Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: FlamingCobra on February 28, 2013, 12:14:54 am

Title: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: FlamingCobra on February 28, 2013, 12:14:54 am
Me and my buddy have been debating this for a while now, and I've decided I want to find out what you guys think. In some kind of cross-universe fight between the Shivans and the Reapers from Mass Effect, which race would win?
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: General Battuta on February 28, 2013, 12:16:30 am
We lose, because we get involved in a cross-universe fight discussion
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: blowfish on February 28, 2013, 12:20:05 am
Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.

:nervous:
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: General Battuta on February 28, 2013, 12:22:22 am
Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers Berserkers, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans Red Race, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers Berserkers, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.

:nervous:
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: General Battuta on February 28, 2013, 12:23:29 am
Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans Red Race Amarantin, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.

:nervous:
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: General Battuta on February 28, 2013, 12:24:57 am
Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors Great Old Ones, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans Red Race Amarantin Elder Things, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors Great Old Ones, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.

:nervous:
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Beskargam on February 28, 2013, 12:34:52 am
Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors Great Old Ones flood, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans Red Race Amarantin Elder Things forerunners, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers Berserkers Inhibitors Great Old Ones flood, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.

:nervous:

hopeful?
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: deathfun on February 28, 2013, 01:04:00 am
That settles it. It's a war between ALL of the parties

Imagine a Shivan Flood hybrid. Dear god
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: The E on February 28, 2013, 01:15:11 am
We did that, once. There's a thread dedicated to that discussion in this forum; It's also a good example of why cross-universe debates are completely ****ing stupid.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: TrashMan on February 28, 2013, 02:04:46 am
Aren't VS debates in general made from 99% stupid?
I've seen so many argument of infinite stupidity in such debates that I was struck deaf, blind, mute and stupid by mere exposure.

B.t.w. - Batts, you're my hero
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 28, 2013, 02:07:14 am
There are VS debates that can be legitimate and even interesting. Cross-universe VS debates are not among them.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: yuezhi on February 28, 2013, 02:40:57 am
Humanity is about to be wiped out by a race of cosmic destroyers called the Shivans Reapers, who periodically cleanse the galaxy of all spacefaring civilization, and our only hope of stoping them is information left behind by their last victims, the Ancients Protheans, who were annihilated by the Shivans Reapers, but discovered a way to stop them from destroying us.

:nervous:
You forgot the NTF Cerberus and Bosch Beer The Elusive man.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: The E on February 28, 2013, 02:44:18 am
No, he didn't.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: esarai on February 28, 2013, 03:31:39 am
Just from a personal perspective, I've always viewed the Reapers as a cheap imitation of the Shivans.  Same basic villain archetype with all the mystery and ominous removed or campified.

Also from a firepower perspective, Shivans wipe the floor.  Reapers have to descend like locusts onto one world to slowly tear it down, whereas a Shivan superdestroyer + destroyer team managed to completely glass a planet and destroy most fleeing vessels inside of 13 hours.  That was just two capital ships, and we have yet to see what would happen if a Sathanas turned its guns planetside.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2013, 03:35:02 am
I'm betting on the Borg.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: The E on February 28, 2013, 03:39:42 am
we have yet to see what would happen if a Sathanas turned its guns planetside.

I'm betting on the Borg.

The thought of shivan beams fired on a planet causing Borg is hilarious :D
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Gray113 on February 28, 2013, 04:49:38 am
Does not matter which evil aliens intent on humanities destruction fight each other because 1 man - obi-john-tiberius-sheppard-blair callsign alpha 1 will be there to put an end to their evil schemes.

Leaving all the other puny humans that could not defend themselves before to take over the galaxy in an evil empire that will dominate all the other races until a brave band of rebels lead by one woman - obi john tiberius sheppard blair callsign alpha 1's daughter naomi-luke-jeanluc-sheridan callsign neu-alpha 1 take them down.

Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: wistler on February 28, 2013, 05:21:13 am
First person to bring up weapon yields and the word gigaton losses. Oh wait... I just did!
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2013, 06:03:34 am
All the xenocidal species will be utterly confused when they reach humanity and the first thing they see is Pickard fighting Alpha 1 fighting Shepard fighting  etc on who's gonna save the fkin world. Oh wait, that movie was already made.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: deathfun on February 28, 2013, 06:08:52 am
Alpha 1 didn't stop a fleet of Sathanas' from blowing up a sun

I think Shivans win because they can make suns ****ing explode
Scratch that, I know they win because they weren't actually stopped... just delayed
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2013, 06:11:25 am
Alpha 1 was just testing them out. "meh" he concluded, "not half bad".
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Legate Damar on February 28, 2013, 07:00:37 am
The Cardassians, of course
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: MP-Ryan on February 28, 2013, 09:51:52 am
We lose, because we get involved in a cross-universe fight discussion

QFT.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2013, 11:10:48 am
Herpes Wins! Flawless victory.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: IronBeer on February 28, 2013, 11:45:02 am
Herpes DERPies.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: BloodFleet on February 28, 2013, 11:50:32 am
Well according to the games Shivans have firepower in the gigaton level while Reapers are in the kiloton level...obvious victor is obvious.

but, Shivan vs Reaper? Been there done that :P http://imageshack.us/f/825/ss00018.jpg/
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: General Battuta on February 28, 2013, 12:15:49 pm
Well according to the games Shivans have firepower in the gigaton level while Reapers are in the kiloton level...obvious victor is obvious.

but, Shivan vs Reaper? Been there done that :P http://imageshack.us/f/825/ss00018.jpg/

you said gigaton
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2013, 12:33:00 pm
He meant Megatron. Unicron would fart the **** out of these puny creatures.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 28, 2013, 12:51:11 pm
BP Shivans win handily; they're god-killers, after all. Canon-restricted Shivans, there's next to no information to work with above maybe fleet level, which means the discussion just turns into numberwank from condescending wannabe physicists (cf. all of these discussions).
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: starbug on February 28, 2013, 01:00:14 pm
Shivans hands down, as they have beams! Reapers don't if you read the Codex's Reaper weapons arent actually beam weapons, also their weapon ranges don't seem the be that far. As other people have said Reapers need to land on planets to harvest, shivans just blast them from orbit. Then Shivans wipe out the borg!
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 28, 2013, 01:03:17 pm
that's numberwank! no but seriously thinking of this in terms of direct ship-to-ship combat is boring, hackneyed and ends up wasting everyone's time and attention on a dumb non-discussion
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: wistler on February 28, 2013, 01:49:38 pm
A dumb discussion everybody can't help but post on, because deep down we all love a good vs. debate  ;7
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: An4ximandros on February 28, 2013, 02:07:26 pm
 All the people who post in this thread lose. gg no re. Yes, that includes me :b
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: wistler on February 28, 2013, 02:56:58 pm
Well according to the games Shivans have firepower in the gigaton level while Reapers are in the kiloton level...obvious victor is obvious.

but, Shivan vs Reaper? Been there done that :P http://imageshack.us/f/825/ss00018.jpg/

you said gigaton

ha, this is bringing back bad memories of the SpaceBattles forum I used to go on in college.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: esarai on February 28, 2013, 03:21:48 pm
Nagari vs. Indoctrination go
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: An4ximandros on February 28, 2013, 03:40:08 pm
Quote
"I don't mean the Systems Alliance, Mister Shepard. I mean you. Surely you have seen what will happen if you fail..."

 "The survival of the human race is utterly contingent upon your ability to do one simple thing."

 "You must destroy the Citadel Council."


  *Joy +999*

 Coolness:
 
 Nagari: 999
 Ghost Kid Overlord: 5
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Gray113 on February 28, 2013, 03:40:23 pm
Catalyst vs Shambhala go
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2013, 03:40:41 pm
Nagari seems to be less haphardous than Indoc to the subject, if he doesn't dwell too far out. And it doesn't rely on quantum entanglement for its job, so for that alone, it is a clear winner.

Don't forget, next up is Bosch vs TIM.

Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Gray113 on February 28, 2013, 03:47:49 pm
Just to bad alpha 1 didn't have a "romance option" involving choosing between banging their wingman or some hot vasudan that they rescued  ;7
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: An4ximandros on February 28, 2013, 03:51:52 pm
 Yep.
(http://s87054502.onlinehome.us/Vasudan1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 28, 2013, 03:54:35 pm
i could have gone the rest of my life without seeing that and been perfectly happy.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: An4ximandros on February 28, 2013, 04:00:29 pm
Blame Gray113. Besides, had I not posted someone else would have! :P
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 28, 2013, 04:23:27 pm
bosch is infinitely better-written and characterised, but tim does have a way better theme and a somewhat cool image underneath all the tryharding
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Mongoose on February 28, 2013, 04:25:34 pm
i could have gone the rest of my life without seeing that and been perfectly happy.
Seriously, you people have not seen nearly enough of the Internet if something like that traumatizes you. :p
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: wistler on February 28, 2013, 04:27:41 pm
Why can't I not stop looking at that image  :shaking:
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 28, 2013, 05:25:30 pm
eh, could be better
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: BloodFleet on February 28, 2013, 05:42:35 pm
Well according to the games Shivans have firepower in the gigaton level while Reapers are in the kiloton level...obvious victor is obvious.

but, Shivan vs Reaper? Been there done that :P http://imageshack.us/f/825/ss00018.jpg/

you said gigaton
...

wut?
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 28, 2013, 06:02:04 pm
battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Mongoose on February 28, 2013, 06:47:14 pm
The usual Trek-vs-Wars debates are especially heinous for throwing around "gigatons" from fluff EU text all over the place.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: IronBeer on February 28, 2013, 07:38:27 pm
There actually was a pretty decent brief discussion about this very topic on IRC not too long ago. If this thread can stay reasonably intelligent while I'm still interested, I might be persuaded to sum up some of the more salient points here.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: BloodFleet on February 28, 2013, 08:38:59 pm
battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
ok, well those were not approximations or assumptions...they are canonical values.
and even if the FS beam ones are not 100% canon well I'm assuming whoever did those based it on FS1 weapons, which do give canon values like for example the harbinger bomb is 5000 mt. So even FS strike craft weapons are far more powerful than ME capital ship weapons lol. So who cares about how good the beams are then, FS ships wouldn't even need them to kill the Reapers anyway.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Mongoose on February 28, 2013, 09:12:00 pm
battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
ok, well those were not approximations or assumptions...they are canonical values.
and even if the FS beam ones are not 100% canon well I'm assuming whoever did those based it on FS1 weapons, which do give canon values like for example the harbinger bomb is 5000 mt. So even FS strike craft weapons are far more powerful than ME capital ship weapons lol. So who cares about how good the beams are then, FS ships wouldn't even need them to kill the Reapers anyway.
No, see, you're doing the worst possible thing here.  I don't care how "canonical" they are: unless we're dealing with a hard sci-fi universe, all of those fluff numbers mean absolute jack ****, because there's literally nothing that they're based on.  They're just technobabble wankery.  I mean, if we go by FS1, ****ing Furies have comparable power to a small atomic bomb.  I dare you to tell me how that makes sense.  Hint: it doesn't.  So most of us refer to the number half-jokingly, and continue to treat them as the weak dumbfire rockets they are, and we all go home happy.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: General Battuta on February 28, 2013, 10:06:44 pm
battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
ok, well those were not approximations or assumptions...they are canonical values.
and even if the FS beam ones are not 100% canon well I'm assuming whoever did those based it on FS1 weapons, which do give canon values like for example the harbinger bomb is 5000 mt. So even FS strike craft weapons are far more powerful than ME capital ship weapons lol. So who cares about how good the beams are then, FS ships wouldn't even need them to kill the Reapers anyway.

you said megaton
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: yuezhi on February 28, 2013, 10:29:54 pm
i just remembered that shivans don't have the benefits of zombies.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Gray113 on March 01, 2013, 01:27:29 am
An4ximandros

I saw that picture this morning and now I dont think I'm going to stop laughing for the rest of the day cheers  for that :)
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: TrashMan on March 01, 2013, 02:16:32 am
bosch is infinitely better-written and characterised, but tim does have a way better theme and a somewhat cool image underneath all the tryharding

Rose-tinted glasses much?

TIM is well-written, with the exception of 2 things - ME3 and the Lazarus Project. Discounting those two, he's easily on pair with Bosch.

Bosch really has too little screen time for any suckiness to truly show, but what little se see fomr him is good.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: TrashMan on March 01, 2013, 02:21:31 am
battuta is pre-empting the tendency of these discussions to devolve into a game of 'who can stick the most zeroes between 1 and J by building an increasingly-unsteady stack of approximations and assumptions'
ok, well those were not approximations or assumptions...they are canonical values.
and even if the FS beam ones are not 100% canon well I'm assuming whoever did those based it on FS1 weapons, which do give canon values like for example the harbinger bomb is 5000 mt. So even FS strike craft weapons are far more powerful than ME capital ship weapons lol. So who cares about how good the beams are then, FS ships wouldn't even need them to kill the Reapers anyway.
No, see, you're doing the worst possible thing here.  I don't care how "canonical" they are: unless we're dealing with a hard sci-fi universe, all of those fluff numbers mean absolute jack ****, because there's literally nothing that they're based on.  They're just technobabble wankery.  I mean, if we go by FS1, ****ing Furies have comparable power to a small atomic bomb.  I dare you to tell me how that makes sense.  Hint: it doesn't.  So most of us refer to the number half-jokingly, and continue to treat them as the weak dumbfire rockets they are, and we all go home happy.

While I do agree wiht you that canonical numbers often don't make sense - since the writers just put in what sounds cool without thinking about it - they still remain canon, wether we like it or not.
You and I might not care, but the world doesn't care abotu us not caring.
Sadly, such numbers will be used in debates and while we can ignore tham and pretend they don't exist, they won't go away.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: deathfun on March 01, 2013, 03:45:27 am
That's where the common sense clause comes into play usurping canonical references in regards to debates
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: The E on March 01, 2013, 04:26:21 am
By the time you get to the question of "would fictional universe component a beat other fictional universe component b", common sense has already taken its coat and left the building to get something to eat.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Luis Dias on March 01, 2013, 04:48:27 am
I don't even see the point of it other than overreaching in geekwankery. Or, alternatively, just to try to crack jokes.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Legate Damar on March 01, 2013, 05:42:08 am
That Vasudan is still better looking than you Terrans...
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: The E on March 01, 2013, 06:10:53 am
That Vasudan is still better looking than you Terrans...

Quod erat demonstrandum.

EDIT:

Really, this is a rich vein of irony we found here. We should mine it.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: deathfun on March 01, 2013, 06:50:43 am
By the time you get to the question of "would fictional universe component a beat other fictional universe component b", common sense has already taken its coat and left the building to get something to eat.

Fair point
Although I prefer looking at the scenario less as a who beats who, but how the battle itself would take place. It's a far more interesting thing as a movie plays inside my head instead of text displaying canonical crap
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on March 01, 2013, 07:50:28 am
except discussing how the battle itself takes place is like discussing what two times a triangle equals
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: BloodFleet on March 01, 2013, 12:55:36 pm
Ok throw any given canon weapon power out the window then, not like it matters, Shivan still wins. 80+ Sathanas and who knows how much else...gg lol
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: General Battuta on March 01, 2013, 01:17:46 pm
Ok throw any given canon weapon power out the window then, not like it matters, Shivan still wins. 80+ Sathanas and who knows how much else...gg lol

This doesn't sound like a very interesting story
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Mongoose on March 01, 2013, 01:28:47 pm
Plus I feel like I already played that campaign.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Luis Dias on March 01, 2013, 01:42:57 pm
But it is somewhat an inevitability. When one is younger and feels the rush of the vertigo one senses throughout the canon campaigns, one may be led to believe that this "rush" stems from some maddening scale, and there's this temptation to "one-up" the scale to repeat the emotion ad infinitum. Very fast diminishing returns ensue, and all that is left is a shallow tomb of meaningless numbers. The human mind craves for meaning, not megatons.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Woolie Wool on March 01, 2013, 05:22:49 pm
The usual Trek-vs-Wars debates are especially heinous for throwing around "gigatons" from fluff EU text all over the place.

Last I remember the Star Wars vs. debaters had taken the "200 GIGATONZ" fluff for the Acclamator and somehow scaled it up to petatons for Imperial Star Destroyers.

Isn't that almost K-T asteroid level? For a single broadside?
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: deathfun on March 01, 2013, 05:45:27 pm
Those hulls must be made from the skin of a dead god
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Scooby_Doo on March 09, 2013, 12:01:53 am
Also reapers have problems with energy weapons... guess what the shivans and the gtva have tons of   :)


Anyways, a GSV wins both sides  ;)
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on March 09, 2013, 04:50:23 am
Then the Excession comes along.
Title: Re: Shivans vs Reapers (mass effect)
Post by: Scooby_Doo on March 09, 2013, 05:00:58 am
Welp... time to apply ultimate sanction   :)