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I've read the books.
MUHAHAHAHAH!
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And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.
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Literally the most entertaining part of these dumb books is watching reactions to this
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i think the #nowthatchersdead effect is fully in play again with #got, most of the tweets are jokes about how shocked everyone's reactions are going to be
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As someone who has read the books but does not follow the series atm, what exactly happened?
I am geussing the 'red wedding'?
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Yep. :(
But that means next week... :D
Literally the most entertaining part of these dumb books is watching reactions to this
Disliking something popular makes you cool and clever. We should listen to your opinion. :rolleyes:
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Come on, man. These books have been around since long before the TV show, and you know I'm an SF/F writer with pretty developed opinions about storytelling. Is it so hard to believe I have substantive reasons to think GoT is mediocre that totally predate the TV series and its popularity? They're not **** awful, there's actually a couple important things they do really well.
I guess I should probably just snap something back and roll my eyes in return but damn, that kind of stung. :(
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Come on, man. These books have been around since long before the TV show, and you know I'm an SF/F writer with pretty developed opinions about storytelling. Is it so hard to believe I have substantive reasons to think GoT is mediocre that totally predate the TV series and its popularity? They're not **** awful, there's actually a couple important things they do really well.
I guess I should probably just snap something back and roll my eyes in return but damn, that kind of stung. :(
To be fair, you did just call them 'dumb books' without any form of elaboration, so I don't think Black Wolf's response was entirely off-base.
I really enjoy the books (less so the show, because it diverged so much in the second season), though I wish Martin would quit introducing new characters willy-nilly and focus on completing the damn story arc.
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Did the bat hurt 'tutta? I am sorry, I could not resist.
I frankly believe the series is all right. Nothing magical (the show and books.) But it entertains.
Now, if someone were to make a series inspired by The Anarchy...
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We've had loads of past discussions full of elaboration, though if BW wasn't there I suppose I don't blame him for the response, I'm just surprised that was the conclusion he leapt to. It speaks to a contempt I didn't know was there.
[22:13] <Aesaar> also, to this day I have no idea if battuta likes ASOIAF or not
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(http://i.imgur.com/O3D802d.gif)
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(http://i.imgur.com/O3D802d.gif)
Image was borked
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I've got no doubt about your talent, Battuta, or in sight or whatever you want to call it. But when people jump into conversations about a popular piece of pop culture (be it books, movies, bands, games, whatever) just to call them crap with no other context, it's only ever done to draw attention to the fact that the commenter has some kind of dissenting, non-"mainstream" (and therefore, superior) opinions. Generally, it leads to people leaping to the defence of their book/movie/band/whatever and a dull conversation that only makes one person happy.
It's the same kind of hipsteriffic, attention-seeking "I liked them before they were cool but now they've sold out" attitude that deserves to be pointed out and deflated, online or off.
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This is an ongoing conversation that's spanned some time and involved a great deal of substance and nuance. I'm not jumping in here. I don't know how much of that conversation has occurred in places you've read, but at least part of it has been in the past GoT threads right here on HLP.
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We've had loads of past discussions full of elaboration, though if BW wasn't there I suppose I don't blame him for the response, I'm just surprised that was the conclusion he leapt to. It speaks to a contempt I didn't know was there.
To be fair, when you say 'dumb books' you show a level of contempt for them, which in turn makes folks who enjoy the books feel like you hold them in contempt as well. Ergo you get a harsh response.
It makes you seem like your on a high hoity tonight literary mountain and we're all slumming it with our serf literature.
I don't take personal offense or anything but there you go.
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To be clear, is the assertion here that I'm an attention-seeking hipster trying to start an argument? That's pretty harsh.
I don't want to start a slapfight, so I'm debating whether to try to put together a more in-depth response about the nature of criticism and the way its expressed. Do I need to open any posts in a Game of Thrones thread about a twitter hashtag with a few pasted paragraphs about my opinions of the books and show? Would that provide the necessary context? Would it defuse the concern that I'm making posts for, uh, attention on a small internet forum?
This has really rapidly become a discussion about me which is a little uncomfortable.
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Maybe we can give it another spin:
These books by George R R Martin are on the whole mediocre, due to the author's failings as a structural and prose writer, his Robert Jordanesque inability to track or manage his own threads, and his slightly puerile fixations; but they offer admirable lessons in both consequentiality in character agency and tangibility in setting design, as particularly exemplified by The Red Wedding, which we just saw on TV. My favorite parts of Game of Thrones, in spite of my own inability to really enjoy or respect the books, are the reactions of readers forced to confront events that do not mesh with their expectations of a genre narrative. (I can't fit this in a tweet tho, hope that's okay)
e: fixed mismatched pluralization
e: ANOTHER ONE
e: FUUUUCK
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due to the author's failing as a structural and prose writer, his Robert Jordanesque inability to track or manage his own threads, and his slightly puerile fixations; b
What do these mean
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It doesn't matter we should be talking about the hilarity of the Red Wedding aftermath
https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears
e: ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha someone finally nailed it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfI7W6bmReQ)
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hipsteriffic, attention-seeking
Who are you and where have you been for pretty much everything Battuta has ever done on these boards?
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Oh dat song :swoon:
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due to the author's failing as a structural and prose writer, his Robert Jordanesque inability to track or manage his own threads, and his slightly puerile fixations; b
What do these mean
I'm assuming the first part is referring to the way that the narrative has just completely metastatised as the series drags on (how many parallel viewpoint characters are we up to now? I'm pretty sure it's well over ten.) with little hope of any real closure before the author either gets bored or dies.
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Oh dat song :swoon:
White Wedding is just perfect <3
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So, finally got around to watching it. Gonna go ahead and do this, because I know plenty of people will get their panties in a bunch if I don't:
Regarding the instantly-infamous Red Wedding, I didn't see that event in particular coming. However, I had a sneaking suspicion that Walter Frey had some evil in mind- major kudos to his actor! Excellent twist, and a kick in the balls to be sure, but I think people forgot just how harsh the series had been up to this point. Grimdarkness in of itself a compelling narrative does not make, but I'd say it's being used quite well as a narrative tool.
Obviously I haven't read the books. Bite me, yadda yadda. I never liked Rob that much as a character (I thought him and his portrayal were rather blandly "heroic"), but currently I'm way more concerned about the war effort. The Northerners are probably screwed, and I don't even need my Dwarf Fortress-honed "screwed sense" to make that conclusion.
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The outcry is pretty delicious to watch, even though I have no idea what's going on.
Does anybody feel like spoiling it for somebody who has never and has no plans to watch any episodes or read the books?
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The outcry is pretty delicious to watch, even though I have no idea what's going on.
Does anybody feel like spoiling it for somebody who has never and has no plans to watch any episodes or read the books?
Some people got married, and the reception sucked.
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The outcry is pretty delicious to watch, even though I have no idea what's going on.
Does anybody feel like spoiling it for somebody who has never and has no plans to watch any episodes or read the books?
Heroey type guy is assassinated suddenly at his wedding, along with everyone else in the wedding party, including his also-heroey mom. Heroey-type guy's dad was the heroey type guy of season 1, and got beheaded. Fans (who didn't read the books) were outraged and relatively angsty over this, but somehow decided to go with 'well that's over, so nothing like that will ever happens again!' rather than accepting that heroey people can and will be killed in the future for lulz the greater good plotty-reasons.
Oh dat song :swoon:
White Wedding is just perfect <3
Yeah that's good too. Doesn't have quite the same tear-bottling potential though :p
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The outcry is pretty delicious to watch, even though I have no idea what's going on.
Does anybody feel like spoiling it for somebody who has never and has no plans to watch any episodes or read the books?
End of season 1, the head of the Stark family, a character you thought was the main hero/good guy, is beheaded by a rival family. His family lives on. His daughters are held hostage by his beheaders, but his eldest son rallies the bannermen, is declared king in the north, and wages war on the family that beheaded his father in order to get back his sisters. For 2 seasons we see events from his viewpoint, presuming that he is the new "main hero/good guy". You see where this is going...
During the course of the war, he offends an overly-sensitive minor family located in a strategic geographical position. Later on he needs to appease them for the war effort, and pledges his uncle to one of the minor family's daughters. At that wedding, the king in the north and his widowed mother are betrayed and brutally killed.
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Come on, man. These books have been around since long before the TV show, and you know I'm an SF/F writer with pretty developed opinions about storytelling. Is it so hard to believe I have substantive reasons to think GoT is mediocre that totally predate the TV series and its popularity? They're not **** awful, there's actually a couple important things they do really well.
I guess I should probably just snap something back and roll my eyes in return but damn, that kind of stung.
Apparently, everybody's a critic nowadays :drevil:
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Ah, yep, that would explain it. Cool, thanks.
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Apparently, everybody's a critic nowadays
Everyone will in fact evaluate your story for basic elements of storytelling and entertainment.
...this is news how?
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The outcry is pretty delicious to watch, even though I have no idea what's going on.
Does anybody feel like spoiling it for somebody who has never and has no plans to watch any episodes or read the books?
End of season 1, the head of the Stark family, a character you thought was the main hero/good guy, is beheaded by a rival family. His family lives on. His daughters are held hostage by his beheaders, but his eldest son rallies the bannermen, is declared king in the north, and wages war on the family that beheaded his father in order to get back his sisters. For 2 seasons we see events from his viewpoint, presuming that he is the new "main hero/good guy". You see where this is going...
During the course of the war, he offends an overly-sensitive minor family located in a strategic geographical position. Later on he needs to appease them for the war effort, and pledges his uncle to one of the minor family's daughters. At that wedding, the king in the north and his widowed mother are betrayed and brutally killed.
Don't worry. She gets better... ish. :P
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I couldn't resist (upvote plz?): http://redd.it/1fm4hl
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I read the books and knew this was coming. As did one of my roommates. My other roommate has not read the books and therefore had no idea.
It was very, very fun watching him freak out and sit there blubbering in denial.
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I just spent an hour watching people's reaction videos on YouTube. :D
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The outcry is pretty delicious to watch, even though I have no idea what's going on.
Does anybody feel like spoiling it for somebody who has never and has no plans to watch any episodes or read the books?
Some people got married, and the reception sucked.
I really feel like we should have a /. rating system for posts.
:lol:
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I think this video perfectly embodies the GoT TV series' fanbase right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgJjqwmhN28&feature=player_detailpage&list=PLAHq2bTr6tyDT1IPxBMKAndBsZUkyowvp#t=12s
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(http://i.imgur.com/VeHhIOM.jpg)
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xD
Was watching it with my mother today and all was well and good until the end. Her reaction was hilarious to watch
Mine on the other hand was that of "I knew this **** was going to happen" as soon as that ominous music started playing. Nobody closes to doors and starts playing a minor key song for kicks at a wedding. The look on mother Stark's face also gave it away
Although that stabbing of the "Queen of the North" was bloody brutal! I mean ****. That's also more slit throats than I've seen in one episode
Excellent scene in my books. Loved every moment of it and am seriously wanting to know what happens next
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Not just any ominous music, but Lannister music. Yeah, I knew something was up as soon as it started playing. :shaking:
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It doesn't matter we should be talking about the hilarity of the Red Wedding aftermath
https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears
e: ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha someone finally nailed it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfI7W6bmReQ)
Just watched that episode. I personally don't see what's so funny about laughing about other people's emotions like that, honestly, as I find it in bad taste and shows a potential lack for compassion (or worse) - I understand it a little if you look at it from the book perspective, could've potentially seen every event coming due to it but not everyone likes books/likes spoilers. Even moreso, people tweet their responses within a minute after it happening, so everyone is rather emotional about the events.
Quick addendum: I understand one might be able to laugh at people not realizing it's based off a book, thus the events have already been set in stone for the most part, thus it isn't the fault of the creators of the TV show nor their desire to just mess with people's favorite characters for shock value. Still it doesn't make me laugh as I filter through that to see what a response people have to these events which I find rather impressive for a TV show. It gives food for thought as how to make people care for the characters in a real way and reminding them of the rules of the world they are inhabiting/viewing. As someone that likes to write, that's always interesting for me.
I surely didn't see the events of episode 9 coming even with the hints of Walter Frey being someone not to trifle with, though I told my brother who brought me into GoT to begin with that I was foreseeing something bad was going to happen to Rob from strategic and overall storyline progression. The amount and the execution of it though, wow. Tops off the whole mess in King's Landing. Heh, to think I thought the Red Wedding was going to take place somewhere completely different involving completely different characters.. I'll miss those characters, honestly, I liked seeing their narrative and story evolve, wanted to see more battles.
I found the rest of the events, such as John Snow and the boys surviving to be a symbolic trade-off, some characters 'sacrifice'/are sacrificed.
All in all, Westeros is effed for sure now.
Personally I find GoT to be quite a good series thus far. To be fair, I haven't been watching many TV shows (nor many 'hollywood/AAA' movies) for many many years now. If anyone has suggestions for any series that manages to do even better than GoT, since I've only seen some pretty crappy shows being broadcasted on TV here, that would be appreciated.
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It's admittedly been a while since I read the novels (and I'm pretty sure I stopped before the last one), but I have to say, I like the television adaptation better.
It seems like every failing the author had in setting expectations up and maintaining character arcs is made up for by the director and the medium.
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Personally I find GoT to be quite a good series thus far. To be fair, I haven't been watching many TV shows (nor many 'hollywood/AAA' movies) for many many years now. If anyone has suggestions for any series that manages to do even better than GoT, since I've only seen some pretty crappy shows being broadcasted on TV here, that would be appreciated.
Game of Thrones is a pretty decent TV show, but Mad Men is at least two cuts better and The Wire is (of course) the greatest TV show ever made.
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Are you trying to say that 'I HATE YOU AND HOPES YOU DIE HBOS//FAT MARTIN//whoeverthedirectoris!!!1! **** YOU HBOS I'M CANCELS MY SUBSCRIBEING NAO' is not a ludicrous response?
*edit* I just checked the # again. Yesterday, at least, it was all sorts of 'i hates you' and no sorts of ':('
Also: Deadwood.
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Next week's season finale is sure to be... worth watching. ;7
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As an observer, I think I can explain why it's so fun to laugh at the people who are freaking out about the MASSIVE TWIST!
If I understand the culture, then those who watch the show but don't read the books, are generally extremely adamant about avoiding spoilers. So if somebody who knew what was coming tried to warn their loved ones, they would get shut down immediately, leading those forewarned to a "I told you so" sort of smugness.
Those watching the show may feel trolled by the writer(s), but in reality, they trolled themselves.
Also, going by Sandwich's last post, I'd like to guess that either
more beloved characters are brutally murdered, some MASSIVE REVENGE takes place, or the beloved characters somehow manage to recover from being brutally murdered.
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As an observer, I think I can explain why it's so fun to laugh at the people who are freaking out about the MASSIVE TWIST!
If I understand the culture, then those who watch the show but don't read the books, are generally extremely adamant about avoiding spoilers. So if somebody who knew what was coming tried to warn their loved ones, they would get shut down immediately, leading those forewarned to a "I told you so" sort of smugness.
Those watching the show may feel trolled by the writer(s), but in reality, they trolled themselves.
Also, going by Sandwich's last post, I'd like to guess that either
more beloved characters are brutally murdered, some MASSIVE REVENGE takes place, or the beloved characters somehow manage to recover from being brutally murdered.
I think the freakout was simply because traditional TV...
...doesn't kill off main characters anywhere near this frequently or callously.
As for what I posted, I will neither confirm or deny your guesses. The only thing I will say is that things happen that definitely make it worth watching.
Of course, this is GoT... when is that not true? :p
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fantasy really isnt my thing, but the show has a dune-esque brutality to it that kinda gives me a woody. im also glad they have made it feel less like a soft porno in this season. probibly gonna read the books when the series ends (even if they are ****).
Come on, man. These books have been around since long before the TV show, and you know I'm an SF/F writer with pretty developed opinions about storytelling. Is it so hard to believe I have substantive reasons to think GoT is mediocre that totally predate the TV series and its popularity? They're not **** awful, there's actually a couple important things they do really well.
I guess I should probably just snap something back and roll my eyes in return but damn, that kind of stung.
Apparently, everybody's a critic nowadays :drevil:
i find critics (and movie ratings as well) are a horribly unreliable way to figure out if im going to like something or not. its to the point where if i the critics berate something, that it immediately becomes a must see for me. because it seems i enjoy the movies and shows (and i guess games too) that get horrible ratings, and are shunned by critics. things with high ratings and positive reviews almost always disappoint. the only reason i watch got at all is because there isnt anything else on tv to watch. and these premium cable channel shows seem to be treading the sex and violence waters formally tread on by exploitation flicks. and dont get me wrong, i love me some exploitation flicks, but to label them as 'premium', an demand huge subscription fees, is just atrocious.
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Seeing the widespread despair/outrage/depression over this kind of makes me feel okay about being actively indifferent towards this whole series. (Seriously, I had A Game of Thrones sitting unread on my bookshelf for like three years, until my brother pilfered it once he got into the show.) One of the first things I ever heard about it was basically, "Everyone you care about will die," and that kind of sent me the other way. I've seen my fair share of fiction where really major characters get offed unexpectedly, and I know it's possible to tell a great story like that, but it always feels so...limiting. If you go through all the effort of writing an awesome character, why not keep them around for a long time so they can continue to do awesome stuff? (In some circles one might call that the Eiichiro Oda approach.)
Plus, the way I see it, real life is depressing enough, so I try not to actively seek out fiction that will just wind up depressing me too, with varying success. :p
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One of the first things I ever heard about it was basically, "Everyone you care about will die," and that kind of sent me the other way. I've seen my fair share of fiction where really major characters get offed unexpectedly, and I know it's possible to tell a great story like that, but it always feels so...limiting. If you go through all the effort of writing an awesome character, why not keep them around for a long time so they can continue to do awesome stuff?
It's not quite as bad as that... GRRM's got an ensemble cast of characters, and he typically writes chapters from the points of view of the "major" ones. Offhand, I'd guesstimate that he's got around 15-20 of those, of whom he's killed off perhaps 3-5 in the... 4000+ pages he's written? It's really not as bad as it's made out to be, and IMO, greatly enriches the emotional investment in the story, since you go into chapters never knowing how they'll end.
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Seeing the widespread despair/outrage/depression over this kind of makes me feel okay about being actively indifferent towards this whole series. (Seriously, I had A Game of Thrones sitting unread on my bookshelf for like three years, until my brother pilfered it once he got into the show.) One of the first things I ever heard about it was basically, "Everyone you care about will die," and that kind of sent me the other way. I've seen my fair share of fiction where really major characters get offed unexpectedly, and I know it's possible to tell a great story like that, but it always feels so...limiting. If you go through all the effort of writing an awesome character, why not keep them around for a long time so they can continue to do awesome stuff? (In some circles one might call that the Eiichiro Oda approach.)
Plus, the way I see it, real life is depressing enough, so I try not to actively seek out fiction that will just wind up depressing me too, with varying success. :p
GRRM writes relatively few genuinely engaging characters, so it's easy just to see them as pawns on a chessboard.
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(http://media.tumblr.com/ef6615429b294488da43f6679030cd42/tumblr_inline_mnw8hfP0Tr1qz4rgp.jpg)
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Seeing the widespread despair/outrage/depression over this kind of makes me feel okay about being actively indifferent towards this whole series. (Seriously, I had A Game of Thrones sitting unread on my bookshelf for like three years, until my brother pilfered it once he got into the show.) One of the first things I ever heard about it was basically, "Everyone you care about will die," and that kind of sent me the other way. I've seen my fair share of fiction where really major characters get offed unexpectedly, and I know it's possible to tell a great story like that, but it always feels so...limiting. If you go through all the effort of writing an awesome character, why not keep them around for a long time so they can continue to do awesome stuff? (In some circles one might call that the Eiichiro Oda approach.)
Plus, the way I see it, real life is depressing enough, so I try not to actively seek out fiction that will just wind up depressing me too, with varying success. :p
GRRM writes relatively few genuinely engaging characters, so it's easy just to see them as pawns on a chessboard.
That... is very true, now that I think about it. I don't think there are any characters in that book who I like simply for being well-written characters, I mostly just pick favourites based on narrative hipsterism.
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(http://media.tumblr.com/ef6615429b294488da43f6679030cd42/tumblr_inline_mnw8hfP0Tr1qz4rgp.jpg)
Oh my gosh I'm laughing so hard right now... did you take that shot? Did the store workers arrange it like that or something? :lol:
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I can't take credit, I just found it on the internet and decided to pass it on.
Edit: Here's an extra! [SUPER SPOILERS IF YOU HAVENT SEEN THE DAMN EPISODE]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U6AjgR7D3yg
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I ran across this while watching some behind the scenes videos on the Gameofthrones YT channel, and it was simply too good to pass up... :p (there are no spoilers)
http://redd.it/1fygpl
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https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1001161_680990128597110_1096620436_n.jpg
That's just too funny