Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Mr. Vega on September 11, 2013, 11:35:31 am
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Y'all may be skeptics about a couple of these titles but I think 2014 is going to be one of the best years for (PC) gaming in a long time, with an outside chance of matching '98 or '99 in quantity of all-time great games:
The Witcher 3
Dragon Age: Inquisition
Dreamfall: Chapters
Project Eternity (the surest thing of them all)
Broken Age
And that's only what we know about. I'd also have loved to have seen Torment: Tides of Numenera and Dishonored 2 (trust me, they're starting on it right now) put up for next year but that's not going to happen.
For reference, 1998 had
Half-Life
Thief: The Dark Project
Starcraft
Xenogears
Freespace 1
Grim Fandango
Fallout 2
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Baldur’s Gate
and 1999 had
Freespace 2
Final Fantasy VIII
Homeworld
System Shock 2
Planescape: Torment
Alpha Centauri
You may begin flaming me for daring to make comparisons to '98 and '99, or that DA3 will actually be a great game worthy of mention with the other four. All I'll say is Bioware does actually listen to criticism.
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Is Star Citizen going to come up in Xmas 2014 or is it only coming up in 2015?
Anyways, I'm open to surprises...
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No FreeSpace 3. It won't be good.
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Is Star Citizen going to come up in Xmas 2014 or is it only coming up in 2015?
They're planning to run the single-player alpha about a year from now, with the persistant universe going beta at the end of 2014 and a full release in 2015. So there's that to look forward to in 2014 as well.
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Dogfight alpha should be January or something. That should be fun.
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Shouldn't X:Rebirth also be out soon?
And Xenonauts?
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No FreeSpace 3. It won't be good.
I concur. The common theme in 98 and 99 is that there was FreeSpace
That aside, I'm more stoked for Tom Clancy. Rainbow Six and The Division? Press X to awesome! Thief is also slated for 2014, and Infamous is always a win in my books
Course, 2013 also wins because GTA V. To me, one game can make a year, and that totally did
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No FreeSpace 3. It will be good.
ftfy
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FFS if you're going to make that sort of "fixed that for you" post at least put in bold the part you changed.
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Mr. Vega, you forgot Wasteland 2
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Also, ArmA III will have a proper release across 2014. Don't get fooled by their claims, it's still in Alpha state (though unlike most games released like that, it's already quite fun).
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No mention for Elite: Dangerous yet? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE8B4KptyVI)
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Also, ArmA III will have a proper release across 2014. Don't get fooled by their claims, it's still in Alpha state (though unlike most games released like that, it's already quite fun).
I might consider ArmA 3 to be a good game if they ever optimize the damn thing. I have to turn every down to the lowest possible to play it with acceptable FPS, and at that level it looks like a game from 2005. It's honestly one of the worst games I've ever played in terms of optimization.
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Thief is also slated for 2014
They'd better not **** it up.
I've been playing the original Thief games and they are just as good today as at release. I see much potential for screwing up a classic and not a great deal for improvement on the original (other than perhaps the enemy AI).
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I didn't realize how good 1998 was, but even 1998 can't hold a candle to 1993:
The 7th Guest
Betrayal at Krondor
Day of the Tentacle
Doom
Iron Helix
Master of Orion
Myst
X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)
And that doesn't include the various sequels such as Space Quest V, Wing Commander: Privateer, etc.
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93 was also the year I got hold of Dune 2. That game was the definition of "Whoah" for me for some years then.
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Thief is also slated for 2014
They'd better not **** it up.
I've been playing the original Thief games and they are just as good today as at release. I see much potential for screwing up a classic and not a great deal for improvement on the original (other than perhaps the enemy AI).
didn't they reject garret's original voice actor because he was too old for mocap
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Also, ArmA III will have a proper release across 2014. Don't get fooled by their claims, it's still in Alpha state (though unlike most games released like that, it's already quite fun).
I might consider ArmA 3 to be a good game if they ever optimize the damn thing. I have to turn every down to the lowest possible to play it with acceptable FPS, and at that level it looks like a game from 2005. It's honestly one of the worst games I've ever played in terms of optimization.
Well, you wouldn't exactly expect optimization from an Alpha, right? Well, I treat it like an Alpha version it is. But there's one nice thing, it allows such setting customization that you can bring it down to a workable level. It does look ugly at that point, but at least you can play. There are games which can't do that. Still, the system requirements are indeed atrocious.
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For reference, 1998 had
Half-Life
Thief: The Dark Project
Starcraft
Xenogears
Freespace 1
Grim Fandango
Fallout 2
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Baldur’s Gate
and 1999 had
Freespace 2
Final Fantasy VIII
Homeworld
System Shock 2
Planescape: Torment
Alpha Centauri
Man, I forgot how awesome those two years were. Golden age indeed.
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I didn't realize how good 1998 was, but even 1998 can't hold a candle to 1993:
The 7th Guest
Betrayal at Krondor
Day of the Tentacle
Doom
Iron Helix
Master of Orion
Myst
X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)
And that doesn't include the various sequels such as Space Quest V, Wing Commander: Privateer, etc.
The only two games on that list that haven't aged hideously are Day of the Tentacle and X-Wing. The same cannot be said for any of the games I listed excepting possibly Half Life and Grim Fandango. Sorry, but my childhood beats your childhood :P
For reference, 1998 had
Half-Life
Thief: The Dark Project
Starcraft
Xenogears
Freespace 1
Grim Fandango
Fallout 2
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Baldur’s Gate
and 1999 had
Freespace 2
Final Fantasy VIII
Homeworld
System Shock 2
Planescape: Torment
Alpha Centauri
Man, I forgot how awesome those two years were. Golden age indeed.
2000 was very good as well - it had Deus Ex, The Longest Journey, Chrono Cross, Sacrifice, Thief II, and BG2 - just not the same number of pantheon titles and genre creators as those two.
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I didn't realize how good 1998 was, but even 1998 can't hold a candle to 1993:
The 7th Guest
Betrayal at Krondor
Day of the Tentacle
Doom
Iron Helix
Master of Orion
Myst
X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)
And that doesn't include the various sequels such as Space Quest V, Wing Commander: Privateer, etc.
The only two games on that list that haven't aged hideously are Day of the Tentacle and X-Wing.
Doesn't look hideously aged to me:
(http://cdn.toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/941991_5jpg.jpeg)
Yes, that's the first Myst. Beautiful game, even by today's standards.
Also, Space Quest V doesn't look too bad today (the first installment, however...) and Privateer, while looking a bit dated, is still a really great game.
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I didn't realize how good 1998 was, but even 1998 can't hold a candle to 1993:
The 7th Guest
Betrayal at Krondor
Day of the Tentacle
Doom
Iron Helix
Master of Orion
Myst
X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)
And that doesn't include the various sequels such as Space Quest V, Wing Commander: Privateer, etc.
The only two games on that list that haven't aged hideously are Day of the Tentacle and X-Wing. The same cannot be said for any of the games I listed excepting possibly Half Life and Grim Fandango. Sorry, but my childhood beats your childhood :P
Sorry, but childhood nostalgia was not the only criteria I used. :p All of the above games established major franchises or advanced the state-of-the-art in a major way. Myst created a whole new type of adventure game and spawned four direct sequels and a number of spinoffs. The 7th Guest and Iron Helix advanced CD-ROM technology, and T7G actually drove sales of CD drives. Doom, which I actually disliked, practically defined the FPS genre for a number of years. I would have included Space Quest V, SimCity 2000, and Mortal Kombat II, except they were all sequels. I probably also should have included Gabriel Knight except I'm not all that familiar with it.
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hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
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Agreed about Half-Life, though mostly because of the "Seinfield is unfunny" effect and it's rather medicore graphics. Still worth sticking around for the story, though.
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hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
Baldur's Gate 2 has not aged horribly.
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hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
You're not playing Torment for the graphics.
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hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
Baldur's Gate 2 has not aged horribly.
So much this.
Agreed about Half-Life, though mostly because of the "Seinfield is unfunny" effect and it's rather medicore graphics. Still worth sticking around for the story, though.
Half-Life may not have aged well, but Black Mesa definitely demonstrates that the core concepts are still excellent.
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Here's an interesting question
SNES games. Aged well or not?
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On average? Not at all. There's still classics galore that warrant a replay (Final Fantasy VI/III! Super Mario Land! Donkey Kong Country! Secret of Mana! Secret of Evermore!) but the vast majority of games will be only interesting for historical reasons now, I would imagine.
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hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
You know what aged horribly ?
DX1.
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Unreal tournament and Quake 3 have, OTOH, aged magnificently!
e: also, Half Life *has* a story? I was bored to death in 1998 or so when I played it and couldn't drive myself to finish it. The first moments of the game really drew me in and made me expect a live and rich environment, and then it was just another Doom / Quake with benefits.
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X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)
...no, I'm pretty sure if you want to trace lineage like that, then that'd make Battlehawks 1942 the ur-FreeSpace. (Because the development of that lead to the development of Their Finest Hour: The Battle of Britain, which lead to the development of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, which is what convinced them they had the chops to make X-Wing.)
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e: also, Half Life *has* a story?
It's not because you failed to see it that it isn't there. Although the real fleshed developpement of the HL universe didn't really start before HL2, there are definitely story elements subtely exposed for eyes to see them.
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Half Life was something of a pioneer in terms of ingame storytelling.
Problem is, HL pioneered so many gameplay conventions that you can't really enjoy it anymore. The bits of it that were good and innovative are found everywhere now, and so HL seems just kinda old by now.
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hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
Baldur's Gate 2 has not aged horribly.
hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
You're not playing Torment for the graphics.
It's not really the graphics but the basic gameplay, they're generally based on a crude and direct translation of tabletop mechanics, an approach which just doesn't work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSBn77_h_6Q) due to the basic differences in the position of humans in the system.
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I didn't realize how good 1998 was, but even 1998 can't hold a candle to 1993:
The 7th Guest
Betrayal at Krondor
Day of the Tentacle
Doom
Iron Helix
Master of Orion
Myst
X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)
And that doesn't include the various sequels such as Space Quest V, Wing Commander: Privateer, etc.
The only two games on that list that haven't aged hideously are Day of the Tentacle and X-Wing.
If we're judging excitement about a year in video gaming doesn't it make sense judge each year relative to themselves first? Otherwise every year is going to be OMG BEST YEAR by virtue of games just getting old.
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Not necessarily. Homeworld and Freespace haven't really aged badly, although that might just be because of the genres sitting in stasis for a decade.
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On average? Not at all. There's still classics galore that warrant a replay (Final Fantasy VI/III! Super Mario Land! Donkey Kong Country! Secret of Mana! Secret of Evermore!) but the vast majority of games will be only interesting for historical reasons now, I would imagine.
How can you mention SNES games but forget Chrono Trigger? Just because it got ported to later platforms, or what?
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Because it's one of those games that I always hear amazing things about, but haven't played or watched being played personally.
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Because it's one of those games that I always hear amazing things about, but haven't played or watched being played personally.
Same here.
It's just not available on anything I have, but it keeps popping up year after year in places, and nobody ever has anything but glowing praise for it.
So it's something that I would normally watch someone let's play, but instead I leave it alone on the off chance I'll ever get a chance to get it so it doesn't get spoiled. So I know basically nothing about it except everyone thinks it's amazing.
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Because it's one of those games that I always hear amazing things about, but haven't played or watched being played personally.
You really should at some point. I'm not a huge fan of RPGs in general, to say nothing of the J-variety, but I loved the hell out of it. Actually I think playing it first really spoiled Final Fantasy VI for me, because it feels really plodding in comparison.
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And then there's Tales of Phantasia and Front Mission, which didn't see English releases during the SNES era, but both kicked off excellent franchises (and are still very good games in their own right, if you can find a translated ROM, or just get one of the later ports).
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Seiken Densetsu 3, anyone? One of my favourite RPGs from the age of the SNES, and IMO deserves more love. The predecessor Secret of Mana was pretty damn good as well.
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It's not really the graphics but the basic gameplay, they're generally based on a crude and direct translation of tabletop mechanics, an approach which just doesn't work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSBn77_h_6Q) due to the basic differences in the position of humans in the system.
Are you seriously saying as a 'fact' that the basic gameplay of games like baldur's gate/icewind dale/fallout doesn't work? I sure hope you aren't (that im somehow misreading your post), cause that would be... how to put this nicely... retarded.
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hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
Baldur's Gate 2 has not aged horribly.
hate to break it to you man but half-life and every isometric RPG ever have aged horribly
You're not playing Torment for the graphics.
It's not really the graphics but the basic gameplay, they're generally based on a crude and direct translation of tabletop mechanics, an approach which just doesn't work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSBn77_h_6Q) due to the basic differences in the position of humans in the system.
The gameplay actually holds up perfectly well, but you're not playing Torment for the combat either. You know damn well why Torment was and always will be a great game. Same goes for Xenogears.
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I didn't realize how good 1998 was, but even 1998 can't hold a candle to 1993:
The 7th Guest
Betrayal at Krondor
Day of the Tentacle
Doom
Iron Helix
Master of Orion
Myst
X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)
And that doesn't include the various sequels such as Space Quest V, Wing Commander: Privateer, etc.
The only two games on that list that haven't aged hideously are Day of the Tentacle and X-Wing. The same cannot be said for any of the games I listed excepting possibly Half Life and Grim Fandango. Sorry, but my childhood beats your childhood :P
Sorry, but childhood nostalgia was not the only criteria I used. :p All of the above games established major franchises or advanced the state-of-the-art in a major way.
You get points for innovation but I care much more about raw quality. So again, IMO, by today's standards, only X-Wing and Day of the Tentacle hold up.
If you're curious I consider Metroid to be the oldest game that's any good.
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Care to explain why you omitted Myst again? Didn't play it, or what? :)
The original is still really pretty (if not to the point of the later ones), and there's a 3D remake (RealMyst) that looks even better.
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X-Wing (the ur-FreeSpace)
...no, I'm pretty sure if you want to trace lineage like that, then that'd make Battlehawks 1942 the ur-FreeSpace. (Because the development of that lead to the development of Their Finest Hour: The Battle of Britain, which lead to the development of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, which is what convinced them they had the chops to make X-Wing.)
Well, no, if you want to go back further than X-Wing, Wing Commander is the ur-ur-FreeSpace. Chris Roberts actually approached Lucasfilm to make a game based on Star Wars, but they wouldn't give him the license, so he came up with his own universe. Flight sims and space sims are rather distinct.
You get points for innovation but I care much more about raw quality. So again, IMO, by today's standards, only X-Wing and Day of the Tentacle hold up.
Pbhh. If you care about raw quality, go start up Betrayal at Krondor this minute. You can get it for $5.99 at GOG (http://www.gog.com/game/betrayal_at_krondor). It's like playing a novel. An exceptionally good sword-and-sorcery novel.
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Flight sims and space sims are rather distinct.
Except in this case they're not. As I said, and as you apparently ignored, it was the successful creation of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe that lead directly to the creation of X-Wing. There are two reasons; the first was that SWOTL reached a wide enough audience, and the second was the successful implementation of the multiple-turret many-overlapping-field-of-fire B-17 in a balanced way.
The engines actually share more than a few similarities, including a particular maneuver that the AI doesn't know how to respond to and will lock up when you perform.
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I was being slightly facetious regarding Half Life's "lack" of a story, and I agree with The_E's assessment of its qualities.... I just didn't like the story and for the most 99% of the game's time, there is little story to contend with. Mostly it's a Quake 2 with more brains and better puzzles.
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We'll it would be seeing as it's quake 2 based.
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No it wasn't. It was developed with Quake I's engine and it was intended to be released in direct competition with Q2 (before the delays kept that objective to come to reality). Its first ... 3/5 hours or so were brilliant. Just pure brilliancy. Then it kinda peaks and goes downhill pretty fast. It goes "huh this is like Quake2 now" to "huh this is like Duke Nukem now" to "Huh this is like Super Mario now". Its immersive atmosphere just goes away and when we reach Xen I just stopped caring at all about it (I think I never went through any Xen level).
(Look at me now, dissing one of the most revolutionary games ever made! Yeah, I know it sounds arrogant on my part, and it probably is! I just compare it with, say, MDK2, which never gets boring or un-immersive, never "peaks" the same way and it always gets more and more interesting until the end).
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I used to use quake two's pak editing tools and rad variant light compilers to make my worldcraft levels in halflife :wtf:
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Seiken Densetsu 3, anyone? One of my favourite RPGs from the age of the SNES, and IMO deserves more love. The predecessor Secret of Mana was pretty damn good as well.
Woot! And Earthbound too, even though the graphics really show their age, the game is still awesome.
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Seiken Densetsu 3, anyone? One of my favourite RPGs from the age of the SNES, and IMO deserves more love. The predecessor Secret of Mana was pretty damn good as well.
Woot! And Earthbound too, even though the graphics really show their age, the game is still awesome.
I must be one of those people who don't find older graphics offensive....
Anywho.
Mother 2 was recently released on the WiiStore, for those who don't have a copy.
These are also relevant to how awesome it is:
http://earthbound.nintendo.com/message/
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/07/marcus-lindblom-earthbound/all/
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It's not really the graphics but the basic gameplay, they're generally based on a crude and direct translation of tabletop mechanics, an approach which just doesn't work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSBn77_h_6Q) due to the basic differences in the position of humans in the system.
Are you seriously saying as a 'fact' that the basic gameplay of games like baldur's gate/icewind dale/fallout doesn't work? I sure hope you aren't (that im somehow misreading your post), cause that would be... how to put this nicely... retarded.
Well yes, because in tabletop RPGs you run through all the numbers yourself and the process of calculation is engaging all by itself; in a computer RPG you're just watching as a bunch of stats get munched through an automated calculator and the numbers themselves aren't very interesting.
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I love X-wing, but I just got it working on my computer a month or so ago and I can't honestly say it holds up very well. There is just way too much waiting for something to happen/crawling towards distant targets. I don't mind slow paced works of art, but sitting around watching a number tick down isn't my ideal form of gameplay.
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This year we have Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy XIV, X: Rebirth, Beyond: Two Souls, StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm, ARMA 3 and Dota 2.
In 2014 I'm looking forward to WildStar, Dreamfall Chapters, Planetary Annihilation, The Long Dark, Swords of Edo, Phantasy Star Nova, Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts III, Project Eternity, DayZ, Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls and Super Smash Bros. 4.
Sounds like a good year indeed.
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Flight sims and space sims are rather distinct.
Except in this case they're not. As I said, and as you apparently ignored, it was the successful creation of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe that lead directly to the creation of X-Wing. There are two reasons; the first was that SWOTL reached a wide enough audience, and the second was the successful implementation of the multiple-turret many-overlapping-field-of-fire B-17 in a balanced way.
Very well, if they served as a ramp-up to X-Wing, either in technical implementation or marketing, then that's fine. But you in turn apparently ignored my counter-argument in favor of Wing Commander.
The engines actually share more than a few similarities, including a particular maneuver that the AI doesn't know how to respond to and will lock up when you perform.
Interesting. Which maneuver is that?
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I used to try to hide by capital ships falcon pre-bespin style.
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Well yes, because in tabletop RPGs you run through all the numbers yourself and the process of calculation is engaging all by itself; in a computer RPG you're just watching as a bunch of stats get munched through an automated calculator and the numbers themselves aren't very interesting.
Okay so in your opinion the gameplay 'doesn't work'/isn't fun because you want to calculate THAC0 yourself instead of having the pc do it for you.
Rrrright o.
Well don't be suprised if you'll find the very vast majority of players disagree with you there!
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I don't know, I find the process of computing all the various factors that go into an attack roll in D20 (Even Pathfinder's streamlined version of it) to be easily the worst part of a combat round. As thrilling as the tactical decisions and the ultimate resolution of your actions are, the computations necessary (what with all the various effects that could be in place at any given time) are just tedious.
As such, games like NWN or KOTOR allow me to make the decisions I want to make without having to worry about summing it all up, which I think is great.
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Right, but they're still automating a system of game mechanics designed to be manually computed by humans. Newer games generally use mechanics designed from scratch to be calculated without human oversight, which is why older, tabletop-based RPGs are showing their age. That was my point.
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Right, but they're still automating a system of game mechanics designed to be manually computed by humans. Newer games generally use mechanics designed from scratch to be calculated without human oversight, which is why older, tabletop-based RPGs are showing their age.
Ironically this sounds more like an argument for a Rolemaster conversion than it does an argument against a D&D conversion. (Last line omitted because it following hasn't been established.)
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Right, but they're still automating a system of game mechanics designed to be manually computed by humans. Newer games generally use mechanics designed from scratch to be calculated without human oversight, which is why older, tabletop-based RPGs are showing their age. That was my point.
I can't wrap my head around your argument. It makes zero sense to me. (I also feel like you are sorta backpedalling here but hey.)
Let's take Baldurs Gate for example. It's gameplay based on 2nd edition D&D, a ruleset notorious for its bookkeeping requirements. (Case in point, THAC0, a horrible ineffective method to determine if you hit something or not)
BG is heralded by many as one of the best RPG's of all times. What has truly aged badly about this game? Presentation&Graphics? Definitely. The pathfinding of your party is clunky and you'll spend quite a bit of time waiting before your party has gathered before you are allowed to venture forth. The character sprites are not exactly abudantly animated or overly detailed either.
But gameplay? Not at all. The spells and counter spells have a nice depth and complexity to them. You can complete the game solo if you like the challenge instead of with a party. Every class is viable with their own strengths and weaknesses (some classes can get slightly out of control, but overall the balance is pretty good). The vast majority of what makes 2nd edition so cumbersome is handled by the game behind the scenes. It works excellently and its one of the reasons why the game is so good. Age has absolutely no influence on this, its a timeless classic. One I've already replayed twice.
Now Dragon Age origins:
Another excellent game, much more recent and big budget and it really shows in the presentation. But as much as I enjoyed the game, I wasn't feeling really engaged by the gameplay mechanics itself. I found myself repeating a certain pattern for each fight (it involved a lot of AOE spells) and I really felt restricted in my party choice because magic (AOE) was so needed for each fight. Couldn't leave the camp with at least one spellcaster! I really liked the game but it is unlikely that I'll be replaying the game any time soon.
Now by your 'logic', Dragon age will somehow age more gracefully because the damage numbers behind the scenes are calculated by a system that was 'designed from scratch to be calculated without human oversight'. How does this even make sense? You are literally the first person I've ever heard make such a wierd statement.
It's not the actual gameplay, not the content, not the graphics, ui or presentation. No, it's because the damage calculations done by the engine are based on a tabletop ruleset. :wtf:
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comparing two specific examples does not disprove the general point
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There is no point to disprove. Your 'point' is nothing more than your opinion, it is not a widely accepted fact.
It doesn't even make sense to begin with so yeah. :blah:
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comparing two specific examples does not disprove the general point
No, it doesn't, but since the "general point" has never been proven...
Can you provide any counter examples? Because Baldur's Gate 2 seems to have held up extremely well, in my opinion.
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Anyone consider that if a game is fun, it's a game that has stood the test of time?
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Right, but they're still automating a system of game mechanics designed to be manually computed by humans. Newer games generally use mechanics designed from scratch to be calculated without human oversight, which is why older, tabletop-based RPGs are showing their age. That was my point.
I think that what's missing in this point (and I agree with everyone who's argued against you in it) is the simple fact that "rolling dices" is just a necessity that board games have of introducing a randomizer in the game to make it more interesting, risky and surprising. There's nothing in "rolling dices" that is gameplayworthy except for that randomness in the first place. If computers do that for you, the "dice" is obviously obsolete. For instance, imagine these devs were so mesmerized about dices as you apparently are, they could well make you roll a virtual dice in front of the event each time it would be required.
But apparently, this detail was rarely if ever introduced at any RPG or any other game (I do remember playing virtual monopoly once where this practice existed). The reason is that this randomization is a technical requirement, not a part of the gameplay, of the fun. The fun is in the actual rational (or not) choices that the players make in the game.
Scratch all that, I missed your point completely. I now understand what you are saying. Old "tabletop games" are using the same maths and algorithms that actual tabletops used, in a kitsch obsolete manner. IDK if this issue is a real sore to the experience, but I now understand the point.
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Old "tabletop games" are using the same maths and algorithms that actual tabletops used, in a kitsch obsolete manner. IDK if this issue is a real sore to the experience, but I now understand the point.
That's not an argument, though, that's a statement. It's not even a good statement of fact, because it's wrapped in an opinion.
What's the desired outcome here? Is Phantom Hoover arguing that a mechanized tabletop system is too streamlined or not streamlined enough? Is the point that a computer can include a more complex and well-designed granular rules system because it automates this sort of thing? Is the point that this sort of randomization is bad for RPGs? What sort of tabletop system is even being discussed, are we talking about White Wolf "those dice get in the way of my LARP, man!" or something rules-heavy and roll-heavy like Rolemaster?
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All I'm saying is that they're two different kinds of game and so have two different sets of requirements; and so using tabletop mechanics in a computer game is more obviously dated (because using proven techniques from an old medium in a new one is a natural starting point) than using 'computerised' mechanics.
(N.B. I may have implicitly or explicitly made stronger statements earlier in this thread; this was mostly due to inarticulacy on my part.)
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World of Warships. 'Nuff said. At least for me.
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World of Warships. 'Nuff said. At least for me.
It's out? How is it?
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Not yet, silly. ;7 but it will be out in 2014. :nod:
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Whoops, thought this was "What are you playing now"
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That's ok. I take it you're interested?
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Dogfight alpha should be January or something. That should be fun.
I can't find anything about this game. Well, I found a lot of games, but none coming out in 2014. Do you have a link for more info?
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he means the star citizen dogfight alpha
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Oh, duh! ;7 Thanks!!
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While I'm not sure when it's out, Homeworld: Shipbreakers (Formally Hardware: Shipbreakers) was looking like a decent game.
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It's out?
People are getting antsy because alpha's supposed to drop soon, but...
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While I'm not sure when it's out, Homeworld: Shipbreakers (Formally Hardware: Shipbreakers) was looking like a decent game.
This.
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It'll be interesting to see how they convert story elements from a 3D RTS to what is essentially a ground-based equivalent. Homeworld was one of those series you throw in with FreeSpace and System Shock, you just accept there won't be a sequel and enjoy what the community's made of it (FreeSpace being the frontrunner at that :cool:). Blackbird getting the Homeworld license genuinely gives me faith in humanity.