Hahahaha! Or you could just, I dunno, have them create their own O2 via chemical processes with raw materials available on Mars. But that would make too much sense, better to send people to another planet and then make them continue to pay you to stay alive. Because that makes perfect sense. Right?
It's not enough. Are you going to stake your life and $500,000 on it? And the real first people to set foot on Mars will already have got there, setting the place up.
It makes sense if you want to make money. It's a drug dealer's dream! You're not going to be able to lose the addiction on that one.
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I'll go to Mars to look for a living, to keep my head down. Staying out of trouble would be nice too. Most likely I'll find something I was counting on finding after Mars gives me a new home. The dream of a new world is enough to justify the cost
That is of course after I **** up all the **** on Earth, and bug out to Mars. Why leave a place before you've got nothing left to lose on it?
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i'd go to find the nano forge
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I'd go to join the Red Faction.
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id nuke it
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The write-out seems pretty sane, actually. 1:100K would consider making the trip and would have the money to do so. 80K people--more than enough genetics and manpower to kick-start a barren world. The real question would be what direction would a Mars colony take? With surface transportation and radiation shielding scarce, would it be based around agriculture or would it urbanize?
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I just hope the colonists on Mars don't decide to do research into teleportation technologies. :nervous:
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I just hope the colonists on Mars don't decide to do research into teleportation technologies. :nervous:
Obligatory:
(http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/5/57/Protip_cyberdemon.jpg)
Applies to all Demonic life.
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as far as radiation shielding goes i think we would be well off to find natural caves, and then proceed to reinforce and pressurize them. which should protect you from radiation. on the moon you could jest pile a thick layer of regolith on top of an inflatable structure. water also makes a good radiation shield, but you would likely need to extract it from the martian soil over time and wouldnt have it immediately on arrival. caves still make useful immediate shelter upon arrival with minimal modifications and materials.
we should probibly find a viable cave site with robotic rovers and plan its development long before we get there. caves sometimes tend to be unstable, so produce accurate 3d scans of them, then a prefab reinforcement lattice can be constructed on earth and then landed with other building materials and equipment on a robotic cargo ship. sprayable concrete would also go a long way to shoring up a cave, and most of the ingredients can be found on mars, just bring cement and water. you could also bring some kind of foam reinforcement which would be lighter and not require any local materials, but wont be as tough as concrete. you then just need to install an airlock.
you will probibly want a nuclear reactor to power tools, life support equipment, you could also use that power for a hydroponic grow room to grow dope food (probibly genetically modified), as setting up pressurized and radiation-shielded greenhouses would likely be a major construction project to be done at a later date. you probibly want infrastructure to produce structural steel, glass, reactor fuel, water (which can be converted to rocket fuel and oxygen with power, id use ntrs for the return ships so the oxygen can be used for breathing instead of burning), you will probibly also need chemical production facilities as well. you will also be relying on a continuous stream of heavy equipment from earth, since labor will initially be scarce.
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Nuke makes a good point. Also, the polar regions are probably the best possible candidate for a colony - you could establish a good underground colony, and plus the polar regions of Mars are rich in perchlorates, which are used in the production of rocket fuel, so these would be a great help. The ice water would be very useful for a hydroponics farm, which could be used as a source for both nitrogen/oxygen and food, although I imagine once appropriate greenhouses were established, the hydroponics would be used only for helping maintain a human-friendly atmosphere in the colony.
Although really I don't know why some people think about colonizing the equator. The equator of Mars is quite frankly a horrible place to establish a permanent human settlement.
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equatorial sites are typically chosen because launch requirements (equatorial launches are more effitient), and they get more sunlight. of course with the reduced sunlight at mars you are better off just bringing a nuke reactor and growing with artificial light.
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Nuke makes a good point. Also, the polar regions are probably the best possible candidate for a colony - you could establish a good underground colony, and plus the polar regions of Mars are rich in perchlorates, which are used in the production of rocket fuel, so these would be a great help. The ice water would be very useful for a hydroponics farm, which could be used as a source for both nitrogen/oxygen and food, although I imagine once appropriate greenhouses were established, the hydroponics would be used only for helping maintain a human-friendly atmosphere in the colony.
Although really I don't know why some people think about colonizing the equator. The equator of Mars is quite frankly a horrible place to establish a permanent human settlement.
It's cold and dusty and, unless you live in a low-altitude zone, very dry. At the lowest points on Mars, there is sufficient air pressure to prevent water from subliming. At the coldest points on Mars, it's sufficiently cold to prevent sublimation.
I'd imagine that polar ice caps would be the first places for bases. From there, hydroponic farms would be started. Eventually, infrastructure & resources pipelines could be build and new colonies could be built south (or north) of the polar bases.
Probably the largest advantage to landing near the equator is the minimal energy needed to translate an orbit and the maximum efficiency when launching due East.
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Or someone could invest in terraforming technology which could solve the problem altogether
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The problem with Mars goes far deeper than atmospheric density, the planet has no detectable magnetic field to shield it from the solar winds meaning what atmosphere that exists is being constantly eroded away, so you could release fresh sources of gasses into the atmosphere but slowly they will be blasted away.
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****ing magnets.
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what we need to do is go to the asteroid belt, put engines on some rocks, and slam them into mars until its a lava ball. wait for the surface to cool, and then terraform it. you should have magnetic fields nao.
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what we need to do is go to the asteroid belt, put engines on some rocks, and slam them into mars until its a lava ball. wait for the surface to cool, and then terraform it. you should have magnetic fields nao.
I have no idea how this works, but maybe you could just slam in one of the Martian moons to achieve that effect faster?
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Nay, you need A LOT of rocks for what Nuke suggested...
Since the Asteroid belt IS technically an incomplete planet... why not pick the left over sol formation trash and recycle it? Nuke has a point.
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Increasing Mars' mass would be a nice side effect too.
The question is, how long would it take to cool down sufficiently that it could be terraformed? Sounds like something on the order of several million years to me.
Building a giant mirror and colonising Venus sounds more practical.
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Actually, most of the atmospheric loss on Mars is due to thermal escape (low gravity), rather than erosion via solar wind. It's not that big of a deal on time scales worth worrying about.
Since the Asteroid belt IS technically an incomplete planet... why not pick the left over sol formation trash and recycle it? Nuke has a point.
The total mass of the asteroid belt is not very significant -- less than 5% the mass of the moon. Nowhere near enough to melt Mars if using feasible collision speeds.
And yeah, as Kara said you'd be waiting millions of years for the planet to cool down again, so that's a pretty long term investment. Lol.
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The asteroid belt and Mars generally do seem to have a large fraction of the solar system's iron, though. Pity that they don't likely have many conductive or superconductive materials. From my own observations, it looks like Earth and the Moon are our only (plentiful) accessible source of heavier metals, radioactives and cool stuff at present.
It's pretty cool though - if we can get rid of the crazy greenies, and the silly people who think nuclear POWAH is EVIL because it makes your dick tiny or some nonsense like that, we actually probably won't really need to worry about our plutonium/any thing we can use for nuclear-related purposes for thousands of years, at the very least. It's just developing the task of developing the infrastructure. And training.
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Take it from a Brit, sending your crazies or criminals to another country only results in them having a nicer country than you a couple of hundred years later. :p
Although sometimes you get nicer country full of crazies for double jeopardy.
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Actually, most of the atmospheric loss on Mars is due to thermal escape (low gravity), rather than erosion via solar wind. It's not that big of a deal on time scales worth worrying about.
Since the Asteroid belt IS technically an incomplete planet... why not pick the left over sol formation trash and recycle it? Nuke has a point.
The total mass of the asteroid belt is not very significant -- less than 5% the mass of the moon. Nowhere near enough to melt Mars if using feasible collision speeds.
And yeah, as Kara said you'd be waiting millions of years for the planet to cool down again, so that's a pretty long term investment. Lol.
should point out that was a very sleep deprived suggestion. you would probibly be better off dropping the moons (they are spiraling down anyway), and save the asteroids for ceres. this will give us a place to planet hop to when the sun expands. we just have to time it just right so that the planet (if you throw all the asteroids at it its technically a planet) is habitable when we need to abandon mars because its too hot.
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Actually, most of the atmospheric loss on Mars is due to thermal escape (low gravity), rather than erosion via solar wind. It's not that big of a deal on time scales worth worrying about.
Since the Asteroid belt IS technically an incomplete planet... why not pick the left over sol formation trash and recycle it? Nuke has a point.
The total mass of the asteroid belt is not very significant -- less than 5% the mass of the moon. Nowhere near enough to melt Mars if using feasible collision speeds.
And yeah, as Kara said you'd be waiting millions of years for the planet to cool down again, so that's a pretty long term investment. Lol.
should point out that was a very sleep deprived suggestion. you would probibly be better off dropping the moons (they are spiraling down anyway), and save the asteroids for ceres. this will give us a place to planet hop to when the sun expands. we just have to time it just right so that the planet (if you throw all the asteroids at it its technically a planet) is habitable when we need to abandon mars because its too hot.
I don't think we'll be able to wait until then, we'll have to migrate to a new solar system and a new planet. Perhaps mankind will have spread across the stars by then. Or have wiped ourselves out. Or been wiped out by the Yellowstone volcano. Or been wiped out by aliens. Or been wiped out by an asteroid. Or been wiped out by global warming. Or wiped out by a new supervirus. Or been sent back to the stone age by a solar flare wiping out all technology, or maybe just wiped off the Earth by a solar flare...
Just thought I'd brighten your day :lol:
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The asteroid belt and Mars generally do seem to have a large fraction of the solar system's iron, though. Pity that they don't likely have many conductive or superconductive materials. From my own observations, it looks like Earth and the Moon are our only (plentiful) accessible source of heavier metals, radioactives and cool stuff at present.
It's pretty cool though - if we can get rid of the crazy greenies, and the silly people who think nuclear POWAH is EVIL because it makes your dick tiny or some nonsense like that, we actually probably won't really need to worry about our plutonium/any thing we can use for nuclear-related purposes for thousands of years, at the very least. It's just developing the task of developing the infrastructure. And training.
We've also yet to fully harness the power of nuclear fission. Nuclear power plants aren't the easiest things to build and maintain either, but I guess that's where you're going with the bit about development and training. Generally I agree... it's not like we have many other types of resources to use for power.
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Actually, most of the atmospheric loss on Mars is due to thermal escape (low gravity), rather than erosion via solar wind. It's not that big of a deal on time scales worth worrying about.
Since the Asteroid belt IS technically an incomplete planet... why not pick the left over sol formation trash and recycle it? Nuke has a point.
The total mass of the asteroid belt is not very significant -- less than 5% the mass of the moon. Nowhere near enough to melt Mars if using feasible collision speeds.
And yeah, as Kara said you'd be waiting millions of years for the planet to cool down again, so that's a pretty long term investment. Lol.
should point out that was a very sleep deprived suggestion. you would probibly be better off dropping the moons (they are spiraling down anyway), and save the asteroids for ceres. this will give us a place to planet hop to when the sun expands. we just have to time it just right so that the planet (if you throw all the asteroids at it its technically a planet) is habitable when we need to abandon mars because its too hot.
I don't think we'll be able to wait until then, we'll have to migrate to a new solar system and a new planet. Perhaps mankind will have spread across the stars by then. Or have wiped ourselves out. Or been wiped out by the Yellowstone volcano. Or been wiped out by aliens. Or been wiped out by an asteroid. Or been wiped out by global warming. Or wiped out by a new supervirus. Or been sent back to the stone age by a solar flare wiping out all technology, or maybe just wiped off the Earth by a solar flare...
Just thought I'd brighten your day :lol:
the only thing that can brighten my day would be a 100 megaton tsar bomba (the original, not the one where the physicist freaked out and halved the yield). yep, that would be awesome and would really make my day.
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the only thing that can brighten my day would be a 100 megaton tsar bomba (the original, not the one where the physicist freaked out and halved the yield). yep, that would be awesome and would really make my day.
I do hope you're just another persona person like Legate Damar or me in my "fued" with Yaiceca.
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Clearly you don't know Nuke very well yet. :D
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He is a man of simple but lofty ambitions.
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Clearly you don't know Nuke very well yet. :D
I know he likes to talk about explosions a lot, particularly the nuclear variety.
If he is dead serious though, I'll just be thankful that it's unlikely he'll ever find himself with his finger hovering over any big red buttons.
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He's a psychopathic Alaskan redneck (at least one of those is probably redundant) so we're all glad he'll never have his fingers near the button.
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I always figured his nuclear detonation buttons would be yellow smiley faces. :)
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I always figured his nuclear detonation buttons would be yellow smiley faces. :)
Hmmm... Something like this maybe?
http://dc118.4shared.com/img/eIpM--PU/s7/Mick_Foley_-_Have_a_nice_day.jpg
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He's a psychopathic Alaskan redneck
And that's why we love him!
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i dont think id favor red buttons in my firing controls. instead i prefer to have a frayed wire and a metal plate, to fire the nukes, touch wire to plate. it seemed like a good idea at the time, but the cats have started sleeping on the console. a lucky thwack with the tail and the earth is a cinder. though i could just as easily spill my beer/deer blood on it. yay!
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Am I the only one who figured Nuke is currently on the dark six months of the north and his brightening of his day was a pun which the nuclear explosion would seem like a second sun?
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im not that far north. alaska is a big state you know, its bigger than most of europe. you have to live in anchorage or further north before you stop seeing sun. i mean we get at least 6 hours of daylight here in winter.