Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: FlamingCobra on February 28, 2013, 12:14:54 am
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Me and my buddy have been debating this for a while now, and I've decided I want to find out what you guys think. In some kind of cross-universe fight between the Shivans and the Reapers from Mass Effect, which race would win?
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We lose, because we get involved in a cross-universe fight discussion
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Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the
Shivans Reapers, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.
:nervous:
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Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers Berserkers, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans Red Race, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers Berserkers, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.
:nervous:
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Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans Red Race Amarantin, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.
:nervous:
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Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors Great Old Ones, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans Red Race Amarantin Elder Things, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors Great Old Ones, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.
:nervous:
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Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors Great Old Ones flood, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans Red Race Amarantin Elder Things forerunners, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors Great Old Ones flood, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.
:nervous:
hopeful?
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That settles it. It's a war between ALL of the parties
Imagine a Shivan Flood hybrid. Dear god
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We did that, once. There's a thread dedicated to that discussion in this forum; It's also a good example of why cross-universe debates are completely ****ing stupid.
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Aren't VS debates in general made from 99% stupid?
I've seen so many argument of infinite stupidity in such debates that I was struck deaf, blind, mute and stupid by mere exposure.
B.t.w. - Batts, you're my hero
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There are VS debates that can be legitimate and even interesting. Cross-universe VS debates are not among them.
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Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.
:nervous:
You forgot the NTF Cerberus and Bosch Beer The Elusive man.
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No, he didn't.
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Just from a personal perspective, I've always viewed the Reapers as a cheap imitation of the Shivans. Same basic villain archetype with all the mystery and ominous removed or campified.
Also from a firepower perspective, Shivans wipe the floor. Reapers have to descend like locusts onto one world to slowly tear it down, whereas a Shivan superdestroyer + destroyer team managed to completely glass a planet and destroy most fleeing vessels inside of 13 hours. That was just two capital ships, and we have yet to see what would happen if a Sathanas turned its guns planetside.
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I'm betting on the Borg.
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we have yet to see what would happen if a Sathanas turned its guns planetside.
I'm betting on the Borg.
The thought of shivan beams fired on a planet causing Borg is hilarious :D
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Does not matter which evil aliens intent on humanities destruction fight each other because 1 man - obi-john-tiberius-sheppard-blair callsign alpha 1 will be there to put an end to their evil schemes.
Leaving all the other puny humans that could not defend themselves before to take over the galaxy in an evil empire that will dominate all the other races until a brave band of rebels lead by one woman - obi john tiberius sheppard blair callsign alpha 1's daughter naomi-luke-jeanluc-sheridan callsign neu-alpha 1 take them down.
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First person to bring up weapon yields and the word gigaton losses. Oh wait... I just did!
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All the xenocidal species will be utterly confused when they reach humanity and the first thing they see is Pickard fighting Alpha 1 fighting Shepard fighting etc on who's gonna save the fkin world. Oh wait, that movie was already made.
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Alpha 1 didn't stop a fleet of Sathanas' from blowing up a sun
I think Shivans win because they can make suns ****ing explode
Scratch that, I know they win because they weren't actually stopped... just delayed
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Alpha 1 was just testing them out. "meh" he concluded, "not half bad".
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The Cardassians, of course
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We lose, because we get involved in a cross-universe fight discussion
QFT.
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Herpes Wins! Flawless victory.
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Herpes DERPies.
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Well according to the games Shivans have firepower in the gigaton level while Reapers are in the kiloton level...obvious victor is obvious.
but, Shivan vs Reaper? Been there done that :P http://imageshack.us/f/825/ss00018.jpg/
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Well according to the games Shivans have firepower in the gigaton level while Reapers are in the kiloton level...obvious victor is obvious.
but, Shivan vs Reaper? Been there done that :P http://imageshack.us/f/825/ss00018.jpg/
you said gigaton
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He meant Megatron. Unicron would fart the **** out of these puny creatures.
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BP Shivans win handily; they're god-killers, after all. Canon-restricted Shivans, there's next to no information to work with above maybe fleet level, which means the discussion just turns into numberwank from condescending wannabe physicists (cf. all of these discussions).
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Shivans hands down, as they have beams! Reapers don't if you read the Codex's Reaper weapons arent actually beam weapons, also their weapon ranges don't seem the be that far. As other people have said Reapers need to land on planets to harvest, shivans just blast them from orbit. Then Shivans wipe out the borg!
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that's numberwank! no but seriously thinking of this in terms of direct ship-to-ship combat is boring, hackneyed and ends up wasting everyone's time and attention on a dumb non-discussion
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A dumb discussion everybody can't help but post on, because deep down we all love a good vs. debate ;7
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All the people who post in this thread lose. gg no re. Yes, that includes me :b
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Well according to the games Shivans have firepower in the gigaton level while Reapers are in the kiloton level...obvious victor is obvious.
but, Shivan vs Reaper? Been there done that :P http://imageshack.us/f/825/ss00018.jpg/
you said gigaton
ha, this is bringing back bad memories of the SpaceBattles forum I used to go on in college.
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Nagari vs. Indoctrination go
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"I don't mean the Systems Alliance, Mister Shepard. I mean you. Surely you have seen what will happen if you fail..."
"The survival of the human race is utterly contingent upon your ability to do one simple thing."
"You must destroy the Citadel Council."
*Joy +999*
Coolness:
Nagari: 999
Ghost Kid Overlord: 5
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Catalyst vs Shambhala go
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Nagari seems to be less haphardous than Indoc to the subject, if he doesn't dwell too far out. And it doesn't rely on quantum entanglement for its job, so for that alone, it is a clear winner.
Don't forget, next up is Bosch vs TIM.
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Just to bad alpha 1 didn't have a "romance option" involving choosing between banging their wingman or some hot vasudan that they rescued ;7
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Yep.
(http://s87054502.onlinehome.us/Vasudan1600.jpg)
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i could have gone the rest of my life without seeing that and been perfectly happy.
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Blame Gray113. Besides, had I not posted someone else would have! :P
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bosch is infinitely better-written and characterised, but tim does have a way better theme and a somewhat cool image underneath all the tryharding
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i could have gone the rest of my life without seeing that and been perfectly happy.
Seriously, you people have not seen nearly enough of the Internet if something like that traumatizes you. :p
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Why can't I not stop looking at that image :shaking:
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eh, could be better
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Well according to the games Shivans have firepower in the gigaton level while Reapers are in the kiloton level...obvious victor is obvious.
but, Shivan vs Reaper? Been there done that :P http://imageshack.us/f/825/ss00018.jpg/
you said gigaton
...
wut?
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battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
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The usual Trek-vs-Wars debates are especially heinous for throwing around "gigatons" from fluff EU text all over the place.
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There actually was a pretty decent brief discussion about this very topic on IRC not too long ago. If this thread can stay reasonably intelligent while I'm still interested, I might be persuaded to sum up some of the more salient points here.
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battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
ok, well those were not approximations or assumptions...they are canonical values.
and even if the FS beam ones are not 100% canon well I'm assuming whoever did those based it on FS1 weapons, which do give canon values like for example the harbinger bomb is 5000 mt. So even FS strike craft weapons are far more powerful than ME capital ship weapons lol. So who cares about how good the beams are then, FS ships wouldn't even need them to kill the Reapers anyway.
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battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
ok, well those were not approximations or assumptions...they are canonical values.
and even if the FS beam ones are not 100% canon well I'm assuming whoever did those based it on FS1 weapons, which do give canon values like for example the harbinger bomb is 5000 mt. So even FS strike craft weapons are far more powerful than ME capital ship weapons lol. So who cares about how good the beams are then, FS ships wouldn't even need them to kill the Reapers anyway.
No, see, you're doing the worst possible thing here. I don't care how "canonical" they are: unless we're dealing with a hard sci-fi universe, all of those fluff numbers mean absolute jack ****, because there's literally nothing that they're based on. They're just technobabble wankery. I mean, if we go by FS1, ****ing Furies have comparable power to a small atomic bomb. I dare you to tell me how that makes sense. Hint: it doesn't. So most of us refer to the number half-jokingly, and continue to treat them as the weak dumbfire rockets they are, and we all go home happy.
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battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
ok, well those were not approximations or assumptions...they are canonical values.
and even if the FS beam ones are not 100% canon well I'm assuming whoever did those based it on FS1 weapons, which do give canon values like for example the harbinger bomb is 5000 mt. So even FS strike craft weapons are far more powerful than ME capital ship weapons lol. So who cares about how good the beams are then, FS ships wouldn't even need them to kill the Reapers anyway.
you said megaton
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i just remembered that shivans don't have the benefits of zombies.
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An4ximandros
I saw that picture this morning and now I dont think I'm going to stop laughing for the rest of the day cheers for that :)
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bosch is infinitely better-written and characterised, but tim does have a way better theme and a somewhat cool image underneath all the tryharding
Rose-tinted glasses much?
TIM is well-written, with the exception of 2 things - ME3 and the Lazarus Project. Discounting those two, he's easily on pair with Bosch.
Bosch really has too little screen time for any suckiness to truly show, but what little se see fomr him is good.
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battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
ok, well those were not approximations or assumptions...they are canonical values.
and even if the FS beam ones are not 100% canon well I'm assuming whoever did those based it on FS1 weapons, which do give canon values like for example the harbinger bomb is 5000 mt. So even FS strike craft weapons are far more powerful than ME capital ship weapons lol. So who cares about how good the beams are then, FS ships wouldn't even need them to kill the Reapers anyway.
No, see, you're doing the worst possible thing here. I don't care how "canonical" they are: unless we're dealing with a hard sci-fi universe, all of those fluff numbers mean absolute jack ****, because there's literally nothing that they're based on. They're just technobabble wankery. I mean, if we go by FS1, ****ing Furies have comparable power to a small atomic bomb. I dare you to tell me how that makes sense. Hint: it doesn't. So most of us refer to the number half-jokingly, and continue to treat them as the weak dumbfire rockets they are, and we all go home happy.
While I do agree wiht you that canonical numbers often don't make sense - since the writers just put in what sounds cool without thinking about it - they still remain canon, wether we like it or not.
You and I might not care, but the world doesn't care abotu us not caring.
Sadly, such numbers will be used in debates and while we can ignore tham and pretend they don't exist, they won't go away.
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That's where the common sense clause comes into play usurping canonical references in regards to debates
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By the time you get to the question of "would fictional universe component a beat other fictional universe component b", common sense has already taken its coat and left the building to get something to eat.
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I don't even see the point of it other than overreaching in geekwankery. Or, alternatively, just to try to crack jokes.
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That Vasudan is still better looking than you Terrans...
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That Vasudan is still better looking than you Terrans...
Quod erat demonstrandum.
EDIT:
Really, this is a rich vein of irony we found here. We should mine it.
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By the time you get to the question of "would fictional universe component a beat other fictional universe component b", common sense has already taken its coat and left the building to get something to eat.
Fair point
Although I prefer looking at the scenario less as a who beats who, but how the battle itself would take place. It's a far more interesting thing as a movie plays inside my head instead of text displaying canonical crap
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except discussing how the battle itself takes place is like discussing what two times a triangle equals
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Ok throw any given canon weapon power out the window then, not like it matters, Shivan still wins. 80+ Sathanas and who knows how much else...gg lol
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Ok throw any given canon weapon power out the window then, not like it matters, Shivan still wins. 80+ Sathanas and who knows how much else...gg lol
This doesn't sound like a very interesting story
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Plus I feel like I already played that campaign.
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But it is somewhat an inevitability. When one is younger and feels the rush of the vertigo one senses throughout the canon campaigns, one may be led to believe that this "rush" stems from some maddening scale, and there's this temptation to "one-up" the scale to repeat the emotion ad infinitum. Very fast diminishing returns ensue, and all that is left is a shallow tomb of meaningless numbers. The human mind craves for meaning, not megatons.
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The usual Trek-vs-Wars debates are especially heinous for throwing around "gigatons" from fluff EU text all over the place.
Last I remember the Star Wars vs. debaters had taken the "200 GIGATONZ" fluff for the Acclamator and somehow scaled it up to petatons for Imperial Star Destroyers.
Isn't that almost K-T asteroid level? For a single broadside?
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Those hulls must be made from the skin of a dead god
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Also reapers have problems with energy weapons... guess what the shivans and the gtva have tons of :)
Anyways, a GSV wins both sides ;)
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Then the Excession comes along.
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Welp... time to apply ultimate sanction :)