Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lorric on April 05, 2013, 01:40:57 pm
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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-dies-sleeping-rough-cold-documentary-160214729.html#9phourr
I'm at a loss on how I should feel about this. Obviously it's sad that it happened to someone having the courage to try and make a difference like that, and at 27 years old.
R.I.P Lee Halpin.
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This is going to sound callous, but this seems more like candidacy for a Darwin Award to me, especially considering the final sentences of the article (arrests).
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This is going to sound callous, but this seems more like candidacy for a Darwin Award to me, especially considering the final sentences of the article (arrests).
Did you watch the video? (I wonder if it's available to everyone also).
It mentions that bit only as a footnote at the end, and he just seems like a switched on guy to me in that video. And also, if he's filming himself, he's not going to make an impression if he's on drugs. For all we know, it could have been something he filmed on camera that caused those arrests.
Anyway, it's had some time to sink in, and I am saddened by it. What he said about his family and friends in the video go to me as well.
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There's a more depthy article here with a comments section:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304443/Lee-Halpin-Filmmaker-27-freezes-death-sleeps-rough-make-documentary-homelessness.html
Again, like the first one, it ends with a quick mention on the arrests. There's also one on the BBC that basically mentions the arrests, but nothing more.
There's another here which starts with news of the arrests, and states it was a class A drug:
http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/62338/police-make-drugs-arrests-over-film-maker-lee-halpin-who-froze
But also, since he was supposed to be scrounging for food, how is he going to be buying drugs? Drugs are expensive. If it turns out he was on drugs, well, so be it. But it just doesn't add up to me.
Another interesting question is if he was on drugs, does it diminish what he was trying to do?
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Sorry, but my opinion doesn't really improve if drugs weren't involved, either.
By all accounts this is a reasonably-educated young man undertaking what amounts to a political activity with a known element of moderate-to-serious risk, apparently without adequate preparation to ensure his own well-being. The consequences are no one's fault but his own, and I don't find his actions particularly laudable.
Look at this from another perspective - emergency services are already overworked, underpaid, and highly-stressed. You think they really enjoyed the prospect of another dead kid, another coroner's case, another criminal investigation, more grieving family and friends to deal with?
There are ways to do socially-motivated experiments safely, and ways to do them foolishly. This individual apparently chose the latter.
FYI: I live in a city where university students annually live outside like the homeless in temperatures between -15°C and -25°C for a few days/nights a year to bring attention to this social issue. None of them have died or been injured in the process. All of them did it the safe way.
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In addition, just what has he managed to accomplish with his death other than the headache that Ryan mentioned? Wouldn't he have been far better off using his fortunate station in life to actually help these people, instead of becoming yet another statistic?
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Another interesting question is if he was on drugs, does it diminish what he was trying to do?
RIP, but he should have tried harder. Like, do some research, take some precautions. Now it looks like he ignored the problems he was supposed to report about.
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Ooooh, hard-hearted ones, aren't you.
Surely his death will give some power to what he was trying to do. It's got some attention in the media. And maybe he'll have caught some good footage over 3 days too to still make something perhaps.
So the emergency services had to clean up one extra body. But how many bodies might something like this potentially save them cleaning up?
I can certainly get on board with a "well, he knew the risks" idea, which was a big part of me being torn on how to feel about it.
How do you know he had a fortunate station in life? Did I miss something? Sounds like just a man to me, not someone in a position to change anything with money.
It wasn't supposed to be "safe" though, that's the thing. It was supposed to be as real as possible.
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How many deaths can his death prevent? 0 to infinite.
How many deaths would have been prevented had he done this safely? 1 to infinite.
Net difference: 1 life.
So the emergency services had to clean up one extra body.
This attitude tells me you have no personal experience with emergency services or someone working in them. That one extra body is a big ****ing deal to the people who have to deal with it.
You can be "as real as possible" and still take basic safety precautions. From the articles, it sounds like his logistical preparation was near-zero.
I'm not hard-hearted, I'm tired of well-meaning idealist people with it-can-happen-to-me-itis winding up dead and bringing along all that comes with that event because they were stupid or ignorant. The plight of the homeless in particular is galling, but it is not improved whatsoever by some ideologue getting in over his head and dying while trying to report on with the goal of improving that plight. If that makes me sound callous, so be it.
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How many deaths can his death prevent? 0 to infinite.
How many deaths would have been prevented had he done this safely? 1 to infinite.
Net difference: 1 life.
So the emergency services had to clean up one extra body.
This attitude tells me you have no personal experience with emergency services or someone working in them. That one extra body is a big ****ing deal to the people who have to deal with it.
No, that's not what I mean, I know they don't just put it in a zipper bag and drive it off to the morgue and that's it, what I mean is he was trying to make sure there are less bodies and less sick people to deal with, and still might do. It's one body vs. potentially a lot of bodies.
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Or potentially zero change. That's the point. His death has assured nothing but all the things that come with any death.
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Or potentially zero change. That's the point. His death has assured nothing but all the things that come with any death.
But there are so many ways it could promote change. All it has to do is save a single life to restore the balance, and has potential to go way over that.
Consider if the footage is released, and not one single person takes action. It could still have the effect of showing a future homeless person the realities of the situation, and give them some insight into how to survive, where before they would have been clueless and helpless. Even if the footage is not released, maybe someone who's booted someone out of their house might reconsider after seeing one of the articles and take them back in.
I just think there's so much potential to make a difference, even a small one, that we mustn't condemn him for of all things leaving his dead body lying around and inconveniencing the emergency services.
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How do you know he had a fortunate station in life? Did I miss something? Sounds like just a man to me, not someone in a position to change anything with money.
He chose to make a documentary about homeless people. That, right there, the fact that he had the means to do that instead of concentrating on surviving in a world where not having a steady address, much less an income, means he was very fortunate compared to the people whose lives he wanted to portrait.
It could still have the effect of showing a future homeless person the realities of the situation, and give them some insight into how to survive, where before they would have been clueless and helpless.
By the time you become homeless, it is usually too late to prepare yourself for it. I know, I've been there.
Even if the footage is not released, maybe someone who's booted someone out of their house might reconsider after seeing one of the articles and take them back in.
Highly unlikely, to say the least.
I just think there's so much potential to make a difference, even a small one, that we mustn't condemn him for of all things leaving his dead body lying around and inconveniencing the emergency services.
What we must condemn him for, however, is insufficient preparation. Unlike the homeless people whose plight he wanted to portrait, he DID have a chance to educate himself on the topic. He was able to do research on the topic, as you would expect from someone making a documentary. He was able to arrange for emergency pickup in case things went unexpectedly south.
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Lorric, you say his death has so much potential, but what about his life? Do you not think he could have saved at least one life had he lived another 80 years?
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How do you know he had a fortunate station in life? Did I miss something? Sounds like just a man to me, not someone in a position to change anything with money.
He chose to make a documentary about homeless people. That, right there, the fact that he had the means to do that instead of concentrating on surviving in a world where not having a steady address, much less an income, means he was very fortunate compared to the people whose lives he wanted to portrait.
It could still have the effect of showing a future homeless person the realities of the situation, and give them some insight into how to survive, where before they would have been clueless and helpless.
By the time you become homeless, it is usually too late to prepare yourself for it. I know, I've been there.
Even if the footage is not released, maybe someone who's booted someone out of their house might reconsider after seeing one of the articles and take them back in.
Highly unlikely, to say the least.
I just think there's so much potential to make a difference, even a small one, that we mustn't condemn him for of all things leaving his dead body lying around and inconveniencing the emergency services.
What we must condemn him for, however, is insufficient preparation. Unlike the homeless people whose plight he wanted to portrait, he DID have a chance to educate himself on the topic. He was able to do research on the topic, as you would expect from someone making a documentary. He was able to arrange for emergency pickup in case things went unexpectedly south.
Yes, but not fortunate enough to make a difference that way. All he needed was a camera to shoot his footage, he didn't need anything big. He was doing it completely alone, this wasn't like your usual documentary with a presenter and a whole film crew. Using this method if it had been successful is by far and away the best he could have done to make a difference.
That's very interesting. I don't know if you want to elaborate. I can certainly understand not wanting to. I certainly can't comment on personal experience of such a thing, but surely it would still be useful, especially to someone living in that area, if he was filming the resources available and the places people sleep that are able to survive the nights and people talking about what you should do, and also how not to land yourself in the situation in the first place.
That specific scenario is not likely sure, but that was just one thing I could think of. The article with the comments section has been up for just several hours and already has 256 comments, and you need to be registered to comment. How many more people have either not commented or can't comment, but have seen it? The vast majority will continue on with their lives, but how many will decide to do something?
There is no way of knowing at this point, but I am confident that one body will be paid back in some way with interest.
It seems wrong to condemn him for that. Maybe his preparation was insufficient, but he's paid the price. You can state his lack of preparation cost him his life, but it's not something to condemn him for. He's already had his "punishment".
Lorric, you say his death has so much potential, but what about his life? Do you not think he could have saved at least one life had he lived another 80 years?
I'm actually speaking of the project rather than his death. He didn't complete the project, but he has still done something towards that end.
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Honestly, the people I have true respect for are the people who spend decades of their lives helping and advocating for the less-fortunate, all of those unsung heroes who in many cases are literally the only thing keeping the homeless population alive. Not so much for the guy who decided to live as they do without doing any adequate preparation.
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Honestly, the people I have true respect for are the people who spend decades of their lives helping and advocating for the less-fortunate, all of those unsung heroes who in many cases are literally the only thing keeping the homeless population alive. Not so much for the guy who decided to live as they do without doing any adequate preparation.
Well yes, such people really are among the best of humanity, but this is like when some celebrity donates a load of money to charity, you get people criticising them for not donating more, when lots of celebs donate nothing. He was doing something and something difficult. Even if you have no sympathy, surely you can acknowledge that?
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Simple fact is he died of stupidity. Yes it is a sad thing that he died, yes my thoughts are with his family, but ultimately his death was with a little research into the topic and a little common sense foreseeable by him and preventable by him, thus stupid.
as for the aftermath? well there is a little flash in the pan publicity raised that by this time next week will be all but forgotten + about another week when which ever investigative journalist who gets hold of the footage first manages to make a low budget documentary that will end up on channel 4 or 5 (UK)
result, 0 sympathy for the guy but plenty for those who cared about him, except for the planks that knew about his idea and didnt make sure he was prepared.
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Simple fact is he died of stupidity. Yes it is a sad thing that he died, yes my thoughts are with his family, but ultimately his death was with a little research into the topic and a little common sense foreseeable by him and preventable by him, thus stupid.
as for the aftermath? well there is a little flash in the pan publicity raised that by this time next week will be all but forgotten + about another week when which ever investigative journalist who gets hold of the footage first manages to make a low budget documentary that will end up on channel 4 or 5 (UK)
result, 0 sympathy for the guy but plenty for those who cared about him, except for the planks that knew about his idea and didnt make sure he was prepared.
Your predictions are probably fairly close to how this will play out, and your thoughts on what happened reasonable enough.
There's just one thing though, saying he died of stupidity, and I'm just thinking that if he wanted it to be as real as possible, wouldn't preparing yourself go against that? As The E said, you can't prepare to be homeless, because it's likely thrust upon you before you can. I just can't go into Darwin Award mode on this. I respect what he was trying to do, show it raw and real.
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Simple fact is he died of stupidity. Yes it is a sad thing that he died, yes my thoughts are with his family, but ultimately his death was with a little research into the topic and a little common sense foreseeable by him and preventable by him, thus stupid.
as for the aftermath? well there is a little flash in the pan publicity raised that by this time next week will be all but forgotten + about another week when which ever investigative journalist who gets hold of the footage first manages to make a low budget documentary that will end up on channel 4 or 5 (UK)
result, 0 sympathy for the guy but plenty for those who cared about him, except for the planks that knew about his idea and didnt make sure he was prepared.
Your predictions are probably fairly close to how this will play out, and your thoughts on what happened reasonable enough.
There's just one thing though, saying he died of stupidity, and I'm just thinking that if he wanted it to be as real as possible, wouldn't preparing yourself go against that? As The E said, you can't prepare to be homeless, because it's likely thrust upon you before you can. I just can't go into Darwin Award mode on this. I respect what he was trying to do, show it raw and real.
people survive on the streets through being prepared, by having means to keep warm enough by having places to go to shelter from the weather. I agree having a Arctic grade sleeping bag would be out of the spirit of the investigation and no i haven't looked into it myself but there must be core steps taken by the long term homeless that I presume he didnt follow.
Also doing it during the coldest and most unpredictable first quarter of a year weather wise seen for a long time was perhaps a needless risk.
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I guess they had to figure those steps out as they went and he wanted to as well.
The timing is bad, but you also have to consider he was entering some sort of contest. I'm not clear whether it was for career advancement or career obtainment, but maybe he wasn't able to wait. But even if it wasn't, I still think it was noble to go out right in the middle of the worst weather we've had all winter, and take the risks associated with that.
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I can't help but echo Ryan's comment. This pretty much helped nothing, but only left his family behind - and goes to Darwin Awards in my books.
Being unprepared and unaccustomed to cold is pretty much a recipe for a disaster when trying to overnight if you have snow on the ground, no matter how good the intentions behind it.
Yes it is possible to overnight outside in temperatures below -15 degrees of Celsius without any fire or heating, but that's only because I happened to have the stuff which can be used to pull it off. I do recall a group of minimalists trying to survive in Lapland (originally from French if I recall), they respected nature up to the point it became dangerous for themselves - they didn't cut the trees down, the pushed it down non-violently. To nobody's surprise, they didn't last even two months out there in the winter, but luckily no-one died. Much of that belongs to an outsider who provided them wood to burn in their tents.