Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Mobius on March 15, 2013, 05:46:33 pm
-
Disclaimer: this is not a "OMG the community is dying" thread.
I was looking at the stats (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?action=stats) and started thinking about it. The number of page views has been rather constant in the past three years. The number of new accounts created every year is rather regular, with the exception of 2011 with an amazing 19,018 new members (most of which are probably spambots) and 2010 with 2,852 (a prelude to the following year's spambot spree?). Compared to 2011, HLP had some 36% less new topics in 2012 (which had previously been ranging from 5,109 and 6,300. They ended up being only 3,408) and 25% less new posts, with a loss of 30,262 units compared to the previous year (119,638 Vs. 89,376. They were 149,678 in 2008).
So, what happened in 2012? Has HLP experienced any repeated blackouts which have reduced activity? How many campaigns and mods have been released? And yeah, before you ask, I noticed that many modders decided to stop working on their projects and reported it to the public. I don't see it as a bad sign, because IMHO there's really no difference between a dead mod supposedly being active and an actual dead and archived mod. It becomes a problem, however, when there are fewer and fewer new releases making up for it, but I hope this is not the case.
-
Have you not read Axem's nesletters? There's a lot going on. I'm surprised that we had a quiet 2012 though, given the Diaspora and WCS releases.
-
Yeah, I read Axem's newsletters and in fact I don't believe that the community is "dying". I noticed less activity on the forums, and I'm asking why this happened.
-
The way the Wing Commander Saga board just fizzled out quickly after the release really surprises me.
-
I don't know if the forum is using a different way to count new posts or something, because the page views are what you would expect.
Perhaps there's just less to talk about these days. Many of the hosted forums get next to no activity or constructive discussion (except for BP, you show-offs!), which is kind of sad. Other than that, I could only say the quality of everything keeps going up. I'd rather have quality over quantity any day. :)
-
The way the Wing Commander Saga board just fizzled out quickly after the release really surprises me.
They had their own offsite forum they wanted everyone to use instead, which seems kind of dodgy to me.
-
I guess they didn't want to lose players to BP, WoD and Diaspora. :p
But in all honesty, I believe what happened was simply an awakening of sorts. Mods like Age of Aquarius and Wings of Dawn, which were +90% made by single man teams, showed that modding FSO needed to take some steps up in the quality department.
I don't think the community is dying, I think it's evolving.
-
Everyone's working on stuff instead of posting in silly threads!
-
I'm actually gonna point at our installer getting totally ****ed, if the timelines line up
-
I'd rather have quantity over quality any day. :)
We already have quantity. I'd rather more people played the hundred old campaigns we have, instead of entirely skipping them and then making more of the same old. I feel like headdesking when people want more "classic" campaigns but never play all the ones we already have !
The way the Wing Commander Saga board just fizzled out quickly after the release really surprises me.
They said literally : "HLP isn't our intended public". Good for them.
-
I'm pretty sure they meant that the people already on HLP weren't the only people they wanted to play their game. can't say I blame them, it was every bit as true for Diaspora.
-
And I'm pretty sure that's not at all what they meant.
-
Whatever.
Personally, I find that looking at the number of new users, or the number of new topics, or any of those statistical metrics (except possibly unique page views) tells you very little about the health of a community. HLP is output-oriented, much more like one of those "Nexus" sites that cater to the needs of the modders rather than the players.
It's by the output we should judge ourselves, and I think that due to the overall rise in quality we've seen over the past few years, people are more careful with regards to what they put out. It's like the frantic creativity of the early days has given way to a more deliberate, more considered pace, which is a development I find hard to evaluate in one way or another. Pros and Cons, you know.
Personally, I think that with the rising interest in space sims (Star Citizen, Strike Suit Zero.....), it is only natural that we as a rather FS-centric site may be losing a bit of traffic to those newer, flashier titles.
-
We all know the real reason guys...
I haven't been visiting any of the boards except gaming discussion for months. Without my glorious presence, this was inevitable.
-
Does the broken installer correlate with the decrease in interest with HLP?
-
Installer (what you mean) != Launcher
Personally, I am pretty sure that we've lost a few people because our install procedures aren't as straightforward as they could be.
-
Post corrected, thanks.
-
One thing I had noticed is that the Wing Commander Saga people stopped talking on their own board. But even if they disappeared, I would have thought something would have happened, Wing Commander isn't some obscure little thing, and I would have thought something would have sprung up anyway. Oh well, Deathsnake I think it is has something in the works.
-
*sigh*
Another one of these threads, huh?
I think I know how best to answer your question.
What happened to HLP (and the FreeSpace community in general) in 2012?
Well, I looked through your recent posts list. Looks like you missed 2012 completely.
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/mjnmixael/Private/ImageBin-13_zpsea4a2e26.jpg)
Ooops. Yeah, it's tough to judge a community when you leave it. But thanks for trying!
Here's how you can tell what's been going on rather than making these sort of threads again...
Newsletter #1 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=83249.0)
Newsletter #2 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=83574.0)
Newsletter #3 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=83881.0)
Now, as to the stats.
New topics from 2009 - 2011 are pretty much the same.. new posts has come down a bit.
New Members (skipping 2011 cause wut... that stat makes no sense), 2012 saw more new members than 2009 and 2008. 2010 saw a jump, who knows why.
Most online.. is similar to 2011 and waaaaay up from 2010 and previous.
Page views is up from 2005 to 2012.
I've ignored 2013 cause it's incomplete.
What are we worried about now? Looks to me like pretty average stats fluctuation. If anything, people are creating/playing/waiting/watching more and just talking less. But a lot of people are still visiting. Many people are still visiting regularly.. and (as the Newsletters clearly highlight) people are still creating A LOT of stuff. So I still have no idea where these threads keep coming from...
-
Excuse me mixael, but :wtf:? I made it clear in the very first post that this wasn't a "HLP is dying!!1!" thread. I haven't been pessimistic so far and all posts in this thread seem to point to various understandable reasons why forum activity has apparently reduced without influencing progress on mods. Where do you see this attempt to "judge the community"?
-
Well.. you pop in, having not posted for all of 2012, and ask why posts were down during 2012?
Perhaps you should tell us why people didn't post as much during 2012...
-
Well I think Mobius and Trashman between them (together with Snail) probably account for a fair percentage of that reduction. :p
I seem to remember Mobius having a much higher post rate than even I did. I only remained top poster cause I've been here much longer. Remember it's not just their posts we have to discount, it's also the replies. And there aren't many posters in the community quite as good at...ahem...provoking a discussion. ;)
-
Well I think Mobius and Trashman between them (together with Snail) probably account for a fair percentage of that reduction. :p
I seem to remember Mobius having a much higher post rate than even I did. I only remained top poster cause I've been here much longer. Remember it's not just their posts we have to discount, it's also the replies. And there aren't many posters in the community quite as good at...ahem...provoking a discussion. ;)
You've got me now though, eh, Karajorma? ;)
I guess I'll just have to work harder to pick up the slack... :D
-
I guess I'll just have to work harder to pick up the slack... :D
Maybe if you feel like getting monkeyed or something...
No seriously, if you want to emulate someone on these boards there are much better models, like Scotty or something. If you want to be integral to massive flamewars please use the exit.
-
I didn't post at all in 2012, either. I suppose that took another 187.758 posts off the total count... ;)
-
I guess I'll just have to work harder to pick up the slack... :D
Maybe if you feel like getting monkeyed or something...
No seriously, if you want to emulate someone on these boards there are much better models, like Scotty or something. If you want to be integral to massive flamewars please use the exit.
It is just a joke.
-
I suspect the Whatever happens in your life thread (and the what are you reading, listening to, etc) are responsible for a lot of new threads not being posted in Gen Dis
-
I didn't post at all in 2012, either. I suppose that took another 187.758 posts off the total count... ;)
A wild Nelson appeared! Throw a Pokeball before he escapes!
-
Well I think Mobius and Trashman between them (together with Snail) probably account for a fair percentage of that reduction. :p
I seem to remember Mobius having a much higher post rate than even I did. I only remained top poster cause I've been here much longer. Remember it's not just their posts we have to discount, it's also the replies. And there aren't many posters in the community quite as good at...ahem...provoking a discussion. ;)
iamzack was also a pretty big source of pretty lulzy threads as I recall.
-
Well I think Mobius and Trashman between them (together with Snail) probably account for a fair percentage of that reduction. :p
I seem to remember Mobius having a much higher post rate than even I did. I only remained top poster cause I've been here much longer. Remember it's not just their posts we have to discount, it's also the replies. And there aren't many posters in the community quite as good at...ahem...provoking a discussion. ;)
iamzack was also a pretty big source of pretty lulzy threads as I recall.
And then she got banned for necroing a ten-year old thread.
-
Well I think Mobius and Trashman between them (together with Snail) probably account for a fair percentage of that reduction. :p
I used to be very active in the old days...spent half the day on these forums. My post count skyrocketed and then....
Well, I'm not posting on Gen Discs anymore (which was a substantial portion), my campaign is on permanent hold (so I rarely visit FS modding forums)... And as of late I haven't been part of any HLP clan/server (for various reasons), which basicly means I drop by Gaming Discussion once or twice a day to see what's up and that's pretty much it.
I miss the old days. :blah:
Hell, I'm already sounding like an old fart.
-
Not only do I agree with MJN, I also find it a little bit snarky to post a topic on "why dafuq is the forum's so gettin empty" while at the same time saying "waywaywya I ain't sayin da forum is dyin, don' go mad at me ok?" :wtf:
-
Not only do I agree with MJN, I also find it a little bit snarky to post a topic on "why dafuq is the forum's so gettin empty" while at the same time saying "waywaywya I ain't sayin da forum is dyin, don' go mad at me ok?" :wtf:
Especially when the topic creator is one who wasn't around during the time he's complaining about... :doubt:
-
Well I think Mobius and Trashman between them (together with Snail) probably account for a fair percentage of that reduction. :p
I seem to remember Mobius having a much higher post rate than even I did. I only remained top poster cause I've been here much longer. Remember it's not just their posts we have to discount, it's also the replies. And there aren't many posters in the community quite as good at...ahem...provoking a discussion. ;)
iamzack was also a pretty big source of pretty lulzy threads as I recall.
And then she got banned for necroing a ten-year old thread.
Wait a minute, isn't that wrong to ban someone, I'm assuming permanently, for that?
-
So, what happened in 2012? Has HLP experienced any repeated blackouts which have reduced activity? [...] And yeah, before you ask, I noticed that many modders decided to stop working on their projects and reported it to the public. I don't see it as a bad sign, because IMHO there's really no difference between a dead mod supposedly being active and an actual dead and archived mod. It becomes a problem, however, when there are fewer and fewer new releases making up for it, but I hope this is not the case.
Again, guys, where's the pessimism you're talking about?
Especially when the topic creator is one who wasn't around during the time he's complaining about... :doubt:
I think the fact that I haven't been around last year (which is only partially correct: I haven't posted at all, but I visited HLP many times during 2012) perfectly explains why this thread exists. I ask questions about things which I don't know and have my own answers about things I know.
Had not been for this thread, I would have never known about this:
The way the Wing Commander Saga board just fizzled out quickly after the release really surprises me.
They had their own offsite forum they wanted everyone to use instead, which seems kind of dodgy to me.
I'm pretty sure they meant that the people already on HLP weren't the only people they wanted to play their game. can't say I blame them, it was every bit as true for Diaspora.
And this:
Does the broken installer correlate with the decrease in interest with HLP?
Installer (what you mean) != Launcher
Personally, I am pretty sure that we've lost a few people because our install procedures aren't as straightforward as they could be.
Answers to my question that not only justify the existence of this thread but also arise a couple of legitimate questions.
Wait a minute, isn't that wrong to ban someone, I'm assuming permanently, for that?
She did many other things, too.
-
Maybe I should have a look. She didn't last very long, 82 posts.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74569.msg1473973#msg1473973
It looks like she won't be missed.
-
Wait a minute, isn't that wrong to ban someone, I'm assuming permanently, for that?
Unless someone is doing something pretty stupid (like, say, post links to warez or similarly questionable stuff, or being a spambot), we will never ban at the first offence. There will always be an escalating series of warnings first.
Maybe I should have a look. She didn't last very long, 82 posts.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74569.msg1473973#msg1473973
It looks like she won't be missed.
....aaaand now you get a warning for thread derailment, Lorric. Because this topic is not about iaz.
-
Seriously? Dilmah G and Apollo both posted about iamzack in this thread before Lorric did.
EDIT: And while I'm at it, I think y'all are being a little too harsh on Mobius. He did include a disclaimer in his first post, and he made it clear that he's asking for information, not complaining. (Judging by the knee-jerk responses in this thread, I'd say "Is the community dying?" is the new "When is FS3 coming out?")
-
(Judging by the knee-jerk responses in this thread, I'd say "Is the community dying?" is the new "When is FS3 coming out?")
As it should be.
-
I'll own up to my part, I've been here longer than Lorric (I think?) and I should've known better than to drag her up again.
Anyway! Back on topic!
I didn't have the same reading of Mobius' OP as it appears other people have had. As far as my interpretation goes, it looked just like a 'guys, dis ain't gonn' be a y is hlp dyin oh no thread, but what happened in my absence and why are page views down?' post. Which I think is perfectly reasonable. It got explained pretty well on the first page too.
I actually am surprised that this was a comparatively quiet year, given, as BW pointed out earlier, we had the release of Diaspora and WCS. I was about to post about how I'd agree with people who say there's just not that much to discuss about the FS retail campaigns, and then I looked back through Gen FS. It's a shame we don't have people posting their theories on the Shivans anymore or the tactical discussions of old, or the general 'guys this is my favourite mission' threads. :( I can see how BP has become the platform for the execution of most of those discussions, though, and that's good. But I have to say that I miss them. I've been out of the loop regarding recent happenings in the FS world, and while part of me wants to talk of incentivising the replay of the FS campaigns to stimulate discussion on them, the other half of me sees how counterproductive that would be to allowing attention to be paid to our mod gems and asks myself the general question of 'how much good would that really be?' to which the answer I produce is 'not a whole lot, really'.
And that internal discussion really motivated me to play some FS, and then I remembered that I couldn't because it would take a grossly disproportionate amount of time, now that my desktop is nearing 7 years of age and runs Freespace as well as Michael Moore running a marathon.
/nostalgia
Edit: Just saw Axem's Vasudan porn/fsscreencap thread. Well done, that man! Also edit my fail /ing.
-
She didn't last very long, 82 posts.
Shouldn't be continuing this derailment but I felt the need to clear this up: posts in GenDisc don't count towards post count, so be careful when using that to judge how "long someone lasted".
Picking a random example, iaz has 211 pages worth of posts under "show posts", you have 44 pages, so she has about five times as many posts as you do in total (most of which are in gen disc). Of course, this can be skewed by posts in private forums not showing up in that count, while appearing in the overall post count displayed on the forum, but assuming no posts in private forums (no badges), the most accurate count of posts is the "Show Posts" page.
The aside aside,
So, what happened in 2012? Has HLP experienced any repeated blackouts which have reduced activity? How many campaigns and mods have been released? And yeah, before you ask, I noticed that many modders decided to stop working on their projects and reported it to the public. I don't see it as a bad sign, because IMHO there's really no difference between a dead mod supposedly being active and an actual dead and archived mod. It becomes a problem, however, when there are fewer and fewer new releases making up for it, but I hope this is not the case.
HLP had a few issues with the forums being down, but never more than a few days at a time.
For every mod that's packed up and declared themselves dead another has put out a release, and I think there's actually been an increased in releases compared to 2011 (?) don't quote me on that, though. I really haven't felt a noticable lull in releases at all, in fact there's been quite a few big ones (WCS, Diaspora, BP etc...)
(Judging by the knee-jerk responses in this thread, I'd say "Is the community dying?" is the new "When is FS3 coming out?")
As it should be.
Please...
-
(Judging by the knee-jerk responses in this thread, I'd say "Is the community dying?" is the new "When is FS3 coming out?")
As it should be.
no, it shouldn't. the angry responses are at best just as bad as the question. for my money, they are WAY worse. i would rather politely answer such questions myself fifty times than read someone else blowing up once.
-
Seriously? Dilmah G and Apollo both posted about iamzack in this thread before Lorric did.
Well that escalated quickly....
-
(Judging by the knee-jerk responses in this thread, I'd say "Is the community dying?" is the new "When is FS3 coming out?")
As it should be.
That's a fair assessment. :) I too got carried away :D
-
the HLP is dying threads have really started to bug me over the last year or so :rolleyes: :o
-
Nearly 50 replies and nearly 1000 views in less than a week.
Guess we're all here, and this is just the "flavor of the month".
How about discussing some FS related things in the next big topic for a change?
-
WTB fully working installer (I know it's being worked on, but I truly think it will be a big help).
-
WTB fully working installer (I know it's being worked on, but I truly think it will be a big help).
Upvote
Edit-- Also, someone mentioned earlier that HLP is more geared to developers, and while I tend to agree, I don't think it's in any way not consumer friendly as well. I'm a 1000% consumer, and HLP is my homepage haha.
-
as it just so happens
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80604.msg1679468#msg1679468
-
She didn't last very long, 82 posts.
Shouldn't be continuing this derailment but I felt the need to clear this up: posts in GenDisc don't count towards post count, so be careful when using that to judge how "long someone lasted".
Picking a random example, iaz has 211 pages worth of posts under "show posts", you have 44 pages, so she has about five times as many posts as you do in total (most of which are in gen disc). Of course, this can be skewed by posts in private forums not showing up in that count, while appearing in the overall post count displayed on the forum, but assuming no posts in private forums (no badges), the most accurate count of posts is the "Show Posts" page.
Thanks for that.
Why are General Discussion posts not counted? Is it only Freespace related posts that are counted? Would that mean the Gaming Discussion topic is not counted maybe also?
-
GD posts do not count because they're off-topic for the board as a whole. HLP is a modding site first and foremost, other stuff doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
-
GD posts do not count because they're off-topic for the board as a whole. HLP is a modding site first and foremost, other stuff doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Thanks.
-
Hey Folks! LTNS Eh?
My excuse was I got busy in real life and didn't have as much time to do all the skins for Teeth of the Tiger like I was going too. One daughter is now on her own, my other daughter is almost out on her own now too. Plus I got real serious working on my Aviation Art Profiles as well. :D
Believe me fellas, I do miss this place and miss playing the Freespace games. I am on the same computer I had almost 10 years ago and wont be able to get a new one until sometime next year and until then, no game play for anything what so ever. :nono:
With what I have learned and done for my Aviation art Profiles, I would love to return and apply them to the skins here.
Until then, I cant do much, but I DO return here once in awhile and try to keep current on things.
So keep the Freespace Universe alive and going folks! :yes:
Brandon S (Jadehawk)
-
Well, TotT will quite likely have a few textures to get fixed. I still suck. :P
The fleet (and maybe even missions) will be pretty much done by next year though.