Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: rhettro on July 20, 2013, 11:48:35 pm
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Four years ago Vertigo 7 started making an Assault Gunboat and then he vanished.
Two years ago TomShak, decided that he would take a shot at the Assault Gunboat and then he went away.
So now I figure that I might as well take a stab at it as well. Hopefully I won't disappear as well.
I've started to block out TomShaks final design as a starting point as seen below.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Assault-Model_zpsb3222792.png)
I know Tom took several clues from the Lambda Shuttle to make it look more like a product of Cygnus Spaceworks. I would like to push it even further into Lambda territory. One of the criticisms of the design from the Tie Fighter series was the missile pods on the sides was just tacked on and not integrated into the design as a whole. Looking at the Lamda, the main body has a rolled plate that travels completely across the mid section. I think a similar approach could help the overall look of the Gunboat. I've attached several brief sketches below illustrating this. Thoughts?
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Assault-Op1_zps936e8d5b.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Assault-Op2_zpsadeb508c.jpg)
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Nice! I like the top design on the second page the best--it looks deadly but hefty (side-by-side two seater?), feels quite unlike the rebel fighter designs, and seems like it wouldn't compete directly with TIEs at all. Following the suggestion made by Brand in the old thread, I think it would be cool to see the cockpit canopy wrapped around like on the Lambda rather than having the little side windows, but that's a pretty minor detail to be worried about at this stage. Really cool stuff!
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My favourites are the top design on the first page and the top design on the second one. The others look more like the Missile Boat to me.
I'm looking forward to see how your variant with the integrated launchers will look like.
Also, have you considered to let your Starwing have foldable wings like in the hangar scene of TIE Fighter?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:GUNhanger.jpg
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This was my take:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/51ahg.jpg)
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Awesome! I also agree that the first page and the top design on the second page look the best to me. And I'll second the motion for more wrap-around viewscreen instead of the side port windows.
Honestly, I love that you're taking this in your own direction and I say run with it.
Also, Starslayer's drawing has a great feel to it. I'd like to see some of that in the final model.
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I like the very first concept sketch. It felt very much like the lambda shuttle, but had the necessary differences. One suggestion: could the cockpit be coming out from under an armoured body? Maybe it might give it an an armoured, more combat worthy form.
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Okay, update time. I'm sorry it's taken so long to get back to this thread, especially when everyone has given me great incite. I appreciate it. I have a good reason for the delay though. A day after I made this thread I got an email about a new job opportunity and subsequently had a phone interview, then a face to face interview, then a follow up interview where an offer was made, which I accepted. :) Then I had to let my current office of 9 years know I was leaving. An emotional roller-coaster of a week. Anyway, back to the Assault Gunboat.
Based on your input I have agreed to do the following.
Configuration: Side by side 2-seater with wrap around canopy ala Lambda. It is going to have folding wings.I like the detailing of the front part of StarSlayer's sketch. I also agree with bobbtmann that it needs a "tougher" overall appearance, which means to me that it will have a more bulky appearance overall compared to the Lambda.
Of my sketches I submitted I'm partial to the first one on the top of the page. I thought that the crew compartment was a little small compared to the rest of the ship, which lead me to the top design on the second page. I like that one too, but I think it lacks bulk and doesn't look like it could take a direct hit. For the next phase, I'll do some more 3d models, just basic ones to get the massing right. Thanks again for everyone's comments.
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I think the reason why the revamped one doesn't look like it could take a hit is because the neck between cockpit and the fuselage is very long. I suspect that if you shortened it, that would solve the bulkiness issue.
I can't wait to see what you come up with.
p.s. I like your angled missile pods. They make the ship feel more alive.
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Congrats on the new job, and a huge thumbs up on your selected configuration. Sounds perfect, looking forward to what you're going to make with it.
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Thanks Count, my first day can't get here fast enough.
I used Sketchup to do a quick mock up of my current ideas. Remember this is a sketch only, once I settle on a solid direction I'll start building it in Silo with a much higher attention to detail. But Sketchup is a fast way to play with ideas.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Assault_zps2946a366.jpg)
I like this version, but it may be a little too "Lambda". I'll be changing the cockpit to a little more rounded appearance and make the fins a little more integrated.
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Your new model does have a lot more strength to it. If feels more solid, though still agile.
One note though, would it be possible to adjust the angle of the two side fins? You could make them flow from one side of the hull to the other, which might make a nice echo of the wings. Here's what I mean:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc433/bobbtmann/Fate%20of%20the%20Galaxy/Star%20Wars%20WIPs/AssaultConcept_zps1da24615.png)
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This was my take:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/51ahg.jpg)
Top! With that details of the guns and missiles - make it!
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Your new model does have a lot more strength to it. If feels more solid, though still agile.
One note though, would it be possible to adjust the angle of the two side fins? You could make them flow from one side of the hull to the other, which might make a nice echo of the wings. Here's what I mean:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc433/bobbtmann/Fate%20of%20the%20Galaxy/Star%20Wars%20WIPs/AssaultConcept_zps1da24615.png)
Agreed. Middle fins should be more 45 degrees I think. That might work better by mounting them on the missile pods instead of main fuselage.
Also, I'm not sure if I'm entirely sold on the neck connecting the body with the cockpit. I agree that it might just be TOO "Lambda". Could you make a mockup with a more solid one-piece design so we can compare and see what we like better? Maybe just try and model the front section of StarSlayer's design?
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bobbtmann, Nice sketch. I did consider moving the side fins as you have shown and I'll do a mockup showing that configuration. I feel that they should be variable, as shown in StarSlayer's sketch. To me showing the fins as an extension, rather than a separate piece. off the missile pod has a more anime feel to me than classic Star Wars. I like your more rounded cockpit design, which still invokes the Lamda without directly copying it.
Count: The main design feature I want to bring to the AG is the wrap around plating at the main body. I extended the neck under that just as in the Lambda. I'm wondering if cutting the plate back and allowing the neck to extend above the plate might be a more unique look. As bobbtmann suggested earlier, the neck could probably use some type of armored plating. I'd appreciate any sketches or other examples people have. I'll fire up Silo this weekend and start making the initial model and we can go from there.
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Have you checked to see how it looks if the middle fins emerge from the centers of their respective missile/engine pods? With the tilt of the pods, it kinda seems like you have a triple-fuselage idea going, so it might be neat to have the smaller tilted fins mirror the way the central fin is mounted.
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Have you checked to see how it looks if the middle fins emerge from the centers of their respective missile/engine pods?
I haven't, but I think that would place the fins too far apart to look right. If the main wings fold up, then visually having the fins more to the outside would look like they might conflict when the main wings were raised. On the other hand if the fins and the wings are variable then there isn't an issue. I'll have to play with it some more. I'll have another round of models for everyone to look at and give opinions.
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/star-9-25_zpsf84b497e.jpg)
A small update. I've made adjustments per some of the comments and moved the model over to Blender. While I like Silo a lot, modeling seems to go a little smoother in Blender so in the interest of time I think I'm going to stay there. Right now I'm considering the engine design and the second level of articulation.
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Cool! Glad you're still working on this. Any chance we could get a view of it in a couple other angles so we can get a sense for the perspective?
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No problem. This model is still in the early stages, plenty of tweaks and clean up to do yet.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/star-9-25-B_zpsbc007aea.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/star-9-25-S_zpsd0a5dc9a.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/star-9-25-t_zpsaadaed35.jpg)
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What renderer are you using? Those look really nice. The model is looking good, too. If you shortened the neck, it might look a bit more solid.
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Thanks bobbtmann,
In Blender I'm using the Cycles renderer exclusively these days. I like your idea of shortening the neck, I was thinking of making it a little thicker as well.
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...If you shortened the neck, it might look a bit more solid.
I agree - was also going to ask if the neck could be a bit shorter. Also, MAYBE flatten out the angle of the nose. The front just looks a bit too low for the rest of the ship's body.
I really like the direction you're taking this, overall. Keep it up!
Edit: I just went back and looked at Starslayer's sketch again. I like the lines that the straight cockpit makes much better. Doesn't have to look just like his, but I don't think the nose should droop like that.
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I like the sloping cockpit. I find it makes it look more aggressive and tough.
The gunboat in Starslayer's drawing looks like it's trying too hard to go forward. Imagine a horse reaching for grass that's too far away. It also looks very flimsy, like all the parts were spot welded together.
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I decided to model Starslayer's cockpit using NURBS to get a better idea of how it would actually look in 3D. Do you like it better than my current one?
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/starslayer-1_zpsdd1dda0c.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/starslayer-2_zpsbde6f815.jpg)
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Hmm. You know what, I didn't think I would, but I REALLY like that model. It means that the crew would be REALLY reclined, but I don't think that's a problem (or that unrealistic, considering modern fighter jet seats). As long as we're still making this thing scale so that's a twin-seat side-by-side cockpit, I think it works.
I guess I think it looks less kit-bashed than your previous cockpit - like it's part of a larger continuous frame instead of tacked on the front. It also has its own look - not a replica of the lambda, while still having strong visual ties with the larger shuttle.
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I also like this cockpit very much. And yes, there's indeed some resemblance to the Lambda's cockpit (and a little bit to the original Assault Gunboat) while it is a more original design. :)
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Any chance you could increase the overall wing size as well? I hate to do this, but I keep going back at Starslayer's design and the wing to body proportions there seem to work better. That said, what I really DO like about your model is the fuselage portion. I think if you bring the wings up to the front of the fuselage and make the new cockpit top and bottom flush with where it connects, you'll have a very solid looking gunboat.
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Any chance you could increase the overall wing size as well? I hate to do this, but I keep going back at Starslayer's design and the wing to body proportions there seem to work better. That said, what I really DO like about your model is the fuselage portion. I think if you bring the wings up to the front of the fuselage and make the new cockpit top and bottom flush with where it connects, you'll have a very solid looking gunboat.
Seconding the nitpick on the stubby-ish wings.
Cockpit and fuselage are :yes:
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...but I keep going back at Starslayer's design...
I feel like this needs to stop. I don't know why that drawing was even brought up, but this isn't Starslayer's model. This is rhettro's model, and his artistic abilities are sound. Critiques are about finding ways to make a person's model better, not making it more like someone else's.
His wings look fine.
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It's okay bobbtmann, I was asking for community input. I am genuinely interested in everyone's opinion. However, to bobbtmann's point, this is going to be my take on the Gunboat. I like StarSlayer's design a lot, but I'm not going to copy it. I'll leave that up to him. Keep in mind that with a project like this, it is impossible to please everyone and that isn't my aim anyways. So why ask for input? Two reasons really, the first is that you guys have a lot of good ideas I haven't thought of and I think the design will be better if I at least consider them. And secondly I think it is fun to involve the community in my design process. It's fun for me to participate in everyone else's design work too. The models I've shown up to this point were to generate discussion and to help me visualize what the final design will be. The cockpit is still a work in progress, but I have decided to slope it, maybe not as aggressively as my first approach but it will be noticeable. I'm keeping the cross section of the body the same, but I am going to shorten the neck. As for wing size/configuration, I don't know yet. Let me work out the engine configuration first and I'll take another look at it.
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To StarSlayer's credit, he never intended to make the model himself, but for other modelers to take inspiration from it. He would be nothing but flattered for any part of his design to show influence in your model, but of course that's not required at all. Just so you're in the right mindset when considering input from his design. I don't see any problem comparing what you have so far and his design, personally. I can say, I've always been a huge fan of his work, and seeing some of that in your model would make me a bit giddy :)
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Apologies, I meant no offense. I obviously don't have any official role here whatsoever and so just try to offer my ideas and advice of what I personally think look good - and in the past at least that usually aligns well with the project leads. But that's all it is, and I don't expect any of my ideas to be followed. I understood Starslayer's design to simply be concept art, just like any other project usually starts with, and I did mention the things in Rhettro's design that I like better - just hoping to see this become the best it can be and trying to do what little I can to help that in my own little way.
Rhettro, keep up the good work.
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No apologies necessary Count, I want your opinions. :yes:
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As a long time fan of Tie Fighter, i was initial skeptical with how your design would look. But i have to say, you've done quite a good job, :yes: your slanted missile pods (are they still missile pods?) kinda remind me of the way the pods are on the Missile Boat.
I agree with CountBuggula in that the wings look a little small for the size of the hull. Personally i think its the vertical stabilizers that are a little disproportional.
Other than that keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing where this goes.
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not a fan of the design. i think you should have stayed closer to what's been established in cannon, there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. look what this modeler did with the assault gunboat:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/articles/images/anselstarwars/07.jpg
http://starforge.info/data/uploads/imperial-ships/assault-gunboat-xg-3.jpg
http://fractalsponge.net/gallery/Starfighters/XG1%20StarWing%20Assault%20Gunboat/slides/g1.jpg
now THAT's a sexy beast imo.
to me, this new design looks more like an armed shuttle, and not a starfighter. that's just my humble opinion, no offense intended.
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I think looking like a stripped down shuttle platform loaded with ordinance is exactly what makes this version compelling. If something like this ends up getting finished and submitted, we might consider positioning it as something like a modern helicopter gunship.
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I think looking like a stripped down shuttle platform loaded with ordinance is exactly what makes this version compelling. If something like this ends up getting finished and submitted, we might consider positioning it as something like a modern helicopter gunship.
That's exactly the kind of role I could imagine this vehicle in. That or something along the lines of the F-111. Either way, due to the gunboat not appearing in any movies, it's a perfect candidate for a re-imaging. Of course, part of that is because I personally have never been a fan of the gunboat as seen in the X-Wing games or elsewhere. Also, this has already been debated ad naseum and the project leads have weighed in on their basic preferences.
Granted, that's only if it's intended to be included in an official FotG release. If you want to make your own gunboat that looks like what's been previously established and make mod levels with it, nobody's going to stop you.
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The Assault Gunboat from Scifi Mesh looks amazing! But I wouldn't say that it takes the design established at canon either. Anything rhettro has done so far is better than the image on Wookiepedia.
If someone else decides to make the model on Scifi Mesh and convert it, that'd be hot.
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Quote from: swashmebuckle on October 15, 2013, 02:19:54 pm
I think looking like a stripped down shuttle platform loaded with ordinance is exactly what makes this version compelling. If something like this ends up getting finished and submitted, we might consider positioning it as something like a modern helicopter gunship.
That's exactly the kind of role I could imagine this vehicle in. That or something along the lines of the F-111.
I think a helicopter gunship cross F-111 is a pretty good analogy of what the gunboat's role was.
Did you guys ever come to a conclusion as to what direction this is gonna take role-wise?
Also out of curiosity what was it that lead to the idea to give it Lambda design styles?
EDIT: Apologies for the bad quoting, I'm still learning Forum posting skills
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look what this modeler did with the assault gunboat:
WarHawk, Fractalsponge is an amazing modeler and in fact, I studied his version of the Star Wing extensively before I started mine. I would submit that it is his expert level of detailing that makes his model look good rather than the overall ship design.
Also out of curiosity what was it that gave the lead the idea to give it Lambda design styles?
A common complaint of the original Star Wing design from the video game was that it didn’t look Imperial enough. Given that both the Lambda Shuttle and Star Wing are both tri-wings designed by Cygnus Spaceworks, it makes sense that they share some common design motifs. I also wanted it to have a more armored look. If the X Wing is like an F16, then the Star Wing should be an A10.
Thanks for all the new input on my model, it keeps me motivated. Even the ones who don’t like my design, I want to know what it is about it that you don’t like. I’m still struggling with a final concept. If I were to critique my own work I would say it is too bulky, I don’t like the square shape of the body when looking down at it from the top view. There needs to be better integration from the canopy to neck and from the neck to body. I haven’t thought of an engine design I’m completely happy with yet. So I’m going to continue to play with a few design ideas.
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...expert level of detailing that makes his model look good rather than the overall ship design...
I thought I was alone in thinking that. It's a relief to know there are others who are noticing the same thing. There is at least one of Fractalsponge's designs that has a great shape, but I think he relies heavily on detail to hide weaknesses in the form.
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It's also one of the reasons why it's totally unsuitable for being used as a game resource, even if he gave it to us. A good model for designed for use in game is built from the ground up in a completely different way than a super detailed render model such as his. Most of those details that are actually modeled in 3d would need to have been created instead as a height or normal map, plus additional texture work.
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A common complaint of the original Star Wing design from the video game was that it didn’t look Imperial enough. Given that both the Lambda Shuttle and Star Wing are both tri-wings designed by Cygnus Spaceworks, it makes sense that they share some common design motifs. I also wanted it to have a more armored look. If the X Wing is like an F16, then the Star Wing should be an A10.
That makes sense now. I'd been seeing the lambda style stuff thrown around and was confused. Interesting enough it was Sienar who made the shuttle. Cygnus had a sub-license to make them and decided to stick guns on it.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lambda-class_T-4a_shuttle Im sure you guys had seen it but just in case anyone wanted evidence.
I like the A10. Maybe thats why I've always liked the Star Wing.
Looking forward to seeing more progress :yes:
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I like Ansel's/Fractalsponge's take. And I disagree. I think it's the shape. The detailing just enhances it. I have renders from his WIP and it looks good naked. Some of the designs shown here, while good, look like they'd be a better match for the Missile Boat than the Gunboat, but that's just my opinion. Considering that several of Ansel's ships made it into The Essential Guide to Warfare and are now canon, I think it's a safe bet that his take is a pretty good one to follow. I understand not wanting to straight copy someone, but that's like saying you want to do a new version of the TIE Fighter and have it look only vaguely like a TIE Fighter. And I'm all for re-imaging... when the original design looks like hammered dog crap. The original E-wing fits that bill, and Starslayer and Brand did fantastic jobs re-imaging it. Now the Missile Boat... that looks like hammered dog crap and needs to be re-imaged. On the Gunboat, if I wasn't going to go with Ansel's, then I'd go with Starslayer's.
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It missed Halloween, but the curse of the gunboat thread is alive and well!
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Yes.
Yes, it is.
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I like Ansel's/Fractalsponge's take. And I disagree.
I can't say that my current design is better than Fractalsponge's, he has a lot more experience at this than I do. As for you example, there is no way I would try to reimagine the Tie Fighter, it is way to iconic for me to mess with. With the Gunboat though, if you look at the original design from the video game, I don't see anything from a design perspective that ties it back to any other Star Wars ship. My feeling is that the original designer simply cobbled together something that fit the functional role without much regard toward making it look like it belonged in the Star Wars universe. Fractalsponge did a masterful job of updating the original design, too bad the original design looks like crap (in my opinion. :) )
So to update everyone, I haven't done anymore work on my design. In truth, the longer I live with it the more I don't like it. I'm going to go back and play with the proportions a little bit and rework the cockpit to be more like Starslayer's design. I still think it important for the model to look like it was built by the same company that built the Lambda, without looking like a repurposed Lambda Shuttle.
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It missed Halloween, but the curse of the gunboat thread is alive and well!
It's a minefield, but I knew that coming in.
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I like Ansel's/Fractalsponge's take. And I disagree.
I can't say that my current design is better than Fractalsponge's, he has a lot more experience at this than I do. As for you example, there is no way I would try to reimagine the Tie Fighter, it is way to iconic for me to mess with. With the Gunboat though, if you look at the original design from the video game, I don't see anything from a design perspective that ties it back to any other Star Wars ship. My feeling is that the original designer simply cobbled together something that fit the functional role without much regard toward making it look like it belonged in the Star Wars universe. Fractalsponge did a masterful job of updating the original design, too bad the original design looks like crap (in my opinion. :) )
So to update everyone, I haven't done anymore work on my design. In truth, the longer I live with it the more I don't like it. I'm going to go back and play with the proportions a little bit and rework the cockpit to be more like Starslayer's design. I still think it important for the model to look like it was built by the same company that built the Lambda, without looking like a repurposed Lambda Shuttle.
Rhetto, I totally support what you're doing and the direction you've chosen. I hope you're able to find some proportions you like by going back to Starslayer's concept - I think that's a great place to start from. Keep it up and don't let yourself get too discouraged. This IS quite the minefield.
Also, the Tie Fighter is a horrible example since it's a film ship. Anything that appeared in episodes 4-6 is being reproduced as faithfully as possible here. That said, the mod leads (Brand and Chief) have stated very explicitly that the only cannon that matters is the films, and anything else if fair game for a complete re-imaging. Unfortunately the Assault Gunboat is a really mixed bag in that there are plenty of people that love the design as seen in the X-Wing games, but also a large group (including myself, Rhetto, and many team members) that didn't care for it at all. That absolutely means a dangerous minefield when we're talking about a property so passionate as Star Wars.
It's just important to keep that all in mind when we're discussing and critiquing here. It doesn't matter how much EU clout a ship has in any particular configuration - if it wasn't in the movies, the artist can do whatever he wants with it. And hopefully impress us all with something amazing and new, that fits the movie look and design far better.
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Have you considered using the gunboat in the launch animation from tie fighter as a good basis for the cockpit. It could easily be converted into a side by side two seater if that was one of your intentions. It can easily be turned into a slanted cockpit and lastly it removes the problem of the fragile neck issue giving it a more sturdy look, something the gunboat probably should have.
In case you haven't seen it yet.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070805183022/starwars/images/d/d3/GUNhanger.jpg
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Have you considered using the gunboat in the launch animation from tie fighter as a good basis for the cockpit. It could easily be converted into a side by side two seater if that was one of your intentions. It can easily be turned into a slanted cockpit and lastly it removes the problem of the fragile neck issue giving it a more sturdy look, something the gunboat probably should have.
In case you haven't seen it yet.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070805183022/starwars/images/d/d3/GUNhanger.jpg
That was the first starting point from the LAST attempt at creating this cursed vehicle. I'd say it's a good idea to steer away from that particular image as concept art.
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I never realised one vehicle could be so incredibly difficult for a community to come to a general consensus on what they want it to look like.
Come to think about it even Lucas-arts had several incarnations in one game. The launch animation, the opening cut-scene and the hi-res graphic model all were different to each other.
None the less, I'm sure rhettro will create an excellent design once he works out a design he's satisfied with. As long as it has five wings, two ion cannons (preferably on the vertical stabilizer) and at least two lasers i think ill be happy.
As much as it is a contentious issue, i think starslayers artwork is a good base design if the one I suggested earlier is a bad idea.
Hope to see some new stuff soon, keep up the good work.
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Honestly I think StarSlayer's concept art is the best overall design I've seen yet for the Gunboat. That doesn't mean Rhettro has to exactly duplicate it, but I'd say it's as good a starting point as any.
Edit:
Just so you know how complicated of a history this ship has...here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=56008.0) is the first Assault Gunboat attempt way back in '08 by Vertigo. The thread quickly devolved into an...argument...about what the role of the Assault Gunboat should be, and how it fits in the Imperial Fleet. Also, some discussion about the actual craft design.
Then in '11 TomShak decided to take a jab at it here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76448.0). While the model wasn't finished to completion, at least the discussion in that thread, combined with various WIP changes and models thrown around, gave us some really good ideas about the direction we want to go with the model. And by "we" I mean there was at least concensus among the mod leaders and most other team members (and to be clear, I am not one of them).
An offshoot of that thread is here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76595.0) where we condinued debating the role and purpose of the Gunboat in the Impirial Navy.
So...yeah - this ship has a long and "colorful" history in the Fate of the Galaxy mod. Rhetto is really brave to step up and make an attempt at it, and I give him props for that. I just hope that before anyone criticizes his design decisions that they've read through the previous discussions so we're not re-hashing the same arguments over and over.
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No, the TIE is the perfect example because it sets the boundary on what you feel you're allowed to change. These things are all canon, yet TPTB here have decided that some things will be sacrosanct and others are up for grabs. I don't really have a problem with this, but recognize that it is exactly what happened. I mean, in my version of SW, only ANH is canon and everything else was just conjecture. The other movies were just sequels and prequels and we all know that the sequels and prequels are never as good as the real thing. So in my version, the B-wing is called the T-wing and the A-wing looks like McQuarrie's concept art and not the horrible thing that ILM did to it. See what I did there? Really, though, I prefer to take the approach that it's all canon. If something looks like it needs a re-do (like the A-wing, that one I was actually serious about) then fine, go for it. Offer it as a variant. Look at it like the FW 190 A vs FW 190 D: Clearly the same fighter, but also clearly different versions. Or look at it like the A2 leather jacket (also WW2 era). These things were built on contract from a set of specs. Every factory followed the specs, and jackets from each factory looked different, even on points that were specifically called out in the specs.
Now, on the AG... I can't get behind the argument that the AG "looks too Rebel." If you don't want it with color and rust that's fine, but there's nothing wrong with the shape.* It looks like a combat derivative of the Lambda, which fits the backstory fine.. I would probably opt for Starslayer's cockpit over Fractal's, but otherwise they're both good to go. As was pointed out in some of those other threads (and seemingly not really acknowledged), the X-wing was an Imperial design. It was just stolen and given/sold to the Rebels.
*The fuselage is always going to look like three sticks glued together, unless you put a hood on it like the DeSanto Viper's.
I'm not attacking Rhettro. I applaud him for tackling a difficult design. When you share your work you know there will be some people who like it and some who don't (the response I received to my XJ X-wing was disappointing, but I don't let it get to me because I'm the only one who will have models of it and it's how I want it to look). I expect a similar response here. I'm okay with it if it's the way he wants it and TPTB here sign off on it. I won't use it, but I still respect his integrity. There are some designs that are just blah. I hated the E-wing, in all of its close-but-not-quite-the-same "official" iterations. Then came Starslayer and BrandX and, aside from the side intakes, the E-wing is now awesome. For me, the AG is similar. I've never liked the design until I saw what Fractalsponge did with it. Then I saw Starslayer's. The AG is now awesome. There's wanting to make something your own, and there's recognizing that "as good as it's likely going to get" has probably already been done. (It's like the Camaro. It was perfect in the late '60s/early '70s, and it's been all downhill ever since.)
Fractal's work is interesting in that he may be just a fan, but several (8, IIRC) of his designs are now official (from his work in The Essential Guide to Warfare). Those were all cap-ships. I would not be surprised if he worked on another book and his TIE/Variants and other Imperial attack craft became official. At that point I assume the argument will be back to "yes, but it's not in the first three movies, so we still get to change it." The point being, you can always justify doing whatever you want.
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Thanks for your input Hawk. In regards to what is considered a “canon” AG design, I am sure there are plenty of good arguments to be made on opposing sides. But from my point of view, since the very idea of what should be considered “canon” for the AG can’t be agreed upon, I’m not going to feel bound by one person’s take over another. The main “canon” aspects that concern me are the role it fit in X-Wing, its general size and crew size. Beyond that, I’m going to try and focus on what I think are the board’s expectations for the AG (as nebulous as they may be) and move forward. As stated previously, there is no way I can please everyone, so I’m not going to try. And that isn’t a slam on this board, that is true of any creative process one may want to pursue. That said, that doesn’t mean I won’t listen to dissenting opinions. I do want to hear them, whether I incorporate those ideas or not it will help me bring form to my own vision of what the AG should be. Per my last update, I’ve been waiting for inspiration to strike me so I can settle on a design I think I’ll be happy with over the long term. So far, nothing has really struck me yet, so I figured while I was waiting, I would try and do a little more modeling on Star Slayer’s design to see how it looks in 3D. It is still very schematic but it should help people understand what it might look like in game.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Star-Slay2_zps834361b5.png)
Beyond that I’ve been messing around in SketchUp trying to refine what my design should be. Below is my attempt for a less bulky looking version of my last design.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/star-3_zps79532b6f.jpg)
Thoughts?
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@Hawkeye:
My point about the TIE being a bad example is because for the purposes of this mod, the only things that are canon are the original trilogy (Eps IV-VI). I looked in the Noobie FAQ but unfortunately it's not stated out there, but Brand and Chief have stated repeatedly that this particular mod is using those and only those as an official point of reference - which happens to go along really nicely with my particular feelings on the matter. I understand that there are many differing views and opinions about these aspects of Star Wars, but for this mod that's the only one that counts. That was all I was trying to say. And since the AG never appeared in the films, for this mod there is a lot of freedom in its design - while there isn't for a TIE fighter.
@Rhettro:
I love your start there! The overall geometry feels very solid and in the right direction. That's just my own opinion, but I like it. I think there's plenty of room for you to play around with how the wing pods connect to the fuselage, but that's a great starting point.
That said, I'm not as big of a fan of your second image there. I like what you're trying to do, but just don't think the execution really works.
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Personally I like the look of starslayers design in 3D, I'm interested as to what it would look like if you incorporated the slanted pods in your sketch into it instead of the more standard side-on pods, might give it a more armoured look. However like CountBuggula I'm not big a fan on the rest of the sketch.
If you still want the slanted cockpit, you could maybe shorten the neck even more if you can so that the top of the body covers the plating above the canopy and give it a slight tilt. (If that makes sense.) Too much tilt might make it look weird.
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While you can follow along with 'whatever Lucas endorses is canon', you run into problems really quickly where canon starts to conflict with itself, like every prequel novel conflicting with the prequel trilogy, etc. The assault gunboat began as an ugly bunch of polygons in the first X-wing game, and I don't think anything that's been proposed so far has been too far off from that first impression. I do think rhettro has the perfect understanding of where the inspiration for this model needs to come from, and I applaud that, although at this point it shouldn't even have to be said.
rhettro, to address your direct question in your last post, the more I study what little there is on the gunboat, the more I'm thinking the pods need to be more aligned with the horizontal plane. It may be one of the features that makes or breaks any association anyone would have with the XG-1. Not sure what your thoughts on that are, but since you asked I'm being honest. Rest of it looks fine :)
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First, let me apologize if I come off rough. It's not intentional. Sure, I'm a jerk (all of my friends say much worse), but I don't actually set out to be like that. So apologies if I ruffle feathers.
@CountBuggula -- That makes perfect sense and I can agree. No one would really know (because I didn't say anything), but I was looking at it from more than just how it would fit in this mod. I make toys. I'd like to see the AG as a toy. I'd like to see it as a toy that I'd like to have.
@Chief -- Very true, and I was hoping someone would say that. My only point was that it's very arbitrary to say "we're only using *this*." Not saying it's bad, just arbitrary. Of course, when you drill down far enough, everything is arbitrary. :D
@Rhettro -- I quite like that. Maybe a little overall too wide, but I do really like where it's headed in this iteration. You're a good man. Very gracious in dealing with whiny people (most definitely me included). I'm glad to see you experimenting.
I agree with Chief in thinking that the pods should be more aligned in horizontally (I'm assuming we're talking the same thing here... not having them up-angled). That said... I absolutely despise the Missile Boat. It's supposed to be derived from the AG, but really doesn't look like it. Now, if you were to use your AG as a base, you could chop down the top fin and use the angled pods in place of the middle/angled fins and you'd be pretty much set. (and kill that stupid canard that the MB has on almost every pic)
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And, marginally related, I always thought the AG was supposed to be a two-seater. Tandem or side-by-side, but it should seat two. Just saying. But, I know, it's a single.
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No apology required, I didn't think you came off rough. Just civil discussion. Also, thanks for the additional background. What you've said makes more sense in that light. That said, hopefully we can come up with something that both fits our image of what the mod should be, AND something that would look awesome as a toy. Why not both!
Funny you say that about it being a two seater - while most canon sources that I'm aware of have it as a single seater, that's one of the things we already agreed on for this mod - we like the idea of it being a side-by-side two seater.
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The only part of starslayer's concept art that I didn't really like was how the slenderness of the central fuselage made it seem like a sleek rocket type of thing. I like how it's been widened out a bit in your (rhettro's) take on it, and I think you could maybe even widen it out a little more to make it more explicitly a two seater.
That width really makes it seem like the kind of thing that drives straight at the enemy and punches them in the face rather than something that wins by outmaneuvering other little guys. I think if you further developed that version using ideas from your more "flying tank"-like original sketches you could end up with something really great.
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I don't recall... Has a final size/length been decided upon? That might have some bearing on whether it's more fitting as tandem or side-by-side.
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Just thinking... I understand wanting it to be a little more squat/wide so it looks like a flying tank rather than a dart. But the narrow look helps keep it from looking like a scaled-down Lambda with two extra wings. A common design lineage should show some common features, but not copy wholesale. At least, that's my opinion. (This is actually a major pet peeve with me in the ST universe with that gawdawful BoP)
Yeah, I see why everyone hates this frakking ship.
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Psst! This thread has been bumped. Pass it on.
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It's not dead.
(http://s30.postimg.org/tfqo7pfep/Latest_April2014.jpg)
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Looks good, I'd say. Who knows maybe it'll get finished in time... :) Also, are you gonna make the Missile Boat later on?
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I think it looks really good. What sort of wing folding mechanisms are you envisioning to get it to be able to land? Do the missile pods themselves fold up or just the wings?
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Well done. In my eyes, you really found the right balance between redesigning the Gunboat and keeping the original design. :)
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Who knows maybe it'll get finished in time... :) Also, are you gonna make the Missile Boat later on?
Finished in time? That’s crazy talk. Hopefully soon though. :) I’m starting the Missile Boat right after this one, I even have a preliminary base modeled.
I think it looks really good. What sort of wing folding mechanisms are you envisioning to get it to be able to land? Do the missile pods themselves fold up or just the wings?
Thanks for the complement. I actually considered folding at the missile pods, but I think that may be too radical of a departure in design, so at this point it’ll just be the wings that fold.
Well done. In my eyes, you really found the right balance between redesigning the Gunboat and keeping the original design. :)
Thank you. I think this is the right direction and I look forward to polishing it up.
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Will the wings go straight up in their folded position or do they end up sticking out to the sides?
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Will the wings go straight up in their folded position or do they end up sticking out to the sides?
I was thinking of having them fold up to match the outside angle of the missile pods, like 70 degrees instead of 90.
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Wow, I'm really impressed! I'd about given up on this ship ever seeing the light of day, but it's looking almost ready for textures! I agree that it looks like it managed to keep just about the right amount if recognition while making a fresh take on the model, taking into consideration all the feedback and guidance (and debate) that's been thrown into it. Job very well done, and I look forward to seeing it to its completion.
As for the folding up wings, I think a good 70 degrees would work quite well and prevent the middle wings from having to fold as well - they could remain fixed with the vertical stabilizer, adding rigidity and cutting down on complexity. Keep it up.
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That looks really awesome!!!! I had thought that this was dead and buried for a while but its good to see you've made progress. Keep it up!!!
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A few minor tweaks, still lots to do.
(http://s20.postimg.org/d6t4ye4q5/gunboat_May2014.jpg)
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A few minor tweaks, still lots to do.
Overall, I like it. That said, there's some things I don't like all that much:
1) The gap between the gun pod and the wing. Makes it look fragile and toy-like.
2) The connection between the fusalage and the gun pod. Maybe it's just the angle, but it looks like there's just a single 2D wing connecting them. I'd like to see that connection much more solid-looking.
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There is going to be a gap at the wing, but there will be an edge treatment that makes it look better. As far as the pod to.fuselage goes, there is only a 2D plane in place right now. Just a visual cue until I can flesh it out some more.
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That looks super-good. It certainly bridges the gap between the Gunboat and the Missile Boat without losing the notable silhouette the original ship had.
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I like the look of it, though I too think that the wing attachment area could stand to be jazzed up. A larger indent in the upper side of the missile/engine pod where the wing attaches could make the shape of the pod more interesting overall and make the wing look more like it has a place to go during landing. Very cool stuff rhettro :)
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Slight update. Now in 3d.
Assault Gunboat - Prelim (View in 3D (https://p3d.in/cv8zD))
(https://p3d.in/model_data/snapshot/cv8zD) (https://p3d.in/cv8zD)
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Very nice. Did it make it into the first release?
Maybe we could make later a X-Wing Remake Campaign :)
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Looking really good! I'm loving the detail you've been adding to this, and the gap between the wings isn't as noticeable now. Not sure if it's because you shortened the gap or if it's just the extra squiggly bits that help mask it, but it works. I've mentioned before that I've never been a fan of the Assault Gunboat, but this is turning into a very good looking ship.
Very nice. Did it make it into the first release?
We're not close enough to release that we're freezing features or content. There's still time for it to make it into our first release, pending Chief's approval.
Maybe we could make later a X-Wing Remake Campaign :)
As much fun as that would be, there would be some SERIOUS balancing issues if you tried to port the missions directly ship to ship from X-Wing to FotG. Game mechanics are just that different. I'd certainly be behind a community project to recreate the X-Wing campaigns in spirit and bring them to life in this mod though.
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Yeah, there's no reason not to include a completed ship even if there's no room for it in the campaign. Gives the community more to play with.
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Maybe we could make later a X-Wing Remake Campaign :)
As much fun as that would be, there would be some SERIOUS balancing issues if you tried to port the missions directly ship to ship from X-Wing to FotG. Game mechanics are just that different. I'd certainly be behind a community project to recreate the X-Wing campaigns in spirit and bring them to life in this mod though.
I tried re-making the Redemption Scenario in FS2 (see sig). Turns out it was too easy.
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That gunboat isn't what I'm used to, but wow it looks superb regardless :nod: :yes:
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Looking very nice. Looks nice and solid, I particularly like the forward sweep look of the wings (I know its not actually forward swept but I hope you now what I mean.)
Looking forward to flying this bad-boy.
Maybe we could make later a X-Wing Remake Campaign :)
Id be interested in having a crack at making some TIE Fighter missions as well. :D
As for balancing I think that's were you use the cool SEXPs and features to give the campaigns a new fresh look i reckon.
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Argh! TIE fighter balance is even worse in some cases, unshielded craft with teeny-tiny hull are insanely difficult to survive in when you've got AI that's much better at aiming than the AI in the original TIE fighter :)
(but I'd still be keen to see a TIE fighter remake ;))
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Looks pretty good, i like the shape of the wings as well, the cockpit looks a bit off though, maybe thinner?
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Argh! TIE fighter balance is even worse in some cases, unshielded craft with teeny-tiny hull are insanely difficult to survive in when you've got AI that's much better at aiming than the AI in the original TIE fighter :)
(but I'd still be keen to see a TIE fighter remake ;))
Well my favourite missions from the early part basically were the assualt gunboat ones particularly taking out the Lulsa.
Can't wait to see the next update :D
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Looks pretty good, i like the shape of the wings as well, the cockpit looks a bit off though, maybe thinner?
There has been Significant (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=56008.0) discussion (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76448.0) already (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76595.0) about the shape and design of this craft. Needless to say, the direction that has been approved by Chief (and Brand) is to re-imagine it as a side by side two-seater with strong visual cues from the Lambda shuttle.
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well imo, the strong visual clues from the lambda are a bit too strong in the cockpit area, personally i think it looks more like a shuttle than a fighter/bomber. looks like the pilots have very limited forward view, maybe loose the raised part directly in front of cockpit. Thats just my opinion though
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I have to admit, I did have a similar feeling when viewing the last render. But overall it's stellar enough that I wasn't going to say anything. However, if rhettro is still looking for any constructive criticism, that's about the only one I'd have had to offer at this point.
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I still like the original better, but for the purposes of gauging board opinion I've posted two quick and dirty alternates for you to consider. Alt-1 has a narrower cockpit and Alt-2 has a narrower cockpit and missile pods as well as struts on the canopy.
I think once the individual components get narrow then the wings and fins seem a bit out of scale, then they would shrink and the overall "presence" of the ship would diminish.
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I like the original more however i do like the canopy struts. If I were to choose between the two alternates I would go Alt-1, narrowing the missile pods doesn't like right to me, seems to take away from the whole heavy hitter look.
I'm finding this model really good to look at and it gets better each time I admire it.
Keep it up
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Hmm. I also like the original better, but if I were to go with a variant it would be the first.
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alt-1 gets my vote
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Yes, go for ALT-1
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I'd vote for combining the missile pods from alt-1 with the cockpit struts from alt-2. :)
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This one still gets my vote.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Assault_zps2946a366.jpg)
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This one still gets my vote.
LOL, thanks bobbtmann. Perhaps after I finish my current model I'll go back and develop that design as a stand alone ship.
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This one still gets my vote.
LOL, thanks bobbtmann. Perhaps after I finish my current model I'll go back and develop that design as a stand alone ship.
Perhabs that one could be used as an early prototype for the Assault Gunboat (or even the Missile Boat).
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Or even an up gunned lambda shuttle.
Seems Cygnus was the one to stick guns on it. Why not add a couple of missile pods?
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Perhabs that one could be used as an early prototype for the Assault Gunboat (or even the Missile Boat).
I'd strip off the top fin, shorten other ones and make it the Missile Boat. It's a nice craft, though balancing it while still retaining it's "feel" from TIE Fighter could be hard. Certainly, a missile-oriented fighter would have a place in FoTG, though it'd be a niche/boss role, given how powerful missiles are.
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looks awesome, personally I think it just needs a small little bit more of chubbiness.. the main body looks sort of long... I remember them being more wide than long in that area... but might be my brain playing tricks on me...
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Oh a greebling we will go...
(http://s20.postimg.org/a63c0254d/Back.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/6l7ggu0kt/Bottom.jpg)
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Looking awesome!
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I was wondering how this was going.
Looking nice.
Now if this could be finished and FoTG released soon, I could kiss any hope of finishing uni this semester goodbye :D
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wooooooh! Keep up the good work :)
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When I can fly it? ^^ Shot down some rebel scums!
Details on the underside are amazing.
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High poly update.
Almost done with the mesh. Once the high poly model is complete, I tweak the low poly one and start unwrapping. This is my first attempt at baking a high poly to low poly model. Hopefully it will be okay. :confused:
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A few updated renders until my next update.
(http://s11.postimg.org/aj7tidhhf/Sept_1.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/l06rt15nx/Sept_2.jpg)
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I didn't even read the thread when I clicked the link in my email, just opened it, got distracted, came back to the tab, and my first thought immediately after spinning the model around was, "why is someone remaking our Lambda?"
I'm sure that was mostly the cockpit glass' fault :)
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Well, Lambda inspired is what we wanted right? LOL Once I get it textured I think it will have an identity all its own.
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Looks awesome. It's a sweet blend of the original low poly incarnation, elements of the Lambda, and some original ideas. The forward swept wings are especially nice IMO. Keep it up!
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Yep. Lambda inspired is spot-on. I'm so glad you're still making progress on this - keep it up!
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The forward swept wings are especially nice IMO.
Actually, its not really "forward swept". Its more like "forward-tapered".
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looking awesome :D :yes:
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Looks great.
Maybe you should take a look at its Baby :D
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Star-Wars-Return-Jedi-ISP-6-Imperial-Shuttle-Pod-Vehicle-Kenner-1983-New-/00/s/MTM4N1gxNjAw/z/1XMAAOxyeZNTWYL2/$_57.JPG)
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Hey, there's my new design direction. :nod:
Being an FFG X-Wings Miniatures fan, I did notice this baby over at Shapeways. http://www.shapeways.com/model/1645123/xg-1-star-wing-assault-gunboat-1-270.html?materialId=60 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/1645123/xg-1-star-wing-assault-gunboat-1-270.html?materialId=60)
I may be compelled to make a game piece out of my when it is done.
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I love your Gunboat :)
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I love your Gunboat :)
Thanks. :)
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At this point, I love any Gunboat that is actually being worked on. :) This ship fills an important niche in the Imperial fleet, and yet, it's still missing from FoTG. Hopefully, not for long (knocks on the wood...).
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Working on the UV right now. Looking forward to creating the textures.
(http://s20.postimg.org/5yvc7tkod/Screeny.png)
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Model is completely unwrapped. I'm tweaking the UVmap to make sure things lineup. The blue lines are from a bitmap texture of the lowpoly unwrap.
(http://s3.postimg.org/pbf4pqz0j/UV_Check.jpg)
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That's pretty hot!
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Looking very mean, are you going for a dark gray or a light gray (I take from this dark, but i dont know how close to the final this is)
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That was just a test texture to tweak my UVmap, which I completed last night. As a result I was able to bake my AO texture. Below is a rendering with the AO texture applied.
(http://s9.postimg.org/sqloievun/Star_Wing.jpg)
The mesh is done, the UV unwrap completed and the AO bake texture created. So now I can finally start on the textures for the final look. I have been playing around with the idea of having the model a darker blueish grey, similar to the ties in ROTJ, to further differentiate it from the Lambda shuttle. I'm not sure yet. But I do want to add some color highlights to it like the original game model, but Imperial blue instead of Rebel red.
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Hoho, wow. This looks so good now. Unbelievable, considering the history of failed gunboats leading up to this.
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That is looking very impressive!
I would go the darker Blue grays with some imperial blues, I think that would look nice.
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Looking very nice :yes:
As for the colour scheme, you could possibly use team colours (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ships.tbl#.24Enable_Team_Colors:) which makes it easy to apply either Rebel Red stripes or Imperial Blue in game without requiring separate models for each.
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As for the colour scheme, you could possibly use team colours (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ships.tbl#.24Enable_Team_Colors:) which makes it easy to apply either Rebel Red stripes or Imperial Blue in game without requiring separate models for each.
Just separate base textures would do, though. We can do it with team colors too, assuming someone tells me the right RGB values for the tables.
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I love that UV test pic. Star-Wars Tron style!
This is coming along great. Glad you're still working on it.
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Hey guys,
Sorry for the delay, between work and honey dews I haven't had much time to work on the Assault Boat. Currently I'm working on my bump map texture to show the paneling. Below is a quick test, I used PhotoShop paths and I don't find them accurate enough. So I'm going redo them using AutoCAD and Inkscape. Once the panels are laid out I can start planning over all colors and dirt. I'm trying to commit more time so I can get this bird completed.
(http://s14.postimg.org/ryenl39yp/top3_8_15.jpg)
(http://s24.postimg.org/itndt5g9x/bottom3_8_15.jpg)
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That looks quite detailed. I like it. :)
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Looking really good :yes:
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Thanks for checking in, rhettro - it's looking great! I'm glad you've been able to squeeze a bit of work into this - I understand how life can make that difficult.
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VERY nice. Looking good, rhettro. :yes:
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dem panels are teh sexy
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:yes:
[attachment deleted by nobody]
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Looks really professional, details are amazing, i cannot wait to blow up :cool:, many thanks .
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How's the texturing going, rhettro? Things were looking great last time we heard from you. Have anything new to show us?
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Still working on it. I'm sort of blanking on how to proceed with the texture. I've got it UV unwrapped and the Photoshop layers setup. I guess i need to break up the surfaces a bit more, then start thinking of dirt. There aren't a lot of modern spaceship texturing tutorials on the internet, at least not for low poly ships.
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I would think the dirt layer would be last, and making a nice pretty, new looking ship would be first. Plus it's imperial so it wouldn't be very dirty anyway would it?
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Yeah the empire keeps their ships pretty well maintained. No dirt at all on TIE Fighters.
Feel free to go back and look again at the lambda for inspiration if needed.
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(http://s30.postimg.org/cnb20bra9/Star11.jpg)
Playing around with a few ideas. I've got momentum going again.
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Nice! Might I suggest shrinking down the Imperial Emblem a bit? Maybe use this for inspiration to make it a bit more subtle:
(http://media.dma.mil/2003/Feb/10/2000030393/-1/-1/0/010205-F-1631A-001.JPG)
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Now that I look at it, that F-16 is probably a good inspiration for dirt too. Doesn't have to be really heavy, just look for obvious places where there might be a bit of grease stain.
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Real air forces keep all their kit clean. Especially vintage kit.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/07/article-2337573-1A33D8BF000005DC-919_634x357.jpg)
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Fixed your link there
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Thank you The E. <3
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(https://www.aerometals.aero/Military_Images/A10.jpg)
I think I stated earlier that the A10 would be more of an inspiration for the Assault Wing. Although as far as panel / dirt goes, it's about the same.
Idea for the color actually comes from the original video model.
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080714051235/starwars/images/2/2c/XWA-Xg1-3d-new.jpg)
I'm just using blue to make it look Imperial and I think it helps differentiate its look from the Lambda Shuttle. The lines were made with the PS pen tool, which is a pain. I'm going to redo them in either AutoCAD or Inkscape. But, basically they were layed out to show design intent.
I am going to shrink the decals, and I'll likely tone down the brilliance of the color.
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I think using the A-10 for inspiration is a fabulous idea.
Personally, I'm not totally sold on the blue patches, but I may change my mind after seeing them lighter. Honestly I'd prefer more visual cues matching with the lambda, not less. And since we don't see any of that sort of marking on other Imperial ships in the films...
Maybe Chief could weigh in with his opinion?
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Yeah, I'll admit that an 'Unborn' Gunboat doesn't really need to draw too much more from the video game styling decisions. Sticking closer to movie ships, real life, etc would probably come closer to the feel we're looking for. That said, it would help if it was easily distinguishable from the shuttle, from a gameplay perspective. I think a shrunken emblem would help more than removing the blue, it's less surface area already than the old one and much more subdued overall.
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I thought the blue touch was actually quite nice, you could always try making it more the blue seen on the TIEs maybe to coincide with the colour/tones of the Imperials.
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The giant missile pods, guns, and extra wings already change the silhouette enough from the Lambda that I don't think anything else is really needed as far as gameplay goes. I'd say focus on getting the panel lines cleaned up, find some good places to put some subtle dirt and grime, and maybe a smaller and lower contrast imperial emblem. Show us what you have then, and we can make a more educated decision as to whether panel colors are needed/wanted.
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Hi
http://fractalsponge.net/?p=130
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Hi
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