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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Anaz on July 10, 2002, 10:06:07 pm

Title: Pirates
Post by: Anaz on July 10, 2002, 10:06:07 pm
I was writing something up for a mini-campaign I was planing to do, and I decided on a bit of a story line, started to figure out how the player got into the situation, and then realized that I have no idea how people become pirates. I would appreciate to know how someone goes from pilot to pirate.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Blue Lion on July 10, 2002, 10:15:42 pm
Purchase eye patch, parrot and hook. Go "arrrrr" a lot. Baam, pirate....
Title: Pirates
Post by: Anaz on July 10, 2002, 10:24:39 pm
bad bl, stop spamming...

I'll just clarify for those of you on BL's intelectual level a freespace 2 era pirate
Title: Pirates
Post by: LtNarol on July 10, 2002, 10:36:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
Purchase eye patch, parrot and hook. Go "arrrrr" a lot. Baam, pirate....
what he said :D

seriously:

leave the GTVA
get on some transport to a colonized but developing system
make some friends
buy/steal any ship you can
terrorize the shipping lanes
Title: Pirates
Post by: Blue Lion on July 10, 2002, 10:38:49 pm
geez analazon, take a joke. You can still be a GTVA pilot and be a pirate. Just depends on who you're stealing from
Title: Pirates
Post by: an0n on July 10, 2002, 10:44:25 pm
(http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/patch.gif) Avast mateys! (http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/patch.gif)

You get to be a pirate by:
[list=a]
  • Being the son/daughter of a pirate
  • Being pushed too far by the beauracrats and deciding to circumvent the law
  • Seeing how much money you can make smuggling slaves
  • Crippling an enemy while in battle and instead of calling in the GTVA to arrest them you decide to board their ship, loot their holds and kill the crew. Then you get a taste for it.
  • Being given an ultimatum by other pirates ("Join us or DIE!!!!")
  • Doing something illegal and evading justice then having to turn to crime for income
  • Inheritting an extremely powerful vessel and realising you can do what you like without fear of ever being arrested or destroyed
[/size]

Basically through: Greed, anarchism, fear, neccesity for cash or sheer love for violence.
Title: Pirates
Post by: CP5670 on July 10, 2002, 11:14:33 pm
Personally, I think that the whole concept of pirates in FS2 campaigns is pretty far-fetched and unrealistic; you ever see such "pirates" in real life with heavy military equipment terrorizing the world? :p Full-scale rebellions from seceding elements of the GTVA navy are much more plausible in my opinion. Although such pirates do exist, they are not going to have the firepower to engage in combat with a military force.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Anaz on July 10, 2002, 11:18:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
(http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/patch.gif) Avast mateys! (http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/patch.gif)

You get to be a pirate by:
[list=a]
  • Being the son/daughter of a pirate
  • Being pushed too far by the beauracrats and deciding to circumvent the law
  • Seeing how much money you can make smuggling slaves
  • Crippling an enemy while in battle and instead of calling in the GTVA to arrest them you decide to board their ship, loot their holds and kill the crew. Then you get a taste for it.
  • Being given an ultimatum by other pirates ("Join us or DIE!!!!")
  • Doing something illegal and evading justice then having to turn to crime for income
  • Inheritting an extremely powerful vessel and realising you can do what you like without fear of ever being arrested or destroyed
[/size]

Basically through: Greed, anarchism, fear, neccesity for cash or sheer love for violence.


thank you! that makes alot of sense!!

oh and bl, I was responding to your joke with a joke, you just didn't get it :p
Title: Pirates
Post by: Alikchi on July 11, 2002, 12:17:49 am
Is this about Capellan refugees?
I had a mini-campaign planned where a family of Capellan refugees, pissed off at the GTVA for losing the war, turned to piracy (started out small by stealing Valkyries from mothballs and such) and eventually became a kind of space mafia.
Title: Pirates
Post by: LtNarol on July 11, 2002, 01:20:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Personally, I think that the whole concept of pirates in FS2 campaigns is pretty far-fetched and unrealistic; you ever see such "pirates" in real life with heavy military equipment terrorizing the world? :p Full-scale rebellions from seceding elements of the GTVA navy are much more plausible in my opinion. Although such pirates do exist, they are not going to have the firepower to engage in combat with a military force.
small pirate bands -can- steal military equipment and certainly mothballed cruisers
Title: Pirates
Post by: CP5670 on July 11, 2002, 02:20:25 am
Not the way they do in FS2 campaigns, though. :p They would have very outdated technology (think ML-16 in an era of shields), and remember that they are just pirates, so they cannot put forward a "higher cause" for people to die for that attracts followers to insurrections. Pirate gangs might hijack minor corporate freight transports at the most, but they would not be stupid enough to even try and interfere with military operations. :p
Title: Pirates
Post by: karajorma on July 11, 2002, 04:19:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Personally, I think that the whole concept of pirates in FS2 campaigns is pretty far-fetched and unrealistic; you ever see such "pirates" in real life with heavy military equipment terrorizing the world? :p Full-scale rebellions from seceding elements of the GTVA navy are much more plausible in my opinion. Although such pirates do exist, they are not going to have the firepower to engage in combat with a military force.


Actually piracy still exists in the world today. In the South China Seas there are still people who board vessels to rob them. IIRC they do clash with the police from time to time but of course they avoid the military.
 I think FS2 pirates would be capable of attacking a light military target but only with heavy losses (which would mean that they wouldn`t do it unless the rewards were very high). They definately wouldn`t have any hope of attacking a heavily guarded target but they might stand a chance against a wing of fighters if they caught them off guard.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Zarax on July 11, 2002, 05:15:40 am
Wanna see a MOD about piracy?
Just wait for Rise Of GCA!!!
Title: Pirates
Post by: CP5670 on July 11, 2002, 10:51:12 am
Quote
Actually piracy still exists in the world today. In the South China Seas there are still people who board vessels to rob them. IIRC they do clash with the police from time to time but of course they avoid the military.
I think FS2 pirates would be capable of attacking a light military target but only with heavy losses (which would mean that they wouldn`t do it unless the rewards were very high). They definately wouldn`t have any hope of attacking a heavily guarded target but they might stand a chance against a wing of fighters if they caught them off guard.


Exactly, so a military pilot probably would not come in contact with pirates during his missions. Since pirates are after money, they would not have much to gain from a military confrontation compared with the potential losses they would incur; they would probably go more for civilian corporate freighters. ;)
Title: Pirates
Post by: karajorma on July 11, 2002, 01:19:40 pm
Yeah but unlike on Earth the military can leap in to help ships under attack from pirates almost instantly. The pirates would probably have lots of scraps with military ships which resulted in them running away.
 If the pirates saw an easy way to cripple the military in their system they probably would do it so that for a few days they could get away with murder.
Title: Pirates
Post by: aldo_14 on July 11, 2002, 03:52:21 pm
There are still, AFAIK, mercenaries that fight in Afrcian wars, or act as bodyguards for rich & unscrupulus people, or for drugs barons in South America.

It's quite feasible an FS2 drugs baron could operate from, say, a small asteroid base, and have a hired band of ex pilots / refugees / mercs... after all, the last 2 wars would have left quite a few salvage opportunites, not to mention the decommissioned FS1 ships.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Anaz on July 11, 2002, 07:41:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
Yeah but unlike on Earth the military can leap in to help ships under attack from pirates almost instantly. The pirates would probably have lots of scraps with military ships which resulted in them running away.
 If the pirates saw an easy way to cripple the military in their system they probably would do it so that for a few days they could get away with murder.


yes, I am gonna have to make a way around that...

still though, sensor jammers and early warning sysems could make it so that the pirates could detect the military and leave
Title: Pirates
Post by: Hippo on July 12, 2002, 08:26:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Personally, I think that the whole concept of pirates in FS2 campaigns is pretty far-fetched and unrealistic; you ever see such "pirates" in real life with heavy military equipment terrorizing the world? :p Full-scale rebellions from seceding elements of the GTVA navy are much more plausible in my opinion. Although such pirates do exist, they are not going to have the firepower to engage in combat with a military force.


I may be biased, being from the US, but AlQuadea?(I can't spell)
Title: Pirates
Post by: Black Wolf on July 12, 2002, 09:27:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by Hippo


I may be biased, being from the US, but AlQuadea...


...aren't pirates, but terrorists. Pirates commit crimes in the interst of making money. Terrorists are interested in committing crimes simply for the destruction those crimes cause, and the trouble this causes the people the terrorists are opposed to. The difference is a big one.
Title: Pirates
Post by: penguin on July 12, 2002, 09:39:09 am
Piracy is alive and well (and has been since the beginning of Capital) anywhere the pirates can get away with it.  It used to be (XVIII century) the Carribbean, now it's the S. China sea.

It's a risk/reward thing now as ever; if there is stuff of sufficient value that the pirates can get, with an acceptably small risk of being killed or captured, it will happen.  Space has a lot of places to hide, too.

I see no reason why the trend would not continue into the FS2 era, unless[list=1]The piracy thing certainly has been done before in FS2 campaigns, but it is plausable.  As long as they don't have Orions.

I think pirates taking on the GTVA is reaching a little -- opium runners in the S. China sea would have trouble facing a modern navy.  A more reasonable approach would be to have the player in a local police force or militia, with more limited resources to combat the pirates.

Just my 2c as usual.
Title: Pirates
Post by: CP5670 on July 12, 2002, 09:42:13 am
Quote
Yeah but unlike on Earth the military can leap in to help ships under attack from pirates almost instantly. The pirates would probably have lots of scraps with military ships which resulted in them running away.
If the pirates saw an easy way to cripple the military in their system they probably would do it so that for a few days they could get away with murder.


I doubt that the military would get involved in these kinds of petty issues though; if a convoy called for help after being attacked by pirate gangs, it is much more likely that local police would be dispatched instead. While it is true that the pirates might go after some very weak parts of the military to complement future operations, the chances of an "easy way" even to exist are dwindlingly small when you think of the differences in technology and the fact that the pirates will only have 20 or so members at the most, probably none of which are well trained for combat. ;)

Quote
There are still, AFAIK, mercenaries that fight in Afrcian wars, or act as bodyguards for rich & unscrupulus people, or for drugs barons in South America.

It's quite feasible an FS2 drugs baron could operate from, say, a small asteroid base, and have a hired band of ex pilots / refugees / mercs... after all, the last 2 wars would have left quite a few salvage opportunites, not to mention the decommissioned FS1 ships.


That sounds fine; the only thing I am saying is that these mercenary bands would not try to take on military units, and a pilot in the GTVA navy would not encounter such guys during missions.

Quote
I may be biased, being from the US, but AlQuadea?(I can't spell)


Well I wouldn't really call those guys pirates, seeing as they are not after money and are putting in a higher religious cause to gain millions of followers; this is the typical religious terrorist band.
Title: Pirates
Post by: karajorma on July 12, 2002, 01:00:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
I doubt that the military would get involved in these kinds of petty issues though; if a convoy called for help after being attacked by pirate gangs, it is much more likely that local police would be dispatched instead. While it is true that the pirates might go after some very weak parts of the military to complement future operations, the chances of an "easy way" even to exist are dwindlingly small when you think of the differences in technology and the fact that the pirates will only have 20 or so members at the most, probably none of which are well trained for combat. ;)


It depends on the set up of the GTVA. It may be that the military are also resposible for police actions too. There is no data in either direction from FS1 or FS2.
 I agree with you fully that the chances of the pirates getting a chance to cripple the navy in a certain sector is very small. If they did get the chance though that is the sort of time you`d see pirates attack a military target. Otherwise it isn`t worth it.

Also be aware that like in I-war II pirates can actually be a front for something else.
Title: Pirates
Post by: tems on July 14, 2002, 09:19:47 am
as far as becoming a pirate, like has been said it's just down to capitalism/greed.
would a gtva pilot ever encounter pirates?
i would assume that there is some sort of police force in gtva space but maybe a pilot could still encounter pirates but not quite in a head on confrontation.
perhaps just chancin upon pirates attacking a ship and then being ordered to disable the pirate ship before they can get away.

actually now i think about it in columbia the F.A.R.C rebels regularly clash with the army and a lot of their funding comes from illegal activities, also the IRA ,who also take on soldiers but not in an all out attack , make quite a bit of wong by pushing drugs and extortion.
two pirate like activities.

fs pirates prolly wouldn't ever directly attack the military but maybe if small numbers of fighters came across them they wouldn't back down
Title: Pirates
Post by: Hippo on July 15, 2002, 09:36:03 am
there was pirates in silent threat, and they openly attacked once they were discovered
Title: Pirates
Post by: Riven on July 15, 2002, 12:35:31 pm
the russian maffia are aleged to have a nuclear sub, yet you don't see the military doing much about that!
Title: Pirates
Post by: karajorma on July 15, 2002, 03:59:17 pm
What can you do? Blow it up? You have to wait until it's in port and storm it.

Besides it's a RUSSIAN sub. They're probably waiting for the crew to die of radiation poisoning. Without trained techs to run the ship properly it's only a matter of time. :)
Title: Pirates
Post by: penguin on July 15, 2002, 08:44:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Riven
the russian maffia are aleged to have a nuclear sub, yet you don't see the military doing much about that!
If it was hanging around outside New York Harbor I'll bet you would.  Or London, or Sydney, or Tokyo...
Title: Pirates
Post by: Blue Lion on July 16, 2002, 04:45:44 am
You don't know, maybe there is one
Title: Pirates
Post by: Flipside on July 19, 2002, 11:39:17 am
Actually, pirates are perfectly possible in FS2, as long as they could either take out communications in some way or jam them. The only thing to remember is that no pirate in existence is going to risk his life for cargo, they are going to try and leave pronto when the GTVA turn up :)
Title: Pirates
Post by: Megadude on July 26, 2002, 12:20:52 am
Pirates are possible.  They will be in the outer, rim worlds where GTVA presence is limited.  It would be especially likely if the GTVA was involved in war somewhere else.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Flipside on July 26, 2002, 12:51:32 pm
Hmmmmmm.... I think I'll have to post about Twisted Infinities in here once it's up and ruinning again :)

Flipside
Title: Pirates
Post by: Righteous1 on July 26, 2002, 03:10:02 pm
Its plausible there would be pirates for any number of reasons.  Most probably get disallusioned with NTF, GTVA, etc. and choose to go it alone or join a band.

As far as ships, I'd expect them to refurbish FS1 era ships up to corvette class.  Weapons though could be scavenged from battle areas or raids on GTVA remote cargo depots.

Oh, Heya CP5670!  :)
Title: Argh!
Post by: Thor on July 26, 2002, 03:44:49 pm
Aslong as a campaign/mission can explain their pressence realistically, then they are fine.  
Derelict's pirates were hired by a corporation, whille mine (see new thread in the Freespace General, (some one tell me how to link to it :doh: )) are those same pirates (The campaign's set in the Derelict timeline) that escaped the Shivans and GTVA.

In terms of ships, I agree with Righteous1, nothing above corvette, unless you have a really, really good reason.  Fighters can could possibly be as good as the beginning of the FS2 campaign, but nothing ultra new.
Title: Re: Argh!
Post by: Black Wolf on July 27, 2002, 02:51:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by Thor
Derelict's pirates were hired by a corporation, whille mine (see new thread in the Freespace General, (some one tell me how to link to it :doh: )) are those same pirates


And TIs are, well, like Flipside said - when F2S is back up and running again :D.

Quote
Originally posted by Thor
In terms of ships, I agree with Righteous1, nothing above corvette, unless you have a really, really good reason.  Fighters can could possibly be as good as the beginning of the FS2 campaign, but nothing ultra new. [/B]


Even a corvette seems a bit much for pirates to have - the Deimos was pitched as Ultra Modern in the FS2 tech room.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Thor on July 27, 2002, 10:12:14 am
Quote
Even a corvette seems a bit much for pirates to have - the Deimos was pitched as Ultra Modern in the FS2 tech room.


Tue enough.  My Pirates use civie ships like science cruisers and gas miners outfitted with a few beams.  They are incredibly weak and don't stand a chance against reall capital ships, they are more than capable of destryoing Triton's, argoes and other typical pirate targets.  That seams a bit more likely, as it is cheaper and quicker to steal/buy a beam cannon off a derelict cruiser than it is to try and make the whole thing spaceworthy.  That seems like the Pirate way to do things.  Arghh!:headz:

Thor, Check out my post on my new campaign!  Feedback Please!  Shameless self plug here:rolleyes:
Title: Pirates
Post by: Megadude on July 27, 2002, 11:09:41 am
If this is set sufficiently far into the future, any ship is possible.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Hippo on July 27, 2002, 01:09:15 pm
remember, this isn't like starwars where you can drop out of hyperspace anywhere... subspace can only take you from system to system, or to a destroyer or base, so if pirates started taking destroyers, who couldn't notice?
Title: Pirates
Post by: CP5670 on July 27, 2002, 07:59:46 pm
Quote
remember, this isn't like starwars where you can drop out of hyperspace anywhere... subspace can only take you from system to system, or to a destroyer or base, so if pirates started taking destroyers, who couldn't notice?


Well, since the end of FS1 they have known how to track ships through subspace. ;) The pirates probably could not get their hands on AWACS radar jamming ships either since those are a pretty recent invention (mid-FS2 campaign) and all the ones manufactured so far would be owned by the military.

Quote
Oh, Heya CP5670! :)


R1! It has been over a year since we last met; great to see you around here. How are things going?
Title: Pirates
Post by: Black Wolf on July 28, 2002, 01:45:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Hippo
remember, this isn't like starwars where you can drop out of hyperspace anywhere... subspace can only take you from system to system, or to a destroyer or base, so if pirates started taking destroyers, who couldn't notice?


Intra system jumps can go from any point within a system to any other point, though they aren't pinpoint accurate, which is why freighters and convoys never jump exactly to a node (well, that's the consensus anyway, though it's not :v: canon).
Title: Pirates
Post by: Flipside on July 28, 2002, 05:37:28 am
Also, remember that Piracy isn't just about docking with enemy ships and jumping though the docking hatch with a cutlass in your teeth ;)
A lot of Pirates simply bribed or co-erced trade captains into handing over their goods, now, this isn't going to work on a Military ship, but with civilian traders, they are going to be more concerned with not dying :)

Flipside
Title: Pirates
Post by: Thor on July 29, 2002, 09:59:36 pm
Quote
fs pirates prolly wouldn't ever directly attack the military but maybe if small numbers of fighters came across them they wouldn't back down


Actually, Modern day Pirates do attack millitary targets.  of course, FS pirates would have to have space dust for brains to do that, or really big egos, or both, but they still might.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Blue Lion on July 29, 2002, 10:03:11 pm
Or really big ships
Title: Pirates
Post by: Thor on July 29, 2002, 10:16:45 pm
that too.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Sandwich on September 10, 2002, 11:18:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
R1! It has been over a year since we last met; great to see you around here. How are things going?


Uh-oh - another math freak? ;) :p j/k


:) :p :cool: Welcome to the HLPBB Righteous1!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :lol:  :wink:
Title: Pirates
Post by: Razor on September 10, 2002, 11:28:50 am
Simple. Just stuck in your head the idea to tell people all the time the following line:

ARRR!! Walk the plank you goodie good piece of space crap!
Title: Pirates
Post by: Righteous1 on September 10, 2002, 01:59:51 pm
Thanks for the welcome! :)

Math freak?

No, but a  FS2 Freak definitely. :D

Quote
R1! It has been over a year since we last met; great to see you around here. How are things going?


Things are going well.  Still playing Jumpgate though I'm not as addicted as I once was.  FS2 is still my first love though.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Stryke 9 on September 10, 2002, 03:26:20 pm
In real life, space pirates would be few and far between. But they're fun, and this is a game, so assume that space ships are as common as cars, are easy to make, that plasma-based weaponry can be rigged in a garage, and that the void of space is crowded enough uniformy enough that a wing of tooled-out pirates wouldn't either get stuck jumping into a whole lotta nothing all the time, or swooping into an extremely crowded trade depot and being atomized by 40,000 ships.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Solatar on September 10, 2002, 03:29:32 pm
I thought you became a pirate by typing in arrrrwalktheplank while in mission. This huge :v: pirate ship jumps in.
Title: Pirates
Post by: Su-tehp on September 17, 2002, 02:03:32 am
Quote
Originally posted by Razor
Simple. Just stuck in your head the idea to tell people all the time the following line:

ARRR!! Walk the plank you goodie good piece of space crap!


Actually, FS ships don't have planks (or any sort of wood), so you'd have to modify the line to this:

"ARRR!! I'll make you walk the airlock, you goodie good piece of space crap!...Seriously, though, just give me your valuables."

 :D
Title: Pirates
Post by: aldo_14 on September 17, 2002, 04:50:20 pm
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/wipshots/pirate2.jpg)

(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/wipshots/pirate5.jpg)
Title: Pirates
Post by: karajorma on September 17, 2002, 05:10:06 pm
Now I`m annoyed. I`ve spent ages working on a pirate asteroid base (and getting nowhere!) and then Aldo goes and makes one. :p
Title: Pirates
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 18, 2002, 10:24:13 am
Arrr, shiver me... erm... something...
Title: Pirates
Post by: aldo_14 on September 19, 2002, 03:44:09 pm
'Shiver me clipping'.

actually it's a large but appallingly poorly armed carrier (1.summat km long).  and the turrets have visiblity problems (they show thorugh the hull at certain angles on the main join), otherwise it'd be done by now.
Title: Pirates
Post by: StratComm on September 20, 2002, 12:25:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Thor


Actually, Modern day Pirates do attack millitary targets.  of course, FS pirates would have to have space dust for brains to do that, or really big egos, or both, but they still might.


I haven't ever heard of that.  Terrorists attack military targets, yes, but never pirates.  There is no cargo on a military ship worth having except maybe guns, and usually the crew of such a ship have access to those guns.  I'm sorry, but unless you are refering to the navy of some tiny third-world country, there isn't a soft enough military target for pirates to engage.  Pirates don't fight for the sake of fighting, after all; it's about profits and acceptable risks and attacking a heavily armed frigate (or even a transport ship with a couple dozen marines on board) just isn't an acceptable risk.