Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Hades on January 12, 2014, 09:26:42 am

Title: GTC Fenris
Post by: Hades on January 12, 2014, 09:26:42 am
What? I can't leave this bit half undone (except for literally everything I do)


Not got the front on yet but I think it's a good effort for around a combined 2-3 hours so far.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: An4ximandros on January 12, 2014, 09:58:34 am
Oh my god. Are you really making separate models for the Levi-Fenri ? Because that is awesome.

Slightly off-topic: Will "Ship thing" ever get further updates? Cuz I love that thing. It looks like a baby Battlestar without launch pods. :D
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 12, 2014, 10:14:13 am
I endorse this endeavour.... I claim review rights.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 12, 2014, 10:45:43 am
Looking great. Looks like a somewhat wrinkly, crotchety older brother of the Leviathan.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Col.Hornet on January 12, 2014, 11:23:16 am
That radar dish :D... my fav part of the model so far.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: SypheDMar on January 12, 2014, 01:40:36 pm
I want this thing different enough so that the difference is not merely the glowmaps, please!

Keep it up
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Hades on January 13, 2014, 12:41:38 am
New update. With the front and missile launcher updated, you should all see an idea of how it's meant to be different.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 13, 2014, 03:08:38 am
Leg, end......wait for it.....
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Mobius on January 13, 2014, 10:28:49 am
:yes:

One question, though: the Leviathan is bigger, are you sure this won't break anything?
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 13, 2014, 11:25:01 am
...Ary!!!
 :pimp:
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Kolgena on January 13, 2014, 04:02:27 pm
:yes:

One question, though: the Leviathan is bigger, are you sure this won't break anything?


Even from an aesthetics/lore standpoint, having leviathans equally sized as fenrises suggests that the former really is a retrofit, where they took a fenris and slapped some mods on it. If the models are completely different sizes, the tech description stops making sense.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Luis Dias on January 13, 2014, 04:11:33 pm
It's also a bit jarring that they made two almost lookalikes except 5% bigger, and also all the details are different. It's as if one of them is like the other but with a cape on top.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Skarab on January 13, 2014, 04:20:48 pm
To me the Levi looks like a heavily modified version of the Fenris.  That makes more sense to me than the current implementation.  The Levi just looks meatier than the Fenris, as I think it should. Provided, of course, that it doesn't break anything.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: BritishShivans on January 13, 2014, 04:22:55 pm
Yeah, it's a bit odd at the moment. I figure having the Leviathan slightly bigger in profile makes a degree of sense - it's got armor plating slapped all over it, after all, but the difference should really just be a slightly bulkier profile, rather than the Leviathan being bigger in any way.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Hades on January 13, 2014, 05:50:29 pm
:yes:

One question, though: the Leviathan is bigger, are you sure this won't break anything?


Even from an aesthetics/lore standpoint, having leviathans equally sized as fenrises suggests that the former really is a retrofit, where they took a fenris and slapped some mods on it. If the models are completely different sizes, the tech description stops making sense.
"After the Vasudans began making incursions into GTA space, command decided that it needed a new defensive cruiser. Changes to the Fenris led to the GTC Leviathan line of cruisers, produced as mobile defense battleships. Their speed and maneuverability were greatly reduced in tradeoff for more powerful weapons and a stronger hull. Production was discontinued when the GTA thought they would win the Vasudan war after the Battle of Gulnara, and then the production was started up again after the defeat at the Talania system. Because of the on-again off-again nature of this vessel's production, almost all of the Leviathan Cruisers have different armaments, but all have consistent hulls and speeds."
"Early in the Great War, Han-Ronald engineers designed and built the Leviathan class of cruisers. The Leviathan is much heavier armed and armored than the Fenris, but also much slower and less maneuverable. Leviathan cruisers are used to guard critical installations, such as permanent jump nodes, deep-space factories, and gas-mining operations, where firepower is king and speed is of little importance. They're also well-suited to escorting slow-moving freighters or transports. The Fenris is good for fast-moving operations, but when you need some muscle, call in a Leviathan."

Neither game's tech description says retrofit or even suggests it. They sound more like they looked at the Fenris, went "Hm, we need some changes" and thus was born the Leviathan. Plus, you don't just stuff armor plating and a few guns on a ship and give it a new designation entirely (nor is that feasible if the internal volume is as well utilized in the Fenris as it probably ought to be). The idea is, to fit what the fit into the Fenris, they had to optimize some internal space and generally take structure shortcuts. The Leviathan, however, needed expanded volume to fit in the fluff's "more powerful weapons" (which likely would need stronger powersupply(s), but more internal volume mainly, as well as storage if they were kinetic-based). Plus, bits of the Leviathan are more angled, which means bits of internal volume that gets displaced by that needs to be moved elsewhere (the whole angled bit is more a callback to early tank design).

In general, the idea sort of paralleled the way the IS-4 upgrade to the IS-2 played out: The IS-4 was meant to be an upgrade based off of the IS-2 chassis that increased armor.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/Iosif_Stalin_IS-2_Kyiv_1.jpg)
^ IS-2
(http://pictar.ru/data/media/54/IS-4.jpg)
^IS-4

So, while the IS-4 is similar, it's larger, and has some glaring differences as well.

That's just one example. There's plenty of other examples of things radically changing when trying to upgrade or 'change' something due to engineering or design constraints in aviation and the navy.

That doesn't necessarily mean I won't change it though, I'm entirely open to debate.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Luis Dias on January 13, 2014, 06:03:37 pm
these are very minor concerns imo, hades. Although i maintain sort of my viewpoint I do think they are awesome and my level of complaint when I see those inside FS2 will be zero minus a few million of hurras (that go to the other side coz minus minus is plus... ahhh forget it)
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: BritishShivans on January 13, 2014, 06:03:52 pm
That also makes a lot of sense. Although where does that "Gulnara" system come from? I've never seen that before in the FS1 techroom.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Nyctaeus on January 13, 2014, 06:11:06 pm
This one is actually pretty good and follows the original quite accurately. With a good potential in actual model and blessing from the Oddgrim in the future, I think this is a good opportunity to post some constructive criticism.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2gvkgwp.jpg)
The green-marked wall has a bad angle, and it's part of the "roof" of the ship, not the side walls. I marked how I imagined these lines via red lines. Of course it doesn't show how exactly they should be modelled, but pointing how the walls should go. While in Levy this wall is separated from the side walls, here it's quite noticable and it affects original lines of the ship.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Kolgena on January 13, 2014, 07:18:23 pm
... lol Hades. I was actually going to post about tanks as a parallel to how I thought the Fenris and Leviathan should look relative to one another, but realized my argument was moot because I was looking at the m48 vs the m60 tanks, which don't really look all that similar to each other. However, they are the same size :P

But you're right. I went on the wiki, and neither tech description describes them as refits. I dunno why I thought that.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Hades on January 14, 2014, 01:13:39 am
This one is actually pretty good and follows the original quite accurately. With a good potential in actual model and blessing from the Oddgrim in the future, I think this is a good opportunity to post some constructive criticism.
-snip-
The green-marked wall has a bad angle, and it's part of the "roof" of the ship, not the side walls. I marked how I imagined these lines via red lines. Of course it doesn't show how exactly they should be modelled, but pointing how the walls should go. While in Levy this wall is separated from the side walls, here it's quite noticable and it affects original lines of the ship.
Please do this more instead of going "It's not retail!" It's really, really helpful and I improved the Fenris with it. Now, not only does the changed side wall seperate it from the Leviathan (which is meant to be quite different from the retail model), it looks a bit more interesting. Thank you. (p3d updated)

... lol Hades. I was actually going to post about tanks as a parallel to how I thought the Fenris and Leviathan should look relative to one another, but realized my argument was moot because I was looking at the m48 vs the m60 tanks, which don't really look all that similar to each other. However, they are the same size :P

But you're right. I went on the wiki, and neither tech description describes them as refits. I dunno why I thought that.
Should have gone with the M4 Sherman and it's tons of variants, though it'd work both for and against both arguments due to them all sharing a same common designation, the M4 Sherman. The Churchill series of infantry tanks come to mind as well. :P

Though, the M60 used the M48 turret (M60A1 and later did not) and the main differences would be the frontal armor shape, 105mm gun (M48 had a 90), and two less support rollers per side.

And it's an easy mistake to make when you haven't really looked at the tech descriptions in a while. Quick things that came to mind when I was trying to recall them was "Fenris, then Leviathan, more armor" and I actually thought that you were right about them being a retrofit before I took a look at it in the wiki.

That also makes a lot of sense. Although where does that "Gulnara" system come from? I've never seen that before in the FS1 techroom.
Wiki says that's where it's mainly mentioned and that it's possibly a planetary body in Antares. Could just be a named location of space or the name of a fortress the battle took place around, too.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Rheyah on January 14, 2014, 08:54:01 am
I personally think the Fenris and Leviathan are two of the most iconic looking ships in Freespace and this is a wonderful reimagining of them.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 14, 2014, 09:45:45 pm
Things like the "Gulnara" system and the way "the galaxy" is described in some mission briefings and techroom entries are what made me hypothesize that the FreeSpace universe was originally much larger and more expansive and Volition drastically scaled it back midway (or later) through development to tell a more intimate story that would be more feasible to portray with 1998 hardware.

Also I really like the way this Fenris came out. It has the angular, straight-edge look I've always associated with FS1 Terran ships while still looking modern.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Hades on January 17, 2014, 09:06:21 am

The model is pretty much finished here, I think (maybe +/- a few minor things). I'll start uvmapping it in a couple of days if no one has any criticisms or such about it or bits of it.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Luis Dias on January 17, 2014, 10:07:00 am
cables too think THICK.

/thread
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Dragon on January 17, 2014, 10:15:50 am
Neat. You nailed it. They're similar enough, yet different enough. I only have one minor request. Could you make a version for FSPort with all beam turrets replaced with TTs? I just realized that it's gonna look a bit out of place with FS2 weapons modeled in. This shouldn't really be too hard, depending on how the turrets are done.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Hades on January 17, 2014, 10:51:02 am
Neat. You nailed it. They're similar enough, yet different enough. I only have one minor request. Could you make a version for FSPort with all beam turrets replaced with TTs? I just realized that it's gonna look a bit out of place with FS2 weapons modeled in. This shouldn't really be too hard, depending on how the turrets are done.
Absolutely. The Leviathan will be getting the same treatment in this regard as well.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Kolgena on January 17, 2014, 08:56:15 pm
I'm really digging the Fenris. Managed to keep all of Retail's feel while shedding all of Retail's ugly.

Are you planning to keep the purple paint job on the front of it as a texture detail? I see the recessed bits on the Levi where the pattern goes, but nothing on the Fenris.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Alan Bolte on February 17, 2014, 07:57:03 pm
Changed your mind about the recessed bridge windows? I'm finding myself ambivalent on the topic.
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Nyctaeus on February 10, 2019, 07:35:43 pm
- Time to refresh this!
- Wait? Nyx? Are you mad? This is 5-years old thread! You need a veeery good, freaking reason to necro it.

Well... I do.
(https://i.imgur.com/ggg7t7F.jpg)
Obviously WiP
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Nightmare on February 10, 2019, 07:40:15 pm
I'll never understand why people apoligize for threadnecroting when they have better reasons than some people starting new threads. :D
Title: Re: GTC Fenris
Post by: Cyborg17 on February 10, 2019, 09:51:04 pm
Would love a 3D printed version of this.  :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: