Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: whitearrow on June 18, 2013, 04:37:46 am
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Hi guys,
I'm going to order components for a new pc. My primary activity will be related to photo-retouching, but I also like playing FS2. Do I need a dedicated graphic card to play e.g. Blue Planet mod series at highest settings? Is the cpu's integrated graphic chip enough? (...for a smooth, fluent gameplay I mean; actually I can play BP with my netbook - a rather performing netbook for its class IMO - but, the gameplay is never fluent and it becomes awful in crowded engagements, less than 3fps, almost unplayable!)
I have already ordered an i5-4570 cpu which sports a HD-4600 integrated chip. The optional dedicated graphic card would be a Nvidia GeForce GTX-650, which I'd pay 90€. Is this expense worthy? I'd like to hear your experiences...
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A dedicated card will always outperform an integrated chip, especially if said integrated chip was made by Intel. For fluid play at highest settings, dedicated cards are a must-have.
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I'll second that. I can play FS2 even with MediaVPs on my integrated dual-core i5 laptop, but it's definitely not fast, or fluid. For high FPS gameplay with all the good models and all the nice settings, a dedicated card is absolutely required. I even have a bit of trouble with all the settings up playing the BP WiH intro on my GTX 650Ti.
Ooooh, your CPU is gonna be niiiiiiice. Keep it cool.
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A dedicated GFX Card is always better, if you want to use more than Excel & Word.
But before buying one, read at least 3 or 5 reviews of the one you want - especially the section about the noise during desktop and office applications.
Nowadays most GFX Cards have more than enough power for almost all actual games in Full HD, even with anti aliasing, the real difference is the amount of noise the fan generates.
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I'm in a similar position with regard to buying a new computer and am curious if anyone has given Haswell's integrated graphics a shot with FSO yet. As I understand it, most of the problems FSO has with Intel graphics are driver related, which gives me some hope (though maybe it shouldn't, I dunno). Did anything ever come of that guy who worked for Nvidia or AMD offering to help the SCP out?
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As far as performance goes, Haswell's integrated GPU still performs about as well as modern low-end discrete GPU. Sure it's better than previous Intel graphics, but if you want to play games and that includes FSO, then you're much better off with proper discrete graphics card. There are several performance reviews on Haswell (including graphics), I suggest you take a peek at those and make a decision what you really want from your hardware.
Alternatively if you can wait until second half of 2013, you might find better performance sweet spot with AMD Kaveri APUs. Kaveri will reportedly have Steamroller based CPU and Graphics Core Next based GPU. Should make it better option than current Trinity and Richland as those don't have Graphics Core Next. But if you can't find, then maybe Richland is the right choice for you as it should perform better than Haswell as far as graphics performance is concerned. Of course CPU performance will be far behind.
But none of the above will be real gaming hardware and you shouldn't forget that FSO's hardware requirements will only increase, unless you're content to play without mediavps and mods requiring mediavps.
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Keep in mind that while Haswell's Iris integrated GPU is actually pretty solid (and would probably run FS2 mostly acceptably, but not maxed out--expect shadows and deferred lighting to run very poorly), that family of CPUs requires a unique socket. If you wanted one, you'd need keep that in mind when looking for motherboards. For what it's worth, IIRC the top tier Iris GPU runs slightly inferior to the nVidia GT650, assuming you have drivers that aren't broken.
That said, I'd also recommend a discreet card. Just looking at hardware specs, the intel GPUs are still far behind the higher tier GPUs needed to play games maxed out, and high resolution displays (>1920x1200) will probably become more common in the coming years, which require more power to push.
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thanks for your replies. This morning I ordered all the stuff:
CPU Intel i5-4570 (boxed)
ASUS motherboard H87-plus
ASUS graphic card GTX-650
Zalman case Z11 plus
Thermaltake 630W PSU
8GB kingston RAM
1TB HDD
I'll let you know how it will perform under FSO
ps: since under linux Nvidia cards are the best supported ones I decided to go for the one I felt would have given the best balance to the whole configuration (and to my pockets!)
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I would've paid the extra $50 or so for the 660, personally.
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I had checked the 660's price but it was beyond my budget... :
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Is that a 650 Ti or a normal 650? IIRC the 650 Ti is one of the best cards available for performance/dollar ratio. The normal variant is far behind.
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+650+Ti
That source wasn't the one I read originally, but if you trust the site, it agrees with what I remember.
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It's this one:
http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/GTX650E1GD5/ (http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/GTX650E1GD5/)
It was the cheapest 650 I could find. My earlier choice was GT640 2GB DDR3, but I thought GTX 650 was a better solution since it sports DDR5.
Edit: I thought that 650 was worthy to spend 20€ over the price of 640. 650 Ti version would have costed 40€ over the 640, and it would have been too much...
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20 euros for almost twice the horsepower over the vanilla 650? I dunno, I would have even skipped some meals to get that next GPU :P
To clarify, the GT 650 Ti is different hardware than the GT 650. It has way more power, despite the same number designation. Think of it as halfway between a 650 and a 660.
Another list of some GPUs performance and cost. I have no idea where they pulled these prices from though.
http://community.futuremark.com/hardware/gpu/NVIDIA+GeForce+GTX+650/review
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20 euros for almost twice the horsepower over the vanilla 650? I dunno, I would have even skipped some meals to get that next GPU :P
I'll second that. Is it too late to exchange it? I think it'd be worth even to go through the return process and whatever re-stock fees there are.
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20 euros for almost twice the horsepower over the vanilla 650? I dunno, I would have even skipped some meals to get that next GPU :P
Got 650 Ti. In the end I spent 34€ !!! Kolgena, I hope you're right otherwise you owe me a dinner, a very good one! :P
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A dedicated GFX Card is always better, if you want to use more than Excel & Word.
Unless you want to game on the go / on the train / on the plane, etc.
Then integrated graphics with its compromise of performance and battery life is really the only option.
Everything got a niche ;)
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A dedicated GFX Card is always better, if you want to use more than Excel & Word.
Unless you want to game on the go / on the train / on the plane, etc.
Then integrated graphics with its compromise of performance and battery life is really the only option.
Everything got a niche ;)
That's true, there are some niches for integrated GFX, even in a desktop case - like a small PC in your living room, used for listening to music and watching videos.
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You don't even need a gtx 650 to play this game maxed with 1080p.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131481&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Desktop+Graphics+Cards-_-N82E16814131481&gclid=COD8gcyFiLgCFcme4AodFTcAjg
The 7750 is your best bet. Not only is it really cheap and capable of maxing this game, but it will work fairly well with anything else you decide to play. Just remember that this isn't a gtx 680 or 7970 so don't expect to be playing battlefield 3 on ultra or crap like that.
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You don't even need a gtx 650 to play this game maxed with 1080p.
Have you played new Blue Planet with all the shadows and junk?
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Sooo, the pc is now combat ready! I tested how it performs playing Diaspora (linux installation) with wxlauncher's "Diaspora recommended" settings. I set all the ingame graphic settings to maximum and I played the first 3-4 missions. It runs marvellously well. I didn't check fps count, but the gameplay is absolutely fluid... I'll try to install Blue Planet in next days. (little OT: maybe it's a stupid question but can I simply copy/paste retail FS2 windows installation data into my Diaspora-linux installation folder?)
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Don't. Diaspora is standalone, and the FS2 and Diaspora installs must remain in their respective, separate folders.
You can, however, paste your FS2 data from a windows install into its own folder, copy-paste the Diaspora executables in there and play FS2 from there.
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Yes, this is what I meant actually.
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(little OT: maybe it's a stupid question but can I simply copy/paste retail FS2 windows installation data into my Diaspora-linux installation folder?)
NO. Diaspora is a Total Conversion (TC) / Stand-Alone game in its own right. Don't mix FS2 files in there. Instead, put the retail FS2 files in their own folder, put the FSOpen Linux executable with them, and extract the Media VP enhancements, and/or FreeSpace Port (FSPort) and other FS2 mod files to their appropriate directories in the FS2 folder. Check the installation instructions for the specific mods to see which folders they go in.
EDIT:
:headdesk:
OK, totally didn't see that there was a second page when I quick-replied to that. Sorry, MatthTheGeek
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Bear in mind that you don't need the Diaspora executables to play with the Diaspora default settings. They're just a set of launcher settings after all.
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A dedicated card will always outperform an integrated chip, especially if said integrated chip was made by Intel. For fluid play at highest settings, dedicated cards are a must-have.
Do not, repeat, do not understimate Intel IGPs, right now the Intel Iris Pro 5200 is the best integrate video for notebooks, so much it can outperform desktop based A10-5800 and 6800K.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested
Intel really improved their IGP starting from Sandy Bridge, the Intel HD3000 overcloked can outperform a GT520/610 overcloked
This is a test a did myselft
(http://i.imgur.com/6ywoHhe.png)
The HD4600 is a way improved version of the Ivy Bridge HD4000, ive seem playing Battlefield 3 720P on medium at +30fps
Off course if you live in EEUU you can buy a better video card for next to nothing, but its not the same if a HD7770 equals a month of minimum salary pay on your country.
On FS2 i did have loots of problems with the HD3000, right now it just crash with malloc errors, its probably because i do not assign it more than 32mb of fixed memory, because no program ever uses it, the driver just send everything to DVT memory, and fixed memory stays at 16mb of use, so if i assign, say 512 or 1gb is just wasted ram.