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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: starbug on March 19, 2013, 02:21:31 pm

Title: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: starbug on March 19, 2013, 02:21:31 pm
Well not suprising that Blizzard have released info on the final part of the Starcraft 2 trilogy. Chris Metzen has likened the story to that of the film 300, with a small force engaging a much more powerful one in a desperate last stand. The storyline will conclude the StarCraft II trilogy.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Starcraft-2-Legacy-of-the-Void-Is-Similar-to-300-Says-Game-Director-338269.shtml

As the title suggests the focus will be on zeratul and the protoss holding the line against the coming darkness, but will also feature Raynor, Kerrigan and Valerian Mengsk.

Blizzard has also said that it hopes to get the third part out quicker as they aren't planning to add new units to multiplayer, but new units will be added to the singleplayer campaign. They have also hinted at, as with HotS adding the abliltiy to make the high quality ingame cinematics in the editor, LoftV will add a proper campaign feature to allow players to make their own campaigns(they should of done this with WoL).

I know people didn't like any of SC2, but i have loved it and i honestly can't wait for the final part to come out.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: BloodEagle on March 19, 2013, 03:29:55 pm
Quote
Chris Metzen has likened the story to that of the film 300

 :banghead:

Ignore me, the rage will pass, and discussing the why will not bring anyone closer to becoming The Transcendent.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 19, 2013, 07:02:13 pm
Quote
Chris Metzen has likened the story to that of the film 300

That's not as bad as the Empire Strikes Back comparison ...
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 19, 2013, 09:20:56 pm
Ignore me, the rage will pass, and discussing the why will not bring anyone closer to becoming The Transcendent.

But it might help you ascend to the Invisible Clergy as The Critic Martyr.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: An4ximandros on March 19, 2013, 10:30:34 pm
Ignore me, the rage will pass, and discussing the why will not bring anyone closer to becoming The Transcendent.
Your anger will certainly guide others to you though... :warp:
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 20, 2013, 09:25:39 pm
Out of genuine curiosity though, who here is actually considering the purchase of this game and why do they?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Aardwolf on March 20, 2013, 10:28:49 pm
I'll probably get it after I eventually get HotS. I wanna hear the rest of the story. Screw you literary types.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 20, 2013, 10:30:48 pm
I'll probably get it after I eventually get HotS. I wanna hear the rest of the story. Screw you literary types.

It doesn't so much take a 'literary type' to feel physical pain at the writing in HotS as it does a 'literate type'

e: You can hear the rest of the story by playing Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 20, 2013, 11:04:36 pm
Ahahaha the design for female Protoss is 'bare midriff'
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 20, 2013, 11:32:08 pm
Ahahaha the design for female Protoss is 'bare midriff'

Now hold up, that's been Protoss design in general since the first concept designs for the Zealot hit back in the days of developing the first game. Be that fair at least.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Suongadon on March 20, 2013, 11:53:07 pm
Out of genuine curiosity though, who here is actually considering the purchase of this game and why do they?

My kids like playing it, and being the internet-savvy spawn they are, they already know it is being made, so I either buy it, or listen to them whine about it for weeks. Plus, it can't be any worse than HotS, and I spent money on that ****. 
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: deathfun on March 21, 2013, 12:23:36 am
Out of genuine curiosity though, who here is actually considering the purchase of this game and why do they?

I like the gameplay so I'll eventually pick up them both up down the line. I don't find the story deplorable to the point it's not worth getting the game for either.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 21, 2013, 02:18:12 am
Out of genuine curiosity though, who here is actually considering the purchase of this game and why do they?

I will get but either not at launch or without paying anything for it (that is not saying I'm going to pirate it; it's a "vitamin c"-thing ;) )
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: starbug on March 21, 2013, 06:34:45 am
Quote
Out of genuine curiosity though, who here is actually considering the purchase of this game and why do they?

I will, for 2 reasons. First of i have SC1, Brood war, WoL and HotS i want to see how the story end and i am a completionist. Second i am a Starcraft fan, i love the SC universe and lore. I know WoL and HotS storylines, are hollywood cheesy but i like them, But the missions themselves are well varied, its not just always build a base and destroy the enemy base like other strategy games. Also people have complained that its still old school, well i like old school, i would rather play original Doom over Call of Duty any day. So even if its bad i will still get it to complete the story. I did the same with Deadspace, 1 absolute classic, 2 not as good as one lost some of the horror. 3 just an average shooter with no horror and an ending that makes ME3 ending a masterpiece. I still got them though as i wanted to see the story through and its the samething with starcraft except i have enjoyed WoL and HotS. if that makes any kind of sense.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Spoon on March 21, 2013, 07:09:27 am
Ahahaha the design for female Protoss is 'bare midriff'

Now hold up, that's been Protoss design in general since the first concept designs for the Zealot hit back in the days of developing the first game. Be that fair at least.
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/5/52/Zealot_SC1_Art1.jpg
What NGTM-1R said.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 21, 2013, 09:08:58 am
Ahahaha the design for female Protoss is 'bare midriff'

Now hold up, that's been Protoss design in general since the first concept designs for the Zealot hit back in the days of developing the first game. Be that fair at least.
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/5/52/Zealot_SC1_Art1.jpg
What NGTM-1R said.

That guy doesn't even have a midriff, it is not particularly the same
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: StarSlayer on March 21, 2013, 09:44:02 am
Ahahaha the design for female Protoss is 'bare midriff'

Now hold up, that's been Protoss design in general since the first concept designs for the Zealot hit back in the days of developing the first game. Be that fair at least.
http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/5/52/Zealot_SC1_Art1.jpg
What NGTM-1R said.

That guy doesn't even have a midriff, it is not particularly the same

Do you have a link to the aforementioned female Protoss? 
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 21, 2013, 09:46:49 am
She's even got a wee belly button :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=haCzrILCWHI#t=113s
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: MP-Ryan on March 21, 2013, 10:20:22 am
I still have to wait for HotS to go on sale for a ridiculously cheap price.  Mostly because I enjoy the SP gameplay and I'd like to see firsthand how badly Blizzard has ****ed up the story.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: StarSlayer on March 21, 2013, 10:27:03 am
I still have to wait for HotS to go on sale for a ridiculously cheap price.  Mostly because I enjoy the SP gameplay and I'd like to see firsthand how badly Blizzard has ****ed up the story.

(http://plumblines.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/2090259627_49e9d02942.jpg)
You're tearing me apart Darlin'!!
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Spoon on March 21, 2013, 12:38:00 pm
She's even got a wee belly button :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=haCzrILCWHI#t=113s
I... I'd hit it...


Don't judge me  :nervous:
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Spoon on March 21, 2013, 12:51:12 pm
Actually, lets go even further down that path.

"Hey babe, I heard you are in need of additional pylons. Let me show you mine."
"Oh my, I see the Carrier has arrived. Allow me to dock my interceptor."
"Heya, allow me to be your Stalker"
"So hey, wanna form an Archon with me?"
"Wanna see where I keep my third psi blade?"
"Hellooo there, wanna come to my robotics facility? I'll show you my Colossus. No, you don't have to worry about that Observer, it's not like I'll put this onto the warp for all to see or anything."


I regret nothing

Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: StarSlayer on March 21, 2013, 12:58:21 pm
She's even got a wee belly button :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=haCzrILCWHI#t=113s

While I'm probably giving Blizzard too much credit, as a captive they probably would have stripped the prisoner of her armor and gear.  Though I admit they probably did it so she would look more attractive and Spoon would want to hit it.  Course, let me guess they probably threw cannon anatomical fluff about Protoss out the window as well?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: An4ximandros on March 21, 2013, 01:32:49 pm
Though I admit they probably did it so she would look more attractive and Spoon would want to Spoon it.  Course, let me guess they probably threw cannon anatomical fluff about Protoss out the window as well?
Fixed.  ;)

 Ahem. watching the videos, am I the only one who's reminded of the Ur-Quan from the science bug? He sounds like a deeper green one to me. Maybe I should just go to bed...

 Aside, holy crap. HotS is bad. I wounder how much worse they can make the story?
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 21, 2013, 01:51:24 pm
If they're openly admitting to using 300 as a source of inspiration for their plot, a lot, lot worse.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 21, 2013, 03:34:19 pm
Aside, holy crap. HotS is bad. I wounder how much worse they can make the story?

They showed you in WoL ... the whole 300 moment is acutally there already ...

EDIT: Post number 1500 (I'm here far too often)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Dark RevenantX on March 22, 2013, 04:13:32 pm
If they make it bad enough, it'll be worth buying for the potential humor.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 22, 2013, 04:17:35 pm
I'd say wait for the memesplosion, but that only happens with good enjoyable games. :lol:
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Suongadon on March 22, 2013, 05:12:32 pm
Am I the only one who thinks using 300 for inspiration would be an improvement?

and I don't mean cause of the oiled up man boobs. Mostly.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: An4ximandros on March 22, 2013, 05:17:15 pm
 Tonight, we dine... in the void!
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Luis Dias on March 22, 2013, 07:25:12 pm
Worrying about Starcraft's story is like worrying about Command n Conquer's story.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: An4ximandros on March 22, 2013, 08:41:11 pm
 It's disappointing when any franchise violates it's own continuity and does not even bother to explain it.
 And then there's choosing 300 as a quality standard...

 At least LoV will be nice Youtube movie to keep me entertained on a slow day.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: DarkBasilisk on March 22, 2013, 10:22:19 pm
What i don't get is a number of the random in-universe books were actually *good*. Why u no fire your writing stuff and get the book writers to do the story instead? *rams head against wall repeatedly*
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Hades on March 23, 2013, 01:16:18 am
What i don't get is a number of the random in-universe books were actually *good*. Why u no fire your writing stuff and get the book writers to do the story instead? *rams head against wall repeatedly*
Could ask Bungie the same thing when making Reach, actually
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 23, 2013, 02:53:53 am
And then there's choosing 300 as a quality standard...

I did he see the same interview? - He never talked about quality standard, it was an analogy to how the story will work out (I still think its going to be the "All Protoss die"-mission from WoL all over again but with Kerrigan swooping in the save the day at the end) ... nowhere nothing was said about no quality standard (and I rather think Blizzard stopped having those after WoW)

Worrying about Starcraft's story is like worrying about Command n Conquer's story.

EDIT2: If you are pointing out that the good of both IPs was there gameplay and the story just the glue for gameplay sequences, than a) point taken and b) that's so your opinion

I going to paint me as a target now ... but the C&C Tiberium story never ever was that badly narrated as StarCraft II comes along ...
There were some akward moments when things suddenly got away from what was previously established without as much as warning (the Tacitus, the Scryn, Kane working with the GDI) but never ever was the story truely inconsistant with itself, the red tape is always there (it made leaps and esspecially Tiberian Twilight throws a lot of things overboard we would have expected, but there is always a reason for that to be found)

EDIT: a lot of blame can be placed on Tiberium Twilight because they pressed just too much **** into it, espeically that the change in gameplay does make sense in the grand sceme of the Tiberium story but it is never really pointed out ("there is no longer any basebuilding" "why?" "cause our planet was practically no longer habitable") and screws up the perception on what is going on here.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: wistler on March 23, 2013, 05:11:47 am
Im looking to buy WOL, if the storylines poo is the gameplay at least good? I don't remember the storyline of SC1 being all that great.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 23, 2013, 06:13:16 am
Im looking to buy WOL, if the storylines poo is the gameplay at least good? I don't remember the storyline of SC1 being all that great.

The gameplay is the same as StarCraft except for a few unit swaps/new units (acutally in the campaign you get almost all SC1 (the Valkyire is absent, and you can choose wheter or not to have Ghosts/Science Vessels) units plus some new ones)

(and on a side note the only thing screwing up the story are the Protoss mini arc (which is a detour into fanatasy), the inconsistant presentation of Raynor and that for everyone but the Protoss Brood War appearently neven happened)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Luis Dias on March 23, 2013, 06:23:42 am
EDIT2: If you are pointing out that the good of both IPs was there gameplay and the story just the glue for gameplay sequences, than a) point taken and b) that's so your opinion

I find your lack of faith in C&C's lore disturbing!

I didn't say there is no "lore", I say it's the same kind of lore, deserving the same kind of respect. If that **** rocks your boat...
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 23, 2013, 06:36:34 am
EDIT2: If you are pointing out that the good of both IPs was there gameplay and the story just the glue for gameplay sequences, than a) point taken and b) that's so your opinion

I find your lack of faith in C&C's lore disturbing!

Where did I say that I never cared about the story/lore of C&C (Tiberium I mean by that, always; Red Alert is another story, Generals is just plain **** unworthy of reckongition for anything)? - I mearly interpreted your statement as "come on, stop worrying about it 'cause story isn't why we play this", a statement which I disagree with.

I liked and cared about the story of C&C Tiberium and despite some "jumps" from Wars to Twilight it really got a better treatment than what Blizzard has done moving on from SC & BW to SC2 withto their own IP...

EDIT: To further my point:
Spoiler:
Exhibit a:
Everything Kane does from Tiberian Sun to Wars to Twilight (even covering all of Earth with f*cking poisious Tiberium for the Nod Ending of Sun) follows a certain logic if you go from the end of Twilight: Kane wants to get off Earth (to parts unknown) and the obviously the easiest way to do that is a Scyrn Tower which needs to be powered with huge quanteties of Tiberium, so he creates a cult worshiping Tiberium, so inhibiting the GDI's efforts to contain the Tiberium outbreak, he steals the Tacitus (a Scyrn libarty with all information about the Scyrn and Tiberium as it appears at the end of Kane's Wrath) from a crashed Scyrn ship, creates a giant Tiberium bomb that would create a sort of signal fire for the Scyrn, arragnes for the GDI to detonate it, and than captues one of the Scyrn Towers. Later he goes to the GDI to make a joint operation happen that will clear Earth of the Tiberium and power the Tower, so Kane can get the hell of Earth.
There is a consitency and logic to it. EVEN AT THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE USUALLY SAY EA SCREWD UP THE FRANCISE! SO DON'T TELL ME EA F*CKED UP C&C TIBERIUM!


Exhibit b:
Raynor in SC joins up with the Sons of Korhal because the Confederacy is more interested with turning the Zerg into weapon that saving their people. Seeing Mensk doing the same Raynor leaves. He later joins up with Tassadar and Fenix to destroy the Overmind and thus save humanity because the protoss can just do that thanks to Zeratul. In Brood War he saves Mensk from UED because Mensk is the best shot to ralley humanity against another oppressive regime that would turn the Zerg into a bioweapon. He even colloborates with Kerrigan because that way the UED will not have the Zerg was their weapon.
In SC2:WoL Raynor begins as scarred but determined to fight Mensk and finally settle the old score with him. But suddenly along comes the Queen of Blades at the head of invasion force and Raynor, well knowning who that is, what she has done, looses his sh*t. And then comes Zeratul telling him in a round-about fashion "do kill Kerrigan" with nothing but "yeah, we will all die because I read it on a tablet in an ancient temple unless you spare Kerrigan". And then comes the whole "I give you the chance to make Kerrigan human again"-thing and Raynor obviously forgets who the Queen of Blades is/what she has done/etc etc pp and just thinks about humping Kerrigan again.
HotS puts a bit of logic back into him by following the lovestory pattern established at the end of WoL but again cares nothing for connecting back to SC or BW but in shout-out "you killed my friend" without any strings attached.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: deathfun on March 23, 2013, 06:55:18 am
Im looking to buy WOL, if the storylines poo is the gameplay at least good? I don't remember the storyline of SC1 being all that great.

The gameplay is the same as StarCraft except for a few unit swaps/new units (acutally in the campaign you get almost all SC1 (the Valkyire is absent, and you can choose wheter or not to have Ghosts/Science Vessels) units plus some new ones)

(and on a side note the only thing screwing up the story are the Protoss mini arc (which is a detour into fanatasy), the inconsistant presentation of Raynor and that for everyone but the Protoss Brood War appearently neven happened)

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/188789447
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Spoon on March 23, 2013, 07:37:53 am
Im looking to buy WOL, if the storylines poo is the gameplay at least good? I don't remember the storyline of SC1 being all that great.
The gameplay is great
The campaign itself has a lot of variety in its missions and never gets stale
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Scourge of Ages on March 23, 2013, 10:36:31 am
Spoiler:
And then comes the whole "I give you the chance to make Kerrigan human again"-thing and Raynor obviously forgets who the Queen of Blades is/what she has done/etc etc pp and just thinks about humping Kerrigan again.
HotS puts a bit of logic back into him by following the lovestory pattern established at the end of WoL but again cares nothing for connecting back to SC or BW but in shout-out "you killed my friend" without any strings attached.

(http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/976) (http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/976)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: An4ximandros on March 23, 2013, 11:16:38 am
 That comic. Fecking genius.

As for the off-topic C&C story disc. It ends in the Nod ending of Tib Sun, so I do not get the problems here. ;) (Could it be moved to a new thread please?)
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: wistler on March 23, 2013, 05:36:26 pm
My favourite story in a RTS is still World In Conflict. That was a RTS that made me care.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Spoon on March 23, 2013, 10:16:01 pm
My favourite story in a RTS is still World In Conflict. That was a RTS that made me care.
As a non american, I found it hard to really care.
And the (voice)acting kinda became tiresome after a while in WiC.

Doesnt take away that it was a great game imho though.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: An4ximandros on March 24, 2013, 01:00:09 pm
 It is hard to find any RTS/RTT game that makes you care for the characters or the setting. There is a huge disconnection caused by the way the gameplay is done: "They blew up that factory with all the workers inside? No problem! Just queue up another one."

 The gameplay & the story must work together to make us want to care. RTS/RTTs are bad at this simply because of their mechanics, or at least their execution is not well done.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 24, 2013, 01:26:16 pm
It is hard to find any RTS/RTT game that makes you care for the characters or the setting. There is a huge disconnection caused by the way the gameplay is done: "They blew up that factory with all the workers inside? No problem! Just queue up another one."

 The gameplay & the story must work together to make us want to care. RTS/RTTs are bad at this simply because of their mechanics, or at least their execution is not well done.

Homeworld, Ground Control 2, MechCommander, XCOM
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: BloodEagle on March 24, 2013, 01:32:24 pm
Ground Control 2 had terrible gameplay compared to the first.  I actually couldn't finish it because it was so bad.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: IronBeer on March 24, 2013, 01:43:25 pm
XCOM (old, but especially new) is one of the few strategy games that truly made me care for the lives of my troops, above and beyond simple loss management. The only other strategy/tactics game I can readily recall that also has that "caring potential" is the Fire Emblem series.

OT: StarCraft definitely doesn't have that same feeling, except for the hero units in the campaigns. Hell, some matchups basically require sacrificing your units to win (Zerg v. Protoss, anybody?).
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: An4ximandros on March 24, 2013, 01:49:52 pm
Homeworld, Ground Control 2, MechCommander, XCOM

 Homeworld: Only cared about banana ship.
 GC2: Never played it so I can't say.
 MechCommander: Never gave a damn except about m1n3 l33t p1lot5
 XCOM: Never played it. From what I've seen it's one of the games that pulls it right, with the full customization the players they develop a bond to their squads.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 24, 2013, 01:50:31 pm
Ground Control 2 had terrible gameplay compared to the first.  I actually couldn't finish it because it was so bad.

I finished them both! Your definition of 'terrible' is unfortunately pretty terrible - they each had their strengths

Homeworld, Ground Control 2, MechCommander, XCOM

 Homeworld: Only cared about banana ship.
 GC2: Never played it so I can't say.
 MechCommander: Never gave a damn except about m1n3 l33t p1lot5
 XCOM: Never played it. From what I've seen it's one of the games that pulls it right, with the full customization the players they develop a bond to their squads.

In other words 'point conceded'; thanks
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: An4ximandros on March 24, 2013, 01:55:01 pm
 They are exceptions over the rule. You get that, right? 4‱
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Scourge of Ages on March 24, 2013, 02:03:04 pm
Oh, also Cyberstorm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MissionForce:_CyberStorm) was a mech tactics game that made you start to care about your pilots, in much the same way that XCOM did.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 24, 2013, 02:09:20 pm
They are exceptions over the rule. You get that, right? 4‱

The 'rule' is wrong; there are no structural impediments to an RTS making you care about its characters or story. In fact they're ripe for the kind of emergent narrative that really gets people attached to their units. The problem is simply that most designers don't leverage this space.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 24, 2013, 02:30:30 pm
They are exceptions over the rule. You get that, right? 4‱

Even something as impersonalized as Harpoon you can get very attached to effective or lucky units. (And Harpoon is ultra-impersonalized.) The little computer guys, they're fighting for you, and that's a very powerful motivator to make you care. RTS/TBS/RTT have a huge advantage to make you care about such things.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: BloodEagle on March 24, 2013, 02:45:16 pm
Ground Control 2 had terrible gameplay compared to the first.  I actually couldn't finish it because it was so bad.

I finished them both! Your definition of 'terrible' is unfortunately pretty terrible - they each had their strengths

I suppose if I'd played them out of order I would have given the second one more of a chance.  But I was expecting good, in-depth, tactically sound gameplay as per the first and got rote C&C/SC/Whatever ZERG-****ING-RUSH instead, which is something I've never enjoyed.

So, yeah. The second game's gameplay sucked compared to the first.  (yay, opinions!)

---

On the topic of getting the player to care about characters (or units) in RTSs, the first Ground Control did that pretty well.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Suongadon on March 24, 2013, 02:50:21 pm
Oh, also Cyberstorm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MissionForce:_CyberStorm) was a mech tactics game that made you start to care about your pilots, in much the same way that XCOM did.

Care like 'yo, this cloned-cannon-fodder-slave-soldiers **** is a really really bad idea', or care like 'I can't lose Naj-Zero cause he's the bestest cybrid slaying superman ever, i'ma gonna throw the rest of them at that Nihilus so he doesn't die?'


Also: No mention of dawn of war? Speess Mariness!
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 24, 2013, 03:02:40 pm
They are exceptions over the rule. You get that, right? 4‱

Even something as impersonalized as Harpoon you can get very attached to effective or lucky units. (And Harpoon is ultra-impersonalized.) The little computer guys, they're fighting for you, and that's a very powerful motivator to make you care. RTS/TBS/RTT have a huge advantage to make you care about such things.

Nanuchka III Glint o7 o7 o7
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: General Battuta on March 24, 2013, 03:07:11 pm
Ground Control 2 had terrible gameplay compared to the first.  I actually couldn't finish it because it was so bad.

I finished them both! Your definition of 'terrible' is unfortunately pretty terrible - they each had their strengths

I suppose if I'd played them out of order I would have given the second one more of a chance.  But I was expecting good, in-depth, tactically sound gameplay as per the first and got rote C&C/SC/Whatever ZERG-****ING-RUSH instead, which is something I've never enjoyed.

So, yeah. The second game's gameplay sucked compared to the first.  (yay, opinions!)

They weren't as spectacularly different as you want them to be. In comparison the first was notable mostly for being staggeringly easy once you had its basic loop down. The second wasn't super hard either but at least wasn't as trivially broken over your knee.

I spent a lot of hours on both of them but would have trouble picking a clear favorite.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: StarSlayer on March 24, 2013, 05:56:55 pm
I was super mournful when one of my M60 Rise Pattons, who had fought hard and leveled to max veterancy over the course of the entire multi match, ate an ATGM in the last minute of the game.  AH-64s burninated the som'***** responsible and the match was won but my enrampagement for Sgt. Lopez and his tank crew was not slaked.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: wistler on March 25, 2013, 03:00:57 am
I think I preferred GC2 gameplay for the fact you could call in fresh troops which made the game less about trying to keep every unit alive and freed up the fun.
Could have done without the aliens though.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 25, 2013, 03:33:22 am
It is hard to find any RTS/RTT game that makes you care for the characters or the setting. There is a huge disconnection caused by the way the gameplay is done: "They blew up that factory with all the workers inside? No problem! Just queue up another one."

 The gameplay & the story must work together to make us want to care. RTS/RTTs are bad at this simply because of their mechanics, or at least their execution is not well done.

Supreme Commander and Forged Alliance - Cybran Nation FTW!

Universe at War: Earth Assault; though here the Hirarchy campaign only (others were really meh, and the game balance is really off sometimes)

It is hard to find any RTS/RTT game that makes you care for the characters or the setting. There is a huge disconnection caused by the way the gameplay is done: "They blew up that factory with all the workers inside? No problem! Just queue up another one."

 The gameplay & the story must work together to make us want to care. RTS/RTTs are bad at this simply because of their mechanics, or at least their execution is not well done.

Homeworld, Ground Control 2, MechCommander, XCOM

+1

Second everything Batts said about GC/GC2

They are exceptions over the rule. You get that, right? 4‱

The 'rule' is wrong; there are no structural impediments to an RTS making you care about its characters or story. In fact they're ripe for the kind of emergent narrative that really gets people attached to their units. The problem is simply that most designers don't leverage this space.

+1

I think I preferred GC2 gameplay for the fact you could call in fresh troops which made the game less about trying to keep every unit alive and freed up the fun.

I have the opposite reaction ... Leveling up my Hoverdynes and keeping them alive really added depth to the gameplay I found lacking in GC2 (and keeping units alive wasn't that hard 'cause as soon as got artiellery you simply shell the sh*t out of anything that could be an enemy position in advance and then roll ini)

Also: No mention of dawn of war? Speess Mariness!

SI (http://youtu.be/vn79FQ7CdPQ?t=56s) ND (http://youtu.be/BZzbAaHHidg) RI (http://youtu.be/c2ujVI5CPjk) !! (http://youtu.be/wqd4U-BGQPw?t=1m41s)
And that's about it you can like about DoW1/DoW2/DoW2:Ret (and that from a WH40k fan)

DoW2:Chaos Rising was very good though ... however it is more RPG'ish than RTS'ish
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 25, 2013, 07:00:00 am
Nanuchka III Glint o7 o7 o7

One of the happiest memories I have of gaming in general was finally finding a way to save the USS Thorn in Fortress Keflavik.

o7 to the SH-60s. It took two years, but we got that damn Victor III first.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: redsniper on March 25, 2013, 04:55:31 pm
Kharak is burning...
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Scourge of Ages on March 25, 2013, 04:59:03 pm
Care like 'yo, this cloned-cannon-fodder-slave-soldiers **** is a really really bad idea', or care like 'I can't lose Naj-Zero cause he's the bestest cybrid slaying superman ever, i'ma gonna throw the rest of them at that Nihilus so he doesn't die?'

Er, the second one. Even though the first thing is true, they're still your dudes, you get a little attached.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: bigchunk1 on March 26, 2013, 11:56:38 am
Out of genuine curiosity though, who here is actually considering the purchase of this game and why do they?

Eh, no multiplayer changes? A more rapid release? I think I might pass on this one unless they drop the price to something like $15.



RTS games can have good stories. I think WIC is a good example. I genuinely cared for that story, regardless of how believable a russian invasion was, it was really well executed. Even the soviet assault expansion was good, and in some ways it was better.

I also liked company of heroes. When you're out of ideas for a story, history is usually a good place to find one. I am really anticipating the release of COH2. I think it will be good. 
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: Mongoose on March 26, 2013, 01:11:50 pm
I rather enjoyed the story of Age of Mythology myself.  It was basically a big goofy crossover fanfic of Greek, Egyptian, and Norse mythology.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 26, 2013, 01:44:59 pm
When you're out of ideas for a story, history is usually a good place to find one.

If you enjoy getting yourself caught in a web of bias, favourism, chauvinism and authenticity debates, then yes.
Title: Re: Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Info released
Post by: bigchunk1 on March 26, 2013, 04:19:23 pm
When you're out of ideas for a story, history is usually a good place to find one.

If you enjoy getting yourself caught in a web of bias, favourism, chauvinism and authenticity debates, then yes.

I didn't say it had to be true.