The FS1 Ancient cutscenes make it explicit that the Ancients expanded into space before discovering subspace: in fact, they filled up every accessible system.We've already talked about this. You're assuming your own litteral-ish interpretation of the Ancients is "explicit" enough, when the canonicity of half the stuff in FS1 is already debatable, let alone vague transcriptions from long-gone aliens.
The commentary on the Ancients cutscenes raises an interesting question. If Alpha 1 is picking these visions up via Nagari, who's transmitting them? Are they simply "residual signals" from the Ancients themselves? Is some other power deliberately sending him these messages?
To this end, either Vishnu or Shiva may have given "hints" to one Terran pilot. Not only would this have helped the Humans survive... remember that Alpha 1 ended up in Sol. His insights appear to have helped Mandho and the elders organize Ubuntu- in fact, he seems to have been among the founders of the Fedayeen.
I should add the weird canonical fact that jump nodes do not seem to obey classical orbital behavior! You can deduce this by comparing the position of the nodes in 'High Noon' to later missions featuring the same nodes.
I should add the weird canonical fact that jump nodes do not seem to obey classical orbital behavior! You can deduce this by comparing the position of the nodes in 'High Noon' to later missions featuring the same nodes.
First, it was Altair. Secondly, the knowledge came from both:To this end, either Vishnu or Shiva may have given "hints" to one Terran pilot. Not only would this have helped the Humans survive... remember that Alpha 1 ended up in Sol. His insights appear to have helped Mandho and the elders organize Ubuntu- in fact, he seems to have been among the founders of the Fedayeen.
If that was the case, they'd have to do more than only send Alpha 1 those "cutscenes", since the information about Shivan shields not working came not from the visions, but from the data-archive that the Vasudans scientists found on some planet (was it Aldebaran?).
In subspace, they cannot use their shields. And into subspace they can be tracked.
Perhaps the Vishnans did it themselves?I don't know how likely this is, but it may be worth keeping in mind this exchange from UT2:
There's been a theory proposed, I forget by who, that the "main" FS universe could be an experiment. The Vishnans told the Shivans: "Ok, in this universe, we want the Humans to survive so we can experiment with creating a utopian society that could eventually yield us a replacement for the Brahmans. Oh, and could you isolate Sol here?"
The Shivans then "let" the Humans succeed at Good Luck (or at least gave the Humans a good chance).
To this end, either Vishnu or Shiva may have given "hints" to one Terran pilot. Not only would this have helped the Humans survive... remember that Alpha 1 ended up in Sol. His insights appear to have helped Mandho and the elders organize Ubuntu- in fact, he seems to have been among the founders of the Fedayeen.
I've not read through all the posts but as some food for thought regarding heat disappation...
As we all know, energy cannot be used but only transformed from one form to another. So, we have the heat energy given off by beam weapons overloading. Why not convert the heat energy, into kinetic energy to turn a dynamo which can in turn transfer the kinetic energy back into electrical energy to power the jump drives, or to provide more power to other systems. (whether this is realistic/possible... perhaps someone could shed some light here)
As a thought for the above, maybe the UEF could take the above principle as it reverse engineers parts of the Carthage and the logistics ship that were captured, and put the above theory into practice for a new UEF Super Destroyer which could turn the tide of battle against the GTVA.
Discuss! :)
Or perhaps the Ancient records themselves are Nagari-capable. The Ancients had no idea who would stumble across their dying message, or how they might communicate--it's only logical that they'd encode their findings in every way they knew how. It's similar to our own problems marking nuclear dump sites (http://www.damninteresting.com/this-place-is-not-a-place-of-honor/). Nagari would be an ideal option, since there's no language barrier--your quantum computer sends out a message saying "danger" and the recipient's brain translates it as "danger" in whatever concept they possess.The commentary on the Ancients cutscenes raises an interesting question. If Alpha 1 is picking these visions up via Nagari, who's transmitting them? Are they simply "residual signals" from the Ancients themselves? Is some other power deliberately sending him these messages?
Perhaps an entity along the lines of ken. Some anima probing around and transmitting information at things to see what happens. [/blatant conjecture]
In any case; Yay for more Battuta posts!:D
As we all know, energy cannot be used but only transformed from one form to another. So, we have the heat energy given off by beam weapons overloading. Why not convert the heat energy, into kinetic energy to turn a dynamo which can in turn transfer the kinetic energy back into electrical energy to power the jump drives, or to provide more power to other systems. (whether this is realistic/possible... perhaps someone could shed some light here)
This is based on the assumption that the power requirements for running the beams is minimal compared to operating the subspace jump drives. Personally I feel the assumption is justified but your mileage may vary. The rate of fire of beam cannons is probably more limited by the amount of waste heat they produce, than the total energy production limits by the shipboard reactors.I don't think that assumption holds in Blue Planet canon; or, at least, not for TEI beams.
Producing heat (energy in general) in a space ship is typically much less of a problem than getting rid of it. Thermoregulation is troublesome in a vacuum, even in deep space with 2.8 Kelvin background temperature.I agree with that, dissipation is the biggest problem.
The idea of recycling some of the waste energy (heat) from the beam turrets is a neat idea, but personally I feel like the FreeSpace universe is on a tech level where energy production is not really a problem, they can just make more.Using some of your waste heat to generate power isn't to stupid, since your efficiency rises.(as long as waste heat is in a useable state, eg. low entropy) Less fuel requirements and therefor a longer deploy time for warships until they need to be refueled. Also assuming the efficiency of a turret is at only 50-75%. Besides: The heat is on your ship, anyway. You have to get rid of it either way, why not use it? Heat sinks and such remain the same, the only thing added to your ship is a rather small generator section integrated into the cooling system.
With that kind of on-demand power generation ability, I think something like capacitor or battery banks for storing the surplus energy would be a waste of space and mass on their capital ships, which could be taken by heatsinks, radiator arrays, and armour.You will always need high performance energy storage systems in high power environments. Even if you're able to produce the burst power for your weapon systems, that energy has to travel through your power grid and the output of your reactors has to react on sudden energy consumers such as beam weapons. This takes time in which the voltage drops significantly on your power grid. (lets assume we use electricity) Nowdays, capacitors prevent this by storing small amounts of energy and filling the gaps, should the voltage drop. They respond very fast, faster than any power source could, because the charge is already available in electrons. No conversion from chemical to electrical energy needed as with batteries.
This is based on the assumption that the power requirements for running the beams is minimal compared to operating the subspace jump drives.Since the original post says "Charging a jump drive is an expensive operation, and it oftens demands enough of a warship's power to negatively impact combat performance." I'd say beams are not minimal in power usage.
This is based on the assumption that the power requirements for running the beams is minimal compared to operating the subspace jump drives.Since the original post says "Charging a jump drive is an expensive operation, and it oftens demands enough of a warship's power to negatively impact combat performance." I'd say beams are not minimal in power usage.
If the beam's power consumption was trivial in comparison to the jump drive, diverting power from the charging operation to firing a beam wouldn't significantly slow it down, and therefore charging the jump drives would not negatively impact combat performance... or so the reasoning presumably goes.This is based on the assumption that the power requirements for running the beams is minimal compared to operating the subspace jump drives.Since the original post says "Charging a jump drive is an expensive operation, and it oftens demands enough of a warship's power to negatively impact combat performance." I'd say beams are not minimal in power usage.
This is far more an indicator of the power draw of the jump drive than it is of the beams.
Using some of your waste heat to generate power isn't to stupid, since your efficiency rises.(as long as waste heat is in a useable state, eg. low entropy) Less fuel requirements and therefor a longer deploy time for warships until they need to be refueled. Also assuming the efficiency of a turret is at only 50-75%. Besides: The heat is on your ship, anyway. You have to get rid of it either way, why not use it? Heat sinks and such remain the same, the only thing added to your ship is a rather small generator section integrated into the cooling system.You can't "get rid of" heat, as per the second law of thermodynamics. It can only be moved around. That's how thermoelectric generators function: power is extracted from the thermal gradient between a heat sink and a cold sink as they equalize. Maintaining the cold sink requires work, which in turn generates more waste heat, which in turn increases the amount of work required to maintain the cold sink. See Atomic Rockets (http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/thermodynamics.php).
You can't "get rid of" heat, as per the second law of thermodynamics. It can only be moved around.Thanks for the lesson but you basically repeated my own words. I'd recommend you read my previous post (the LARGE one here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86710.msg1773784#msg1773784 ).
You said it, and then you immediately forgot and concluded that 24th century starships must recycle energy simply because the technology exists today. Waste heat is the biggest concern for a spacefaring vessel, and doubly so for a spacefaring warship. You continually produce it, you don't have the mass to absorb it, you can't shake it via convection, radiation is slow and presents a massive vulnerability; handwaving with "it's the future so it isn't a problem" doesn't cut it.You can't "get rid of" heat, as per the second law of thermodynamics. It can only be moved around.Thanks for the lesson but you basically repeated my own words. I'd recommend you read my previous post (the LARGE one here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86710.msg1773784#msg1773784 ).
Since it seems like you got some insight I'd like to hear recommendations on my actual statement to this topic and not just a single reply with no context. :)
*EDIT: It is possible to dissipate heat through the ships hull. However, only the "night side" of the ship can be used, obviously. It's unlikely that battleships carry vast amounts of coolant around which they dump into space after it's used. Maybe just for emergencies like crash jumps or in the 4th War in Heaven mission, where the GTD Meridian does so. Probably to crash jump as well.
heat management is probably part of the logistics chain: when you get too hot, you just dock with a station or dedicated freighter, cycle coolant and transfer the heat to their heat sinks, and go back to killing Shivans or Zods or whatever.That is a very interesting concept not many people think about, actually. Combined with active systems which cool your coolant and dump heat into big, insulated heat buffer.
handwaving with "it's the future so it isn't a problem" doesn't cut it.I agree with that statement, there must be a reasonable explanation otherwise your SiFi setting either breaks the fourth wall or it's pure fiction. But is't still science fiction. Assuming better methods to radiate heat away, for example, isn't such a crime. To support the story or playability as long as it's not the biggest bogus anyone ever constructed.
can i just remind everyone that ships in BP have a speed limit of sixty miles an hour and shoot lasers that travel slower than bullets
can i just remind everyone that ships in BP have a speed limit of sixty miles an hour and shoot lasers that travel slower than bullets
If it's possible to establish a temperature gradient between normal space and subspace (subspace being at lower temperature), and keep that connection stable, it should be not only possible to dump extra heat into subspace, but to make the process output work.
I think it might actually be possible for FreeSpace tech to dump thermal energy into subspace.Haha, I think the BP tech entry for the BFRed alludes to something like that for that particular beam.
the shivans are actually radical environmentalists trying to halt the process of subspacial warming at all costs
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i've become drew karpyshyn
Yup:I think it might actually be possible for FreeSpace tech to dump thermal energy into subspace.Haha, I think the BP tech entry for the BFRed alludes to something like that for that particular beam.
Alliance analysts have no explanation for this weapons system. The Sathanas' main beam cannons discharge kilotons of magnetically confined plasma at .9998 lightspeed. They are capable of continuous fire without overheating. It is unclear where the heat goes, leading GTI analysts to the unsettling conclusion that these weapons are not compatible with thermodynamics as we understand it. It is possible that waste heat is somehow shunted into subspace, or that the Shivans use quantum sleight-of-hand to process the heat out of local space. No allied warship can survive engagement with one of these weapons. Current GTVA tactical doctrine calls for concentrated bomber strikes to destroy these weapons before they can be brought to bear on allied capital ships.(Which means that, in BP canon at least, GTVA warships do not shunt their waste heat into subspace.)
I hope everyone enjoys reading these ideas! :)
1) If the Shivans are dumping their heat into subspace are they also drawing their power from subspace?
2) Are they also recycling their energy back into the beams already to maintain the firerate they can pull off?Exotic materials or rather elements:
(sorry... can't remember the actual crew compliment of an Orion).I think it's 10000.
The Hecate is ten thousand, but I don't think there are any canon references to the crew compliment of the Orion.(sorry... can't remember the actual crew compliment of an Orion).I think it's 10000.
I'm pretty sure I recall reading about hypotheses concerning a threshold after which high-mass synthetic elements should become stable again, but I don't have a citation nor a solid understanding of the concepts involved.2) Are they also recycling their energy back into the beams already to maintain the firerate they can pull off?Exotic materials or rather elements:
Less likely. We discovered every presumable stable element in the periodic table, already. There are no other ways to combine electrons, protons and neutrons to form new ones.
Pardon! There are...
In theory you can just up the number of protons until you discover a new element but they are all not stable and break down to simpler and stable elements within micro- and even just nanoseconds. Oh and they emit an unhealthy amount of particle radiation in the process. Exotic elements are rather unlikely and I could slap any sifi series which invents stuff like naquadah which magically turns into naquadriah because of "quantum events"? (Sorry, Stargate is not bad but come on people... do your research ^^)
You survived your first sortie against the Shivans. Though we had only a small opposing force to contend with, survival is half the battle. Tragically, the 10,000 men and women on board the Carthage were not so lucky. As a unit, we must accept the blame for this catastrophe. Had we fought harder, we could have saved that destroyer. A service for the dead will be held at 0100 hours on Deck 36.The Dashor (a Sobek) is also mentioned to have a crew of 6,000 when destroyed. Freespace ships are big. I swear there's a reference to the Fenris having 3,000 somewhere...
The GTC Orff was destroyed during your watch. Dozens of lives were lost due to your poor performance. This catastrophe will surely result in an increased Vasudan presence in the system.
There is no place for you in the GTA. You are dismissed.
The Hecate is ten thousand, but I don't think there are any canon references to the crew compliment of the Orion.I checked back and canon reference for the Orions crew is also present in "Feint! Parry! Riposte!", where the admiral Koth tries to ram the GTVA Colossus with his Orion, the NTD Repulse.
I'm pretty sure I recall reading about hypotheses concerning a threshold after which high-mass synthetic elements should become stable again, but I don't have a citation nor a solid understanding of the concepts involved.That sounds quite interesting and could make some explanations possible. Still, those elements wouldn't exist naturally. However, it always harms a sifi setting if it tries to explain the technology of a highly advanced species.
If a Type 2 civilization wants to use exotic matter to shoot weaponized dimensional holes that rearrange fermions into identical quantum states, you don't tell them no.HAHA! Yeah they just do it, I guess. They don't care if they rip holes in the fabric of space-time, they just do it. ^^ Shivans are physics douchebags! >:C
It might be possible in the 24th century, that storing heat energy needs not necessarily to be performed in a "chemical way" (i.e. by forming molecule bindings out of single elements), but in an "atomic way" (i.e. by forming heavy elements out of light ones). Those heavy elements (e.g. lead) could simply be dumped in space, or even be fed into locally stored particle weaponry ammunition (which would all "solve" the problem of unwanted nuclear waste).
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3. In contrast to the proposed large-surfaced (and hence fragile) heat radiation subsystems, it can be installed inside the ship and is therefore protected against weapon fire.
Are you proposing some sort of transmutation or chemical process that is endothermic and thus absorbs the excess waste heat into some sort of physical product that could easily be dumped as exhaust? That is a thermal management method that I've not considered before.
I suspect that you would still run up against entropy effects in the same way that entropy decreases the efficiency of a heat engine with a low temperature gradient. If nothing else, you would eventually run out of the raw materials of your transmutation process, and have to resupply. That makes it about the same as exchanging your hot heat sinks, or hot coolant with cold ones at a base or logistics ship.
Evaporative cooling technically is exactly this, although it relies on the latent energy associated to phase change from liquid to gas rather than other similar systems. Heat causes a physical reaction - in this case a phase change - and the energy is stored in the coolant medium's new phase configuration.
The only way you could ever possibly use raw heat to do this is if you could somehow heat the iron into a plasma, and increase temperature and pressure to such an extent that the collisions between iron nuclei would be sufficient to fuse them into heavier elements. Now, technically, this would work - the energy of the plasma would get stored into heavier elements, and the process certainly would absorb heat. It would also probably produce radioactive nuclei, not that it's much of a problem if you can manage the intense gamma radiation that would come from the incredibly hot plasma in the first place.
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Just saying. :p An endothermic chemical reaction may be a better solution...
I think that if you have enough spare power for a sustained endothermic fusion reaction, you'd probably save even more waste heat by simply downgrading your main reactor.
My understanding is that subspace is the quantum septic-tank of inconveniences in the universe, everything that goes there turns into a protanopia rainbow.By ignoring the stupid numbers like that one.
I want to know, given the ridiculous firepower of the mx-50 (16.5 Kt!), how are they gonna handle atmospheric fighting in act 4?
Yup:I think it might actually be possible for FreeSpace tech to dump thermal energy into subspace.Haha, I think the BP tech entry for the BFRed alludes to something like that for that particular beam.QuoteAlliance analysts have no explanation for this weapons system. The Sathanas' main beam cannons discharge kilotons of magnetically confined plasma at .9998 lightspeed. They are capable of continuous fire without overheating. It is unclear where the heat goes, leading GTI analysts to the unsettling conclusion that these weapons are not compatible with thermodynamics as we understand it. It is possible that waste heat is somehow shunted into subspace, or that the Shivans use quantum sleight-of-hand to process the heat out of local space. No allied warship can survive engagement with one of these weapons. Current GTVA tactical doctrine calls for concentrated bomber strikes to destroy these weapons before they can be brought to bear on allied capital ships.(Which means that, in BP canon at least, GTVA warships do not shunt their waste heat into subspace.)
My understanding is that subspace is the quantum septic-tank of inconveniences in the universe, everything that goes there turns into a protanopia rainbow.By ignoring the stupid numbers like that one.
I want to know, given the ridiculous firepower of the mx-50 (16.5 Kt!), how are they gonna handle atmospheric fighting in act 4?
The videos that have been posted involved tanks, fighters, and ground facilities.
In space however, energy dissipation of a "shockwave type" (i.e. kinetic) could only apply to the few actual components of the bomb (casing, core etc.). That means that in space, most energy of a nuclear explosion is just radiated away (also because there is nothing which could absorb the radiation), while only a small amount of it results in a (probably very high) acceleration of the bomb's fragments.Well, don't forget the expanding gas of your warhead. All your TNT turns to gas during it's reaction phase and that gas usually expands at sound-speed if it's in a vacuum. (Note: Sound speed for this one specific gas, it can be far more or even less than just 330m/s) So you'd still have an kinetic effect with a hot particle wave hitting your hull.
The same applies for a (hypothetical) TNT detonation in space, but as the radiation of such an explosion is of much less energy, the relative fraction of kinetic energy "blown away" should be much higher there.
Intelligent tracking similar to GTA targeting system - prior to launch, communicates with ship computer, gathering data about enemy target types and whereabouts - slow, low maneuverability - antimatter warhead (500 tonne3 mass-to-energy conversion) - due to instability of antimatter, no more than 10 may be carried on board a GTA bomber at any given time, unless pilot is granted a special permit by an appropriate governing body.500t mass to energy. First of all, it is pretty clear that this bomb does not weigh 500 tonnes! But it would have to for this yield. Antimatter and matter explosions convert their full mass to energy in form of radiation. Electromagnetic radiation. Let's do the math, here:
There is atmospheric combat in Act 4, and I can guarantee that the ordnance thrown around doesn't have a payload anywhere near 16.5KT. Whenever FS (especially FS1) tries to throw around numbers, they're nonsensical, and we're ignoring them completely.Which is a good thing to do. Hit an F15 or B2 bomber with a Hiroshima Bomb at point blank range (10m) and ignore the shockwave in your calculations. Just take the heat from that explosion. You'd still end with a puddle of molten metal. I'm sure a GTF Hercules wouldn't react differently if the MX-50 really had 16kt. ^^
A TNT explosion would release the same amount of energy in space as it would in atmosphere. The only difference is how that energy is transferred. And I see no reason to assume explosive kiloton measurements aren't in TNT.
There is atmospheric combat in Act 4, and I can guarantee that the ordnance thrown around doesn't have a payload anywhere near 16.5KT. Whenever FS (especially FS1) tries to throw around numbers, they're nonsensical, and we're ignoring them completely. If you really want a ballpark figure for the power for a typical anti-fighter missile, assume something close to modern air-surface antitank missiles like the Kh-25 or the AGM-65.
So? The production of WMDs isn't a problem. Both the GTVA and UEF have 0 problems doing it. That isn't why they aren't being used (much). Both parties are trying to avoid civilian casualties. Throwing nukes around in atmosphere isn't a way of accomplishing that. They could do it. They don't want to for the same reason the USA isn't throwing nukes around the Middle-East. But the Shivans would.A TNT explosion would release the same amount of energy in space as it would in atmosphere. The only difference is how that energy is transferred. And I see no reason to assume explosive kiloton measurements aren't in TNT.
There is atmospheric combat in Act 4, and I can guarantee that the ordnance thrown around doesn't have a payload anywhere near 16.5KT. Whenever FS (especially FS1) tries to throw around numbers, they're nonsensical, and we're ignoring them completely. If you really want a ballpark figure for the power for a typical anti-fighter missile, assume something close to modern air-surface antitank missiles like the Kh-25 or the AGM-65.
You have a fair amount of BPs canon to rewrite then I am afraid. Between the mass production of antimatter warheads and the absurd 100 gigaton Shivan beam weapons I would just stick to the stupid numbers and pretend that they are shaped charges tbh.
I should also note while i am occupying that pedantry corner - the bulk of the damage caused by any explosion in atmosphere is caused by the overpressure wave. Not by the fireball or flash. As such, a nuclear explosion in space is actually much more like a high energy radiation bombardment than an explosion. This is especially true of antimatter bombs which deliver virtually all of their energy in the form of photons.Which is why it would actually be better to deliver considerably more antimatter than matter towards a target, so that the former can directly react with the target's hull... But, of course, that's not the point here.
The result would be an extremely quick flash followed by a rapid heating/ablation of the targets outer layers. The actual explosion itself would not be that big - the fireball would mostly be absent as it would simply be the missile components flash vapourising.
Larger explosions would force the radiation to have a harder edge and would blast layers off the target. Provided you had adequate methods for cooling or ablating damaged hull sections it isnt that hard to deal with nukes in space.
I should also note while i am occupying that pedantry corner - the bulk of the damage caused by any explosion in atmosphere is caused by the overpressure wave. Not by the fireball or flash. As such, a nuclear explosion in space is actually much more like a high energy radiation bombardment than an explosion. This is especially true of antimatter bombs which deliver virtually all of their energy in the form of photons.Which is why it would actually be better to deliver considerably more antimatter than matter towards a target, so that the former can directly react with the target's hull... But, of course, that's not the point here.
The result would be an extremely quick flash followed by a rapid heating/ablation of the targets outer layers. The actual explosion itself would not be that big - the fireball would mostly be absent as it would simply be the missile components flash vapourising.
Larger explosions would force the radiation to have a harder edge and would blast layers off the target. Provided you had adequate methods for cooling or ablating damaged hull sections it isnt that hard to deal with nukes in space.
The advantage antimatter has over fusion weaponry, purely hypothetically, is mass and energy density. A weapon the size of Tsar Bomba (27 metric tons for which a sizeable amount was the fusion explosive itself) requires no trigger, generates purely hard radiation and is over 1,000 times more destructive. A 27 tonne antimatter explosion would be in the mid gigaton range.Oh yes, a 27 metric tons to energy conversion is very big:
Okay, so basically reflectivity is a function of the electron density of the target material. The more electron dense the material, the more reflective it is to a given wavelength. The problem with antimatter explosions and space based nuclear explosions is that they are primarily neutron radiation or hard xray or gamma radiation. Neutron radiation cannot be deflected by anything other than nuclear density within a target and almost always causes secondary fission or fusion of heavy materials. Hard xray and gamma radiation is staggeringly hard to reflect.A material which reflects any wavelength of the electromagnetic spectrum? Good luck in finding that. As Rheyah said, neutron radiation is a big problem. If you're able to deal with that, good, but there's still a cocktail of electromagnetic radiation. Gamma, x-ray, microwaves, infra red and even visible light. Reflecting all of these is virtually impossible and your material will always absorb a percentage of that radiation. Your hull heats up and incinerates eventually. Especially with those ridiculous values like "500 metric tons mass to energy". Volition meant it well and back in the 90s such values were fancy. Don't take them for granted, though. :)
But think about this: Warheads in FreeSpace only damage a spaceship properly if they directly hit the hull. If you shoot them just meters away from the hull the damage by the shockwave is trivial.
Yes, the shockwave is gone but these warheads only damage the ship upon contact.
Like I said. Your own tech room gives Shivan beams gigaton payloads. I don't think you realize just how damaging a relativistic particle beam actually is. When we do it experimentally (we accelerate particle beams to around 40-50 MeV by explosive radiation pressure acceleration) we dump 50-500J into a solid target size less than 10 microns across and 10 nanometers deep and the resulting shockwave explosively disassociates the target. If a human was stood in that room, they would receive a fatal dose of radiation poisoning in a fraction of a second, even standing off axis.I don't see the problem. That's the tech entry for the goddamn BFRed. That thing chews through anything and everything in a matter of seconds. Why are you assuming it tells you anything about the firepower of GTVA ships?
The resulting particle beam scaled up to the sizes you're talking about (kilotons of plasma slurry) is over 200 megatons a second.
That's at 50 MeV. Human achievable. Shivan beam weapons, according to your tech room, is several hundred times more powerful than that.
If you are gonna go with that (I don't know why you would rip up such cool figures, but it's your mod) then you need to scale those beams down hugely. By a factor of a million or more. I am not being a knob when I say this, I hope, but when you say that FS1/2 throw around nonsense figures and that BP ignores them and all someone has to do is look up your own tech entry and there are figures even more ridiculous, it just seems... a bit off.
I'm sorry if I sound like a dick for saying it. I really am. I am just really pedantic about acceleration science. I work with this stuff all day. For what its worth I think a narrative where every ship in the GTVA fleet isn't capable of singlehandedly wiping out planets is probably a good thing. I just have to be pedantic about tech entries.
The offending tech entry can be instantly resolved by replacing kilotons with tons and the offending lightspeed quote with "relativistic". Relativistic in physics terms just means anything between 0.3c and about 0.9c. Super relativistic and ultra relativistic are much higher, gamma factors of 10-100+.
Like I said. Your own tech room gives Shivan beams gigaton payloads. I don't think you realize just how damaging a relativistic particle beam actually is.
I don't see the problem. That's the tech entry for the goddamn BFRed. That thing chews through anything and everything in a matter of seconds. Why are you assuming it tells you anything about the firepower of GTVA ships?Well, what I think the problem is that, from an ingame perspective, it takes more than a fraction of a second for a single of these planet-cracker-per-salvo thing to rip appart/vaporize ships bigger than corvettes. Yes it is beyond anything the GTVA has, but something with even a fraction of the firepower described in the techroom would still appear to be so by quite a margin. In any case, it's just a silly bit of techroom weapon trivia.
The BFRed is far, far, far beyond anything the GTVA can do. It's beyond lighter Shivan beams. It's the end-all be-all of direct fire weaponry. Stop assuming other beams are anywhere near it.
I do wonder though, what would actually happen if a kiloton of something hit a planet at that speed.Here is fun read about a 200 feet-wide diamond hitting the Earth at various speed: https://what-if.xkcd.com/20/
Amusingly those BFRed numbers aren't totally of the charts at the first look; the kinetic energy is at least 8 orders of magnitude below the death star, and the unobtanium the sathanases are made of needs to be only a bit denser than iridium for the recoil to not be a problem.With some numbercrunching, 1 metric tonne at 0.9998c = 4.50023e24J, or a bit over a petaton. The dinosaurs were killed by a 120 teraton impact. Suffice to say such an attack would end all life on earth, consistent with Shivan bombardment. Twenty or so Sathanases blowing off the atmosphere instantly.
I do wonder though, what would actually happen if a kiloton of something hit a planet at that speed.
I knew there must be a xkcd what if on the subject, thanks for finding it! :)I do wonder though, what would actually happen if a kiloton of something hit a planet at that speed.Here is fun read about a 200 feet-wide diamond hitting the Earth at various speed: https://what-if.xkcd.com/20/
I have no idea how big it actually is, or how much it weighs, but the end results are pretty funny nevertheless :)
Anyway yeah, those number are too large, but they're surprisingly close to what we know Shivans are capable of, considering what Lucifer did to Vasuda and what Earth looked like in AoA. If they were an order of magnitude or two smaller, say at γ = 2, I'd call them perfectly in sync with other insane FS physics.