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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: starbug on August 05, 2013, 11:16:24 am

Title: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: starbug on August 05, 2013, 11:16:24 am
Last night on BBC ONE, the 12th doctor was revealed as the amazingly talented Peter Capaldi's will be the 12th doctor and it about time we had an older doctor and another Scottish actor. Hours after the announcement people have already started complaining.

1. At 55 he is to old. Right the first doctor William Hartnell was 55 when it all started.
2. He has been in doctor who before. So was Colin Baker, David Tennant was in several audio adventures and the animated Scream of Shalka which is coming out on DVD.
3. He's not David Tennant. Erm tough he's done his time.
4. He's Scottish, the doctor should be British. Erm last time i checked Scotland is part of Britain. Also Sylvestor McCoy and David Tennant are Scottish!

Also to top if off, apparently America is unhappy with the choice and want it changed, they say it should of been another young actor, according to some American newspaper. Er no sorry you have no say in this. I'm mean no offence to any Americans but its a British show and i know many many, American fans who prefer an older actor.

Seriously what the hell, the guy hasn't even been seen as the Doctor yet and he's already being judged its crazy. I think its the best choice the BBC and Steven Moffat has made. Don't get me wrong Matt Smith was really good and did the best he could with some really bad scripts and I'll miss him. But an older doctor is needed and i wish Peter Capaldi all the best for the role!

Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Dark Hunter on August 05, 2013, 11:37:23 am
With a show as popular as Doctor Who, there's always going to be complaining when a new Doctor comes along. There was complaining when David Tennant was announced, there was complaining when Matt Smith was announced. I wasn't around during Classic Who, but I'll bet there was a bunch of complaining about new Doctors back then too.

Let the silly people blow off their steam. It shouldn't affect you.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Polpolion on August 05, 2013, 11:41:28 am
Quote
Also to top if off, apparently America is unhappy with the choice and want it changed, they say it should of been another young actor, according to some American newspaper. Er no sorry you have no say in this.

Is America a person now or something? Continents can't even watch tv!
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: StarSlayer on August 05, 2013, 11:46:30 am
I wasn't around during Classic Who, but I'll bet there was a bunch of complaining about new Doctors back then too.

Let the silly people blow off their steam. It shouldn't affect you.

Without the internet not only was it difficult to stoke nerd rage in a furnace of shared invective but it could only be transmitted via written word in the post. :P 
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: starbug on August 05, 2013, 12:11:27 pm
Quote
Is America a person now or something? Continents can't even watch tv!

What i meant is the powers that be, that are in charge of show BBC programs in America want the actor replaced with a younger one. Also it doesn't effect me at all i just find it so funny with some of these complaints. Some of the ones on twitter are hysterical!
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: An4ximandros on August 05, 2013, 12:13:55 pm
...
Without the internet not only was it difficult to stoke nerd rage in a furnace of shared invective but it could only be transmitted via written word in the post. :P
The Internet, enabling people to spread their bile towards the whole human race in an ultimately efficient manner.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: swashmebuckle on August 05, 2013, 12:22:13 pm
I've only watched a little bit of the show but my facebook feed was dominated for a short while by the grumblings of people who seem to like the actor but are disappointed that they didn't pick a woman or someone who isn't white. Personally, I think they should let the robot dog have the spotlight for a while.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Ghostavo on August 05, 2013, 12:23:24 pm
Still not ginger!
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 05, 2013, 01:10:18 pm
You're late. I checked Gallifrey Base about 20 minutes after the announcement and there were fans reporting that they'd already seen people complaining!

**** 'em.

I very much doubt that anyone in the BBC UK is going to give a toss what they think. Certainly not enough to be involved in a humiliating climb down if they don't keep him as the new Doctor after all the fuss they made announcing him.

Let's just hope they made him sign a longer contract than the last three guys though. The Doctor is burning through his regenerations way too quickly. Four of them in just 8 years? :p
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Dark Hunter on August 05, 2013, 01:28:14 pm
If the Master can get new regenerations over the years, I'm certain they'll think up a way for the Doctor to do it too.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Scotty on August 05, 2013, 01:46:55 pm
You're late. I checked Gallifrey Base about 20 minutes after the announcement and there were fans reporting that they'd already seen people complaining!

**** 'em.

I very much doubt that anyone in the BBC UK is going to give a toss what they think. Certainly not enough to be involved in a humiliating climb down if they don't keep him as the new Doctor after all the fuss they made announcing him.

Let's just hope they made him sign a longer contract than the last three guys though. The Doctor is burning through his regenerations way too quickly. Four of them in just 8 years? :p

Wasn't David Tennant the longest running Doctor?  How is that burning through them too fast? :P
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: starbug on August 05, 2013, 02:06:20 pm
Nope overall TV wise Tom Baker is the longest. New series wise, i think Smith and Tennant are about the same
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 05, 2013, 02:26:21 pm
If the Master can get new regenerations over the years, I'm certain they'll think up a way for the Doctor to do it too.

Hell, maybe they'll say they've already done it and River Song passed him hers. That gives me another 10 or so.

It's not that I'm worried about how they'll solve the issue so much as I'd be happy to see the Doctors get a longer tenure. We barely got to see Christopher Eccleston (Or Paul McGann for that matter) and even David Tennant only gave us 3 whole seasons (Plus some specials).
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Beskargam on August 05, 2013, 02:29:57 pm
I, an American, was hoping for a younger doctor, but I reserve judgement until I actually see him as the doctor.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 05, 2013, 02:46:53 pm
Older doctor means less running. I've always wondered why in 900+ years the Doctor never seems to encounter anything which can run faster than he can. :p
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 05, 2013, 02:49:16 pm
older doctor means no clumsy companion sexual tension and idiotic hamming about bowties and fezes

sadly that's not really enough to counteract all the moffat
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 05, 2013, 02:59:47 pm
Yeah, cause going on about some weird obsession is completely unlike Dr Who.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnpkQm67cfA
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Nuke on August 05, 2013, 03:18:28 pm
Sir Patrick Stewart should be the new doctor. that is all.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Scotty on August 05, 2013, 03:20:21 pm
Sir Patrick Stewart should be the new doctor. that is all.

I fully agree with Nuke.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 05, 2013, 04:27:14 pm
Sir Patrick Stewart should be the new doctor. that is all.

I fully agree with Nuke.

The epicness of that might break the universe.

The new guy looks interesting though.  I reserve judgement.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: headdie on August 05, 2013, 06:05:31 pm
Interesting choice, I hope we get some serious eccentricity this time around.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 05, 2013, 09:22:29 pm
Sir Patrick Stewart should be the new doctor. that is all.

Brain Blessed.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 05, 2013, 09:43:00 pm
aren't they both ~100 by now
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Dragon on August 06, 2013, 01:51:00 pm
No, they're not that old. Though Christopher Lee is nearing 100 and certainly doesn't seem like it's going to let it inconvenience him. Could be interesting to see how he'd do as The Doctor. :)
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: AtomicClucker on August 06, 2013, 04:24:13 pm
Why am I seeing an expy of Saruman playing the role of the chief villian? XP
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Hobbie on August 06, 2013, 07:18:25 pm
Ahem.

JEREMY CLARKSON.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Flipside on August 06, 2013, 08:21:32 pm
I like the choice, though, I wish Hugh Laurie had been in the running... Though that's something that probably sounds better than it would work.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: AtomicClucker on August 06, 2013, 09:25:34 pm
I like the choice, though, I wish Hugh Laurie had been in the running... Though that's something that probably sounds better than it would work.

The Doctor, he needs he pain meds and sidekicks for extreme verbal abuse~
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Grizzly on August 07, 2013, 01:23:04 am
Wait.
What happened to John Hurt?
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on August 07, 2013, 01:52:12 am
We don't know. He's a secret.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 07, 2013, 02:04:03 am
Wait.
What happened to John Hurt?

John Hurt was never going to be the 12th Doctor. He's a regeneration from before the 11th Doctor.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: headdie on August 07, 2013, 03:58:14 am
Wait.
What happened to John Hurt?

john hunt is a regeneration/aspect of the doctor which the doctor never acknowledges due to betraying the doctor in some way and will probably turn up again at some point, probably in the next few series with some dramatic plot twist.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Nuke on August 07, 2013, 05:37:28 am
hes the ****ing valeyard mother****er.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 07, 2013, 08:53:21 am
That's a possibility, but the Valeyard exists between the 12th and 13th incarnation supposedly, so he's a little early. I suspect he's from between the 8th and 9th Doctor. Right in the middle of the Time War.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: The E on August 07, 2013, 09:06:58 am
Wasn't that basically confirmed already? That Hurt was the Doctor who fought the Time War?
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Flipside on August 07, 2013, 09:28:42 am
I like the choice, though, I wish Hugh Laurie had been in the running... Though that's something that probably sounds better than it would work.

The Doctor, he needs he pain meds and sidekicks for extreme verbal abuse~

That, I think, is why they stick to less 'established' actors for the role. One of the producers mentioned that he thought Tony Robinson would make a good Doctor were it not for the fact that every scriptwriter would be fighting the urge not to write the line, "Fear not! For I... have a cunning plan!" for the entire tenure ;)
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 07, 2013, 02:20:06 pm
Wasn't that basically confirmed already? That Hurt was the Doctor who fought the Time War?

I don't think it was confirmed. For instance there is the possibility that the 1st Doctor was actually his first regeneration and Hurt was what he was before he decided to steal a Tardis and call himself The Doctor.

I do think that him being from the Time War period is more likely though.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Piemanlives on August 07, 2013, 06:25:17 pm
I do think that him being from the Time War period is more likely though.

From what I read, the 7th, 4th, and 8th doctors were involved in the time war in some way shape or form.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 08, 2013, 03:51:27 am
Well the Doctor may have actually started the war when the Time Lords sent him to Skaro to try to prevent the Daleks from being created.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Flipside on August 08, 2013, 10:16:25 am
The thing is that I find interesting is that the Doctor admitted that when he was young he used to 'play' at being old, regenerating as Hartnell, Troughton etc and that when he got older he started regenerating younger (almost a time-lord mid-life crisis). It'll be good to see an older Doctor in an older body and how he behaves.

As for the War with Skaro, Bakers Doctor probably fired the first shot, but I think it wasn't until McCoy's Doctor and the Dalek attempts to infiltrate Gallifrey that it all really took a dive.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: starbug on August 08, 2013, 01:59:42 pm
Yeah the Time lords drew first blood in Genesis of the Daleks in the Time War, then things really started to get going in when the Daleks invaded Gallifrey in the audio adventure the Apocalypse Element, with the 6 doctor. These are now considered cannon according to Russel T Davis
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on August 08, 2013, 08:41:33 pm
If the Master can get new regenerations over the years, I'm certain they'll think up a way for the Doctor to do it too.
The regeneration limit was solely a social limit imposed by the Time Lords; now that the Doctor's the only one left, all the Doctor has to do is... decide not to apply it. Gee, that was hard.

I'm just really pissed off about Moffat.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Beskargam on August 08, 2013, 09:25:51 pm
Why does everyone dislike moffat? imo his writing has been the lion's share of better episodes
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Scotty on August 08, 2013, 09:42:10 pm
Moffat is great with one-shots and two-parters.

Given the reins for the whole season, he quickly tries to out-clever himself.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on August 08, 2013, 10:16:37 pm
Why does everyone dislike moffat? imo his writing has been the lion's share of better episodes
Because words come out of his mouth (http://rosalindluteced.tumblr.com/post/57354748420).
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 09, 2013, 01:15:42 am
Cause he made a joke? Or cause he didn't have a female doctor?
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: The E on August 09, 2013, 01:28:55 am
Because his apparent insistence that the Doctor has to be a male is ... baffling, to say the least.

(Of course, I would like to see him leave Who and hand over the reigns to someone else for different reasons as well, his plots are kinda getting stale)
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 09, 2013, 03:04:43 am
Because his apparent insistence that the Doctor has to be a male is ... baffling, to say the least.

Sound like people are reading way too much into a joke. Especially since Moffat has said that he's happy to do a female doctor when the time is right (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a503989/steven-moffat-on-female-doctor-who-rumours-it-didnt-feel-right.html).
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 09, 2013, 04:22:52 am
still don't get this insistence that keeping the doctor male constitutes bigotry
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: The E on August 09, 2013, 04:28:18 am
It doesn't. A selective reading of certain quotes does help to establish that image though.

For the record: His justification, "That not enough people wanted it", is imho bull****. Following that kind of logic led Gene Roddenberry to scrap the female first officer in the original Star Trek, I am of the opinion that it's better to be bold and just do it instead of waiting for some poll or focus group to tell you that it's the right idea.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 09, 2013, 04:37:43 am
i'm no fan of moffat (or his track record with female characters) but to be fair i'm sure a lot of those comments were made as a result of people pressuring him for a justification for not having a female doctor, when he shouldn't need one at all
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Nuke on August 09, 2013, 05:28:02 am
a female doctor would be interesting, especially if she ran into river song again  ;7

now i must wait for rule 35 to run its course.  :nod:
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 09, 2013, 07:13:30 am
i'm no fan of moffat (or his track record with female characters) but to be fair i'm sure a lot of those comments were made as a result of people pressuring him for a justification for not having a female doctor, when he shouldn't need one at all

I suspect that's exactly what is going on. It's not like there hasn't been a concious effort to occasionally mention the Doctor isn't heterosexual. It strikes me as very strange that people are so quick to say "Oh, Moffat doesn't want to cast a woman." or "He doesn't want to try something new with the Doctor" when they've already broken a far bigger taboo.

Moffat actually clearly stated that Peter Capaldi came to mind last time round but he thought the time wasn't right for him to be the Doctor, so he cast Matt Smith instead. Is it that hard to believe that he simply cast him now because whatever he felt didn't fit the first time round has now been dealt with?
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: The E on August 09, 2013, 07:23:52 am
No, but honestly? For a series that has a character as mercurial as the Doctor starring in it, it has been pretty stagnant these past few years. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who would have liked a bit of a shake-up here, and while Capaldi may be great in the role, he won't offer the opportunity to show something from the Doctor we have never seen before.

Might be that that's just Moffat fatigue speaking, or the rather big disappointment of that last season.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 09, 2013, 07:46:29 am
I think if Moffat can't do anything interesting with an actor as experienced and flexible as Capaldi, then having a female Doctor would be a fleeting gimmick without any real weight to it.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 09, 2013, 10:17:00 am
Why was I under the impression that Time Lord sex is fixed, while physical species traits are not?  I thought there was canonical justification for no female Doctor (not due to sexuality, but rather physical sex).
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Lorric on August 09, 2013, 10:22:23 am
Why would you want a female Doctor anyway? I don't see what merit it would have over a male Doctor, but I do see a big potential backlash. It's not as if Doctor Who is a sausage-fest. You get the Doctor and a female companion, who is just as important and prominent as the Doctor, and it works.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 09, 2013, 10:43:37 am
Why was I under the impression that Time Lord sex is fixed, while physical species traits are not?  I thought there was canonical justification for no female Doctor (not due to sexuality, but rather physical sex).

"Three eyes, no eyes, no head..." or something to that effect (I'm pretty sure about the no head thing) during a new Who regen scene. That suggests an awful lot of flexibility.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Scotty on August 09, 2013, 10:45:47 am
Why was I under the impression that Time Lord sex is fixed, while physical species traits are not?  I thought there was canonical justification for no female Doctor (not due to sexuality, but rather physical sex).

The... Corsair? gets mentioned as having a female regeneration in The Doctor's Wife.  Either The Corsair of The Rani, don't remember which.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 09, 2013, 10:58:09 am
Why was I under the impression that Time Lord sex is fixed, while physical species traits are not?  I thought there was canonical justification for no female Doctor (not due to sexuality, but rather physical sex).

"Three eyes, no eyes, no head..." or something to that effect (I'm pretty sure about the no head thing) during a new Who regen scene. That suggests an awful lot of flexibility.

And, just like the idea of Time Lords being able to regenerate as a different gender, this has never actually been shown with any appearance of one: all of them have been human, and all the ones we've seen multiple regenerations of have kept their gender. It's Doctor Who for god's sake, your fatal flaw was treating series continuity like it mattered.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 09, 2013, 11:03:42 am
Why was I under the impression that Time Lord sex is fixed, while physical species traits are not?  I thought there was canonical justification for no female Doctor (not due to sexuality, but rather physical sex).

"Three eyes, no eyes, no head..." or something to that effect (I'm pretty sure about the no head thing) during a new Who regen scene. That suggests an awful lot of flexibility.

Indeed, but it's been hinted a great deal that the Doctor remains fixedly male when taking human form.  The consistent use of the pronoun 'he' being one.  Not to say that the writers can't deal with that issue in order to allow for a female regeneration, just that the very little we know of Time Lord regeneration actually suggests it isn't a flexible as the Doctor's statements might have us believe.  Consider that the Doctor continuously ends up visually human after 12 regeneration cycles, despite his constant exclamations about 'what do I look like am I purple etc.'

It can be dealt with, but this is one situation where I see some continuity along the lines of physical sex being beneficial.  We already know the Doctor is not heterosexual; I think invoking a female Doctor might actually dilute that rather groundbreaking revelation.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 09, 2013, 02:23:16 pm
The... Corsair? gets mentioned as having a female regeneration in The Doctor's Wife.  Either The Corsair of The Rani, don't remember which.

The Corsair is mentioned as having both male and female regenerations.

"Didn't feel like himself unless he had a tattoo. Or herself a couple of times. She was a bad girl!"


So it's pretty much canon that a Time Lord can change sex. On top of that, Romana actually tried on several bodies before picking one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeneration_%28Doctor_Who%29#Romana.27s_regeneration) (Although I don't think she tried on a male one, the point is that Time Lord regeneration can be different from the way we've seen the Doctor do it).
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 09, 2013, 02:29:45 pm
Whelp, I stand - sit - corrected.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Nuke on August 09, 2013, 03:55:03 pm
i wonder if you can cause an orgasm with a sonic screwdriver.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Beskargam on August 11, 2013, 02:46:54 pm
i wonder if you can cause an orgasm with a sonic screwdriver.
You clearly Haven't read some of the fan-fiction out there
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 11, 2013, 03:14:17 pm
i wonder if you can cause an orgasm with a sonic screwdriver.

It doesn't do wood.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: headdie on August 11, 2013, 03:46:09 pm
 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Nuke on August 11, 2013, 04:26:02 pm
i wonder if you can cause an orgasm with a sonic screwdriver.

It doesn't do wood.

the context was hawt lesbian action
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: Bobboau on August 14, 2013, 12:11:05 am
He's a regeneration from before the 11th Doctor.

wasn't The Doctor in a sort of timeywimey thing that connected all points in his life when The Not The Doctor showed up? can we really say for sure that TNTD was an incarnation from before the 11th? I agree that the most likely outcome is that he was the incarnation who fought in the time war, but I think my #2 option would have to be Valeyard.
Title: Re: Oh god the 12th doctor hatred has already started!
Post by: karajorma on August 14, 2013, 11:17:49 am
Clara never mentions the other regenerations of the Doctor from after the 11th. She's strangely specific about it in fact.

That's why I suspect he's not the Valeyard. But yeah, it's a possibility that they decided that's what he'd be.