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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: FireSpawn on May 01, 2013, 10:54:07 am

Title: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: FireSpawn on May 01, 2013, 10:54:07 am
So I just came across This Article (http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/30/4287382/aliens-colonial-marines-lawsuit-class-action-sega-gearbox) and several others which say the same thing.

Now in this case, I feel it is quite justified. All the trailers and publicity were footage taken from the demo, even right up to release date, and what people recieved was not what was advertised. I don't particularly care who wins this suit as the publicity will hurt both companies anyway, but I do hope that the message will be conveyed. While differences between demos from games still in developement and the finished thing are to be expected, A:CM essentially spat in the eye of that with a big yellow loogie.

So, what do you guys and gals think about it; Good thing? Bad thing? Death of the game demo?
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Mobius on May 01, 2013, 12:04:15 pm
I think this game was ranked 4/10 by Game Informer. They just don't recommend it.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Sarafan on May 01, 2013, 12:14:11 pm
I think it'll be a good thing if the guy wins this, many companies act like this and deliver something entirely different, its about time gamers get what they were advertised.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: An4ximandros on May 01, 2013, 12:20:15 pm
 Because of the disclaimer that says the demo did not represent the final game And the fact his lawsuit is about preordering, I heavily doubt this will go anywhere. Even if it does, it is likely he'll get power stomped in court.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Suongadon on May 01, 2013, 12:35:36 pm
Would be nice if the ruling put an end to the review-embargo crap, but I doubt any of it will go anywhere. 'Course, not a lawyer in California, so there could be case law that supports the plaintiff. Or the judge might be an Aliens fan. :p
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 01, 2013, 02:12:04 pm
review embargo isn't a legal thing, it's an industry thing.  reviewers are perfectly free to post reviews early.  but then that will be the last review they ever write, as they will no longer be getting advance copies.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Spoon on May 01, 2013, 02:18:25 pm
lawsuit against all the lies and false advertisment for EA's simcity when?
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Dragon on May 01, 2013, 02:30:02 pm
If there'll be a precedent, I'm calling dibs on suing the guys who made Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing (yes, I know I don't live in US yet, but I'm planning to at some point of my education). :)


EDIT: For those who don't know, BR:OtRR it's essentially a tech demo somebody had the audacity to ship like it was an actual game. And it wasn't a simple mistake, either. They released a patch for the thing (not that it helped much, considering you could still drive through the walls and go FTL if you hold reverse long enough...).
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: BloodEagle on May 01, 2013, 02:47:03 pm
1.) I would really like to see something like this get passed on the Federal level for every finished product sold.  Because I haven't seen Truth in Advertising law do much of anything, lately.
2.) Demo footage at PAX does not count as a finished product (as their disclaimer noted).
3.) There are several games on Steam that outright lie about what's inside the box.  They should focus on those.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Lorric on May 01, 2013, 02:49:38 pm
If there'll be a precedent, I'm calling dibs on suing the guys who made Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing (yes, I know I don't live in US yet, but I'm planning to at some point of my education). :)


EDIT: For those who don't know, BR:OtRR it's essentially a tech demo somebody had the audacity to ship like it was an actual game. And it wasn't a simple mistake, either. They released a patch for the thing (not that it helped much, considering you could still drive through the walls and go FTL if you hold reverse long enough...).

I actually thought about mentioning that! I just didn't really know what to say exactly :D

Looks like the company has broken up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Stone
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: The E on May 01, 2013, 03:05:09 pm
1.) I would really like to see something like this get passed on the Federal level for every finished product sold.  Because I haven't seen Truth in Advertising law do much of anything, lately.

You have, actually. Marketing has evolved so that pinning a campaign down with a TiA lawsuit is almost impossible. You may feel as if a given campaign broke them, or bent them, but proving that is really hard.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: An4ximandros on May 01, 2013, 06:49:28 pm
If there'll be a precedent, I'm calling dibs on suing the guys who made Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing (yes, I know I don't live in US yet, but I'm planning to at some point of my education). :)

EDIT: For those who don't know, BR:OtRR it's essentially a tech demo somebody had the audacity to ship like it was an actual game. And it wasn't a simple mistake, either. They released a patch for the thing (not that it helped much, considering you could still drive through the walls and go FTL if you hold reverse long enough...).
Holy S***. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f3HDsgLV68)

EDIT: Ahahaahaha! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=hrSuZfSZ6m0)
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Dragon on May 01, 2013, 09:05:06 pm
So yeah. And have you seen the box? :) "18 wheels of thunder" or something like that, and box are making it look like an actual game. Aliens:CM have nothing on Big Rigs with regards to TiA issues.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: The E on May 02, 2013, 01:59:29 am
Wait, you were actually serious?

Big Rigs was an incredible failure, yes. However, unlike A:CM, it was never going to get much interest; There never was a big hype surrounding it in the first place. Equating the two issues is a stupid thing to do.

(Hell, if you are desperate to bring Big Rigs into this discussion, why not concentrate on WarZ, made by the same developer? THAT game had some pretty legitimate issues with truth in advertising.)
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Dragon on May 02, 2013, 07:40:55 am
Wait, you were actually serious?
Semi-serious, really. When I've heard of this, I was amazed the devs weren't sued into oblivion by disappointed customers, but I guess that's because the game was obscure. You're right that Aliens:CM was advertised a lot more and thus it was much bigger deal.
Also, thanks for telling me about War Z. I can accept, a company releasing one abomination like Big Rigs. But they did it again! A vid, for the record: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKAm3nzg6I Says it all, really, and it's not even funny. Talk about refuge in audacity.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: TrashMan on May 02, 2013, 07:58:02 am
Wether or not something garners much interest on not has no bearing on wether it sucks or not, of it a serious breach of law happened.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Dragon on May 02, 2013, 08:08:58 am
Yeah, but if something gathers a lot of interest, it gets bought by a lot of people. Also, IIRC, Aliens:CM had a preorder option. With War Z, most people had a chance not to buy it before reading a review or seeing a vid. On the other hand, people who bought Aliens:CM were only going by demo footage. It would be alright, if only they showed stuff from actual game before release (so people could cancel the preorder if they didn't like it), which they didn't. Still, lies are lies, and in both cases, I think that law has been seriously violated. There's advertising trickery and there's lying in customers' faces, and here we're talking about the latter.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Spoon on May 02, 2013, 09:18:50 am
An other game comes to mind. Sword of the stars 2.
Released under the lie of "we accidently uploaded the wrong build for release!" while the game was flatout not ready yet, somewhere in early alpha with not even a working options menu.
Charging money for incomplete products seem to be all the rage nowadays.

Most F2P games just hide under the 'ITS A BETA VERSION' blanket nowadays too, like MWO (or any other recent F2P game, but I remember MWO as it had stalward forum knights that would dismiss every bit of valid critism with BETA BETA BETA), but they'll all gladly take your money for microtransactions.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 02, 2013, 09:28:39 am
Then there's the fashion of selling an open alpha and acting like that absolves you of any responsibility for testing your damn code.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: The E on May 02, 2013, 09:42:00 am
uhhhh

Yes, it does. Alpha means "This is untested, there may be dragons here". However, it also means "We're still working on it, if you find bugs please report them" (The dev's obligation, of course, is to actually do the work, but complaining about alpha-quality games being unfinished strikes me as a bit silly).
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Dragon on May 02, 2013, 10:20:36 am
Then there's the fashion of selling an open alpha and acting like that absolves you of any responsibility for testing your damn code.
Actually, as long as it's labeled as an alpha, I think that's a very good thing. In fact, the entire point of releasing an open alpha is to get people to complain about bugs, so you can fix them. A "community alpha" is a win-win situation for the community in question and the devs. The former get the game early and gets to participate in the development, the latter get money from the sales and a testing team of a size no corporation could ever afford to hire. This might well be one of the greatest gaming inventions since 3D graphics. Charging money for incomplete things and acting as if they're complete is something that definitely shouldn't happen, but stuff clearly released as development version (and updated with decent frequency) is fine.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 02, 2013, 11:37:11 am
OK, to be clear, that was a thinly-veiled jab at Minecraft's development practices, where Notch would often release updates which were utterly broken in ways that would have been noticed after 5 minutes of playtesting, and which were for a long time effectively mandatory if you wanted to use multiplayer. Nobody expects a public alpha to be bug-free, but being functional is another matter entirely.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Dragon on May 02, 2013, 12:37:19 pm
Well, sliced bread is also a great invention, but it wouldn't be so great if you sliced it along it's long axis, wouldn't it? Minecraft's alpha development was poorly handled and most games don't do that. Take KSP. First development builds, which are what the devs work on, then internal testing versions which are often barely functional, but at least work and public alpha builds which are quite stable, if still somewhat bugged. Releasing every dev version to the public only makes sense if you're doing an open source project, like SCP (and even in SCP, if you want a build based on some random version, you have to build it yourself. Non-coders have nightlies, which should be at least functional). Also, before commiting anything, one should at least have the decency to run it at least once to see if it works as intended. I learned this the hard way when working on BP (it went about as well as you'd expect, the commit got reverted the following day).
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Nemesis6 on May 02, 2013, 04:05:55 pm
(http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/archive/d/da/20091001172538!Randy_Pitchford.jpg)(http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/archive/d/da/20091001172538!Randy_Pitchford.jpg)
(http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/archive/d/da/20091001172538!Randy_Pitchford.jpg)(http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/archive/d/da/20091001172538!Randy_Pitchford.jpg)

That is all.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: FireSpawn on May 02, 2013, 04:44:39 pm
Well, sliced bread is also a great invention, but it wouldn't be so great if you sliced it along it's long axis.

False. It would make for some mighty sandwiches.


Also; Dafuq is that guy, and why does he have the eyes of a sexual predator?
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Ghostavo on May 02, 2013, 06:26:15 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Pitchford
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: deathfun on May 03, 2013, 12:04:47 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Pitchford

I still don't really follow the point he was trying to make
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: The E on May 03, 2013, 03:35:00 am
Maybe he really likes Randy Pitchford?
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: FireSpawn on May 03, 2013, 05:21:28 am
I side with Deathfun on this.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Dragon on May 03, 2013, 06:13:05 am
Maybe he really likes Randy Pitchford?
Seems like it he really, really likes him, so to speak. :) Not that I have anything against that.
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: Nemesis6 on May 03, 2013, 06:52:56 am
Actually, it was more of a reference to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPF8jpItCs
Title: Re: Aliens: Colonial Marines subject of Lawsuit
Post by: deathfun on May 05, 2013, 07:27:25 pm
Actually, it was more of a reference to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPF8jpItCs

Now that makes more sense