Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: CT27 on August 25, 2013, 06:44:27 pm
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In a campaign I played not too long ago, during a mission, two pilots were arguing about which fighter won the Great War. One pilot said the GTF Hercules won the Great War but one spoke up and actually said it was the GTF Apollo that helped the most to win the Great War.
Which of those two fighters do you think did the most to help win the Great War...or was it another fighter/bomber?
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First off, which campaign, secondly, I would vote for the Apollo, it was a versatile craft that could fill a variety of roles.
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what does the question even mean
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Nearly all of them. Because at one point or another I was sat in them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3yrVpuIyVA#t=8m55s
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the valk of course
fast, agile, deadly
and the ursa, but only because of the very last mission ;)
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It's a valid question, and there's no need to include context, ship models already provide it for you.
For me it was the Apollo, sure the Herc finished the job but the Apollo was there for far more time. Also I liked the Apollo a lot more that the Herc.
Anyway, the choice is WAY personal, it's bound to be influenced by preferences from the player.
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Fighters make headlines, bombers make history.
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In a campaign I played not too long ago, during a mission, two pilots were arguing about which fighter won the Great War. One pilot said the GTF Hercules won the Great War but one spoke up and actually said it was the GTF Apollo that helped the most to win the Great War.
I don't think I've played that campaign but in the 4th training mission, Samsa flat out states it's the Herc.
The 107th is a heavy assault squadron, so our fighter of choice is the Hercules Mark II. Implementing advances in fusion drive technology, the Mark II improves the assault fighter's speed and maneuverability without sacrificing loadout. The Herc has only two missile banks, but its ordnance capacity is greater than the Myrmidon's. The original Herc won the Great War, so we're proud to carry on the tradition
Okay, he's somewhat biased, but he's also got access to a lot more information on the war than we have.
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I used the Athena A LOT on key missions, it does not fit Prom or Banshe because it whould be way overpowered, the Athena can go fast, disarm ships, take down cruicers, provide a deadly anti-bomber screen, the Herc is closer to do the same, but its slower and it feels weaker in comparison, also love the Athena Primary gun position.
I never liked the Zeus as its reeplacement.
The Apollo its too big for a fighter.
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Ulysses or ursa. the lucifer would not have gone down without the ursa. the uly was an insane dogfighter and best cover provider for the bombers. i never used the apollo again once the valk and then the uly was available.
although when my flying skills inexplicably disappeared as i got older, i did have to hang up the uly in favor of the valk, because i now needed a less sensitive fighter and the banshee/slightly larger missile stores to compensate. but man, the first 15-20 times through the campaign, i mowed shivans down laughing with that ulysses. in those days i didn't even have trouble disabling that dragon in the capture mission.
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My vote's already cast, but I seriously want to know what campaign this is.
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Fighters make headlines, bombers make history.
Saw that movie recently!
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Saw that movie recently!
...it's a movie?
The saying goes back at least to pre-World War 2 and carrier scout-bombers.
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...oh sorry :D, of course it is. I saw it in "Flight of the Intruder" last week or smth in a random channel and I liked it.
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Pretty sure it was Twilight, where you get a few stock Apollos to fly in addition to the custom ships.
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I'd say the Hercules.
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"Pandora's Box" might have been the campaign, I'm not sure. It wasn't a big debate that happened in the mission. It was something like: "The Herc won the Great War!" "No it was the Apollo!"
Then enemies came in and the topic was dropped there.
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Pretty sure it was Twilight, where you get a few stock Apollos to fly in addition to the custom ships.
Twilight definitely has this argument, although it's in a mission briefing, not the mission itself. I don't recall any campaigns that had this discussion in-mission, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
(CT27, could you provide a link to Pandora's Box? It's not on the wiki. Or, perhaps, could you create that wiki page? :))
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Pretty sure it was Twilight, where you get a few stock Apollos to fly in addition to the custom ships.
Twilight definitely has this argument, although it's in a mission briefing, not the mission itself. I don't recall any campaigns that had this discussion in-mission, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
(CT27, could you provide a link to Pandora's Box? It's not on the wiki. Or, perhaps, could you create that wiki page? :))
Again, I'm not sure it was this campaign, but here it is:
http://freespacemods.net/download.php?view.442
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*cough cough* that's an outdated version of pandoras box *cough cough*
btw i think it is in the wiki list of campaigns
anyway, go here for up to date stuff:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=83150.0
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I'm going to say the Herc as well. The Apollo had the numbers and SOME versatility, but it's overall firepower was limited by lack of compatibility and it couldn't take nearly as many hits as a Herc could. The Apollo certainly prevented the war from being LOST, but to win, the Herc was much more vital.
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The Apollo held the GTA together for the war but the Herc won it in terms of fighters.
in Bombers the ursa dealt the deathblow but the Medusa did the heavy lifting
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The Ursa where deployed in small numbers and im sure it where reserved to special ops and/or veteran units.
About the Apollo, im sure there where a giant number of them remaining from the war and assigned to rookie pilots, same for the Athena.
The Medusa, Herc and Valkyrie where probably present since the last year of Vasudan war, just assigned to veterans as production picked up, i think the Ully came too late to do a great impact on the war, the Ursa came in time to destroy the Lucifer (it can be done with medusas btw), but other than that it does not have the numbers.
Apollo and Athena where the bulk of the GTA, thats for sure, followed by the Valkyrie, Medusa and Herc.
There is not much info on what the GTA did with the Athena units, but the Athena is better than the Herc in a few ways, and its the best ship for anti-bomber, anti-cruiser duty. Ill whould have re-classified it as a heavy fighter.
For the PVE the thing is, we dont have much information of the Great War on the Vasudan side other that they where getting their ass kicked by the HOL, with it does not make sence to me, and the Vasudans where primary dependant on fighters/bombers.
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PVF Anubis :yes:
Because they existed in uncountable Numbers and they were simply able to overwhelm the Terran and Shivan fleet with kamikaze attacks. :lol:
I think the Vasudans had should used waves of Anubi to crash into Lucys fighterbay over Vasuda Prime, maybe they were able to stop at least all these scorpions.
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I think the Vasudans had should used waves of Anubi to crash into Lucys fighterbay over Vasuda Prime, maybe they were able to stop at least all these scorpions.
Well that explains why 4 billion innocent vasudans lost their lives in the attack.
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How do you know it would have worked?
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Whatever Alpha One was flying most of the time.
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I vote apollo just because it's my hands down favorite fighter. I was sad it wasn't continued or given a mk2 in FS2. Armament wise it couldn't mount the banshee, but the Prometheus packed a punch, and I've always favored the interceptor as my missile of choice. Apollo suited those needs.
Aesthetically it was also my favorite fighter. I always regarded the Uly as just ugly.
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I vote apollo just because it's my hands down favorite fighter. I was sad it wasn't continued or given a mk2 in FS2. Armament wise it couldn't mount the banshee, but the Prometheus packed a punch, and I've always favored the interceptor as my missile of choice. Apollo suited those needs.
Aesthetically it was also my favorite fighter. I always regarded the Uly as just ugly.
What's your opinion on the Hercules?
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I vote apollo just because it's my hands down favorite fighter. I was sad it wasn't continued or given a mk2 in FS2.
It was. It's called the Perseus.
Have you even tried comparing the Apollo and Perseus tables. Half is literally copy-pasta. Most notably burners and weaponry. And what isn't copy-pasta is improvement upon Apollo stats (most notably shields, health and energy).
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Apollo, most definetly!
btw, was the apollo the ship in the fs 1 intro?
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Certainly was :)
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Apollo
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/GTFApolloAsh.png)
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Am I the only one who caught that the story was trying to portray the Apollo as a giant space box, a death trap for the pilot? I kinda hearken it to the Myrmidon in freespace 2. Yeah it does has medium plating, but the target is so friggen huge and easy to hit that its actually more fragile than a valkyrie/perseus.
First of all, most of the time you are flying it, it is before you obtain shields and shield piercing weapons. This creates the stigma of a low tech, outdated fighter very quickly since by the time you do get shields, you have access to the Valkyrie and other, more advanced fighters (iirc, been a while since i played fs1). Also, unlike the Myrmidon in FS2, the Apollo doesn't even have 6 weapons and its speed is even more pathetic.
I remember in FS1 I flew the Valkyrie every chance I got. It's the fastest ship, and good in a dogfight.
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Am I the only one who caught that the story was trying to portray the Apollo as a giant space box, a death trap for the pilot? I kinda hearken it to the Myrmidon in freespace 2. Yeah it does has medium plating, but the target is so friggen huge and easy to hit that its actually more fragile than a valkyrie/perseus.
First of all, most of the time you are flying it, it is before you obtain shields and shield piercing weapons. This creates the stigma of a low tech, outdated fighter very quickly since by the time you do get shields, you have access to the Valkyrie and other, more advanced fighters (iirc, been a while since i played fs1). Also, unlike the Myrmidon in FS2, the Apollo doesn't even have 6 weapons and its speed is even more pathetic.
I remember in FS1 I flew the Valkyrie every chance I got. It's the fastest ship, and good in a dogfight.
But it's made out of tissue paper and spit
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Avoid the shots and you won't get hit, pilot! :p
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Avoid the shots and you won't get hit, pilot! :p
This is so worth a meme but moderators don't like it when I post pictures so...
...You don't say?!
EDIT: Personally I believe the Hercules actually won the Great War, I mean look at it, 6 gunpoints of absolute death and despair ready to be brought to bear upon its victims.
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Such a sage piece of advice from our wonderfully supportive Command. I was floored when I read that. Why didn't I ever think of avoiding the shots?! I mean, it's like, if you don't get in the way of the shot, you won't get hit!!! I can't believe I never figured that out bef
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I always thought Command was being a dick with that comment.
On topic, I generally feel the Herc was good, but I preferred the agility of the Valkyrie. I never used the Apollo because I felt it was "old." as a kid that matters lol. As for the Uly, I wasn't the best shot and it's high maneuverability, I missed a lot lol.
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I think it's safe to say that every fighter in the game was a Sine Que Non. Remove any one of them and the Shivans win.
Apollo: The ONLY fighter at the start of the war.
Valkyrie: Your one good dogfighter for missions 4-17. Even after you get the Ulysses it's the best option for anti-bomber escort missions like Last Hope.
Hercules: THE versatility ship, capable of killing Cains, Manticores, and anything in between. If a mission involves a wide variety of targets, you fly a Hercules.
Ulysses: King of dogfighters. Without it, you get a domino effect: No ship that can carry the D-Advanced, no captured dragon, no spy mission, poor intelligence, inneffective resistance at Deneb and no scans of the Lucifer to indicate the 5 reactor weakness.
Athena: Your first bomber, and not a bad one. Without it the Taranis could not have been captured. Remains useful later on too- I use it as late as ST:R mission 13.
Medusa: It might be overshadowed by the Ursa, but if we had had to wait till Black Omega for bombing abilities, the Galatea would have died on La Rota Della Fortuna, the Eva would have caused havok at Deneb... suffice to say we would have lost by the time the Ursa was ready.
Ursa: Simple. No Ursa, no Good Luck.
My personal favorite ships:
Hercules: for complicated missions with a wide target variety
Valkyrie: for escort and anti-bomber action
Ursa: For taking out the big bads
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Athena: Your first bomber, and not a bad one. Without it the Taranis could not have been captured. Remains useful later on too- I use it as late as ST:R mission 13.
Oh yeah, it's my favourite for both Good Luck & Last Stand :)
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The stolen Dragon won it in that it was a unique irreplaceable asset.
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Athena: Your first bomber, and not a bad one. Without it the Taranis could not have been captured. Remains useful later on too- I use it as late as ST:R mission 13.
Oh yeah, it's my favourite for both Good Luck & Last Stand :)
Really? I use an Ursa on both of those missions- A target that big needs Harbingers if you ask me. I guess it comes down to playstyle though. The Athena's a good ship for a number of missions, particularly First Strike, Forced Hand... capture missions in general. Works pretty well on The Wait too.
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Well, I figure in both those missions you only really need to disable stuff, either the Lucifers reactors or the Hades beam turrets, so Stilettos work well. And there's lots of enemy fighter craft in both, and the Athena is a good dogfighter. I find it much easier to survive in it than in the Ursa (damn slow bomb truck :))
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I usually stick to the default Herc myself. Unshielded Shivan fighters are incredibly easy to pewpew with four primary shots.
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true, but I also find that Delta wing kinda suck with their Harbinger delivery, and 2 banks of Stilettos lets me take down two reactors by myself :)
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Stilettos work I guess, but I find I can do it faster with Harbingers. I've found that the Athena DOES work pretty well on Good Luck though.
Last Stand is my Number 1 Must Fly Ursa mission, because A. I need harbingers to take down those beams in time to save the Soyakaze B. It takes way to long if I let my wingmen do the heavy bombing themselves C. I want the Hades kill :)
Anyway, that's not to say I don't like the Athena. I just prefer the Ursa when I'm fighting the Big Bad capships.
@Mongoose: I'm a Herc guy too. If I don't know what's coming on a mission, I fly the Herc. The Athena can carry more missiles, but 4 Promethei plus two S-Breakers gives me guaranteed satisfactory hull and shield power against anything Cruiser or smaller, even if I run out of secondaries.
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Last Stand is my Number 1 Must Fly Ursa mission, because A. I need harbingers to take down those beams in time to save the Soyakaze B. It takes way to long if I let my wingmen do the heavy bombing themselves C. I want the Hades kill :)
I should try the Ursa on Last stand then and see how it turns out (although I'm anticipating being shot to pieces by Loki's :))
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At least from my experience on retail FS1, Delta Wing usually managed to get the Lucifer's reactors down to the single digits with one salvo if they didn't destroy them outright, so then I could plink away the rest with whatever I had on my Herc. I don't remember how it usually plays out on the Port though.
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I prefer the Athena over the Apollo or Herc; I've always loved it, despite the fact that it really isn't a bomber. It has all the hallmarks of an older prototype rushed out in haste to fight the Shivans, which explains its lack of actual bombing capability and terrible compatibility. That said, it turned out pretty good all things considered.
Ok, it's only got four guns, and the compatibility's pitiful, but the Avenger is more than sufficient for most uses (I actually greatly prefer it to the Prometheus). It's faster than the Herc, and has more missiles! And it's moderately tanky as well. If you think of it as a heavy assault fighter and missile boat (compare Herc-II), it's actually surprisingly good.
In terms of which one actually won the Great War, tho, I'd have to go with the Herc. Nothing against the Apollo, it's a surprisingly capable medium fighter given it's a tech-generation or so behind, but AI pilots survive longer in Hercs.
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I prefer the Athena over the Apollo or Herc; I've always loved it, despite the fact that it really isn't a bomber. It has all the hallmarks of an older prototype rushed out in haste to fight the Shivans, which explains its lack of actual bombing capability and terrible compatibility. That said, it turned out pretty good all things considered.
Ok, it's only got four guns, and the compatibility's pitiful, but the Avenger is more than sufficient for most uses (I actually greatly prefer it to the Prometheus). It's faster than the Herc, and has more missiles! And it's moderately tanky as well. If you think of it as a heavy assault fighter and missile boat (compare Herc-II), it's actually surprisingly good.
In terms of which one actually won the Great War, tho, I'd have to go with the Herc. Nothing against the Apollo, it's a surprisingly capable medium fighter given it's a tech-generation or so behind, but AI pilots survive longer in Hercs.
I agree about the Avenger. If I have to use one cannon for dogfighting, I'll take the Avenger: Less hull power than the Prometheus, but better shield power, velocity, and fire rate. However, on a Herc I've found that the Prometheus and Banshee or S-Breaker makes for a great combo.
Too bad there are no combos like that in FS2. Banshee-like weapons are unneeded because normal primaries have sufficient shield power. Compared the the S-Breaker, the Circe is a weak let-down. The Circe-Maxim combo isn't that great because you have to switch between them, and neither is effective against fighters on its own.
On the flip side, in FS2 you have the Prom S and Kayser, so maybe you don't need combos that much. Oh well.
EDIT: I do wish there was an Athena Mk. II or something like that in FS2. Like you said, it's a great missile boat if you load it up with Interceptors of Pheonix Vs. Imagine an advanced version with trebuchets or tornadoes!
EDIT OF EDIT: Now that I think of it, the Tauret is almost an Athena II with a Vasudan skin...
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The stolen Dragon won it in that it was a unique irreplaceable asset.
So irreplaceable command wanted it flown into the Lucifer's hangar!
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At least they didn't preemptively ask the Mara riders to fly into a Sathanas' Hangar Bay or to another Knossos, should they find any of those! :P
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I suspect they would have asked had they been in contact. :p