Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Kopachris on January 09, 2013, 03:39:00 am

Title: Fighting around moons
Post by: Kopachris on January 09, 2013, 03:39:00 am: I just realized Mars' moon Deimos has Colly-order dimensions (about 15x12x10km). It is completely feasible to model that sucker and fly around it. Maybe attach some small but well-armed mining installations to it.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: The E on January 09, 2013, 03:40:38 am: That's not a moon, that's an asteroid :P
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Kopachris on January 09, 2013, 04:05:37 am: How many hitpoints would it have? Using this (http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Calculator.html) to calculate, it would take about 3.297E+16 joules to destroy it. Tech database lists the Harbinger as having an output of 5000 MT, which equals 2.092E+19 joules, and 3200 HP of armor damage and 51200 HP of subsystem damage.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: WhiteFox on January 09, 2013, 07:06:21 am: Quote from: The E on January 09, 2013, 03:40:38 am
That's not a moon, that's an asteroid :P

That's not a ~~moon~~ asteroid. That's a spacestation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVekNsgUqn4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVekNsgUqn4)

Back to topic:
Whats with the idea for Freespace-Battles in them we have to fly around an Planet ?
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 09, 2013, 07:09:50 am: One of my big dreams, back in the day, was to get a good heightmap of one of the Martian canyons (at the time I was thinking Noctis Labyrinthus but would have settled for Mariner Valley) and make a mission involving attacking a target at the bottom of the canyon.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Phantom Hoover on January 09, 2013, 07:22:48 am: I have horrible, horrible memories of Rogue Squadron returning.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: BengalTiger on January 10, 2013, 06:42:44 pm: Quote from: Kopachris on January 09, 2013, 04:05:37 am
How many hitpoints would it have?
Well, an accurate way would be comparing its volume with the volume of a Big C, and then finding a multiplier that describes how much more TNT does it take to blow up a rock than it takes to blow up a battleship of the same volume...

Rocks are tough, I'd expect the moons to be practically indestructible, unless hit by a weapon that vaporizes the C and then only begins to shoot. :P
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Scotty on January 10, 2013, 06:48:39 pm: Rocks are also significantly more likely to crack and fracture and otherwise self-destruct when hit with a massive enough force than ships are. Remember that ships are designed to take punishment, and are compartmentalized to prevent major damage from spreading.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: BengalTiger on January 10, 2013, 06:52:49 pm: Well, that is a point.
The multiplier could be less than one in that case, making it easier to blow up a rock into bits than a battleship.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Apollo on January 10, 2013, 07:21:08 pm: In this case I think it would be best to ignore realism and just make Deimos nigh-invulnerable.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: An4ximandros on January 10, 2013, 07:24:27 pm: Unless someone is a crazy bastard enough to add voxel based terrain (a nigh impossible feat) I suggest going with Apollo's idea. Remember to add a portal to ~~hell~~ subspace and have some ~~demons~~ Shivans show up once in a while and attack everyone!
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: BengalTiger on January 16, 2013, 04:30:56 pm: Another suggestion:

Making subsystems on the moon covering pre-drilled craters and having scripted beams of doom destroying them to reveal the damage might give a nice effect if pulled off properly.

The moons should be indestructible to any other weapons.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Apollo on January 16, 2013, 07:16:16 pm: Quote from: BengalTiger on January 16, 2013, 04:30:56 pm
Another suggestion:

Making subsystems on the moon covering pre-drilled craters and having scripted beams of doom destroying them to reveal the damage might give a nice effect if pulled off properly.

The moons should be indestructible to any other weapons.

Yeah that could work.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Terminator on January 16, 2013, 07:42:57 pm: This thread reminds me of that Sol: A History mission where...
Spoiler:
...you assault Phobos and Deimos, which have been converted to installations, and then blow them up
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Kopachris on January 16, 2013, 10:56:02 pm: Quote from: BengalTiger on January 16, 2013, 04:30:56 pm
Another suggestion:

Making subsystems on the moon covering pre-drilled craters and having scripted beams of doom destroying them to reveal the damage might give a nice effect if pulled off properly.

The moons should be indestructible to any other weapons.

Like it. So mark it "big damage" in the table--according to the tech DB, the Harbinger has plenty of power to destroy this thing (seriously, :v:? 5GT?). If it's marked untargetable, can I (instead of using subsystems) dock mining installations to it that the player can destroy?
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Klaustrophobia on January 18, 2013, 07:02:50 pm: Quote from: PhantomHoover on January 09, 2013, 07:22:48 am
I have horrible, horrible memories of Rogue Squadron returning.

the jade moon?
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Legate Damar on January 18, 2013, 08:54:47 pm: You know what would be awesome?

Your fleet is hiding from the enemy behind the moon, and you figure they will have to come around it so you can ambush them, but then they blow it up from the other side and the entire thing explodes right in your face.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Kopachris on January 18, 2013, 10:12:05 pm: Quote from: Legate Damar on January 18, 2013, 08:54:47 pm
You know what would be awesome?

Your fleet is hiding from the enemy behind the moon, and you figure they will have to come around it so you can ambush them, but then they blow it up from the other side and the entire thing explodes right in your face.

Sounds more like something Dukat would do (the blowing up the moon part, that is).
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 18, 2013, 10:17:47 pm: Anyway you try to do it you will get the enjoyment of watching all your fighters run into the sucker.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Black Wolf on January 18, 2013, 10:37:09 pm: With dynamic waypoints and clever FREDding, the FS AI can be made much less goofy than it used to be.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Lorric on January 18, 2013, 11:03:34 pm: The thread makes me think of a cinematic from Colony Wars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GShU0mAA9E&list=PL716DE49C7F49C680
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Kie99 on January 20, 2013, 02:25:37 pm: Quote from: Terminator on January 16, 2013, 07:42:57 pm
This thread reminds me of that Sol: A History mission where...
Spoiler:
...you assault Phobos and Deimos, which have been converted to installations, and then blow them up

Was thinking the same thing, as I recall they were just NTF Boadiceas renamed. As much as I enjoyed that campaign that has to be one of the worst missions ever made as far as realism is concerned.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Kopachris on January 25, 2013, 11:28:20 am: Quote from: Kopachris on January 09, 2013, 04:05:37 am
How many hitpoints would it have? Using this (http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Calculator.html) to calculate, it would take about 3.297E+16 joules to destroy it. Tech database lists the Harbinger as having an output of 5000 MT, which equals 2.092E+19 joules, and 3200 HP of armor damage and 51200 HP of subsystem damage.

I just realized: the gravitational binding energy of Deimos can be estimated around 24 Mt, and the Tsar Bomba had an estimated yield of 57 Mt, and would have had a yield over 100 Mt if they had used a uranium tamper instead of a lead tamper (which they used to limit the fallout). As it was, the fireball had a diameter of 8 km (2/3 the mean diameter of Deimos). Had the bomb been detonated underground, it would have produced an earthquake measuring about 8 on the Richter scale.

We (or at least, Soviet Russia did) have the means to blow up a moon.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: BengalTiger on January 26, 2013, 08:54:57 am: Thus a Death Star would blow up if a Tsar Bomba was dropped into its ventilation shaft?

Quoting Luke:
What a piece of junk!
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: Kopachris on January 26, 2013, 09:54:40 am: Quote from: BengalTiger on January 26, 2013, 08:54:57 am
Thus a Death Star would blow up if a Tsar Bomba was dropped into its ventilation shaft?

Quoting Luke:
What a piece of junk!

I'd say yes. The energy released by a 100 Mt blast is plenty to destroy any nearby intra-molecular bond. After the destruction of the reactor's safety systems, (apparently) the runaway reaction in the Death Star's core would blow it to pieces.
Title: Re: Fighting around moons
Post by: esarai on January 26, 2013, 10:19:32 am: Also we have to assume that the Tsar Bomba detonates away from the fuel storage, and if my memory serves correctly, the reactors in Star Wars use the variant of unobtanium called 'hypermatter' for their fuel, which reacts with regular matter for a 100% efficient mass-to-energy conversion. Now, imagine the effect of rupturing the fuel storage with a big-ass nuclear bomb. All that hypermatter now flying all over the place in a radially outward direction. Look close enough and you might be able to see a hole appear in the side of the Death Star before it completely vaporizes.