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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: ShivanSpS on August 21, 2013, 12:58:09 am

Title: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: ShivanSpS on August 21, 2013, 12:58:09 am
So i was bored today, and i did this, its a nice step by step :P

(http://i.imgur.com/d4lQ3H4.png)

I can see now why this thing is so heavily armed for what it is. Im still unsure if was always armed like this or it was a "emergency procedure", like ordering to arm all civilians ships.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 21, 2013, 05:54:24 am
The Hippocrates has an LTerSlash; it's about as heavily-armed as a Myrmidon.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Veers on August 21, 2013, 06:26:45 am
As slow as that was, with clippy sound and everything.

I did enjoy watching the Sat devour whatever it felt like while being slow.. slashed to death.

It gave up after a while, which was also rather amusing. :)
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Aesaar on August 21, 2013, 11:01:42 am
Played on Insane, Sath won with 16%.  It would have probably lost if it hadn't gotten out of the the swarm and then turned around.  Once it turned around, it took about 2 minutes for the attack force to go from 35 to 0.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: ShivanSpS on August 21, 2013, 12:17:10 pm
The only way it can win if it goes down, way down, so it gets outside the firing arc of the slashes, in that case you can order the hippocrates to attack him, that ends in a mess but they will attack him again.

Its quite unrealistic that a ship of that size and mass can make those 360° turns like that and able to outmarouver the small ships, i was thinking about using waypoints to simulate something better, but the AI is not smart enoght to fly waypoints as wings, keeping distance and height from each other, there no way i gona do 51 waypoints paths.

The Hippocrates has an LTerSlash; it's about as heavily-armed as a Myrmidon.

Its still a lot for what it is, and the LTerSlash its quite good to destroy turrets and subsystems, if a Cain decides to attack 2-3 Hippocrates and its on the firing arc of the slashes, there is a high chance all of them to survive because the slashes will destroy the Cain main turret, but it depends a lot of luck too.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Aesaar on August 21, 2013, 02:34:59 pm
From the start position's perspective, the Sathanas went right, which put it out of range of a lot of the swarm.  LRed picked off quite a few of them, but the BFReds were ridiculous (as expected).  If the swarm spawned in from of the Sath instead of below, they wouldn't have a chance.

I wish I could have recorded it.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Luis Dias on August 21, 2013, 03:54:24 pm
In my case it sit there taking it like a boss. Then suddenly it stopped behaving like a boss and went full blowny on me.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: ShivanSpS on August 21, 2013, 04:07:00 pm
From the start position's perspective, the Sathanas went right, which put it out of range of a lot of the swarm.  LRed picked off quite a few of them, but the BFReds were ridiculous (as expected).  If the swarm spawned in from of the Sath instead of below, they wouldn't have a chance.

I wish I could have recorded it.

it does not change much, if they spawn in front and give all of them the order of attack they will get out of the foward beams firing arcs fast, and foward flaks will get destroyed.

Also, trying to jump in in front of a Sathanas is not a smart thing at all.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Lorric on August 21, 2013, 04:45:31 pm
I gave this a try on insane. They crushed the Sathanas. 33 ships survived. Screenshots attached.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on August 22, 2013, 01:53:01 pm
When 30 hospital ships trumps a colossus...

I'm curious about all the tests run until now: if this mission doesn't perform well, it's important to remember that beam damage in FSO drops if the framerate is very low. (Related to the same bug of x16 time compression causing beams to do less damage)
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Luis Dias on August 22, 2013, 02:00:33 pm
My PC ran it quite well, never stuttered or anything. Sathanas still loses. Those hospitals kick ass!
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Lorric on August 22, 2013, 02:11:51 pm
It was smooth as silk for me.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: docfu on August 23, 2013, 11:34:47 am
Ditto, was nice for watching beam effects, especially when the Sathanas drops to 5% and the beams sweep through the hull.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Lorric on August 23, 2013, 02:33:26 pm
Ditto, was nice for watching beam effects, especially when the Sathanas drops to 5% and the beams sweep through the hull.
Hm? Does something different occur when the ship drops to 5%?
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 23, 2013, 02:41:00 pm
Piercing effects.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: ShivanSpS on August 23, 2013, 08:27:30 pm
The problem is that the Sathanas has way too few weapons, on the hull, they are mostly AA, except for the LRED, the ship is just not designed to be attacked, its more, "go there, blow up stuff fast, jump out", like the Lucifer.

If you plan any attack on them its easy, just do not attack it from the front, the Colossus is harder to kill.


As for the Hippocrates, they definately designed to aid in convoy escort, 2 of them can easily kill a Cain, 3 of them can bring a Rakshasa down to 50%, its not like you gona send them to the front lines, but they can help a lot.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Lorric on August 23, 2013, 08:34:50 pm
The problem is that the Sathanas has way to few weapons, on the hull, they are mostly AA, except for the LRED, the ship is just not designed to be attacked, its more, "go there, blow up stuff fast, jump out", like the Lucifer.
It's a big, but highly specialised ship. It's there to kill big targets with all it's firepower at the front. You'd imagine, even though you don't see it in FS2, that it should have a big escort. It would crush the fleet vessels in front of it, and the escorts would take care of the rest.

I was particularly surprised with the "destroy navigation subsystem" directive, the way those bombers simply went up to it and then just sat there shooting, there were no turrets at all to impede them.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: ShivanSpS on August 23, 2013, 08:45:57 pm
I was particularly surprised with the "destroy navigation subsystem" directive, the way those bombers simply went up to it and then just sat there shooting, there were no turrets at all to impede them.

Me too, thats the one point in where the Zeus is better than the others bombers except the Ursa, dual Maxim.

As for the attack itselft, i did what i think command wanted to do with it on the nebula (but with destroyers), and they never got a chance to do it, lure it intro a trap, take out nav so it cant jump, them attack it from the sides.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Luis Dias on August 26, 2013, 08:44:42 am
The Sathanas is probably designed with so few weapons for cpu reasons. If it had been designed without speed optimization in mind, it would probably wreck everything that was close to it.

Anyways, [V] is off the hook on this one for we are never told that the Sathanas' design is one of space superiority and area suppression, etc., however we are visually told that its main purpose is to create crazy subspace phenomena near stars that will eventually blow them up as well. In this sense, we can see the Sathanas not as a giant juggernaught but as a giant Excavator whose main mechanism at the front also performs admirably well as a weapon.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: karajorma on August 27, 2013, 07:23:51 pm
Basically the Shivan version of Killdozer (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071717/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1). :p
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on August 27, 2013, 07:36:30 pm
Basically the Shivan version of Killdozer (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071717/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1). :p

For a minute, I thought you were referring to that dude who made a bulldozer into a homemade tank and went on a rampage.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: karajorma on August 27, 2013, 07:40:38 pm
Well in that case we're talking about someone weaponising an everyday piece of equipment. Which might be appropriate there. For all we know the Sathanas might need those long arms for star manipulation and the Shivans realised they could stick some beam cannons in there to use up the empty space.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Dragon on August 27, 2013, 08:27:31 pm
Maybe the beam cannons are just a side function of the star manipulation device. Heck, maybe that's where all beam cannons come from. Originally a side effect of the star manipulator, Shivans scaled them down and adopted to use as weapons. That would be an interesting twist.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Luis Dias on August 28, 2013, 02:34:43 am
That was just basically what I *always* thought since the nineties when I first played the game... The Sathanas was clearly a ship designed for doing something really important, and meanwhile they can slap the meaningless wasps and the bees with it. The fleet is not even a battle fleet, but a construction fleet with some minor escorts, and can anyone please get out these annoying terrorizing wasps on my face? Good god they destroyed one of our excavators! Jesus F Christ, someone call the security this is not a good working environment!
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Scotty on August 28, 2013, 08:28:31 pm
Shivan BFReds are obviously not merely beam weapons, but instead self-contained mobile subspace nodes that the Sathanas can manipulate to open artificial, short duration jump gates to the heart of a star, channel through a "nozzle" toward enemy vessels.  That's how BFReds violate thermodynamics and get away with it.
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: BengalTiger on September 01, 2013, 10:36:33 am
Well in that case we're talking about someone weaponising an everyday piece of equipment.

Like putting a beam cannon on a medical cruiser?
Title: Re: 50 Hippocrates VS 1 Sathanas
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 01, 2013, 11:29:54 am
I wonder if a few wings of bombers would be able to destroy all the medical frigates.