Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Piemanlives on July 02, 2013, 02:18:28 pm
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I have an interesting question for all of you, I was wondering where the Freespace star systems fall into place in relation to star systems in mass effect. Unless this has been asked before, if so please direct me to the appropriate thread.
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Define "where".
Because (most of, at least) the FS systems do exist (and I think most of the ME systems have actual in-universe names instead of the astronomical code names we use for them, although the sectors are probably correct), but their position on the nodemap (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Nodemap) (intentionally!) doesn't match their RL position. Since travelling between systems in FS depends on subspace nodes and not at all on the physical distance between them, the map reflects those node connections, instead of the actual positions of the system in the galaxy. Which is why, incidentally, it is called "nodemap".
A good start would be looking for the system names on wikipedia. Many if not all of them should be findeable. I'm sure other people (or Google) could also point you to good sources of the Milky Way's "geographical" data.
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Sol does definitely exist. ;)
But what if it didn't exist.... :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking:
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their position on the nodemap (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Nodemap) (intentionally!) doesn't match their RL position. Since travelling between systems in FS depends on subspace nodes and not at all on the physical distance between them
I managed to gather that much already, It is rather obvious once you think about it, seeing as distance between systems is never mentioned (At least to my knowledge) So assuming that distance between systems relatively doesn't matter, you can assume that the positions on the node map are not the actual locations.
Sol does definitely exist. ;)
But what if it didn't exist.... :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking:
Canon would have to be rewritten! :eek: :eek: :eek:
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As far as I know, FS systems in GTVA space are all within a few dozen light-years of each other, which is an extremely small area in the Milky Way (which does imply a (loose) correlation between the distance between stars and the probability that a stable subspace node will form between them... but I digress). As matth stated, these are real systems, with the exception of Vasuda - which is probably a real system using the Vasudan name.
Mass Effect, on the other hand, has systems located (and mostly uniformly distributed) across the entire galaxy. I'm not sure if any of these (with the obvious exception of Sol) are real systems - many of them are so distant they would likely be entirely invisible to us (especially the ones directly on the other side of the galactic core). I'm not sure if any canon mass relays extend into other galaxies. The only extragalactic activity I'm aware of is the Reapers' hiding spot in dark space.
The (FS) empire of the Ancients, however, spanned at least a couple galaxies, making it even larger than the known Relay network (It's very interesting to consider the implications of this on the Ancients' society, especially given that they explored other star systems before they discovered subspace. There was an excellent discussion of this in #bp and I've been unable to find a log of it).
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Have you heard of Celestia? (http://www.shatters.net/celestia) it's basically a (free) program with a 3D map of a vast amount of stars in the known galaxy. The stars featured in the Freespace universe are all pretty much common, so you'll find most, if not all of them there. I don't know about the star systems featured in Mass Effect as I've never heard of them (and I don't know if they use the same naming conventions used in Freespace), but Celestia uses the names of stars from a variety of naming conventions that exist. If you want to find a 3D representation of the stars in Freespace compared to those in Mass Effect, this might be a good place to try.
Because, as stated before me, the stars in Freespace are all relatively nearby Sol (within a hundred or so lightyears), I think the only notable relationships to be found will be between these and the few stars in the sectors adjacent to Sol in Mass Effect.
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The (FS) empire of the Ancients, however, spanned at least a couple galaxies, making it even larger than the known Relay network (It's very interesting to consider the implications of this on the Ancients' society, especially given that they explored other star systems before they discovered subspace. There was an excellent discussion of this in #bp and I've been unable to find a log of it).
That is, if you're into literal interpretation of an intentionally vague and extrapolating text.
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Define "where".
Because (most of, at least) the FS systems do exist (and I think most of the ME systems have actual in-universe names instead of the astronomical code names we use for them, although the sectors are probably correct), but their position on the nodemap (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Nodemap) (intentionally!) doesn't match their RL position. Since travelling between systems in FS depends on subspace nodes and not at all on the physical distance between them, the map reflects those node connections, instead of the actual positions of the system in the galaxy. Which is why, incidentally, it is called "nodemap".
A good start would be looking for the system names on wikipedia. Many if not all of them should be findeable. I'm sure other people (or Google) could also point you to good sources of the Milky Way's "geographical" data.
I made a correct map of the FS systems according to their true locations in autocad once. The computer is still in maintenance so I can't share it with you now, but if you wait a week or so I'll post it in some readable way. Some connections are funny. For instance, the closest system to Capella is Betelgeuse within 10 LY. (I had even envisioned a new storyline which started precisely with this fact in mind)
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The (FS) empire of the Ancients, however, spanned at least a couple galaxies, making it even larger than the known Relay network (It's very interesting to consider the implications of this on the Ancients' society, especially given that they explored other star systems before they discovered subspace. There was an excellent discussion of this in #bp and I've been unable to find a log of it).
If you're talking about the BP version of the Ancients, note that they're the result of a deliberately unorthodox interpretation of canon in an attempt to produce more interesting aliens than ASW's grumpy imperialists. It's probably not what :v: intended, and it's definitely not a mandatory part of the FS universe.
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I made a correct map of the FS systems according to their true locations in autocad once. The computer is still in maintenance so I can't share it with you now, but if you wait a week or so I'll post it in some readable way. Some connections are funny. For instance, the closest system to Capella is Betelgeuse within 10 LY. (I had even envisioned a new storyline which started precisely with this fact in mind)
Oh cool, I'd like to see this.
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it's been a long time since i watched the ancient cutscenes in FS1, but i don't remember them stating or implying that the ancient empire spanned multiple galaxies. much of one galaxy and far larger than the GTVA, sure. in any event, i found the description of the ancient empire to not gel well with the gameplay/GTVA FS-verse.
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Ancients Cut-scene 1:
Ours was a proud people, and always the strongest. For thousands of years our empire expanded. For so long we could imagine ourselves alone in the universe. For so long never did we encounter advanced life. And we traveled faster and further, spreading in our galaxy and before long we could see the day when our reachable systems would have been exploited. And then there would be nowhere else to go.
And we discovered subspace. It gave us our galaxy and it gave us the universe. And we saw other advanced life. And we subdued it or we crushed it. In months the extermination of billions of years of evolution on a similar but slower path. With subspace, our empire would surely know no boundaries.
Ancients Cut-Scene 4:
There are a few of us left. We know we will soon be gone. And so we can see our fate as others will see it. There will be little legacy. No great expressions of what we once were. Our technology, our achievements if ever they are seen again will spawn none of the awe that filled our conquests.
We know our fate. We are being eliminated. When we traveled subspace, the cosmic destroyers took note.
When we conquered and colonized in galaxies where we had no place the destruction and the anguish and the loss were the clarion call of our doom. And so the destroyers came for us.
So it appears that at first, the Ancients may have used high-sub-light travel to reach their nearby systems, possibly combined with hibernation for the crew. That said, we don't know how long they live as a species, so for them a 50 yr. transit time could be a drop in the bucket, so hibernation may have been unnecessary. Another possibility could be that the Ancients' home system was amidst a tighter star cluster like the Pleiades, reducing the transit time between star systems. The "thousands of years" time-frame for the expansion of their empire BEFORE they discovered subspace, could support the long-duration spaceflight theory.
As for the statements regarding the scope of the Ancients' empire, the quote clearly states "galaxies", plural. However, that could simply refer to the satellite galaxies of our own Milky Way, such as the LMC and SMC. In any case, the distances involved in reaching these destinations, would likely support the conclusion that the Ancients developed a more advanced form of subspace travel to get there.
In the final analysis however, one could argue that whoever wrote the dialogue for these cut-scenes did not have direct access to "canon" info. regarding the established (or inferred) rules of travel and navigation in the game story itself. If they had, they may have limited the context somewhat.
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I know the Ancient-Shivan War team went with a literal interpretation of "galaxies" (which allowed for a really awesome skybox), but if it suited your own mod better, you could certainly view that as something of a poetic license.
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Actually in ASW - the galaxy shown is the milky way viewed from one of the milky way's satellite galaxies, idk how accurate it is but rule of cool. heh.
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. It'd make more sense for the Ancients to somehow find a way to one of those as opposed to something like Andromeda or further.
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I kind of toyed with that idea myself, aeons ago. The Magellenic Clouds are a lot more feasible. But then it was going a "wherever you go, there are shivans" kind of thing, so the cosmos is a dark and scary place.
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The Shivans were calculated.
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As far as I know, FS systems in GTVA space are all within a few dozen light-years of each other,
Nope: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Epsilon_Pegasi
522 lightyears away.
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Stars_and_Planets
There's your guide where everything is, roughly. Some systems do not really exist, but most do. Enjoy.
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It occurs to me that FS systems are all going to be reasonably close to Earth, though, because they're picked for their recognisable names and only easily-visible stars have those.
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As far as I know, FS systems in GTVA space are all within a few dozen light-years of each other,
Nope: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Epsilon_Pegasi
522 lightyears away.
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Stars_and_Planets
There's your guide where everything is, roughly. Some systems do not really exist, but most do. Enjoy.
His point still stands that the systems in FS are all relatively close to sol, within a few thousand lightyears (Deneb is about 2600 according to wikipedia), which is a a pretty small distance considering the Milky Way is over a hundred thousand lightyears accross, and the Mass Effect universe has stars spread throughout it. The criss-cross between the stars in that universe and Freespace is probably negligible, but I would be interested in any interesting relations that do come up.
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Exactly. With some exceptions (those already named and one or two more, the big majority of stars is pretty much around Sol, give or take between 4 and 70 LY. Can't confirm yet, still haven't received my laptop.
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I never expected this turn into an interesting discussion like it has, interesting.