Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: mjn.mixael on December 07, 2013, 10:54:45 am

Title: Commandline Pruning
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 07, 2013, 10:54:45 am
Looking over the commandline, I noticed a few options that would benefit from a little pruning. Then AdmiralNelson mentioned how one of them interfered with UW. So, that was enough of a reminder for me to make this post.

There may be a few more, but I was wondering what people thought of moving these to a table option instead of the commandline.

-rearm_timer
-dualscanlines
-targetinfo
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Dragon on December 07, 2013, 11:03:45 am
They'd fit better into a table, allright. That's mostly visual stuff, not really important, though I think I'd actually miss having a rearm timer on by default. Perhaps a table override instead?
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Kopachris on December 07, 2013, 11:14:24 am
Existing table or new table?  Can we have a mod-global "options.tbl" and player-specific "<callsign>-opt.tbm" tables?
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Admiral Nelson on December 07, 2013, 11:28:06 am
Shouldn't at least some of these be hud-gauges options?  The -targetinfo one creates issues for UW, at least.  I want to be able to hide that targetinfo from the player.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Dragon on December 07, 2013, 02:30:45 pm
I imagine that's the table he had in mind. It's a logical place to put such stuff into. I agree, there should be Hud_gauges.tbl overrides.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Echelon9 on December 07, 2013, 03:17:24 pm
Existing table or new table?  Can we have a mod-global "options.tbl" and player-specific "<callsign>-opt.tbm" tables?

I don't think we should require individual users/callsigns from having to edit tables to change their settings. Many users do not even know tables exists -- they set their chosen settings through the launcher or in game options.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: jr2 on December 07, 2013, 11:47:23 pm
Put the options in a table then have the launcher view / edit that table based on user selection.  Then fsopen reads the table file on launch.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: zookeeper on December 08, 2013, 03:18:36 am
Is there some reason for -missile_lighting ("Apply lighting to missiles") to exist, besides truly marginal performance gains? If not, then it seems like unnecessary clutter, especially considering that modders can and should use the "apply no light" weapon flag anyway, if they want their missiles to not be lit.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Kolgena on December 08, 2013, 12:37:11 pm
Lighting settings would be nice if they were mod specific. We have campaigns ranging from Windmills to BP which don't necessarily look right without tweaked lighting on a per-mod basis.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on December 08, 2013, 02:45:51 pm
Lighting settings would be nice if they were mod specific. We have campaigns ranging from Windmills to BP which don't necessarily look right without tweaked lighting on a per-mod basis.
You can make them mod-specific in wxLauncher by just making a separate profile for each mod.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 10, 2013, 02:28:03 pm
My question, at this point, is if anyone is actually interested in pursuing making this change.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 05, 2014, 05:18:22 pm
 :bump:

Just cause I think this is worth it.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: General Battuta on January 05, 2014, 05:22:34 pm
I stoop to concur. Do you get it. It's a pun

e: also would love the ability to move 'use models for ship/weapon selection' to a table force
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 05, 2014, 05:38:38 pm
e: also would love the ability to move 'use models for ship/weapon selection' to a table force

Indeed, though I figured out a way to "force" it for BtA... don't remember how I did it, though. It was something along the lines of using a table entry for every ship and weapon to remove any icons that were loaded forcing FSO to use models for the selection screen as a backup.

Edit:

Remove these in ships.tbl entries
Code: [Select]
$Ship_Icon:
$Ship_Anim:
$Ship_Overhead:

Add these in weapons.tbl entries
Code: [Select]
$Icon: none
$Anim: none
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Mongoose on January 05, 2014, 07:49:41 pm
Honestly I think these types of options are the things that could properly belong in that oft-proposed in-game "advanced" settings menu.  I mean I like having stuff like the dual lines and extra target info on, but as an end-user I don't really want to have to go faffing about with table files just to get them turned on when I so choose.  And I'm part of the relatively-small percent who would actually know how to do that...your average newbie wouldn't have any hope at all.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 05, 2014, 08:01:13 pm
There is not doubt this would step into mod dev rights vs player rights (or whatever you want to call it) and I'm not sure what the answer is. However, I don't think the in-game menu is an option, cause honestly, who knows if we'll ever have it. I'm betting not for now. If the menu became a reality, we could have them moved again. But the commandline is not really a place for these anymore.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: jr2 on January 05, 2014, 11:50:17 pm
Honestly I think these types of options are the things that could properly belong in that oft-proposed in-game "advanced" settings menu.  I mean I like having stuff like the dual lines and extra target info on, but as an end-user I don't really want to have to go faffing about with table files just to get them turned on when I so choose.  And I'm part of the relatively-small percent who would actually know how to do that...your average newbie wouldn't have any hope at all.

QFT & Ditto...  At least if I ever get back to playing.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Macfie on January 06, 2014, 08:50:58 am
What about turning them on by default and have a disable option in the launcher the way we do with some of the visual stuff.  That way they would only be in the command line if you turn them off.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 06, 2014, 10:15:24 am
The defeats the whole purpose of pruning the commandline, though. The whole point is to clean out flags that don't really belong there... for example, dual scan lines. I love me some dual scan lines, but we are talking about a single line moving across a small area of the HUD... a whole commandline for that?
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Goober5000 on January 06, 2014, 10:28:04 am
Ideally, as you said, the best place to put such things as dual scan lines is an in-game options screen.  But since we don't have that, the next best place is the command line.  Neither tables nor registry settings are appropriate, and no other option is practical.

But we can't simply remove working command-line features if no replacement option exists.

EDIT: This post assumes dualscanlines is a user-preference option, as elaborated in later posts
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: zookeeper on January 06, 2014, 12:47:17 pm
Seriously, having either a command-line argument or an in-game options item for something like dual scanlines is just plain laughable. Something like that belongs in a table or nowhere at all.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Goober5000 on January 06, 2014, 01:48:23 pm
If you consider it a mod option, sure.  But some people consider it a user preference option.

EDIT: It would be worth taking a poll on how many people consider it one versus the other.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 06, 2014, 01:53:16 pm
There are many things one can do with that targeting box -- specify a shader, or display wireframe vs. modelled, etc.  It is odd to say the least, that dual scanning lines is a command line option whilst none of the others are.  One might 'prefer' wireframes, or a scanlines shader in there too, but these can only be done through table edits.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: z64555 on January 06, 2014, 02:31:38 pm
Queue Menu UI Overhaul!  ;7
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: zookeeper on January 06, 2014, 03:03:17 pm
If you consider it a mod option, sure.  But some people consider it a user preference option.

Without consideration either way, really. It's kinda on the same laughableness level as including an option in Super Mario Bros for whether fireballs should rotate clockwise or counterclockwise, because you know some people really might prefer it the other way. There's an infinite number of small details like that that could have a user-visible option, and the (good) reason they don't all have one is not just that no one did it.

That said, I'm not really against the existence of any such option no matter how meaningless, only that they should be tucked away somewhere far enough. An equivalent of an about:config or something. An option alongside with all the "meaningful" ones, implying that it's worth the average user's time to think about? Not such a good idea.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Macfie on January 06, 2014, 03:48:56 pm
You could actually cleanup a lot of the stuff in the command line by getting rid of the developmental and troubleshooting section and put that in a table.  Those that normally use it would be well able to modify a table to use it.  That would get rid of about 37 items.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Mongoose on January 06, 2014, 04:53:28 pm
Seriously, having either a command-line argument or an in-game options item for something like dual scanlines is just plain laughable. Something like that belongs in a table or nowhere at all.
I don't know that I agree myself.  I play a lot of Team Fortress 2, and as Valve has tweaked its menu layout over the years, they've wound up with a specific advanced options menu that covers a bunch of minor UI elements that are essentially equivalent to the features we're talking about here.  (Things like seeing damage numbers appear over the heads of people you're shooting, or a little indicator over your healing target when you play as the Medic, to give a few examples.)  They don't affect gameplay in any significant way, but they're easily accessible to anyone to provide some level of customization over the basic game interface.  Granted the specific example of dual scanlines is something that I've always seen as kind of silly, since it's hard to picture anyone out there saying "RAWR I WANT ONLY ONE ALWAYS AND 4EVAR," but I do think user control over this general class of features has a valid place.

Aet's not forget that if we go all the way back to retail, the game allows for full control over which HUD elements display, and when they appear.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Dragon on January 06, 2014, 05:23:24 pm
Maybe the HUD customization menu could be expanded to include those options? I don't think it was touched since retail, it doesn't seem to display custom HUD graphics and nor any new additions.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Mongoose on January 06, 2014, 07:10:08 pm
If it hasn't been touched for that long, I shudder to think what that tentacle of Codethulhu looks like. :p

But yeah, in a perfect world, that'd be an ideal place for most of these options, since they're pretty much all HUD-related.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Dragon on January 06, 2014, 08:01:07 pm
Chances are, it's still original :v: code. As such, it shouldn't be too bad, at least compared to parts everyone had dabbled with at some point...
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: General Battuta on January 06, 2014, 10:59:38 pm
Chances are, it's still original :v: code. As such, it shouldn't be too bad, at least compared to parts everyone had dabbled with at some point...

Original V code is some of the worst.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Goober5000 on January 06, 2014, 11:13:22 pm
Also some of the best.  It depends on where you look.
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: General Battuta on January 06, 2014, 11:22:59 pm
Post the nebula sauce Goob
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Goober5000 on January 07, 2014, 08:49:17 am
Mmm, nebula wing sauce (http://pastebin.com/0xQh5L8A)
Title: Re: Commandline Pruning
Post by: Mongoose on January 07, 2014, 01:08:05 pm
That just screams, "It's crunch time and none of the team have slept for three days and teehee I'm punchy as hell." :D