Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Mobius on January 19, 2014, 04:27:17 am
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Not actual interview, but rather a very long answer to the question "what do you think about FreeSpace?". The author is a now inactive HLP member known as High Max who's still around as a lurker. You can also find the article here (http://thelightblueribbon.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/freespace-an-awesome-space-simulator-game-for-the-pc/).
When I was in high school, I owned a game called Descent 3 and saw a game advertised in the back called FreeSpace. So I found and purchased the original FreeSpace at the mall thinking it was a sequel to Descent 3 since the title was ‘Descent FreeSpace’ and I also realize there was a FreeSpace 2 in existence since it was also advertised. So I purchased FreeSpace 2 as well around the same time. I then discovered it likely was not connected to the Descent storyline. However, I wasn’t entirely sure if it was connected to the Descent series for several years, but now I realize it was not connected and the 1st FreeSpace game was only titled ‘Descent’ because it was made by Interplay, just as the Descent series was. Anyways, I purchased the games and was quickly drawn into them since they had excellent gameplay, indepth storylines and descriptions for every weapon and ship in the game, wide variety of ships, briefings and debriefings, objectives to accomplish on top of staying alive, creative ways to play a mission, ability to earn medals and record all your kills and other stats, cutscenes, a lot of different functional keys (controls) that perform actions in the game, and even voice acting. It is an action-packed 3D space simulator with decent effects, military terms and strategy, the ability to give orders to wingmen, as well as the ability to disable or disarm warships or subsystems, and even scan cargo and information gathering.
FreeSpace starts off in the year 2335 in a war where the Terrans (humans) within a military called the Galactic Terran Alliance (GTA) fights against a species called the Vasudans, and their military is called the PVN (Parliamentary Vasudan Navy) in the 1st part of the game. One notable part of the FreeSpace series is that you fight against an enigma of a species known as the Shivans which cause the Terrans and Vasudans to put their differences aside and join forces in hopes of mutual survival against this technologically superior race that just appeared out of nowhere and starts wiping out anything that isn’t Shivan. Their motives and origins remain a mystery throughout the entire series, though there are clues given during the cutscenes and events of the series that give you an idea of what possible motives and origins that the Shivans have. Throughout the series, communication between the Shivans and the Terrans and Vasudans is never officially established, though the rogue Galactic Terran Intelligence in FS1 (GTI) and the Neo Terran Front in FS2 (NTF) have communicated with them. Though the findings are classified at the highest level and it is never known to the player or most Terrans and Vasudans what communication was exchanged. Nevertheless, it ended badly and the Shivans clearly have no interest in diplomacy since they are so alien, and appear xenophobic and only seem interested in wiping out all species and blowing up stars possibly to open up new subspace nodes (like portals between stars systems) to connect whatever star they blew up to their home system (if they have a home system). So for the most part, they remain an enigma, but we do find out that the Shivans are vastly superior to the GTA /PVN and later the GTVA (Galactic Terran/Vasudan Alliance) in FS2, both in technology and in numbers, even after the Terrans and Vasudans stole technology (including shield generators) from the Shivans in FS1 and developed energy shield systems and better ships and weapons as a result in order to combat the threat. But the GTVA is hopelessly outnumbered. The Shivans have likely been at it for millions of years and it is known that 8,000 years ago, an empire known as the Ancients was wiped out by the Shivans. Study of Ancient tech within ruins also helped the Terrans and Vasudans save themselves once.
About a year later when I started college and was required to create an email address for the 1st time at the end of 2001, I created an email address with the words ‘freespace’ and ‘fanatic’ since I considered myself a fanatic of the games. I even drew artwork of made up ships on my subject folders for the games since I envisioned larger ships that could potentially be used in fan-made addons of FreeSpace 2 and was always hoping for a FreeSpace 3, though there still isn’t an FS3 and there probably won’t be at this point.
Later, I discovered that fans made their own missions and campaigns since the instruction manual told me about the fact you could select fan-made missions within the tech database under ‘mission simulator’ or make your own. So I downloaded and played some campaigns. This increased replay value and fun factor quite a bit, especially in campaigns where people included custom ship models and new weapons.
Around 2004, I discovered the Source Code Project (SCP). I realized it was a project that improved the graphics and features of FS2. This added further replay value and increased the fun factor even more. FreeSpace 1 has been remade by the fans to be played in FreeSpace 2 SCP and is called the FreeSpace Port.
Even to this day, I play FS2 campaigns using the SCP builds and graphical enhancements created by the fans of FS. Though I don’t play it as much as I used to, I monitor the FS forum known as HLP (Hard Light Productions) for new information, campaigns, and improved models and graphical enhancements. Newer graphical features for the SCP include shadows, deferred lighting, and modeled thrusters along with heat trails. This is on top of older yet fairly new graphical enhancements such as normal maps, higher poly redone models, flaming debris, and much better lighting, to name a few. Ingame cutscenes, being able to land in fighterbays on larger warships, being able to jump through subspace in-mission without the mission ending, and even new and improved huds are possible with the SCP nowadays. Maybe even first person missions in the future could be done. There are also some total conversions available for the SCP, including Wing Commander Saga, The Babylon Project, Star Fox, Diaspora, and a few more. Perhaps one day the SCP will even include geo-mod – destruction of parts of a ship will be similar to real life destruction of objects, such as holes and marks being left behind, pieces flying off, etc. As it stands now, if you shoot at a larger ship or fire a missile at it, no holes or indents are created, even if hull integrity drops quite a bit. This element is unrealistic as it stands, but the future holds many possibilities for improvement. I hope that in the future, they will reintroduce animated glowmaps for Shivan ships. Since they improved the polycount of many Shivan ships recently and included normal maps for them, the animated glowmaps for those particular ships are gone. Obviously they would have to take the textures, make brighter and dimmer versions of those textures, and splice them in such a way that it gives an animated effect. Perhaps it isn’t too hard to do, I’m guessing, but I guess performance costs are a concern from what I remember a forum member saying in the past. Something about it being troublesome with 4096 resolution textures, but more recently, another forum member saying people can start making them if they wanted, IIRC. The idea of animated glowmap normal maps combined with deferred lighting (the glow being a light source and can reflect off of nearby objects) sounds intriguing.
Taking my knowledge of the FreeSpace and FreeSpace 2 storylines and combining it with logical assumptions and with the knowledge I learned from reading an interview with the lead writer of a company called Volition, the game designers who worked for Interplay and were directly responsible for creating the FreeSpace series, I am able to make logical assumptions on the origins and motives of the Shivans to a degree. In FS1, the Shivans were focused on wiping out any species capable of subspace travel in the vicinity of Terran/Vasudan space and looking for a star suitable for blowing up, while in FS2, they didn’t care much about the GTVA and was focused on blowing up the Capella star. So it is obviously that overall, their primary motivation is blowing up stars (making them supernova) for the likely purpose of creating new subspace nodes to link those regions of space to their home system or systems. After all, all species want to spread their territories, consume more resources, reproduce, and repeat the process.
As for the reasons why the Shivans seem intent on eliminating any space-faring subspace-capable species, I can think of 3 reasons… 1) To completely secure the systems around the stars they suspect are suitable for blowing up in order to prevent any species from interfering with their goal. 2) To prevent any species from following them back to their systems and causing them issues or harm. 3) To prevent any species from becoming technologically and numerically powerful enough to genuinely threaten the Shivans. So the Alliance trying to collapse the nodes in the events of FS2 may have been pointless because the supernova would no doubt collapse them anyway, as evident that the nebula system beyond Gamma Draconis and the unstable nodes linked to that nebula system required stabilizing by the Ancients’ Knossos devices were no doubt the result of a past supernova created by the Shivans long before the Ancients encountered the Shivans after creating the portals to temporarily stabilize the nodes leading to that system and the ones beyond. So it is likely that the 3rd Knossos device in the system beyond the nebula also leads to some nebula, since I assume that most nodes becoming collapsed are the result of the system beyond having its star destroyed. This is speculation, but it is a logical assumption. I even recall a campaign a while ago where you go beyond the 3rd Knossos and a yellow nebula awaited you. At the time, I thought it was uncreative and lame, but maybe it makes sense.
I also believe that the Shivans were in fact created long ago by some unknown master species. This is even speculated in the tech database in FS2 in the Shivans’ entry.
I personally feel that the fan-made campaign that would come closest to an FS3 would be Inferno, especially once the updated version is available. In my opinion, there are not very many Post Capella era campaigns out there that are heavy on new ships and content that feel like what an FS3 would feel like. I think the story of Inferno and its version of the Shivans feels closest to what an FS3 would be like, especially when knowing what the lead writer had in mind for the Shivans. I sure hope Inferno can pull off more than just 2 parts and it can feature incursions into Shivan space with even larger ships than the super juggernauts to contend with. Heck, with the SCP these days, many possibilities can be implemented including the concept of ‘destroy the core’ of a big ship that would be better pulled off with the features of the SCP compared to Retail; kind of like in the Gradius space shooter games of old but in 3D and FreeSpace style. Maybe even like in ‘Return of the Jedi‘ when the fighters enter the Death Star. I recall the older Wings of Dawn campaign doing that, though it was not part of the FS universe and is still a rarity in FS, 1 mission in War in Heaven: Part 3 also did that as an alternative to stopping a massive asteroid base on a collision course to Earth. So even if these ships would otherwise be too large for a player to normally have an affect or interact with them in a practical manner, the player and perhaps his wingmates and backup could enter the massive ship and destroy its core or some other vital components, warp out from inside it, reappear many clicks away (since SCP allows this without ending the mission), and watch it slowly blow up, slowly shattering off flaming debris in some geo-mod fashion. So much was planned for Inferno back in 2003, so I hope there are still high ambitions for it since it seems to be the only remaining campaign in production closest to what an FS3 would be like, especially after older campaigns like Over the Top, The Apocalypse Project, and End War seem to have been cancelled and could have been on similar ground and scale with Inferno and being like an FS3.
More importantly, I look forward to what will become of FS in the future and always look forward to improvements of the engine, and I await a stable and optimized version of a build containing shadows and deferred lighting, though it did not make it into the mediavps-2014.
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Good to know that HM's writing style is just as idiosyncratic as it was before he did everything in his power to get banned here.
I mean, seriously, what's the point of posting this here? There's nothing in there that would qualify as an original thought, with some serious misunderstandings of what we know about the notional FS3, some speculation about shivan intentions that never go beyond points we in the community have been arguing about for years, a complete misunderstanding of what kind of gameplay the SCP has made possible (Seriously, this whole "destroy the weak point for massive damage" thing was in FS2 retail, that is not something we made possible!), a slight misconception about the relationship between FSU and SCP, and of course the eternal running gag that is geomod.
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This was planned as an interview and turned into something else, that's it. Also note that it poses no "threat" at all due to HM's banned status.
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Ok, this may be weird, but I always thought that the Interview section of the board should be reserved to Interviews of notable people of the Community, or people relevant to the interests of the board. High Max kinda isn't any of those, as much as you may like him. So, I ask again, what's the point of interviewing him, when the only people who even remember him are the ones that were utterly irritated by him when he was active three years or so ago?
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I understand your point here.
In this particular case, though I know HM's not a mod developer or a coder, he's a fan who's been playing the game for 14 years and felt like writing something about it. In my opinion a person so attached to the FreeSpace continuity should have a say on the subject and deserve at least a tiny spot here on Interviews.
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I would think that there are plenty of people who aren't remembered for being completely aweful (and banned), but are also very attached to the FreeSpace continuity that could have been given this spot.
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Spots aren't limited though, are they? This may be in bad taste or whatever, but it does no actual harm, does it?
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It's not an interview by any means. This should be in GenFS regardless of whatever else you think.
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They are only limited by how often they are posted, which is not very.
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This is total garbage and a waste of space and effort, but I guess it's not doing anyone any harm. It's like interviewing the FreeSpace equivalent of Gene Ray: amusing, in a sad way.
At least he's positive about Inferno, which is always nice to hear. Rampage has done some amazing work.
e: oh, it's in Gen FS now, much better
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Seeing people throwing this vitriol around at someone you banned out of here who at the end of the day is writing something highly positive about the game and HLP itself, when instead they could be all bitter and twisted disgusts me. He has clearly moved on (I know he was forced out, but you know what I mean) but some of you clearly have not.
You got rid of him and you're still putting the boot in.
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Some people deserve what they get ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Finding High Max a waste of time is less 'bitter and twisted' than it is 'indication that you ever interacted with High Max'. Rather then getting disgusted and angry at people, you could probably just ask around about his conduct. You might find the position more sympathetic.
The motivation behind the interview feels pretty transparent too, which is not going to help anyone's opinion of it.
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Some people deserve what they get ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is too much. He's gone. Let it go. Some people might read that and be drawn to HLP. What are they going to think about the community if they read this thread?
The motivation behind the interview feels pretty transparent too, which is not going to help anyone's opinion of it.
What does that mean?
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Well, he was gone, and we had let it go, which rather answers both questions...
As a 15 year FreeSpace veteran I nominate myself to be interviewed next.
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Well, he was gone, and we had let it go, which rather answers both questions...
As a 15 year FreeSpace veteran I nominate myself to be interviewed next.
I'm not complaining about the interview thing. I have no problem with this thread being moved out of there.
But for the rest, judge the post, not the poster.
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But for the rest, judge the post, not the poster.
You may perhaps note The E did, then moved on to compare it to previous posts by the poster to form a judgement of them.
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But for the rest, judge the post, not the poster.
Why should we? High Max was banned because his conduct on this board was considered completely unacceptable. He then moved over to Sectorgame where he proceeded to act in exactly the same way despite being given a second chance to straighten up.
High Max managed to be such a complete tool that he was banned from HLP permanently. Not many people have managed that. This community is surprisingly good about tolerating people who decide to act like idiots but after years of being warned, he was finally banned. Which means we don't ever want to see his posts again. Why the hell should we have to put up with him by proxy?
As long as he's gone, he's gone and I don't need to be irritated by him. I don't care about High Max as long as he's not bothering me or HLP. If he's going to do that, next time I see his posts by proxy, I'm banning the proxy.
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next time I see his posts by proxy, I'm banning the proxy.
Now wait just a minute...
I won't be under any threat from this, and I can fully understand not wanting there to be a conduit for High Max to get back on HLP when he's not supposed to be here, but this post was supposed to be a positive thing. And the last time (and only time I know of) that this was done, the thread created was positive:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85665.5
Maybe this one would have been too if it hadn't been placed in interviews.
If you absolutely must still go through with this, at least make sure Mobius knows about it (if you haven't already) but I disagree with this. This is not in the name of trying to get High Max back here, he was just showing you all something nice.
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High Max does not get to post by proxy. The fact that this has happened twice is hilariously dumb.
He had chance after chance after chance after chance. Bringing High Max posts to HLP is rather the equivalent of showing up with a potted ****.
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In fact it's now clear that this interview had nothing to do with 'a 14 year old FreeSpace vet', it's just about backdooring High Max's posts onto this forum.
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In fact it's now clear that this interview had nothing to do with 'a 14 year old FreeSpace vet', it's just about backdooring High Max's posts onto this forum.
I disagree. If this was happening week after week, then I could get behind it, but it's not.
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I disagree. If this was happening week after week, then I could get behind it, but it's not.
As you are newer than these issues and unaware of the personal relationships involved, your ignorance is forgivable. Your insistence that you know better than people who are familiar with the issues at hand and the personal relationships involved is not forgivable.
Those of you who think you know everything are annoying those of us who do.
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I won't be under any threat from this, and I can fully understand not wanting there to be a conduit for High Max to get back on HLP when he's not supposed to be here, but this post was supposed to be a positive thing.
High Max had and wasted his chance to be a productive member of not one but two Freespace communities. He's a deeply unpleasent racist, mysoginistic wanker and his views have no place on this board. The fact that he'd probably strenuously deny being such doesn't make him right. We banned him for that reason. That and the fact that many of his posts were simply "Here's my completely ****ed up opinion on something, Discuss"
And the last time (and only time I know of) that this was done, the thread created was positive:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85665.5
Maybe this one would have been too if it hadn't been placed in interviews.
I don't care where it was placed. I don't care if it was positive before. That probably only happened precisely because High Max can't post, making it a one sided discussion at best. I care that someone wants to give High Max a backdoor onto this board. I'm flat out stating that's not going to happen.
If you absolutely must still go through with this, at least make sure Mobius knows about it (if you haven't already) but I disagree with this. This is not in the name of trying to get High Max back here, he was just showing you all something nice.
I've posted my intent to do that publicly on this board. If Mobius isn't reading threads he started, tough ****.
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Such hatred... :eek2:
I've posted my intent to do that publicly on this board. If Mobius isn't reading threads he started, tough ****.
I will tell him.
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Feel free to tell DSmart [3000AD] too :P
And maybe an0n, so I've heard.
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Having read the thread I wanted to suggest perhaps something obvious, but it would be nice to see more interviews about notable individuals of the community, in particular if people are seeking the spotlight for their mod works or similarly. Certainly we have IRC and can communicate personally with eachother, however, from what I see outside of HLP, it would be nice to have content outwardly to acquaint newcomers to the regulars and showing that the community is hard at work at making new content. I'm certain this is not a original suggestion but I think approaching things constructively could go a long way.
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That's part of the goal of the 'find your next campaign' thread - putting all the work in the context of a dialogue and showing how every campaign helps every other campaign. Play JAD. I spend so much time hanging out with Axem and Spoon that I should probably do interviews with both of them about their interests and formal techniques. Play JAD. I also think visual techniques in BtA deserve some serious examination and would probably reward some scholarship. Play JAD. The problem with attempts to write any serious critical work about HLP is that a lot of the people who want to do it are basically interested in pissing on other peoples' work rather than thoughtful, joyful examination of what's been achieved. Play JAD. What I'm trying to say here is that you should be careful what you wish for, because formalized attempts to get things done around here usually end up killed by inertia or by attempts to exploit them. Play J
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Oh yeah.. and definitely play JAD. For realz.
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Was that supposed to compel me to an action? It failed miserably General. Now , if you'll excuse me, JAD's installing.
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Bring Spoon to me. I will grill him thoroughly on all things Wings of Dawn. :cool: :D
Speaking of interviews, I clicked the link in the OP. That's got a link to this page. I don't like the idea of someone's first impression of HLP to be this thread. However, at first I thought that was Max's blog, but it's got interviews by Mobius on it, so now I'm thinking it's Mobius' blog, not Max's blog.
I looked at the related section at the bottom. There's an interview where he (Mobius) himself is interviewed, Ransom, Battuta, Trashman, there's probably more.
Mobius, if it was made by you, not Max, would you be so kind as to remove the link to this thread please? This is not a good face for people to see for their first look at HLP. I've never seen this kind of hate before on HLP.
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This is a fine thread for people to see. The fact that HLP detests racist, misogynistic scum is something to be proud of.
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Such hatred...
I don't think you know what this means and I really don't think you should wander around proclaiming everyone hates a past member when you've again got no perspective worth a damn on the issues involved because you weren't a participant and one side tried to erase the evidence.
Because it really seems like just flaming then. Out of blatant ignorance.
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As a 15 year FreeSpace veteran I nominate myself to be interviewed next.
Okay, here's some questions for you...
1: Can you summarize your history with the FreeSpace fan community for us? (And if yes, what would that summary be?)
2: What accomplishments within the community are you proudest of?
3: Boxers or briefs?
4: What missions or campaigns that you weren't involved with do you most enjoy?
I only really care about answers to the non-even non-single prime-numbered question(s)
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Can I make a request? Can we just lock this thread and open a new one where we can talk about something productive? This thread seems to be opening a lot of closed wounds, and while you all have your reasons, and are quite frankly entitled to them, just being angry isn't going to forward anything in the community. And from the looks of it, everything was already behind you, so can we leave it once more?
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Yeah, probably better that way.