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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: jr2 on February 11, 2014, 04:00:11 pm

Title: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: jr2 on February 11, 2014, 04:00:11 pm
From http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2014/01/29/epas-wood-burning-stove-ban-has-chilling-consequences-for-many-rural-people/


EPA's Wood-Burning Stove Ban Has Chilling Consequences For Many Rural People

It seems that even wood isn’t green or renewable enough anymore.  The EPA has recently banned the production and sale of 80 percent of America’s current wood-burning stoves, the oldest heating method known to mankind and mainstay of rural homes and many of our nation’s poorest residents. The agency’s stringent one-size-fits-all rules apply equally to heavily air-polluted cities and far cleaner plus typically colder off-grid wilderness areas such as large regions of Alaska and the American West.

While EPA’s most recent regulations aren’t altogether new, their impacts will nonetheless be severe.  Whereas restrictions had previously banned wood-burning stoves that didn’t limit fine airborne particulate emissions to 15 micrograms per cubic meter of air, the change will impose a maximum 12 microgram limit. To put this amount in context, EPA estimates (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/4/epa-s-chilling-effect/) that secondhand tobacco smoke in a closed car can expose a person to 3,000-4,000 micrograms of particulates per cubic meter.

Most wood stoves that warm cabin and home residents from coast-to-coast can’t meet that standard. Older stoves that don’t cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal.

The impacts of EPA’s ruling will affect many families. According to the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2011 survey statistics, 2.4 million American housing units (12 percent of all homes) burned wood as their primary heating fuel, compared with 7 percent that depended upon fuel oil.

Local governments in some states have gone even further  than EPA, not only banning the sale of noncompliant stoves, but even their use as fireplaces. As a result, owners face fines for infractions. Puget Sound, Washington is one such location.   Montréal, Canada proposes to eliminate all fireplaces within its city limits.

Only weeks after EPA enacted its new stove rules, attorneys general of seven states sued the agency to crack down on wood-burning water heaters as well. The lawsuit was filed by Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont, all predominately Democrat states.  Claiming that EPA’s new regulations didn’t go far enough to decrease particle pollution levels, the plaintiffs cited agency estimates that outdoor wood boilers will produce more than 20 percent of wood-burning emissions by 2017. A related suit was filed by the environmental group Earth Justice.

Did EPA require a motivational incentive to tighten its restrictions? Sure, about as much as Br’er Rabbit needed to persuade Br’er Fox to throw him into the briar patch. This is but another example of EPA and other government agencies working with activist environmental groups to sue and settle on claims that afford leverage to enact new regulations which they lack statutory authority to otherwise accomplish.

“Sue and settle “ practices, sometimes referred to as “friendly lawsuits”, are cozy deals through which far-left radical environmental groups file lawsuits against federal agencies wherein  court-ordered “consent decrees” are issued based upon a prearranged settlement agreement they collaboratively craft together in advance behind closed doors. Then, rather than allowing the entire process to play out, the agency being sued settles the lawsuit by agreeing to move forward with the requested action both they and the litigants want.

And who pays for this litigation? All-too-often we taxpayers are put on the hook for legal fees of both colluding parties. According to a 2011 GAO report (http://washingtonexaminer.com/public-interest-group-sues-epa-for-foia-delays-claims-agency-ordered-officials-to-ignore-requests/article/2519881), this amounted to millions of dollars awarded to environmental organizations for EPA litigations between 1995 and 2010. Three “Big Green” groups received 41% of this payback, with Earthjustice accounting for 30 percent ($4,655,425).  Two other organizations with histories of lobbying for regulations EPA wants while also receiving agency funding are the American Lung Association (ALA) and the Sierra Club.

In addition, the Department of Justice forked over at least $43 million of our money defending EPA in court between 1998 and 2010. This didn’t include money spent by EPA for their legal costs in connection with those rip-offs because EPA doesn’t keep track of their attorney’s time on a case-by-case basis.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce (http://www.uschamber.com/sites/default/files/reports/1207_ETRA_HazeReport_lr.pdf) has concluded that Sue and Settle rulemaking is responsible for many of EPA’s “most controversial, economically significant regulations that have plagued the business community for the past few years”. Included are regulations on power plants, refineries, mining operations, cement plants, chemical manufacturers, and a host of other industries. Such consent decree-based rulemaking enables EPA to argue to Congress: “The court made us do it.

Directing special attention to these congressional end run practices, Louisiana Senator David Vitter, top Republican on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, has launched an investigation. Last year he asked his Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell to join with AGs of 13 other states who filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) seeking all correspondence between EPA and a list of 80 environmental, labor union and public interest organizations that have been party to litigation since the start of the Obama administration.

Other concerned and impacted parties have little influence over such court procedures and decisions. While the environmental group is given a seat at the table, outsiders who are most impacted are excluded, with no opportunity to object to the settlements. No public notice about the settlement is released until the agreement is filed in court…after the damage has been done.

In a letter to Caldwell, Senator Vitter wrote (http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/17/epas-secret-and-costly-sue-and-settle-collusion-with-environmental-organizations/): “The collusion between federal bureaucrats and the organizations entering consent agreements under a shroud of secrecy represents the antithesis of a transparent government, and your participation in the FOIA request will help Louisianans understand the process by which these settlements were reached.

Fewer citizens would challenge EPA’s regulatory determinations were it not for its lack of accountability and transparency in accomplishing through a renegade pattern of actions what they cannot achieve through democratic legislative processes.

A recent example sets unachievable CO2 emission limits for new power plants. As I reported (http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2014/01/14/clean-air-act-epas-charade-to-justify-war-on-coal-plants/) in my January 14 column, a group within EPA’s own Science Advisory Board (SAB) determined that the studies upon which that regulation was based had never been responsibly peer reviewed, and that there was no evidence that those limits can be accomplished using available technology.

Compared with huge consequences of EPA’s regulatory war on coal, the fuel source that provides more than 40 percent of America’s electricity, a clamp-down on humble residential wood-burning stoves and future water heaters may seem to many people as a merely a trifling or  inconsequential matter. That is, unless it happens to significantly affect your personal life.

As a Washington Times editorial (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/4/epa-s-chilling-effect/) emphasized, the ban is of great concern to many families in cold remote off-grid locations. It noted, for example, that “Alaska’s 663,000 square miles is mostly forestland, offering residents and abundant source of affordable firewood. When county officials floated a plan to regulate the burning of wood, residents were understandably inflamed.

Quoting Representative Tammie Wilson speaking to the Associated Press, the Times reported: “Everyone wants clean air. We just want to make sure that we can also heat our homes” Wilson continued: “Rather than fret over EPA’s computer – model – based warning about the dangers of inhaling soot from wood smoke, residents have more pressing concerns on their minds as the immediate risk of freezing when the mercury plunges.

And speaking of theoretical computer model-based warnings, where’s that global warming when we really need it?
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: StarSlayer on February 11, 2014, 04:26:20 pm
From http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2014/01/29/epas-wood-burning-stove-ban-has-chilling-consequences-for-many-rural-people/


EPA's Wood-Burning Stove Ban Has Chilling Consequences For Many Rural People

It seems that even wood isn’t green or renewable enough anymore.  The EPA has recently banned the production and sale of 80 percent of America’s current wood-burning stoves, the oldest heating method known to mankind and mainstay of rural homes and many of our nation’s poorest residents. The agency’s stringent one-size-fits-all rules apply equally to heavily air-polluted cities and far cleaner plus typically colder off-grid wilderness areas such as large regions of Alaska and the American West.

While EPA’s most recent regulations aren’t altogether new, their impacts will nonetheless be severe.  Whereas restrictions had previously banned wood-burning stoves that didn’t limit fine airborne particulate emissions to 15 micrograms per cubic meter of air, the change will impose a maximum 12 microgram limit. To put this amount in context, EPA estimates (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/4/epa-s-chilling-effect/) that secondhand tobacco smoke in a closed car can expose a person to 3,000-4,000 micrograms of particulates per cubic meter.

Most wood stoves that warm cabin and home residents from coast-to-coast can’t meet that standard. Older stoves that don’t cannot be traded in for updated types, but instead must be rendered inoperable, destroyed, or recycled as scrap metal.

A few years back the safety features on propane tanks for grills were updated.  The old style tanks were no longer sold and could no longer be refilled with the updated pumping hardware.  Manufacturers adjusted and produced propane tanks that met the new standard.  Car companies occasionally need to update their vehicle lines to meet new emissions or safety standards.  If you already have a wood stove then you have one, if you need a new one then it will be one built to meet the new guidelines.  It's not that big a deal.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Lorric on February 11, 2014, 04:28:16 pm
I can't imagine how they would actually enforce such a thing to take people's stoves. They might shut down production, but would they really go so far as to take people's stoves?

Sure, about as much as Br’er Rabbit needed to persuade Br’er Fox to throw him into the briar patch.
I just got to say, damn, you are taking me back with that one... :lol:

Br’er Rabbit and Br’er Fox...
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Ghostavo on February 11, 2014, 04:29:24 pm
And speaking of theoretical computer model-based warnings, where’s that global warming when we really need it?

I know that the author is probably saying this tongue-in-cheek, but seeing the state of affairs in the US regarding this issue, it's kind of irresponsible for a major publication to say this.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: StarSlayer on February 11, 2014, 04:31:20 pm
This article seems to be a scary news tease leading into a ***** rant about the EPA and environmentalism in general.  Two thirds of the article has nothing to do with its title which itself is rather misleading.  From the title, you'd expect the Gestapo was going to break into peoples homes and make off with everyone's stove :P
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: MP-Ryan on February 11, 2014, 04:34:01 pm
Quote
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has concluded that Sue and Settle rulemaking is responsible for many of EPA’s “most controversial, economically significant regulations that have plagued the business community for the past few years”. Included are regulations on power plants, refineries, mining operations, cement plants, chemical manufacturers, and a host of other industries

Awww, that's too bad.  Guess what else all of those industries had/have in common - major polluting effects.  Stringent regulation of those sectors is absolutely necessary, but there's no way it would be enacted through Congress in the broken US political system because of the power wielded by lobbying and special interests.

It's no surprise that a columnist at Forbes is thrashing the EPA; the EPA consistently manages to be one agency that is not entirely beholden to the "but the economy!" bull**** that gets thrown at Congress.

Nevertheless, it appears to new limits are achievable with a technological upgrade (new stove!), and the particulate reduction is an important step.  The fact that the author compares wood burning stoves to cigarette smoke particulates is particularly telling; the particulate types differ, and the objectives of regulation differs as well.  It's further telling that the author seems to be tilting at the windmill of coal-fired generation regulation too, when coal is singularly the dirtiest source of energy in the United States and a major source of air, land, and water pollution.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Grizzly on February 11, 2014, 04:46:24 pm
Quote
'It's further telling that the author seems to be tilting at the windmill of coal-fired generation regulation too, when coal is singularly the dirtiest source of energy in the United States and a major source of air, land, and water pollution.

If the US public knew how much radioactive particles coal plants release each year...
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Scourge of Ages on February 11, 2014, 07:03:24 pm
Here's something I've been wanting to say for at least three articles now: It's not a professional Forbes article if there's "sites/' in the url. That means it's written by a contributor, who does not need to conform to standards of accuracy or taste.

Quote from: cracked.com, is that ironic?
Oh, and do you still recognize Forbes as the highbrow magazine for investor types? Because guess what: Their website now hosts hundreds of unedited blogs from random, often unpaid writers off the street. (http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-stories/173743/what-the-forbes-model-of-contributed-content-means-for-journalism/) Seriously, you can write for them if you want. (http://blogs.forbes.com/help/how-do-i-become-a-contributor/) So now any time you see a Forbes.com story and the URL has "sites/(some dude's name here)" in the middle, you're not reading a news story from professional Forbes reporters/editors, you're reading a blog post from some random person. That's why you can see a "Forbes" article claiming that a majority of scientists doubt global warming (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/) -- in reality, it's a press release written by a shill for the Heartland Institute, an oil-industry-funded group that ran billboards comparing environmentalists to serial killers. (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/09/local/la-me-gs-unabomber-billboard-continues-to-hurt-heartland-institute-20120509)

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-easy-ways-to-spot-b.s.-news-story-internet/#ixzz2t437KJfa
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Nuke on February 11, 2014, 09:03:09 pm
Quote
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has concluded that Sue and Settle rulemaking is responsible for many of EPA’s “most controversial, economically significant regulations that have plagued the business community for the past few years”. Included are regulations on power plants, refineries, mining operations, cement plants, chemical manufacturers, and a host of other industries

Awww, that's too bad.  Guess what else all of those industries had/have in common - major polluting effects.  Stringent regulation of those sectors is absolutely necessary, but there's no way it would be enacted through Congress in the broken US political system because of the power wielded by lobbying and special interests.

It's no surprise that a columnist at Forbes is thrashing the EPA; the EPA consistently manages to be one agency that is not entirely beholden to the "but the economy!" bull**** that gets thrown at Congress.

Nevertheless, it appears to new limits are achievable with a technological upgrade (new stove!), and the particulate reduction is an important step.  The fact that the author compares wood burning stoves to cigarette smoke particulates is particularly telling; the particulate types differ, and the objectives of regulation differs as well.  It's further telling that the author seems to be tilting at the windmill of coal-fired generation regulation too, when coal is singularly the dirtiest source of energy in the United States and a major source of air, land, and water pollution.

whats really gonna happen is that people, when faced with the need to buy a new stove, are either going to buy one out of country, or build one. after all you can still buy bricks, and you can still convert an oil drum into a wood stove. of course this means stoves will be less efficient (not to mention less safe) rather than more efficient. sure you might be able to drop a large hunk of cash on a high tech low emissions stove if you can afford it. there should be exceptions for people who do not have access to public utilities, because its those people who know how to cobble a stove together with junk.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Dragon on February 11, 2014, 10:02:34 pm
Or they could, you know, keep using the old stove. I don't think that some sort of "stove police" is going to go from door to door and confiscate the old stoves. :)
This sort of regulations make sense in the cities. In Krakow, where I live, old, coal-burning tiled stoves are a serious problem. Partially because people tend to burn various junk in them, and those things are often pre-WWII designs. Their usage is steadily declining and it does translate to a better air in the city, especially in winter. On the other hand, I see no reason for applying the same sort of regulations to the countryside and especially to people who don't have money for anything else. In Krakow, the city heavily subsidizes central heating. If US government actually helped people get new stoves, many probably would do it on their own.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: blowfish on February 11, 2014, 10:15:25 pm
It's not illegal to own a stove.  The article specifically says that this ban is on the "production and sale" of said stoves, not owning and using them, except in specific places which have tighter regulations.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Nuke on February 11, 2014, 11:45:29 pm
thats what that "when faced with the need to buy a new stove" was about. i know they aren't going to come hork your stove. but if you end up needing a stove (for whatever reason) there are still ways about the ban.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: MP-Ryan on February 12, 2014, 12:00:39 am
thats what that "when faced with the need to buy a new stove" was about. i know they aren't going to come hork your stove. but if you end up needing a stove (for whatever reason) there are still ways about the ban.

Just like there are ways around emission standards for vehicles.  But when it comes right down to it, most people will opt for the easiest method - buy the item that meets the standard for a few more bucks rather than try their own construction/modification.  And the whole point in regulating something as "minor" as wood stoves is because the effects are cumulative - meaning that the idea is not necessarily to change over everyone, but to change over enough of the systems in place today over time that it becomes a much smaller cumulative source of emissions.

The point of manufacture/sale regulations is slow change over time, not an overnight revolution in an industry.  And if you don't believe it works, I encourage you to check out what the US has done concerning small engines (lawnmowers, weed eaters, snowblowers, pumps, tractors, etc etc) and their emission standards sometime.  The new regs have dramatically changed the industry, and most consumers haven't even noticed.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Nuke on February 12, 2014, 10:05:21 am
i wouldn't have noticed, i can only afford the 20 year old lawn equipment you find at garage sales and thrift stores.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: jr2 on February 15, 2014, 04:24:30 pm
Well, the thing is, you can't sell your old stove. Although I can't see that being enforceable in the rural areas.

How about instead, a program to update your stoves to get them in spec, or giving you assistance upgrading to a new one, as long as the old one is turned in?
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Dragon on February 15, 2014, 05:10:34 pm
I agree, that's pretty much what my city is doing. Well, you can't "turn in" a tiled stove, but they do something like that with regards to moving from gas-powered water heaters (which tend to be old, too) to central heating. Subsidizing upgrades would make sense here, since combined with regulations on the new stoves it'd bring desired changes about much quicker.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Bobboau on February 15, 2014, 05:40:58 pm
.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Aardwolf on February 15, 2014, 06:43:16 pm
I'm going to assume that's something to the effect of: fireplaces suck because all the heat goes up the chimney; get a jøtul instead?
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Bobboau on February 15, 2014, 08:39:16 pm
no, more like wood fires are just the absolute devil in any and all possible ways.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 15, 2014, 10:28:42 pm
no, more like wood fires are just the absolute devil in any and all possible ways.


Except it depends on the design of the burninator and the quality of the fuel to such a ridiculous degree that it makes that argument pretty questionable.

Open fires (and traditional fireplaces count as these) are horrible and a bad idea, especially in urban areas where the smoke will disperse to the neighbourhood. However, fuel is an ubiquitous energy source and even though it may not be as efficient as oil or gas burners, especially in rural areas it's still a valid supplement to other heating solutions, provided it is burned in a well-designed fireplace. Good fireplaces produce much less particle emissions than traditional fireplaces or stoves.

Ideally some kind of filtering would also be used, but a heating fireplace with long combustion channel decreases the amount of unburned particles and carbon monoxide dramatically already.


The good part in wood is that it's carbon neutral. The bad is the particle emissions. Carbon emissions are bad for the atmosphere in a broad sense, particle emissions are bad for humans and other organisms on a local level. It's a sort of "pick your poison" situation. If these new mandatory stove designs help reduce the carbon emissions of wood, that's a good thing.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: S-99 on February 16, 2014, 12:22:40 am
On basic stove technology.
I was never a big fan of open chimney fire places. It's a lot for their inefficiency, it's more for risk of lighting your house on fire.

I've installed many wood stoves and built chimneys for them over the years.
This was the last stove i managed to get for free for my landlord. And it's just a classic wood burner in all respects, but in a small size.
(http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/086738/086738224260lg.jpg)
Wood stoves have controllable air flow on the stove itself, and the dampener close to the stove in the chimney; wood stoves in general are designed to radiate heat. Chimneys i find really only heat the immediate room with most of the heat and smoke going up the chimney sucking a bunch of cold air through any holes in the house to feed itself.

Aside from the chimney tangent gets down to one of the recent past upgrades to woodstoves. The ones with catalytic converters. Extract more heat from the smoke! I thought i was on board until i found out i can destroy the catalytic converter burning anything with colored ink and any type of glue (that rules out almost all fire starters). That, and getting such a stove up and going properly meant getting the catalytic converter hot enough (pain in my dick). I hate catalytic converter stoves because they take too long to get going without snuffing out your fire if you put the catalytic converter into use slightly prematurely, or destroying your catalytic converter because you had a bunch of totino's pizza boxes around and felt like you'd start the fire with. So yes, i downgraded my old place in north pole alaska with a less advanced stove just to have a much easier time. It used less wood, i could burn all paper and wood products or anything in it, burned just as long as the old stove, and put out just as much heat.

Ballot measure 2
Most stove regulations would indeed change the market for wood stoves which is fine. All the other wood stoves would most likely be grandfathered in (this is very likely). If that isn't offered, then a trade your old stove for new stove might happen (but, this is unlikely). Any locations that demand you upgrade your own stove on your own dollar, or fine you for not is bastardly and doesn't serve the people or the community.

A similar thing was about to happen in north pole alaska. It was mostly prompted by thinking the city's air was too polluted; compared to the rest of america, alaska's air is pretty darn clean. The second thing that prompted it was the local wood pellet factory (this is my opinion here, but i bet it's not far off that superior pellet fuels (http://www.superiorpelletfuels.com/About_Us.html) liked the idea of getting rich fast, and that they had a hand to play in this). North pole government was trying to go down the road of sending people to your door so they can test your chimney and then fine you if not within regulations. Too bad almost everyone in that community burns wood. Like nuke pointed out, just about everybody in alaska burns wood. If you live in alaska and you don't burn wood, you live in an apartment building, or you're retarded. In winter when the power goes out for hours and your lovely wood pellet stove (electronically powered, most if not all are) and your toyostove can't provide you heat. You're effectively ****ed. I hated living in places where the wood heat was electronicly assisted. Because when the power goes out, you're ****ed, and it means the people who put that heating system there were morons.

Great defunct website on the north star boroughs ballot measure 2 (http://www.healthyairnow.org/proposition-2/ballot-measure/).

Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Nuke on February 16, 2014, 12:28:26 am
^ especially up in the interior where -40f is common. frankly i would want a backup stove if i lived there, because not having heat can kill you.

i knew a guy in juneau who put an industrial heat exchanger on his stovepipe. made it so one load of wood could do the work of 4. and he was just burning old shipping palettes which he collected from stores who just wanted to get rid of them, as well as construction waste from a few contractors that he knew. granted i dont know where he got that unit. to buy one would probibly cost tens of thousands of dollars, but he claimed he got it for free. the perks of being an engineer.

im actually on fuel oil, since i live in an apartment, and i dont have to pay for it. there is a magic button i can push that makes it warmer in here at no expense to me.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: S-99 on February 19, 2014, 12:54:53 am
there is a magic button i can push that makes it warmer in here at no expense to me.
**** you.

On the other note. I wish i could have that guy's setup. Then again, processed and treated wood gives off a lot of heat. It also burns faster, he did have a good system going on. I was more or less trying to do the same thing (getting pallets and what not), but whenever i did, i found them more handy than to just burn unfortunately. To resist those ground level soggy logs, they are great for stacking wood on top of!

I actually was busting apart dressers and other wooden in fantastic condition stuff to burn instead. Getting a hold of construction waste was a different thing. Wait until late spring and all of summer, and show up to the transfer station. Get all of the unused lumber and fiberglass insulation still in the packaging to get for free from all of those construction projects that purchased too many materials and bring it all home. But, yet again, aside from fiberglass being handy, the free lumber was just too handy to burn as well.

The person you spoke about obviously lives in a complete insulated and well built house.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: Nuke on February 19, 2014, 05:03:51 pm
yea, i did most of the work. it was a double wide trailer actually. in addition to a new roof which was installed before i started working there, we redid all the exterior walls. stripped off the sheet metal and put on bead board, plywood, and tyvec and new siding. then on the inside we put in new ceilings, redid all the walls, new insulation, new windows, new drywall and new floors. we sealed up every little crack we could find. he even rented a flir unit to check for holes. needless to say by the time we finished it wasnt a trailer anymore. idk why we just didnt build a whole new building. he actually planned to have it jacked up remove the wheels and put a foundation under it, but i left juneau before that could happen. i was house sitting once in the fall way several years ago and almost never had to fire the stove.
Title: Re: EPA Bans 80% of Wood burning stoves (used to heat 12% of US homes)
Post by: S-99 on February 20, 2014, 08:28:48 pm
That sounds awesome.