Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: hironside on June 15, 2013, 11:18:26 am
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Hello,
I would like to know before I install the latest updates, what are they exactly?
Because some pages indicated VP3.6.18 but on others I've seen VP3.7.0, so this is someone could tell me which is the latest update please?
Thank you in advance for your answers. :confused: :v-old:
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The version numbers for the FSO executable and the MediaVPs are diifferent. The latest FSO executable is 3.6.18. The latest MediaVPs version is 3.6.12.
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The version numbers for the FSO executable and the MediaVPs are diifferent. The latest FSO executable is 3.6.18. The latest MediaVPs version is 3.6.12.
In addition, 3.7.0 is the next stable release of FSO, currently in beta.
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The version numbers for the FSO executable and the MediaVPs are diifferent. The latest FSO executable is 3.6.18. The latest MediaVPs version is 3.6.12.
In addition, 3.7.0 is the next stable release of FSO, currently in beta.
One more thing. The latest FSPort version is 3.4. \o/
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Thank you, or you can download the latest version 3.4 FSO? scp.
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Thank you, or you can download the latest version 3.4 FSO? scp.
No. FSPort (the 'port' of FS1 to the FS 2 engine, with vastly updated assets, music and tons of bugfixes) is at version 3.4. The MediaVPS (updated assets, sounds, bugfixes, etc, etc for FS2) is currently at version 3.6.12. And the '.exe' (which has new features, optimizations, etc) is currently at 3.6.18....
I know, I know... quite a lot of versions there :p
Gooby pls!
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The biggest thing to understand is that HLP and the Source Code Project are not exactly making "upgraded FreeSpace 2".
The Source Code Project (the guys that make the .EXEs) are just trying to make the most awesome space-sim engine possible from the source of the original FS2 code.
The MediaVPs or FreeSpace Upgrade Project are the closest to making an "upgraded FreeSpace 2", but we, as a project, don't have anything to do with the .EXEs. We simply take advantage of features in the latest and greatest that the Source Code Project releases.
FSPort is, as previously stated, a project aiming to port FS1 to FS2 and the latest Source Code Project .EXE. It is also a separate project with it's own releases and versioning.
These 3 projects are each their own, albeit related. The MediaVPs and FSPort are more like their own mods that are somewhat standardized for the community to make use of. They just also happen to be the only projects focused on reliving the original Voltion-made campaigns, which is where I think most of the confusion comes from.
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Thank you, or you can download the latest version 3.4 FSO? scp.
Also FSPort is retail compatible. (not its mediavps set although)
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Hi ,
Thank you to you for all these details, it is true that it is a bit complicated, or is it that I could download the latest FSport 3.4 please?
:bump:
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Hi ,
Thank you to you for all these details, it is true that it is a bit complicated, or is it that I could download the latest FSport 3.4 please?
:bump:
You can either:
- Download and play only FSPort 3.4, retail-style
- Or download FSPort 3.4, the FSPort MediaVPs, FSO 3.6.18 and the MediaVPs 3.6.12, for a much better-looking game.
Yes, it is a bit complicated :P
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wow, the most recent media vp was nearly three years ago...
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I hate to ask, but are there any concrete plans for a new release? Perhaps an 'asset freeze' or something to that effect?
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I think the problem there would be that nobody would want an asset freeze while Oddgrim is powering along making awesome Vasudan models at a mile a minute. :) Plus I think they have some internal, as-yet-unfinished models that they (The FSU people) are waiting on before finalizing a new version.
Still, the whole point of these multiply divided version numbers is to allow incremental upgrades, right? So a temporary "snapshot" VP showing everything currently finished might not be out of the question, and would be useful for threads like this - after all, if all you get is 3.6.12, you miss out on what I suspect would be at least a dozen upgraded models that have been released since then (possibly dozens with all the Shivan fighters and stuff).
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Couldn't find another topic so I would like to ask : I remember Dan Wentz had remixed some FS2 soundtracks. Will the next MediaVPs boast Dan Wentz music as an additional download?
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The Dan Wentz tracks for FS2 have been in the MediaVPs for years. You are thinking about his recent FS1 tracks.
As for the FSU release.. Partially we have stuff to finish, partially we have stuff we want to finish, and partially we want to continue to ride HTLing motivation while it still is going strong inn multiple members.
So, of course we plan to make a release, just be patient. Asking when or making offhand remarks (bobboau) won't necessarily speed up the process. We'll release when it's ready(tm). Until then, we'd be glad to help you learn the basic modding skills required to customize your install with the individually released HTL models.
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Well, those remixes are not the original soundtracks, and would thus change the experience, so I am guessing with 99.9999% certainty that "No". However, Dan did retrieve a lot of better quality versions of his original music, and that is already included.
If you really want the "additional download", then I'd advise you to go straight to the source of them, the Daniel Wentz (https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wentz)'s Soundcloud page, where he posted them (IIRC all of them).
e: /ninja'd
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The Dan Wentz tracks for FS2 have been in the MediaVPs for years. You are thinking about his recent FS1 tracks.
No, I know about the improved versions in MV_Music.vp . I asked about the remixed ones. :(
Well, those remixes are not the original soundtracks, and would thus change the experience, so I am guessing with 99.9999% certainty that "No".
That's why I just asked, not requested specifically. Anyways for me it would have been awesome, but again it's just me. :)
If you really want the "additional download", then I'd advise you to go straight to the source of them, the Daniel Wentz (https://soundcloud.com/daniel-wentz)'s Soundcloud page, where he posted them (IIRC all of them).
I have already visited that site and thus I knew about the remixes. But I saw that there were FS2-Cinema, one briefing music, the Exodus soundtrack, mainhall music and victory music. So I just asked that whether you guys had the rest of the soundtracks. (Because I thought this on seeing the remixed arrival musics in FSPort which were not there on his Soundcloud page.) So perhaps I shouldn't have asked this question. :blah: Sorry.
*Arpit apologizes to the FSU team*
Anyways could you just give us a roadmap, so that we can know how much work you people still have to do for the next release of MediaVps ?
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I hope we never get the remixed ones except as an optional VP.
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I hope we never get the remixed ones except as an optional VP.
Will the next MediaVPs boast Dan Wentz music as an additional download?
By additional download I meant an optional VP. :nervous:
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I'm not ruling it out, but we currently have no plans to make an optional music pack.
As for a roadmap.. No. We don't work like that for one, and we aren't going to limit ourselves with such a plan. It will be released when it's ready as I previously stated. Besides, asking for a roadmap is a round about way of asking how much longer until release.
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Until then, we'd be glad to help you learn the basic modding skills required to customize your install with the individually released HTL models.
I'd like to learn how to do this. Where can I get more information?
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It's pretty simple, really. You should have your freespace2\mediavps_3612 folder. Inside may or may not exist a 'data' folder.. so it'd be 'freespace2\mediavps_3612\data'.
From here on out, the first thing you should know is that the released models may or may not break mods.. so you are on your own support-wise for that. (you could add these individual models to a new mod folder, but that gets a bit more complicated.)
Inside the 'data' folder, if they don't exist, create the folders named 'models', 'maps', 'tables', and 'cache'. The individual downloads come with a few file types and sometimes the files are already in folders named as you just created. POF files go in 'models', DDS or other image files go in 'maps' and any TBL or TBM files go in 'tables'. Sometimes they include BX files... those go in 'cache'.
That should pretty much do it if the modeller released everything correctly. Sometimes there are issues, so just post in the respective threads and we'll help you out.
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The models I downloaded appear to be working properly. Thanks!
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(bobboau)
Sitting quietly hasn't worked either. I remember being somewhat miffed two years ago that there had not been a release, I put off reinstalling FS because there hadn't been one. In the time since the last VP was released I have received a bachelors degree, got a salary position that doubled my paycheck at the place I had been working, quit said salaried position in a fiery moment of shouting, found another job that doubled my pay yet again, moved half way across the continent, gone to Aruba, and Turks and Caicos, helped host a tech conference, twice, presenting once, developed and taught TWO classes on mobile development, picked up hiking and photography as a hobby, and got half way through a masters degree. I would likely be a home owner before the next VP is released, if work started tonight on packaging up everything that has been completed. Honestly you are somewhat past the threshold of getting backhanded comments.
I'm not saying progress is not being made, nor am I saying that nobody is doing a good job or that anyone is lazy, I'm just saying it's time for another release. You cannot wait for everything to be done, because it pretty much by the simple nature of this project will never be done. just get someone looking at what is ready to go, and pack it up, don't wait for anything, if something is missing the slightest thing exclude it, there are plenty of things that are done done done that could constitute a major release at this point. This project used to produce a new version about once every year, then suddenly it stopped. What caused that change? Maybe you should switch over to the chrome release model like everyone else in the world (whether the should or not) has.
Do not take this as an insult or an attack, take it as an observation from your user base. Try to be at least as receptive as Microsoft. I might be a little sarcastic but am trying to be constructive here.
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I would love to release. We aren't waiting for everything.
However, I work hard on this stuff. Way too hard to sit and take a few backhanded comments about how you haven't been catered to correctly because you didn't get the release when you wanted it released.
We are working on the release. It will be released regardless of what else I want to finish. But your backhanded comments make me want to wait an extra few months just because. Lucky for you there are other team members who will work extra hard for you, dear sir.
EDIT: Let's put it this way. I could care a less how you justify being exceptionally rude. You can run logical circles around me to justify your rudeness. But I work for free. I don't work for people like you. You want something done, at least from me? You will have to be more polite because I simply won't care about what you want otherwise.
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OTOH, nothing is stopping anyone to make a mediavps-like mod with all the latest ships and effects posted and shared if such people are so inclined. If such a mod is clearly not called "mediavps 14" or some other confusing name, but a clearly distinct name, then I am absolutely guesstimating that no one would be annoyed.
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I would love to release. We aren't waiting for everything.
However, I work hard on this stuff. Way too hard to sit and take a few backhanded comments about how our process got broken when we decided to decouple it from FSO releases.
cock waving.
am I wrong in pointing out that this project has experienced a problem and you have not noticed it?
I did a little bit of searching and I got my answer as to what changed, BTW.
I am more than willing to stop the back handed comments now if you are. sorry my first entry into this was not of abject adoration, but it seriously was an unplanned unthought-through gut reaction to realizing what the situation is.
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Bobboau, altering your quote in such a matter is devolving to the level of a personal attack. And the moderating staff is making a concerted effort to clamp down on that now, so kindly knock it off.
You've been here long enough to know that the answer is always "when it's done". The process runs entirely on its own schedule, it can't easily predicted, and the time horizon often changes dramatically over the course of development. Asking for WIP screenshots or status reports is fine. Debating what models should be included and how they should be upgraded is fine. But continuing to pester the mod creators for a release, or a release date, after you've already been told that one isn't forthcoming is just being an anklebiter.
Take a look at the development history of ST:R, for example, which I summarized in timeline form in the campaign's readme file precisely for situations like this. ST:R suffered from schedule delays, feature creep, and staff burnout, and until the final year of development we couldn't predict the release date with any measure of accuracy. It was released much later than we thought it would, but it still got released. And as long as people are still working on the mediaVPs, they will eventually be released too.
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I would love to release. We aren't waiting for everything.
However, I work hard on this stuff. Way too hard to sit and take a few backhanded comments about how our process got broken when we decided to decouple it from FSO releases.
unhelpful stuff
better? was anything redacted there actually helpful? honestly? he's basically just calling me a petulant impatient child, or in other words jerking off to revenge fantasies trying to make himself feel better while completely ignoring me and dismissing me. I was trying to simply drop it.
I'm honestly not directing any of this to the artists. this is a management issue. It feels as though changes that were implemented in the management of this project several years ago have had a detrimental effect on it, and I am concerned.
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He stated that he was working on it and that it would be released. And he also said that he works for free, and therefore his motivation has a high degree of correlation with the rate of completion. So yes, that seems helpful.
If you want to discuss the management, then perhaps you should start a new thread and this time make it clear what you're asking. Because your posts came across as accusatory and impatient.
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For what it's worth, I understood what Bobboau was saying, I never saw his post being offensive in any way and I was honestly surprised at mjn.mixael's reaction. Maybe he could have worded his post a little better but come on, aren't you folks overreacting a bit?
FSU is always ongoing project and will never be finished. "When it's done" cannot apply to FSU, as it's never done. Expecting otherwise would be fool's errand and means we'd likely never see another release. Truth is that FSU has accumulated a lot of new assets since last release, worth several releases in fact. Bobboau and many others are wondering what's up, that's all.
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FSU has also released a lot of stuff, more than usual before releases. Turns out people could just get their fingers out of their collective asses and use them instead of *****ing about releases dates.
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FSU has also released a lot of stuff, more than usual before releases. Turns out people could just get their fingers out of their collective asses and use them instead of *****ing about releases dates.
There's also quite a lot of assets that we have that aren't released as well, too, so I'm not seeing your point. Not to mention I'm really of the opinion that we've waited too long, considering it's been three years since the last major release.
For what it's worth, I understood what Bobboau was saying, I never saw his post being offensive in any way and I was honestly surprised at mjn.mixael's reaction. Maybe he could have worded his post a little better but come on, aren't you folks overreacting a bit?
FSU is always ongoing project and will never be finished. "When it's done" cannot apply to FSU, as it's never done. Expecting otherwise would be fool's errand and means we'd likely never see another release. Truth is that FSU has accumulated a lot of new assets since last release, worth several releases in fact. Bobboau and many others are wondering what's up, that's all.
I agree with you.
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What about a public mediavps_beta svn, with the current state of assets ? (this question may be bit naive, I know there is a private mediavps svn already, but I don't know how much resources a svn instance takes on a server...)
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What about a public mediavps_beta svn, with the current state of assets ? (this question may be bit naive, I know there is a private mediavps svn already, but I don't know how much resources a svn instance takes on a server...)
Unfortunately, the server hosting our svn does not have the bandwidth to actually serve that many people, and we can't put it on the HLP server for pretty much the same reason.
Regarding the major debate: I too would prefer releasing now rather than later. There's always going to be assets that are unfinished or in the works, no matter how long we wait.
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I Actually made my own and update it with new ships.
That said, I am looking forward to a release (When it's done: With Oddgrim on a roll I wouldn't want to mess that up ;) )
Also, I find venting in private and then posting things in a calm rational manner much more helpful, Just saying
There is no emotion, There is peace
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At least 2 FSU members in this thread have said they'd like to release... I assume they are helping get the release ready, then? :p
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Is there a place where one can check an up to date asset status for FSU?
I do agree that I'd rather see a new release sooner, rather than later. Just mash what you have ready together, and be done with it!
On the other hand, being a BWO developer myself, I do understand the desire to have everything in pristine condition before releasing :P
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There are TWO stickied threads to show assets status.
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But are they exactly accurate\up to date?
I remember seeing them a year ago or so, but they weren't back then.
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Please for the love of Bosch check the threads. You'll see the one that I keep updated is up-to-date- as of April 2013 if you check the 'last edited' line at the bottom of the post.
So either you didn't think to check the 'last edited' line OR you didn't bother to look at the threads you KNEW existed since last year.
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As people said, with the huge influx of models and assets it is understandable not to rock the boat. But 3 years is a long time when so much has effort has already been done and is in dire need of being showcased to the community as a whole. SCP has made more of an effort to make more frequent releases as a means to keep things moving forward and keep people motivated. But SCP is rather abstract in what it does and for the most part, rather intangable. It is FSU that is the most visable part of the community and is the thing that evreyone gravatates to when ever Freespace and this community is mentioned. When a new SCP version pops out it may get a mention out side of the community but it falls on the by-road. Whenever a new FSU pops out, excitement for the community is at a all time high as well as a huge influx of new tallent and all the works of the SCP pays off. Just seems like missing out on an opportunity when there is such a large gap.
And thats the thing does declaring a freeze on this set of mediavps neccessarily mean all halt on what someone may be doing? Thats not the case with SCP with the 3.7 release candidates, why here?
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Please for the love of Bosch check the threads. You'll see the one that I keep updated is up-to-date- as of April 2013 if you check the 'last edited' line at the bottom of the post.
So either you didn't think to check the 'last edited' line OR you didn't bother to look at the threads you KNEW existed since last year.
Ah, those. Please forgive us, but since the "Last post" date is in 2011, most people (like me) will just not bother checking and assume that they're out of date. Any way we can do something about that, to maybe be a little clearer? Maybe a bump once in a while?
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=78413.0 (Also this one has a misleading title)
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73731.0
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'Changelog' is confusing? Well, whatever. It's a changelog.. it lists what's new since the last version.
Bumping a thread just cause it's been edited... a hearty no thanks on that. If people can't be arsed to check the threads, I suppose I can't be arsed to answer the question anymore. I'm barely motivated to keep the threads up-to-date as it is.... :doubt:
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I don't understand the trouble here, the threads are even stickied. From time to time I do check up on them, and I think it's an useful list. Anyway, I think that tangential conversation is not constructive at all, my 2 cents.
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I really don't see what the fuss is about regarding the asset thread. I made a question or 2, they were answered (although in a somewhat aggressive nature, but hey, it's the internetz). So there, problem solved!
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'Changelog' is confusing? Well, whatever. It's a changelog... it lists what's new since the last version.
"MediaVPs Changelog [A Heads-Up About How Mod Compatibility Will Be Affected]" makes it sound like it's more code-y stuff and less "hey new models!"
As for the other one, even though it's the "Current" assets thread, the last post is still in 2011. So for people like me who use last post date as a gauge, that is kind of confusing until you actually look at the thread itself and check the last edited date (which nobody really does without good reason).
I appreciate that those threads are there, I seriously didn't know that they were actually current until you pointed that out today. Even after you said that they were updated and stickied, it still took me over 30 seconds staring at the board to figure out which ones you were talking about.
Anyway, if you'd like to see fewer threads like this one, it couldn't hurt to make it a little more obvious that all the information we're looking for is already available, at a glance.
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Just another day in "people never read the goddamn stickies".
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Wouldn't it be great if some coder here at HLP could just make me an app for my google glasses telling me everything exactly what I wanted to know, not in codelanguage but rather in beautiful helvetica neue light, with a gorgeous design? I mean, scanning forums is soooo 90s. Î want Siri to tell me everything I am missing here, and apologize to me while doing it. I deserve it!
And come on, now seriously though, forget the google glasses, but not a single rotating icon of the ship in question in those tables? How come HLP still doesn't have native support for 3D so the FSU staff can place their models right on the tables themselves? This is outrageous. And *tablesª? What am I talking here? Tables are so programming-stuff like ****. You should do iOS-like cards, floating above the forum, each with Valathil-level warping effect and a rotating ship in it. It's the least you can do, as it is right now it's unreadable! What do you take us for? We are no Trinity or Neo!
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Wouldn't it be great if some coder here at HLP could just make me an app for my google glasses telling me everything exactly what I wanted to know, not in codelanguage but rather in beautiful helvetica neue light, with a gorgeous design? I mean, scanning forums is soooo 90s. Î want Siri to tell me everything I am missing here, and apologize to me while doing it. I deserve it!
And come on, now seriously though, forget the google glasses, but not a single rotating icon of the ship in question in those tables? How come HLP still doesn't have native support for 3D so the FSU staff can place their models right on the tables themselves? This is outrageous. And *tablesª? What am I talking here? Tables are so programming-stuff like ****. You should do iOS-like cards, floating above the forum, each with Valathil-level warping effect and a rotating ship in it. It's the least you can do, as it is right now it's unreadable! What do you take us for? We are no Trinity or Neo!
DO WANT! :lol:
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After correlating the two stickies, I still have no idea what we're waiting on other than Colossus normal maps, because neither thread indicates which models are ready for release - the tedius bit at the end of LODs, debris, and otherwise finalizing and testing the POF isn't tracked - not that we really need that level of detail, it'd just be nice to be able to watch a countdown to release (in number of models, not days).
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The MediaVPs Changelog sticky has a list on every ship changed for the future MediaVPS version. You can even click the name of the ship and see a pretty preview.
The other thread gives you the state of every ship in game, and I guess it's mostly aimed at people searching to contribute (I've certainly used it to get the picture of which model is most in need of improvement).
And let's cut the FSU team some slack. I'd like a new release too, but that's up for them to decide. It's too easy to just complain. If someone wants to speed up the process, get to work or else stop complaining. I do agree that "getting things perfect" is normally on the way of "getting things done". But I think that most people in HLP are well aware of this, and I certainly trust the FSU team's judgement on the matter.
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We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.
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We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.
Yeah.. this attitude makes me not want to do things for FSU. Guess I'll go work on my own mod for a while until you all relax a bit. I don't speak for the rest of the FSU team.. but my motivation to finish things has not been increased by this thread. I'd rather spend what free time I have on a project that's not privy to this crap.
EDIT: To be clear.. the basic problem is this. It does not matter what the project is. You all are not entitled to my free time or my hard work. Demanding that I work on something for you.. nah. Doing that and you will see how I will opt to spend my time and work on a project that is more gratifying... because there is rarely anything gratifying in giving into rudeness and demands.
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We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.
Yeah.. this attitude makes me not want to do things for FSU. Guess I'll go work on my own mod for a while until you all relax a bit. I don't speak for the rest of the FSU team.. but my motivation to finish things has not been increased by this thread. I'd rather spend what free time I have on a project that's not privy to this crap.
Indeed, while I would like to believe that phantom hoovers comment was not intended to be negative, I cannot interpret that as anything but : We have waited too long, I am entitled to view everything you have.
The thing is: Unless its released, it means its not ready yet. :/
Finally this is a free modding project everything we do, texture or model we do at on our spare alotted time, I should not be saying this but everyone involved are not in any way paid for our efforts. Nor can we held responsible for a set release date, or owe anyone but our sincerest creations, our labours of love one might say.
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We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.
I really don't understand the need for this kind of jerkiness. The work *is* accessible to the community. It's not as if this work is hidden in some batman cage where Mjn is the only man with the keys, most of the "HTL'd" ships that are done *are* released already, individually.
To make a new VP with them requires some work on itself, and this means you don't have to cut slack to anyone since you have no right to even be able to be in such a generous mood. IOW, the FSU people owe you precisely zero work hours. If you want it to be done ASAP because you are tired of waiting 3 plus years, then I'd recommend you do the remaining job and create your own mod with the new assets.
Personally I'd love for an interim release, I think it would be a great idea, but never crosses my mind to "cut" anyone "any" slack about it, demand anything, etc., for I never thought myself to be in a position where I could judge them at all. This is a hobby folks. And it's not even your hobby, it's other people's hobby.
PS: just another point. What's less fun about this is that a hobby is supposed to be fun. But I quite get Mjn's reaction, if people suddenly started demanding me **** for free in my hobby, it would stop being as much fun. And I have the tendency to forgo hobbies that aren't that much fun in exchange for others that are more, I'm guessing anyone else will do the same.
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And let's cut the FSU team some slack. I'd like a new release too, but that's up for them to decide. It's too easy to just complain. If someone wants to speed up the process, get to work or else stop complaining. I do agree that "getting things perfect" is normally on the way of "getting things done". But I think that most people in HLP are well aware of this, and I certainly trust the FSU team's judgement on the matter.
This. Now can we all please just shut up and move on before someone pisses off the FSU guys even more? This discussion doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
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You're right, I shouldn't have chipped in; because this thread has just become the standard mess of defensive accusations of 'entitlement'. No, I am not demanding anything from you. If you didn't want to work on new assets, or you couldn't find the time to collate them into a new set of VPs, I would completely understand. But neither of these seem to be the case. You're sitting atop a pile of apparently-completed models, and yet you've completely stopped releasing them; and the only explanation I've seen is that the next MVPs will be released 'when they're done' (which is, as pointed out earlier in this thread, an unattainable goal).
I mean, don't you want people to enjoy your work? I just want to know why you're following this policy which doesn't seem to have any benefit for anyone.
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I think I can answer that, Phantom.
The media VPs are HUGE. If you've ever looked inside, there are dozens of folders, tables, components, sounds, effects and all sorts of stuff.
Adding one ship to a mod is easy. Adding dozens of new ones, all with slight differences from the ones they're replacing, making sure that the tables are all still compatible and functional together, and making sure that whatever animations and effects play nice with whatever goes before is a huge task.
If the FSU project has already started this task, but they know that a few new models will be available very soon, wouldn't it make sense to wait until they're done so as to roll all the effort together? That way, they wouldn't need to start over and make a whole new VP release when Oddgrimm finishes all the Vasudan ships in like a month.
tl;dr - Releasing Media VPs is a massive task that's very different from just making a model and releasing it.
I for one am happy to trust the FSU Project's judgement, and really appreciate everything they do.
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Except they used to release new MVPs regularly! I'm asking honestly, did they decide they couldn't keep up with that workload any more? As for incorporating new models, there will always be a few assets just around the corner. Saying "right, everything that comes after this deadline will wait 'til the next release" is an unavoidable part of doing incremental releases like this.
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But there is a good number of ships that will be part of the next mediavps that are already up for download. Stuff like the Arcadia, Medusa, Rakshasa and more.
It's not as if they're hoarding them, and as quite a few others have said, nothing stops you from putting together your own impromptu set.
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I'm not accusing them of hoarding them, I just don't get why the FSU team don't really seem to care whether people can easily use their models. I mean, did you spend all this time working on them just for them to sit on p3d and some filehosting sites, only to be enjoyed by the handful of users with the know-how and motivation to manually install all the new HTLs that've piled up?
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So would you like a tutorial on how to install these upgraded models?
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No, because that's completely aside from the point. Jesus, why even have any MVPs at all if that's the attitude you're going to have? Why not just have a big list of model release threads, and tell noobs to install each and every one by hand as part of the standard FSO install process?
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Here's a though: Release the next MediaVPs in parts. Put the stuff available now and release it. Later, once all the ships are done, you can release a MVP Complete.
Or... you can be unhelpful to those of us that have trouble surfing these damn forums looking for each model to download manually. Thus not getting them, thus making them nothing more than an esoteric trophy.
EDIT: Here's a more constructive idea: Give me a link to every model and I will make a pseudo-Media VP for the uninitiated.
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Eeeeasy there, Phantom Hoover. We're going to go all over this again when the next mediavps do get released. Mediavps get released, Oddgrim releases a new HTL cargo container and releases it for the "handful" of people to install themselves. But apparently 99% of the people that don't know how to install it will get grumpy again and start this thread.
If education is a problem, then something should be done to help people keep up to date in the interim.
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The thing is, we aren't talking about having a couple of nice models that won't make it into the MVPs for maybe a year here. We're talking about three years worth of assets, representing god knows how many man-hours of work, which are currently just sitting around in random threads in this board. For god's sake, look at this list (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73731.0). For one thing, there is absolutely no clear demarcation between models in the 2010 VPs and models released since; so you're basically expected to figure that out yourself from thread dates I guess. For another, at a rough estimate there are at least a dozen, maybe two dozen, new models there. That is just far too many to reasonably expect anyone to manually install, and I cannot believe that you consider doing so to still be an acceptable stop-gap.
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As I already said, the updated models list is this one: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=78413.0 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=78413.0)
An4ximandros, the released models AFAIK are the Amun, Arcadia, Artemis, Artemis D.H., Boanerges, Ma'at, Isis, Medusa, Mentu, Seth, Osiris, Ptah, Rakshasa, Sathanas, Sekhmet and Sobek. From the latest FSU port you can also get a new Hades, Typhon, Dragon and Scorpion.
Also, for released models, you can go into the wiki for the ship and at the end of the article there's generally a download link under "modding resources" or something like that.
I do remember having some issues with the Medusa engine glows for some time 'till I found the solution in the same release thread.
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Oh, thanks for that. I guess I was wrong about having to work it out from thread dates (but the rest of what I said still stands, in case anyone wants to fixate on that).
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Ok using that kind of tone is going to get you no where fast, Axem has shown remarkable patience answering you with civility and I applaud him for that. The FSU team hasn't as you say hoarded any models and has been really forthright with releasing assets as they have been completely finished and tested, I dare you to find another mod team that has done the same. Comments like the ones you have been making are counter productive and very discouraging. Before you post why don't ask yourself if I was a member of a mod team and had people talking to me like that would I really bust my ass working on my own free time to give them some thing or just walk away and not work on anything for a while.
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From the latest FSU port you can also get a new Hades, Typhon, Dragon Shaitan and Scorpion.
Correction.
And talking of issues even the Artemis and Boanerges have issues. (LOD1 of Artemis doesnt have glass and LOD1 of Boanerges has engine texture on its front.
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I'll repeat "There is no emotion, there is peace"
Seriously it's one thing to whine about changes in something you pay for, but all these guys (who are doing fantastic work, BTW) Have this thing called Real Life.
They are NOT paid to do this, Except in the satisfaction of a job well done and the respect of the community.
Take that away and the next mediaVPs will come out AFTER Half-life 3.
Always Respect and maybe offer help.
If you don't want to respect, and still want product, I'm sure at least some of these guys take PayPal :) :yes:
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Talking about pay-for-work at HLP is more or less taboo. We are a community centered around the enjoyment of modding, so once a modder gets paid for his contribution here, what makes HLP unique will simply dissolve into another Kickstarter venture. We do not want that...
R
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I guess nobody's actually interested in the concerns I'm raising. I suppose it is much more fun and self-affirming to reply to someone who's slinging abuse at you for refusing to work for free for their enjoyment, even if nobody's actually said anything of the sort.
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I guess nobody's actually interested in the concerns I'm raising. I suppose it is much more fun and self-affirming to reply to someone who's slinging abuse at you for refusing to work for free for their enjoyment, even if nobody's actually said anything of the sort.
Well... that's one way to ignore everyone's completely valid points.
I'm betting you could care a less or that you'll turn it around and tell me I'm being stupid or something.. but whatever. The truth's the truth whether you want to believe it or not, so let me spell it out for you. I'm am currently NOT (N-O-T) working on FSU simply because of your posts and a few others. If you guys feel like you are so entitled to my time to be this rude about it, then meh. I've got other things I can work on.
So, if the MediaVPs take longer than expected to release and it's because I'm busy with other things, you all can thank guys like Phantom Hoover. Hopefully for the rest of you, the FSU team can get along fine without me for a bit.
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To put some official tone to all this jaw-flapping and what have you:
It's been busy for a lot of folks. That's just in general. I forget who posted it now, but somebody had to go and spell out that they attended college, got, lost and got another job, moved, etc. What, like they were the ONLY busy ones in this entire forum? Cause frankly, aside from the moving part, I did exactly all of that myself. And Mjn and RGA have both had kids. We've had people leave, we've had a few prospective members show up, we've had promises of work that never materialized, etc. And at the end of the day, it's irrelevant.
This is a community project, but that doesn't mean that the community can -demand- what isn't possible nor is within their RIGHTS, because they don't have any. Other than the right to do it yourself if you're so inclined and be recognized for having accomplished it if you do.
That being said, yes, we are well aware that we are past due for a Release, and we very sincerely wish to address that and get one done.
But it's not going to be made any easier for us to do if people keep pissing off my team members by being self-entitled twits about the whole thing. Relax. Waiting is, and those that do, good things will happen.
(and if anybody can't relax, I'm a proficient at providing masseuse (massage) therapy with large hammers, including the type that grant time off for bad behaviour)
If you have any direct actual issues that you would like to raise that are not in the "I'm self entitled to you most make an update" variety, by all means feel free to prod me in PM. We enjoy and encourage creative and constructive feedback and information and we have a Mantis that is really more than useful when people actually report things on it.
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I'm new to the community and I don't know much about its recent history, so if I'm missing something here or being unfair, please do tell me, but all this sounds pretty unfair and I feel the need to voice what's in my mind...
I suppose we could even pay the FSU guys for their efforts but don't you think then it would become just another work for them? A labour of love always has the best results. I thought this was a modding community and everyone here did it just for the fun... Otherwise, something's wrong. I don't think Phantom Hoover is being rude/ungrateful, insensitive maybe, but rude, no. I actually find most of his posts pretty reasonable and you've got to admit he raises some valid points. I don't know how the members of the community have been to the FSU team in the past but some of you seem to snap so easily when someone asks how things are going, it's like you have post-traumatic stress...
I like freespace and I think everything you as a community have accomplished is fantastic. I'd like freespace to get even better as much as everyone here, but if any of you feels like doing it is a waste of time, that would make me sad but I would not want you to continue doing it like it is some sacrifice for the community. I've always thought modding should be about fun more than anything else, but I'm pretty new to modding in general and maybe I just don't quite understand what really motivates the people here...
And call me dumb but I've got to say I visit these forums almost daily to keep a watch on updates, and I also had no idea that the thread I should have been looking at to see what was coming on the next VPs and how they are doing is "MediaVPs Changelog [A Heads-Up About How Mod Compatibility Will Be Affected]". Yes, it's got "changelog" in the title but the talk about mod compatibility did mislead me, and seeing someone with a post count that simply dwarfs mine being mislead the same way too says a lot. I think a better job could be done to keep the average VPs user informed, namely about the VPs current status and how to use what is completed but not yet officially released. Besides, if there is some miscommunication can you really blame anyone for posts like the ones here?
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iVoid: An excellent point can be made that we could be a little more up to speed on providing updates, even if those updates are nothing more than "nothing to currently report, still no eta's at this time" so I do see the point behind having some clarification as to what's being done (or not done) in general.
But the fact of the matter is that most people, while intending well enough, don't seem to be able to genuinely present that in a way that doesn't somehow end up raising some sort of hackles somehow. So, when I get to come into the situation of being told that people are getting pissed and/or when members tell me they under the impression of being attacked for trying to present what should already be an obvious condition to people that should already know what the score is, there is inevitably going to be a defensive element.
As has already been pointed out, the MediaVPs are indeed massive. And the last two releases have been plagued with issues right out of the gates of Release, so pardon me if I just wanted to make sure that we didn't continue that streak for a 3rd time running. We also have the consideration to make of there being mods that have gotten broken through their own interpretation of how to properly use the MediaVPs (that isn't technically proper in the slightest) and wanting to make sure we've made best possible effort to prevent that, which also means making sure that we can do initial beta-style testing before release, since we cannot play all the mods ourselves. At the very least, being able to head's up folks on any potential breakages sounds to me like a great idea.
As for "interim" releases, as this is a community project, anybody could have collected together any combination of currently Released individual works and made a bolt-on "2013_ShipsPack.vp" and we'd have heartily endorsed it. May even well have helped more positively motivated progress, but seeing as how most of our lack of progress has come more from the vast majority of us being busy with Real Life issues more than anything else, maybe not.
Also, we very well know that the MediaVPs and the FSU's task is never going to be one that is ever "done", period end of statement. We'd already staged exactly when and where our cutoff was going to happen and focus on getting that work done and for the most part, it was. It just took a fair bit longer than anybody expected because it really is amazing at just how fast time can fly when you are incredibly busy.
So yes, when Bob and Phantom decide that they want to break out with their commentary, it's not the gist of what they are saying that is making it through, but how they've decided to present what they are saying that makes it come across in an entitled fashion that causes for the situational stress levels to rise, as has been witnessed.
So, to re-iterate: A Release is indeed being planned, and we are going to be putting the pieces together. An exact date is not yet set, but I'm rather hopeful that we can have something within the next month or two, possibly three at the outside. _I_ will provide more updates to that timetable when they are available.
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In the meantime, one thing I do agree with is that we probably could be a bit clearer with how the already publicly-released individual models are labeled or presented. That could be something as simple as changing the thread title, or maybe consolidating two of those stickied threads into one.
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The change log needs to remain separate from the assets sticky.
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As a longstanding member of the community who has just bought my first house with my fiancee and moved in TODAY, I agree with Žacam.
The ONLY guaranteed way to see more progress is to take ownership and make a contribution yourself. Pick up Blender or GIMP or FRED. All of us would be happy to help you learn and provide constructive feedback and praise. And it will give you some appreciation for what it is we do, and how, and why it takes years to do.
Our incentives dwell within ourselves. They're not externally motivated. Find that desire to improve within yourself. Let your consumption impulses turn to creation. If you look at something and think "This could be better" you can think "I could make it better." You have more tools than any of us had when we grognards started out, with TrueSpace and ModelView32. If you want new content that badly, make some. It's tremendously rewarding! And it will build empathy with other content creators, too.
We don't have an audience. We have a community. And we'd like you to be a part of it. Thank you.
This is Galemp, signing off.
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Just to be clear, I find all this unfair not because "oh noes we'll have to wait longer!", but because of the way you seem to react. It's good to hear you find your motivation from within yourselves but then why do you seem to lose your motivation so easily when you think someone in the community doesn't appreciate your work? Seems a little contradictory... Mjn's position for example seems to be like "you owe me! you have some nerve talking like that", it's like he's keeping a scoreboard... The members who expressed criticism here were pretty polite and constructive, I don't think this attitude is justified at all... Again, I don't want sacrifice from any of you, I don't want nothing from any of you, if you're not having fun then I'm sorry you feel that way but maybe you should think about why do you do this.
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Just to be clear, I find all this unfair not because "oh noes we'll have to wait longer!", but because of the way you seem to react. It's good to hear you find your motivation from within yourselves but then why do you seem to lose your motivation so easily when you think someone in the community doesn't appreciate your work? Seems a little contradictory... Mjn's position for example seems to be like "you owe me! you have some nerve talking like that", it's like he's keeping a scoreboard... The members who expressed criticism here were pretty polite and constructive, I don't think this attitude is justified at all... Again, I don't want sacrifice from any of you, I don't want nothing from any of you, if you're not having fun then I'm sorry you feel that way but maybe you should think about why do you do this.
^This. He has a point.
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I do it because it's fun. Crap threads like this? People feeling entitled to make me work on their schedule? Not fun. Spin it however you like.
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Background on me, I just started playing FS 2 a few months ago, and started playing FSO a couple weeks ago. That said, these guys work on this for free, out of the goodness of their hearts. Maybe it has been a long time since the last mediavps were released, so? To those complaining: if you don't like the fact that its been a while, get off your lazy butt and compile what's been finished so far. Heck, some of these guys *might* help you. Threads like this only sap THEIR motivation to continue. If I had to deal with people like you on top of real life; forget it buddy, your on your own.
Rant over.
If I may ask, what is the current status of the next MediaVPs?
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This is Galemp, signing off.
NNOOOoo!! We need you!
...or are you just being dramatic :nervous:
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I was trying to leave this be, but... mjn, your attitude throughout this thread, culminating in an incredibly precious attempt to spite me by holding your work on FSU ransom, says far more about your own sense of entitlement to unwavering praise and sycophancy for working on a mod project for free than about me. Yes, I do realise how much work the team puts into this project. No, I don't expect you to put that work ahead of your own lives and enjoyment. But that doesn't mean I can't criticise your development practices when they seem nonsensical and detrimental to both this project and this community.
Zacam, thank you for that explanation. I can at least understand why you're running things this way, even if I don't necessarily agree with parts of it.
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I do it because it's fun. Crap threads like this? People feeling entitled to make me work on their schedule? Not fun. Spin it however you like.
You don't seem to understand at all... People here have made very valid points about what the FSU team could do better, but what you seem to be doing is dismissing any criticism by pretending all they've said was "RELEASE NAO!", and that isn't true at all... Valid points made on this thread (tell me if I missed any):
1) A better job could be done at keeping the community informed to the status of the mediaVPs. Otherwise is it any wonder that threads like this pop up every once in a while?
2) Are bigger but less frequent updates the way to go or should smaller more frequent updates be done? Even if all the new stuff is available before the new release there is no denying that the mediaVPs have a huge impact in the community. And whatever the course of action chosen, it should be made crystal clear to the community, or (again) risk having to go over this every once in a while.
3) All the completed assets should be available to download (it isn't the case for all of them). It would probably also help to have a well organized thread with all the new stuff that is completed (with download links, instead of links to huge confusing threads where sometimes you need to search the entire thread for the download link).
4) A tutorial on how to use the new assets available for download would also be a good idea.
Better communication between the team and the community will ensure that threads like this never pop up. I'm not demanding anything, this is not exactly a favor you'd be doing for the community, this is common sense: do you prefer to waste time and energy replying to threads like this and then getting mad, or wouldn't it be better to say all this stuff only ONCE, and if a thread like this ever pops up all you have to do is post a link to a thread where you already explain all of this, and you can then only invest time and energy on the fun part?
The rest of the community can help you organise all this of course, but not without the help of the team...
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Nah, I'm not into hand holding. There are threads that explain how to install things. There are threads that explain the status of things. The laziness of the community browse through those threads is the problem there. As for the rest.. I don't answer to you guys. And no, I'm not holding my work ransom.. I just don't feel like doing anything to reward this sort of behavior. If the rest of the FSU team wants to, fine. But I'm not going to suddenly bend over backwards to push out a release or to make yet another 'assets' thread or to write another 'tutorial' thread because you guys can't be arsed to do it yourself.
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It's really easy to just blame others without admitting a single mistake or that something could be done better. As it is now it really is a bit confusing, the proof is the number of people here who are asking for the status of the mediaVPs. Not to mention that not all the information I mentioned is actually available. Anyway that's your choice, have fun with threads like this in the future then.
As I said, the rest of the community could help organise that stuff, but how could that ever be possible if everytime a member of the community asked a team member something we got this sort of reaction?
I also have to agree with what Phantom Hoover said too, I'm not a native english speaker and I couldn't have put it more eloquently.
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Let's go back the shall we? To the beginning of my major issue...
We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.
This is not OK. You never, ever have any right to my work until I say so. Period. End of discussion. It's my work and I'll release it when I damn well please and to whomever I please. Now, if you guys had made something for FSU and were wanting to know when it will be released officially, that's be different. As it is, you guys are just wanting to get your giggles from new shinies the moment you saw an opportunity to ask for them again. Suck it up and move on, because if anything, you are most definitely hindering a MediaVPs release. Even if you aren't hindering, this thread is clearly not helping.
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I agree, asking for your work before you want to share it is not ok. But that's not what he was asking for... He was asking for a release of the mediaVPs, which only has to contain the work that the people who worked on it are ready to share. Two very different things.
And I also think asking for a release date from people who work for fun is not ok. That extra pressure makes it less fun and the motivation will go away. But it is also one thing to ask how things are doing, and another different thing to ask for a release date. You're mixing it all up... In the specific case you pointed out that wasn't the case but there were others who were reasonable and didn't ask for a release and they got the same treatment.
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I have only been responding to phantom hoover and bobboau.
What makes asking for a group's work any different from an individuals? Where do you draw the line? Two people on one model? 3 people on a set of models? When does it become OK to start demanding updates and releases?
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What line? The MediaVPs are by definition a collection of all the work that is ready to release, if you don't want to release your work yet then it isn't ready, but the mediaVPs have other people's work too that might be ready, right? Don't you think you might have jumped to conclusions?
And is it really a surprise that people are impatient after so long when it's hard to understand what the status of the mediaVPs is? Lack of communication IS a problem. Most of the people here aren't just being whiny brats demanding a release, they're trying to be constructive and identify the problems here but you don't seem to be open to criticism/feedback.
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You guys keep ignoring the fact that stickied thread exist. It was clearly pointed out here that people just aren't reading them. Either one. Not my problem you guys aren't doing your part of the communication.
The MediaVPs are a collection of work. But those of us on the team spend a lot of time making sure it's as beautiful and bug-free as possible. That's our work. If we aren't ready then we aren't ready.
I'm still wanting to know how you think this is helpful anymore. Do you think I'm going to bend over and say 'you know what, you're right. Why don't I take time out of my life to do everything you ever wanted. I'll make another assets thread. I'll make get a release ready. Don't know how to install everything? Sure, I'll just go ahead and make instructions for you. Ooooooooh, you just didn't want to go find the models that have been release. Yeah, no problem. I've got all the time in the world to search the board for you, pick out the download links and format that all into simple list of links for you.'
Yeah... no. Go do it yourself. I don't have that kind of time, nor, after this crap would I even want to. When people weren't being all entitled and rude, I kindly gave them the same answers. See here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84519.0) and here. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84832.msg1695186#msg1695186) But you just keep puuuuushing and puuuushing. What. The. Hell. Do. You. Actually. Want.
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lol what happened is that I couldn't possibly stay quiet when you were so unfair to phantom and many of us. Whatever man, I'm tired of this talk, I said what's in my mind and you'll only hear what you want to hear, your work is perfect everything's fine and there is absolutely nothing we could change to make things work better. There, we're all in agreement now.
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you'll only hear what you want to hear
Indeed
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Sigh... I meant it in regards of listening to criticism. You just proved my point...
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Well, that went well...
Thing is, as this thread shows, it's so easy for concerns to ratchet themselves up to the point where they do nothing but harm.
For those of you who want to lend a hand to the FSU to get a new VP together and released, I'd suggest starting at the Wiki :
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Portal:Modding
And using the tutorials posted in the Modding section :
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70249.0
On the other side of the coin, yes, FSU could be handled better, so could most mods, so could the SCP itself, there's always room for improvement when a large, disparate group of people are doing a project, and the FSU is probably one of the most community-centric projects on HLP. FSU is not one person, or one project, it's a collection from many people working at different speeds and on different things. That sort of project is very difficult to centralize, especially when the contributors have lives outside the project.
Maybe a little less frustration and a little more concern is needed from one side, and a little more coherence and centralization is required on the other, I don't know, but what I do know is that the line between motivating and pushing is in different places for different people, and getting annoyed is just going to make something that should be about giving to the community into something that damages it instead, and that helps no-one at all.
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Man what really angers me about this thread is that I *really* wanted to go inside the FSU waters and work my ass off into modelling, texturing, all that crap, and help the team. I do have the talent and the know-hows. I just don't have the time. I don't even play games anymore. RGA has had his first son, well I have three and lots of family issues I have to deal with plus a really hard job that takes more than its due. And then I have to read to a lot of people here who clearly have the time to even play games, ***** and moan that they aren't being taken seriously enough, that their demands aren't being met, etc., etc. It's like god gives coconuts to people without teeth or something.
/rant
Oh and iVoid, come on. You are clearly not liking Mjn's tone, but have you looked at the mirror? Just look at this comment of yours:
You don't seem to understand at all... People here have made very valid points about what the FSU team could do better, but what you seem to be doing is dismissing any criticism by pretending all they've said was "RELEASE NAO!", and that isn't true at all... Valid points made on this thread (tell me if I missed any):
1) A better job could be done at keeping the community informed to the status of the mediaVPs. Otherwise is it any wonder that threads like this pop up every once in a while?
2) Are bigger but less frequent updates the way to go or should smaller more frequent updates be done? Even if all the new stuff is available before the new release there is no denying that the mediaVPs have a huge impact in the community. And whatever the course of action chosen, it should be made crystal clear to the community, or (again) risk having to go over this every once in a while.
3) All the completed assets should be available to download (it isn't the case for all of them). It would probably also help to have a well organized thread with all the new stuff that is completed (with download links, instead of links to huge confusing threads where sometimes you need to search the entire thread for the download link).
4) A tutorial on how to use the new assets available for download would also be a good idea.
Better communication between the team and the community will ensure that threads like this never pop up. I'm not demanding anything, this is not exactly a favor you'd be doing for the community, this is common sense: do you prefer to waste time and energy replying to threads like this and then getting mad, or wouldn't it be better to say all this stuff only ONCE, and if a thread like this ever pops up all you have to do is post a link to a thread where you already explain all of this, and you can then only invest time and energy on the fun part?
The rest of the community can help you organise all this of course, but not without the help of the team...
Where is this "rest of the community" and notice that part where I bolded. This is what drives people nuts. You state (on and on) that you aren't "demanding" anything, and yet you've just listed 4 things you demanded of the FSU team! Regarding point 3, that is not a true state of affairs. Almost every single release thread has its download button on the very first post of that thread. If you are not bothered to do these simple things.... come on do you see the point? If your problem is that there aren't threads that could be so much simpler and so on, then go ahead and write them! This is not a snide remark, it's an actual advice! This is how communities do things. They just step up and do what they feel is missing out, they do not demand of others.
IOW, tl dr, "ask not what the FSU can do for you, ask what you can do for the FSU".
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Yes, I did get a bit carried away, I apologise. But it is one thing to make suggestions and another completely different thing to do demands and I did not make demands. I also made those suggestions to get your opinions. Do you think it would be worth it or not? Mjn's opinion is clearly that there is no such thing as a communication problem, does everybody else agree? It wouldn't make sense to just start without even asking, and debating is what threads are for, is it not? If nobody else is then yes, I am willing to make those threads to help out, but I won't do it if when I ask a member of the FSU team about the status of something they snap so easily... I can understand getting angry about people saying stupid stuff like simply "UPDATE NOW!", but getting worked up when people are trying to be reasonable? Some members of the team seem very oversensitive.
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Okay, so for starters: This thread isn't getting locked, people asking for it to be, just stop.
mjn.mixael: go take a break. Enjoy some sunshine. Play with your kids. I get your point and where you are coming from, but now it's getting a little out of hand in here, so take a breather.
Phantom Hoover: Whether or not anybody agrees on anything (much less to disagree) is irrelephant, but thank you for the reply anyway. We do want updates and progress out there just as badly as you do, but that doesn't stop us from being busy folk in our own right. As I mentioned, with the exception of moving, I've dealt with everything Bob did and then some.
iVoid and everybody else: FSU as a group, we're gatekeepers for the most part. That the majority of us are also content creators has been an unimaginable bonus as of late, but it hasn't always the case. We're just these people, doing this thing. And that doesn't mean that we have to be the only ones ever doing anything.
Because at the end of the day, it is a community project. Anybody and everybody can volunteer whatever, whenever. So in some regards, some of us are going to be a little sensitive to complaints that we're not getting everything done when people expect it, because it is rather frustrating feeling like we're the only ones that care when we're the only ones that are the ones doing it.
As previously mentioned, while not optimal, anybody else could have put together a VP collection of all the currently released ships into a bolt-on VP for the existing MediaVPs as a "tide folk over" effort, general good will, whatever.
What's out there right now is out there to be used, which is why it's out there. While what we are doing is very fairly large, putting a few ships into a package would be a wonderful way (and a vital part) of getting people used to the other parts of content creation and distribution, especially if they can eloquently and politely address "newcomer" shortfalls in the system that we have already gotten used to or adapted in such a way as to forget.
Given that tempuratures inside and outside have been rising of late, I'll be more than happy to continue engaging on any further conversation on this issue, which is why I feel it is important that it stays open. We'll address internally what we feel we need to, no worries about that. But as for what is external, lets discuss it, shall we?
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Of the ships in the MediaVPs Changelog sticky, would I be right in saying that the:
Charybdis
Colossus
Poseidon
TC2
TSC2
Cerebus
Watchdog
Alastor
TTC1
Hermes
VAC4
Aeshma
Basilisk
Dragon
Nahema
Nephilim
Rakshasa
Taurvi
Astaroth
Trident
Belial
Shivan Comm Node
Are unfinished or currently unavailable?
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Rakshasa is definitively available.
I think you also missed the Knossos as a finished but unavailable asset.
EDIT - see below
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Knossos is available here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=72377.msg1443927#msg1443927), it's not in the MediaVPs changelog though, any reason for that? Not accepted by FSU?
Ah, just found the rakshasa. Looks sweet.
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Those download links for the Knossos don't appear to be working anymore.
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Those download links for the Knossos don't appear to be working anymore.
Huh, they are working for me right now. :confused:
Check again 'coz I can't attach it due to the size limit.
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I can't test the link right now but if it doesn't work I'm pretty sure the new knossos is included in ASW 2.
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Well I downloaded it today, converted the pngs to dds's, then spent a while mucking around the F3 lab trying to force catalyst to do AA on the darn thing (I gave up) so yeah, it worked for me.
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the F3 lab trying to force catalyst to do AA on the darn thing (I gave up)
In FSO you're stuck with shader based anti-aliasing. At the moment FSO only offers FXAA, but perhaps one day they will include SMAA too.
Some people claim they've managed to get some form of driver controlled AA to work with Nvidia cards, but never seen any proof of it working on AMD cards. At one point I thought supersampling AA worked, but no dice.
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I can't speak to all the assets on that list but the ones I've had a hand in have been collaborative efforts and while most of those are done and fairly well tested by now they have not been released to the public yet. I think that has more to do with the way in which they were developed than just us holding on to them. You will notice that those assets that have been released have had only one or two authors at most and thus permission and credit is easier to dish out and the developers have more control over when and how they are released. A lot of those Shivan assets where collaborative efforts made between myself, and both the Inferno and FSU teams before I joined either of them so releasing them outside the media vp's is complicated.
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FTR I haven't looked at this forum since my last post.
I do not get why the FSU SVN is private, I mean I get why anonymous commits are forbidden obviously, but I don't get why anyone cannot get the unstable MVPs (source files) at any time for any reason. this is not like most other projects, everything in it is known and publicly available, there are no plot twists or surprises. As has been said we can hypothetically make them ourselves. so why the secrecy? it would be a hell of a lot easier for people to contribute if they could get working copies of the development files in their current state. FSO is open source, why isn't the FSU? I think that would address a number of issues.
I think it might be a good idea for FSU to move to a multichannel release process, similar to how chrome does it (http://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel) this might practically speaking require transitioning to git, but the benefits are you would have a much smoother and regular release cycle (this makes management easier for YOU, all of the big companies moving to a rapid release cycle is NOT just a fashion trend). you would have a stable branch, a bugfix branch, and a dev branch. all new work is done on the dev branch. bugfixes happen in bugfix, when bugfixes are ready to be released they get merged into stable, and then stable gets merged back into dev. stable will be the state of the last publicly released MVP set, bugfix would be what beta testers use and dev would be what developers use (except in the case of major version releases, in which case beta testers would use dev, or a release candidate branch could be used). keep in mind all of this could be completely automated and managed simply by applying tags to a commit.
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I do not get why the FSU SVN is private, I mean I get why anonymous commits are forbidden obviously, but I don't get why anyone cannot get the unstable MVPs (source files) at any time for any reason. this is not like most other projects, everything in it is known and publicly available, there are no plot twists or surprises. As has been said we can hypothetically make them ourselves. so why the secrecy? it would be a hell of a lot easier for people to contribute if they could get working copies of the development files in their current state. FSO is open source, why isn't the FSU? I think that would address a number of issues.
Because of bandwidth limitations. Those who use Zacam's SVN for their projects experience slow download/upload speed frequently. If you allow public access to even one of the big projects, the remaining bandwidth disappears and causes grief to project members trying to do their work. Not to mention to Zacam and rev_posix themselves.
I think it might be a good idea for FSU to move to a multichannel release process, similar to how chrome does it (http://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel) this might practically speaking require transitioning to git, but the benefits are you would have a much smoother and regular release cycle (this makes management easier for YOU, all of the big companies moving to a rapid release cycle is NOT just a fashion trend). you would have a stable branch, a bugfix branch, and a dev branch. all new work is done on the dev branch. bugfixes happen in bugfix, when bugfixes are ready to be released they get merged into stable, and then stable gets merged back into dev. stable will be the state of the last publicly released MVP set, bugfix would be what beta testers use and dev would be what developers use (except in the case of major version releases, in which case beta testers would use dev, or a release candidate branch could be used). keep in mind all of this could be completely automated and managed simply by applying tags to a commit.
It would, no doubt about that. But the problem is, where would you host the svn (or any other kind of version control), how much it would cost and who would pay for it? SVN however is still most suitable in handling game assets that consists mostly of binary files. More so than Git anyway.
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How large are the MVPs, even without all the source files and testing subfolders you guys are sure to have ? 4-ish GB ? Triple that at least with aforementioned source files and subfolders.
Yeah, that's not gonna work nice on a public svn, unless you get it hosted on Google's own servers.
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A current "build" of the mvps with all the bells and whistles runs to ~5 GB of data.
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where would you host the svn (or any other kind of version control), how much it would cost and who would pay for it?
is there any current information on any of these questions? list of hosts and how much they would cost? or is this a complete unknown?
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Yeah, go Google it and then tell us how much you are paying for.
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Talking about pay-for-work at HLP is more or less taboo. We are a community centered around the enjoyment of modding, so once a modder gets paid for his contribution here, what makes HLP unique will simply dissolve into another Kickstarter venture. We do not want that...
R
Exactly my point, though I may not have been clear. This thread had seemed to devolve into a complaining fest, by some, about how people (with jobs and families and lives) were not going fast enough to suit the posters. This is a community, not an "Everybody do things to please me" blog site.
However it's good to see things have calmed down :)
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Of the ships in the MediaVPs Changelog sticky, would I be right in saying that the:
Charybdis
Colossus
Poseidon
TC2
TSC2
Cerebus
Watchdog
Alastor
TTC1
Hermes
VAC4
Aeshma
Basilisk
Dragon
Nahema
Nephilim
Rakshasa
Taurvi
Astaroth
Trident
Belial
Shivan Comm Node
Are unfinished or currently unavailable?
Other than those on that list, I've also been unable to find working download links for the following ones:
Hades
Typhon
Osiris
Mara
Seraphim
Can anyone please confirm this?
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Hades and Typhon are on the latest FSPort-MVP and the Osiris is the FSPort-Upgrade subforum: Download it now! (http://www.mediafire.com/?9ol1ia4s3wxdmi4).
Mara and Seraphim have not been released AFAIK.
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Hey guys. Couldn't stand the synthesized voice for FSPort, so I got out my original FS1 disks and with the VP tools started looking for the original voice files. I ended up extracting basically the whole contents of the data file (from multiple VPs). I merged it with the extracted files from the FSPort VPs and kept the FSP files in place of the retail files, but using the retail files to fill in the blanks. Now I figured out how to make a VP but since I did all this merging and extracting, is there a way to force the program to use the contents of my data file rather than the provided VPs or could I force it to use a custom VP and how would I do that? Also would the files conflict with the same files in other VPs?
Also, since a non existant FS1 soundtrack was mentioned, I managed to extract all the music from the original retail VPs and could easily compile it into either a data file with MP3s or OGGs or FLACs. Have some really good media editing software and dying to try it out.
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I'm confused. You had Text-To-Speech with FSPort instead of the voice files? Sounds like you were missing warble.vp, which is a part of the FSPort release. It contains all of the voices that you just ripped and then some.
Missing FS1 soundtrack? Unlikely. The FSPort team has been working with Dan Wentz, the original FS Composer to get newer, hi quality versions of the music from FS1. As I recall, he also filled out a couple tracks that were mean/used in Silent Threat. But even before Dan came along, the FSPort team included all of the music from FS1 in their mod.
All that still leaves me wondering why you had to necro a year+ old thread for this. Not only that, but how does your post relate to this thread at all?