Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: procdrone on February 14, 2014, 10:32:40 am

Title: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on February 14, 2014, 10:32:40 am
Hello, I said about making on my own mod in the welcoming topic, and yes I try to do it!

There is a first player-controlled mission I can give out without any files to it.

The campaign is actually before my mod main plot (think of it as a prelude), tell about a civil war between Laramis Supreme Reign and the GTVA.
I was working on the story line for some time, and I can give it out too, to know your opinions, if you wish to :)

But the purpose of this topic: the mission.

I cannot give on the initial entering cut-scene mission (it requires music files to have any meaning of testing, I release it with my mod-pack .vp files).
There goes the second mission: Take off!
I would like to know your opinions on it!

Tested with 3.7.0 FS2O build.
And to notice, I'm aware that errors will pop up saying about missing table files. You can normally ignore them, none of them is used in this particular mission, so it's clearly FS2O retail data. Everything should be OK.
Another notice, English is not my primary language, so minor/bigger language issues can be present, just point them out to me!

Full criticism on it are welcome, I want to shape my missions in the best way it is possible.
Title: Re: LR[001] Mission 1
Post by: Black Wolf on February 14, 2014, 10:54:33 am
This subforum is okay - generally this is for technical FRED stuff, while the missions and campaigns subforums is more typically for releasing new missions/campaigns or asking about existing ones. An open beta type release like this is kind of in between, so either forum is fine.

[EDIT]Forgot to mention, I am away from my FS compy for the moment, I will DL and have a play ASAP.
Title: Re: LR[001] Mission 1
Post by: procdrone on February 14, 2014, 11:47:17 am
I'm all but sorry for all the chaos I stirred up.

I just gone over Fred, and made all the missions correct. No table errors any more.
I uploaded a .zip package with all the data needed for all my 3 missions, 2 first done, and last one in progress now (WIP).

Because of Hard-Light attachment restrictions i uploaded a file to external host, here it goes:

Mirror 1: http://speedy.sh/gmMGd/VeneceMirror-Laramis-Civil-War.zip (http://speedy.sh/gmMGd/VeneceMirror-Laramis-Civil-War.zip)
Mirror 2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dfygofk1mt2hryt/VeneceMirror%20Laramis%20Civil%20War.zip (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dfygofk1mt2hryt/VeneceMirror%20Laramis%20Civil%20War.zip)

All you need to do, is to unzip the file, and folder that was in it, place in your main FS20 folder. (just like any other mod).

Missions are accessible from the tech room, missions-> single missions. All of them have names starting with "lcw_" + the number of the mission, starting with "lcw_00.fs2".

Feedback on all of them is welcome.


EDIT: Mission in this pack are outdated (new can be found in attachments down the posts), I will post a new pack when I end finishing the lcw_01!
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: Luis Dias on February 14, 2014, 01:30:46 pm
My two cents.

lcw_00 is fine for what it is except for the camera placement. It's just too far away. Get closer to the action, let the sound effects do their work on the beams and missiles. Try to capture the bombers doing their run, etc. I enjoyed the soundtrack selection (from bp2).

lcw_01... ok. Things happen too slowly. I should get control a bit sooner. But I like the fact that I'm being forced to look at that gorgeous Orion. OTOH, I don't appreciate that there is a lot of other ships somewhere behind me. Give me something to look ahead of my ship so that I don't get confused at what I should be doing here (at least it distracts me from the fact that I have nothing to do... other than wait for orders and then be jumped out).

lcw_02 is obviously half-done. I'm thrown into the middle of a fight without knowing very well what I'm supposed to do, except there's a lot of myrmidons and I guess I have to shoot them. So I just kinda mindlessly frag everyone that appears, and it just somehow works alright. I kinda understand the skirmish I'm involved here, but there's just not much into it. The rhythm of appearing wings keeps the fight at good rhythm, but there's never an indication that there are some tactics involved here. Perhaps give those bombers a bit more strenght and a heads up that a (medium level fight) is gonna appear, and design that part of the game in a different way than the rest (so you can play with different speeds and mindsets within the mission).

edit I kept writing rythm and I knew there was something wrong about that.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: procdrone on February 14, 2014, 01:54:11 pm
So... yes.

1st. cut-scene, I'll rework the camera, camera movements are a pain for me, but I'll try to do something.

That is correct! I used the soundtracks from bp2, they are so awesome (sure Belasarius (the author? I encountered this music in a couple of mods) will be mentioned when this is complete! HE'S A GOD)

2nd. Well, it's action just after the initial cut-scene, there are bunch of ships to show that a fleet is moving it's position around the node... but the idea of getting something in front of that Orion is a great idea, I just know what to add there!
Yes, that is an invasion force, that is meant to attack on Ross 128 system.
And yes, there is hardly anything more to it, just launch, and jump to the said fire-fight.
I think of increasing the traffic from the node, and to it, add more conversation to stationing and patrolling ships?

3rd. I will rework this mission a bit. I press to much difficulty on the beginning, BOE (Battle of Endor) syndrome I suppose :) I'll work more on it.
Yes, this is hardly given any tactic, just because it is in progress, plainly the goal is a capture of the station (if I would to tell). I must add things in there.

Your feedback is well appreciated, every one is :) If you will notice anything else, just let me know.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: procdrone on February 22, 2014, 05:33:15 am
I know, that totally noone was waiting for this, but I totally reworked the camera in the first cutscene, I hope this time it's good :)
Reworked mission attached, all what you need to do, to overwrite this mission with the mission that is in the pack included earlier.
Have fun and please give some feedback.

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: Rodo on February 22, 2014, 09:39:59 am
some feedback:

lcw_00: ok, nice use of cameras, I found no particular flaw in the use of those. The only thing I'd recommend is to check the dialogue to make it more plausible and interesting to the player.

lcw_01: Good execution, but the mission lacks purpose other than being a practice mission. I'd have you consider merging this one with lcw_02 using it as a prelude and at the same time learning to use those cool ingame warp effects Axem showed us on recent tutorials

lcw_02: Messy combat, never knew what I had to do. I've seen this on a lot of missions and from lots of different fredders, it's a consequence of wanting to add a lot of action and fun stuff for the player to do yet what it accomplishes is making the player dizzy. My personal approach on this is turning missions in a series of tasks the player must accomplish to win. The tasks are almost everytime sequential and tend to require the entire focus and skill of the player.
Eg: on your mission setting you've got 2 cruisers. I'd make and objective to keep both alive so they can do their "magic" against other capital ships, thus your wing objective is to negate fighter and bomber wings.

1st task, fight an enemy wing already in the field that's targeting them (easy first step)
2nd task, fight a bomber wing that arrives after the first wing is destroyed, when the player is 1000m away from the bombers make an enemy wing jump behind him. (hard step)
3rd task, help cruisers disabling an enemy corvette or maybe disarm it, half way through the task make an enemy wing jump in to disrupt the players work. (medium difficulty step)

And finally some FRED random advices:

Try not using waves, if anything the use of this feature means that the role of the player in the mission is nothing more than an automatic fighter grinder, you should try avoid that and implement the task approach I mentioned earlier.

Try keeping chat as short as possible while retaining relevance, and make chat interactions happen only when fights are not happening, this is hard to achieve but possible.
Don't take this to the extreme though, it will be necessary to use chat on fights eventually but be mindfull about when to use it.

Don't use chained events with time delays to decide when enemy and friendly wings arrive, this should happen only when certain things happen in the mission. If you do this you'll have greater control about what the player does, when he does it and you'll know exactly how to react to that.


I'm actually glad to see someone trying to learn fred again, it's refreshing. I'll be cheering for you Hound! hope your get the experience to become a great fredder, HLP can use one more for sure :yes:
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: procdrone on February 22, 2014, 11:12:32 am
Accually, my first idea was to make these missions as one, but later given up the idea.
I could try to do this however, effect is amazing and could be some fun to FRED up, and add the mission later.

Plainly, when I finish the merge, the mission will appear more tactical because now... it was just made up like it is, unfinished and hardly tested.
I've yet to learn about working the chains (actually, It's the one of the first missions I've started using them), or using the arguments.

But, thank you on the feedback, for some part, I lost the faith that anyone even looks into my missions.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: Rodo on February 22, 2014, 11:26:53 am
It's true, freder's life is a lonely life. Normally no one gets to see what you are working on until you actually have a finished product of some sort.
This is I believe the main reason why we have so few fredders, it's a hash task from which you'll never see results until your work is completely or almost completely finished.

Don't be discouraged though, I assure you fredding one of the 3 sets of skills most wanted here on HLP. For me it brought a lot of good experiences, got me in awesome project teams and up to today keeps pulling me back to these forums.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: karajorma on February 22, 2014, 06:48:01 pm
I've always said that a FREDders life is the most thankless because you don't get praise on a good mission very often. Usually the best compliment is no complaints at all about the mission. :p

That said, FREDding is indeed one of the highest demand skill sets here on HLP. Once you've established a name as a competent FREDder, most of the big name projects here on HLP would happily take you on board.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: procdrone on February 23, 2014, 07:45:47 am
That's nice to hear, because I like Freding.

I took on your advices Rodo, and merged both missions, made the second part more tactical, and there is in-game jumping with all those flashy subspace vortexes!

It's mostly completed and ready by now - but I ask everyone that might help. Go crazy about the second part, check out all possible ending scenarios (HELL YEA, SHOT DOWN EVERYONE!) I'd like to know if debriefings are done correctly, and if there is a "never ending mission" problem in there.

Also do say if the combat part is properly designed (not to hard, not too easy, not pointless and logic-less, but it's not planned too be somewhat challenging [it's the first combat mission that takes the GTVA off by surprise])
Thank you in advance!

Mission file in attachment, just replace it with the existing file, and you can delete the lcw_02.fs2 - it's no longer needed. (Obsolete)
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: Rodo on February 23, 2014, 12:18:15 pm
I could not finish the mission, Omega got destroyed by the Herc II wing and I got the RTB for failed mission, yet I could not warp out.
This is probably related to some sexp that you used to disable warping and did not trigger back on.
Good use of directives list, nice short and to the point :yes:

On the mission progression itself, pretty solid work.
-I'd fill in the time between player travelling to station to engage the first wave with some pilot chatter just so it doesn't feel so empty.
-Again try not using waves, those hercs II's got the transport because I was busy with the Arcadia's subsystems. Got the first wave and though I had them all, yet there was another wave waiting and the sneaked behind me and obliterated that transport without opposition.
-Add messages for every wing arrival, and update the player on the situation when necessary.

I'd say this mission is in good shape, you might want to think how to add a little thrill to the first parts of the action, fighting a single wing of enemies is not a challenge for seasoned FS players.
I'd try increasing those wings IA levels a little and then add something that will distract the player from fighting them, or maybe something that will put some pressure on him.


Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-3
Post by: procdrone on February 23, 2014, 02:37:09 pm
OH MY... I just looked over in FRED, and! JUST THIS ONE, the fail events for the Omega down were blank true - do nothing -.-

Just repaired that, and will add some polish.

Hey, I stated, the stages has to be so easy, it's not aimed to only veteran players (beginners also) but, well, these bombers could jump in along the fighters, I'll just change the arrive cue.

Chatter... well I also thought about planting some musing as they warp. It's dull I admit.  Herc's wing is added so it makes it difficult to save Omega. I can disclose that there is a secondary objective, to keep it intact while the boarding occurs.

Well, I must see how I do this for next waves, there should be standard game messages. If they are not. I'll work it out.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Luis Dias on February 25, 2014, 05:38:58 am
:yes: I'll look into your improved missions when I get home.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on February 25, 2014, 06:27:52 am
Then look on this one, I've finished a bit of tweaking to it.

File attached.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Lepanto on February 25, 2014, 05:43:43 pm
This one certainly plays smoother than your original iteration did; overall, good work for a new FREDder. Nice touch with the cruiser blasting the Naeros's fighterbay.

One thing: The Leviathan moves a lot slower than the Omega transport does, so the transport quickly outpaces it. If you want them to keep pace with each other, use the cap-waypoint-speed SEXP (under AI) to slow the Omega to a speed of 15, and have them arrive a bit closer to the station (so they don't take longer to get to the station).

Also, I'd second Rodo's recommendation about not using waves. Waves might make the FREDder's job easier, but trust me, most players want their missions to be faster-paced and less repetitive.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on February 26, 2014, 11:44:03 am
I'm aware that the cruiser stays back of the transport. It's planned, because they are so far away, player has to be more careful with the transport. No AAf's for this one. (Cruiser does only long range beam shooting)

Usage of waves bad. I really can't see why but I will try to do something with it.

Any feedback with the debriefings? Do they work correctly with you?
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 27, 2014, 04:53:07 am
Usage of waves is frowned upon these days because it doesn't really make very much sense as a tactical decision by the enemy ("let's send our fighters in four at a time so they can be picked off, rather than sending in an overwhelming assault!"). It's obviously not going to ruin your campaign or anything, retail did it and was still fun, but your missions will be better off if you try to avoid using them and come up with something that makes more narrative sense instead.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: swashmebuckle on February 27, 2014, 10:27:13 pm
To avoid confusion, you might wanna consider giving your campaign a different name before release. TopAce released a post-Capella campaign just a couple years back called Luyten Civil War (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=81110.0), so a title that makes yours stand out a bit more might be a good call.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2014, 01:50:29 pm
So I finally got to play them!

My two cents.

lcw_00:

The pace and cameras are 10x better! You improve a lot between iterations. I love the bomber and fighter focus, the first green beam flashing from the Orion perspective, etc. I still have some quirks about them, (mostly weird camera movements or staring too much to the sunflare) but that's just perfectionism getting in the way. The scene is simple (good), the setting clear and the narrative perfectly relatable. The only big problem I see there is that there's a metanarrative dissonance here: the scene is played from the GTVA point of view, but then the next mission is played from the "rebels" point of view. That is awkward, but perhaps dealt with correctly with your briefings / debriefings. Watch that potential problem in the long run.

lcw_01:

Still slow pace at the beggining, and the whole attack. Good fredding with a lot of it though. Seems almost like a slow motion heist movie, with one, two, three, four, etc. wings coming down on us with little care for their own lives, strategy or tactics... If the GTVA has no good answer to the heist, perhaps it is way more thoughtful of their part not to sacrifice wings and wings of fighters just to keep the player doing something other than slowly staring at the transporter moving around... and making weird movements around 8:00 (I saw it clipping through the station...). I'd design something along the lines of someone saying "It's all so quiet around here, why don't they send their standard fare of wings so we can have some fun? (which is poking fun at the cliché)... which in turn tells the player (metanarratively) that something big is gonna happen. Then have a cruiser and bombers jumping just in front of your transport and Leviathan. Something smart tactically speaking.

Instead we only have boring waves after waves of sacrificed fighters... that never even have the upper hand. (In this respect I preferred your original version where you had cruisers defending the station... at least you had some opposition!)

All in all, good fredding and best of luck going forward!

Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on February 28, 2014, 04:54:06 pm
To avoid confusion, you might wanna consider giving your campaign a different name before release. TopAce released a post-Capella campaign just a couple years back called Luyten Civil War (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=81110.0), so a title that makes yours stand out a bit more might be a good call.

Yes, I was thinking a lot about the whole thing, and it's similarity to the Luyten Civil War. Firstly I called it somehow strangely, and changed it to this way. Why?
Becouse the campaign name is: Laramis Civil War, it's an prelude to another campaign I will be working on after I'm done with this one. Mod and mission will have all the other names in the end.

The finished mod will be called "Venece Mirror".

For now to backbone the whole thing, I'll give out a pieces of history about my whole mod. HIGLY UNPOLISHED, HIGLY UNFINISHED
English could be bad in there, very bad.

Following contains spoilers about the whole storyline:

Code: [Select]
"In 2358, 5 years after the end of the Second Shivan Incursion, the economic downturn still rampaged the distant GTVA worlds, on which too much pressure was put on the building Delta-Serpentis Jump gate, border systems like Adhara or Laramis faces a economic collapse and poverty to its citizens, plagues spread and small militias raised in revocation of BETAC of said systems. From now on, they are called independent.

With GTVA still too much occupied in its core systems and Jump gate building project there were never been able to accordingly respond to those uprisings, any real funding on still loyal border worlds was non-existent, and they which found themselves alone in the midst of their new problems, Adharian Confederacy and Laramis Supreme Reign.

GTVA still underestimated there civil unrest, believing that those will collapse themselves, diplomatic ties has been established only 6 months later, after the official forming of those new system-states.

Failed diplomacy and still neglected border systems of GTVA faced a total economic breakdown and anarchy, they could not sustain itself without outer help, help which GTVA still didn't handed.

After 4 months, those who finally realized that GTVA won't help them any way, they turned their looks on the two minor factions, the Adhara and Laramis, which economic state was growing up after secession from GTVA, in one year, many of border systems joined first or second faction, forming two formidable powers to be reckoned with, in time, they formed a strong military presence to backbone their independence ambitions.

GTVA could not ignore that, again, next 2 months of failed diplomacy sparkled a conflict between Laramis Supreme Reign and GTVA, still devastated military of the Alliance Terran part could not hold its territories, until Vasudan Armada finally joined the fight in 2351, beating the Supreme Reign and driving their fleet back to their home system.

This could become a start to and end of the Laramis uprising, if not Adharians, still untouched by any conflict, came to aid the Laramis people, after a bloody war that endured for 4 years, the new forged allies, were able to stop GTVA advance.

Both parties understood that they can't hold their independence by their very own, 2 years later, in 2357, they formed a one, and unified front to fight with the still hostile GTVA, any contact has been cut down, and new war started."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"At the end of 2357, culminating the end of the most bloody civil war known, Adharian Confederacy and Laramis Supreme Reign faced a problem, while their military crippled and beaten, a still hostile GTVA endured. Most likely that in next year, the existence of said factions would come to and violent end at the tip of Alliance's gunpoint's. The leaders of said minor powers in border worlds met in Wolf system, signing a truce, an pact that brought a new, independent and strong faction to power, the 'Wolf's Allied Convention' formed Star Alliance, which officially came to life in 2359, when a capital was chosen in Adhara system. The known two faction became one, with a strong anti-alliance propaganda they managed to rally everyone on their controlled territories. A new, unified front evolve to ensure safety from GTVA. For the next 10 years, the Alliance was uncontested by GTVA, diplomatic channels were opened as of 2362 and a cease-fire was enacted. The back down economy was finally to recover on the much suffered border worlds."

EDIT: It seems that the enemy forces deployment is bad in second mission, I will overdo it with backbone of your advices.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: swashmebuckle on March 01, 2014, 02:10:17 am
Cool, I think it's good that your overall mod release will have a different name.  Sometimes it's hard enough to keep campaigns straight as it is :)

In English they're called Venetian Mirrors, assuming you're talking about the actual objects rather than a code name or something that happens to combine the words Venice and Mirror.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 07, 2014, 11:08:07 am
I know there has been a bit of silence from me for a while, but never fear, I'm still working on this.
I took on all of your advices and reworking the combat part of the mission from the scratch, I have the nice plan for it, so I hope this one will be more to your likings :)
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 07, 2014, 01:03:15 pm
Here it is, Brand new, flashy and fabulous (just kidding) mission is again complete.
I hope it's even better then previous one...
File attached, overwrite the previous one.

I hope I didn't overlooked on anything this time, and it's all set and ready to go.

Feedback welcome and needed!
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Rodo on March 08, 2014, 11:37:51 am
I could not beat the mission, yet I'm not the best player out there so it's ok.

Didn't notice any flaw in the mission design or fred-wise, so good work on those fronts, now I'd focus on mission gameplay and minor polishing like checking the distance the player has to travel between targets, the amount of enemies he must face simultaneously, and adding chatter or smalltalk wherever necessary.

I'd recommend you use the hotkeys for every wing/ship you put in the directives list, just like you did with the bomber wing.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Luis Dias on March 08, 2014, 01:24:18 pm
I also could not beat the mission, always seemed to be caught in the multiple Fenris' AAA beams. Otherwise it's a fine mission (except the part where the battleships are constantly hitting each other).

:yes:
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 08, 2014, 01:35:59 pm
Well, I know. (The Aff of the both cruisers are a bit mess and gave me troubles when testing it too, well after the 3rd time I managed to beat them, yet the Vaspado was already dead...) Making the right difficulty is a tricky thing, one would say it's easy (like you said the last time), one could say it's really hard. (and this part is meant to be hard, something for those "seasoned FS2O players" that was talking earlier about the difficulty). Yes, it's a tricky one... but as always, your suggestions are well appreciated. (Try to give it a few more spins, maybe after next time you will beat those pesky Fenrises!)

And about capships running into themselves, well, i don't use the in game coordinates to navigate them to best firing positions, but instead, I use the Attack order and let the AI solve this for me, it can be messy too.

I think i could change this.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Luis Dias on March 08, 2014, 02:22:28 pm
I wasn't complaining! I do prefer hard missions to easy ones and I do think I'm always being a little of an idiot in the missions, I have this urge to kill the Fenris' front beam turrets and then I easily get into trouble. Never felt that the mission was impossible, only demanded a little bit less cowboyish of a fightplan :).
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 08, 2014, 03:52:46 pm
I looked on the issue with fred, and found the problem with so hard fenrises.

My SEXP about setting the beam turret armour to lowest possible is not there, no clue how it got delated...
I've set them in place now, and on the next upload, it should be better.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Lepanto on March 09, 2014, 03:42:54 pm
Alright, this iteration was definitely much more fun; by now, you've got a grasp on how to split up missions into sub-tasks. Between the multiple enemy wings, the suicidal Zod transport, and the comm traffic, the enemy deployments feel more like "we're launching a disorganized response to an unexpectedly successful enemy attack" than "we're sending wave after wave of fighters to get killed."

Still, though, it was annoying to get killed by the two cruisers, forcing me to replay the rest of the mission up until that point. Might I recommend using this checkpoint script (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74716.msg1476702#msg1476702) to allow the player to reload from mid-mission checkpoints?

Also, the dialogue and directive which tell you to help disable the station's subsystems popped up while I was busy fighting the cruisers pounding on the Vaspado. Maybe consider chaining the "Omega docked" event to the "cruisers are dead" event, to keep the mission progression flowing smoothly?

Something else you might not have considered: the Steadfast can accidentally get disabled, so it can't warp out, and is therefore destroyed. It's a minor point, but maybe you could also add a message displaying when the Steadfast is destroyed, or guardian its engines if you want it to show up later?
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 10, 2014, 09:52:11 am
There will be a message to it. Steadfast is not a campaign valuable asset.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 10, 2014, 11:49:06 am
Go ahead and give it a spin now.
No checkpoint however, I'm yet to learn about them.
Mission in attachment, as always, replace the previous one.

EDIT: Sorry for mistake, I've uploaded the wrong version, up to date is here now.
NEW EDIT: After some playtests i changed the way that cruisers attacks, those AAf are really annoying.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Lepanto on March 13, 2014, 03:28:22 pm
It's still too hard to intercept Aries bombers, then de-beam the Bulwark and Jeropodos before they can kill the Vaspado. Maybe cut that section down to one enemy cruiser?

The hull integrity repair from the support ships is quite helpful, though.

BTW, if you didn't know, you should use the AAAh beam cannon on enemy ships, in place of the AAAf. AAAhs fire faster on higher difficulties, and vice versa for the AAAf.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 15, 2014, 03:56:22 pm
Yes, and with events done in there as they are, I'm unable to repair most things, that's why all events go right of the scratch, now clear and easy to bugfix (again rebuilding the mission).
Also, I'm giving it an extensive testing so there won't be throwing you unfinished scraps and waiting what to correct.

Vaspado got stronger hull, while the Gallant arrives faster, bomber wing will be down to 3 bombers, and escorts down to 2 fighters. (But did not play-tested it), player is given an beam-protect state just as his mission is to disarm the cruisers, so it should not be too hard now, but remember this protection goes right off after the beams are down! :D

Patience, when I have a moment I'll tend to the mission.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 15, 2014, 06:00:19 pm
And here it is, I was able to pass it 2 times without problems (the final version).

2 times because I was only playing the final version 2 times :D

File attached.

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Lepanto on March 19, 2014, 10:13:10 pm
Okay, this version is beatable. Your FREDding has certainly improved; if you remember what you've learned here, you should be able to make solid missions. Nice touch, tying in the Vaspado's beam shot to the capture and availability of Capella-era ships in future missions (can I have Kaysers and Tornados plz  ;))

A couple things I'll mention, though:

Weakening subsystems by setting their strength to lower percentages looks odd in-mission (like those subsystems were damaged, even on fresh ships.) The best way to weaken or strengthen individual ship subsystems is by using armor types provided in your mod's Armor.tbl, though table-editing goes beyond the scope of mere FREDding.

Taking out the Naeros's subsystems is still a bit tedious (especially if you've lost all your wingmen already.) Maybe have a wing of allied bombers with Stiletto IIs jump in to disable the station's subsystems, and you have to defend the bombers from one last wave of enemy fighters while they do their job?

BTW, why is the player flying for the anti-GTVA rebel faction?
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 20, 2014, 02:33:24 pm
Ok, I'm going to give answers bit by bit.

Quote
Okay, this version is beatable. Your FREDding has certainly improved; if you remember what you've learned here, you should be able to make solid missions. Nice touch, tying in the Vaspado's beam shot to the capture and availability of Capella-era ships in future missions (can I have Kaysers and Tornados plz  ;))

Thank you, Well, when i get hard enough to the things they seems to work our :)
'bout the kaysers, they will be available when campaign progresses. No spoilers!

Quote
Weakening subsystems by setting their strength to lower percentages looks odd in-mission (like those subsystems were damaged, even on fresh ships.) The best way to weaken or strengthen individual ship subsystems is by using armor types provided in your mod's Armor.tbl, though table-editing goes beyond the scope of mere FREDding.

Explanation under way! There are few reasons:

1) Ross 128 is another of the non-core systems, and not every ship must be in fresh-off-the-shipyard-maintenance state, sol gate costs GTVA almost everything it can spare. (That's the poorer explain, so why the beam is only damaged!?), notice GTVA was taken off guard, when Halabard wrecked the corvette and jammed all their comms, gaining the node, making the security council panic, and in 15 minutes later, they attack on the military installation, they are off guard as hell, sending in anything close enough to try to reinforce the positions. If the boarding operation would be prolonged or placed about 30 minutes later, Laramis Supreme Reign would be facing the GTD Maveric along with corvette and cruiser screen, rendering the blitz impossible to them.

2) Making the turrets low armor at the FRED is not giving enough for me, they would be hard to disarm again, I would need to write a specified armor type for this, or "borrow" it from some other mod. BUT I want this campaign as clear of additional files as it is possible.
Maybe when I get to release it as single VP's file (finished), I'll change it to "nice and cool", polish everything I can.

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Taking out the Naeros's subsystems is still a bit tedious (especially if you've lost all your wingmen already.) Maybe have a wing of allied bombers with Stiletto IIs jump in to disable the station's subsystems, and you have to defend the bombers from one last wave of enemy fighters while they do their job?

Could do it, but it would be sharp-risky to the "senseless fighter attack" problem... I will think about it though.

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BTW, why is the player flying for the anti-GTVA rebel faction?

The campaign goal is to tell one of the periods of my story line, how the GTVA haters: Laramis Supreme Reign attacks the GTVA systems gaining some ground at first, but later on, getting pushed back and almost defeated at hands of the Vasudans that finally joins the fight.

My idea to show events from the LSR side was a sort of experiment, there are loads of campaigns that side's with GTVA, but it's not a rule, isn't it?
Also, it's far more foreseen then you may think.

After the events of this campaign, there is new faction formed, Star Alliance (can bring more on the topic if you are interested), and the next campaign I will be making, will tell the story how the GTVA takes another fight with the Star Alliance, and THEN player will be fighting on the side of GTVA. (will fancy new ship models, new weapons, capship and fighter alike, creating new storyline and new alien race! I have the files for all of this already set and ready, just mission making is left!)

Contrast, trying to create something new.


Ohhh.... and btw. I'm on the verge of competing the next mission, I will post it when it's ready :)
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: starlord on March 25, 2014, 05:33:32 am
actually, your story seems to show compatibilities with the end telling of the luyten civil war, as such, would you not be tempted to try and link both in one continuity, like STR and echo gate?
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 27, 2014, 01:44:37 am
actually, your story seems to show compatibilities with the end telling of the luyten civil war, as such, would you not be tempted to try and link both in one continuity, like STR and echo gate?

Well, sir.

I can't find any similarities between the two, and as Luyten system will be a battlefield in some point, it don't relates to the Luyten Civil War.
When the whole campaign will be end, you'll see this as much.

As for the continuing the Luyten Civil War, I played it, and liked it's plot that's for sure, but making the next one? I don't know if there is much to do there atm. Story's over.

But, if people would insist, I COULD think of something for this :)
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: starlord on March 27, 2014, 05:10:17 am
No worries! this was mostly a suggestion. :)

we have nothing to demand from you.

this was a thought mainly due to one of the antagonists of the luyten civil war making an escape to laramis where it's implied he stirred up a second rebellion.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 27, 2014, 11:03:10 am
Well, yes, I forgot about that part.

It leaved the doors opened, true. And well, a freder interested in making the story continuing might do something.

But in time, that Freder is not me (my skill is poor to say the least), I have my own, 3 campaigns to make, if not more :)
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 30, 2014, 12:57:05 pm
When im working with a cutscene, i can upload the mission not yet polished out.

could use some feedback on it.

No briefing debriefing yet. Don't worry about that.

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 31, 2014, 02:04:18 pm
Someone told me that screenies are the best.

Here is some shoots up's from my cutscene I'm working on!

(http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/m2/3c/4d/av43li.jpg)
LSR Fleet assembled and ready for battle!

(http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/vu/ht/bw/icdvze.jpg)
GTVA won't tolerate rebels raiding them for any longer!

(http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/az/mm/zu/pvzkhb.jpg)
(http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/90/pp/nm/nu2h2l.jpg)
GTVA won't be taken lightly!

(http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/op/3t/mb/zulsmk.jpg)
And that's how you end when multiple corvettes fire on you!

Don't know how to make full screen screenies, sorry, i just get up a black image :/
And as for this, sorry for the low quality, don't really know what application to use in order to take high quality screenies... any tips? PM me
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Lepanto on March 31, 2014, 02:32:29 pm
I played the most recent mission you posted, and here's some impressions. If I'm bugging you about anything that you were already planning to take care of, then sorry.

Overall, a fairly smooth mission.

Nice use of simple cutscenes 'n stuff.

Spoiler:
At the beginning of the mission, a directive, "Destroye Nahema", appears and instantly completes itself. Why?

Frankly, it's too easy to defend the cruiser against the GTVA bombers attacking in the gas giant. Might I recommend downgrading the cruiser to a Leviathan or Fenris? The Aeolus defends itself very well for a retail capship; too well in this instance, IMO.

Why did you dump the player into a big battle at the end, and then tell them to RTB instead of letting them fight in it?  :( It's your mission-design call, but I'd rather have fought in the battle.

---------------

Nice screenies. I'd really like to actually be able to play this battle. Big battles are totally awesome to play, but hard to FRED.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on March 31, 2014, 02:45:08 pm
Lepanto:

First issue: Hell yea... I knew this could happen, the part when you leave the gas giant is hardly tested and polished by now. That's why it's said that is not yet polished out :)

The Aoelus is a part of the "Canon" stuff for my campaign, and i cannot change it. I guess it's have to be that easy (Or i could break up some turrets on the ship for more difficulty).

There is really no bugging me! Bring out all heavy cannons on me! :)

How about your impressions when the Leo is down? Ships arriving and all?

And about the cutscene, well I don't want to spoiler on the upcoming mission after it ^^
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: Lepanto on April 04, 2014, 06:49:31 pm
I re-played the mission.

Spoiler:
Okay, you've piqued my interest: why did a big battle suddenly break out at the end, and why is the player ordered to jump out immediately?

Where the last mission was too hard in its later versions, this mission is too easy, IMO; I wasn't really challenged to destroy the enemy wings and complete my objectives. I strongly recommend nerfing the Kamais in some fashion, and letting Capricorn wing cover Leo on their attack run.

Now that you're done with your introductory missions, and have a good, basic grasp of FREDding, I'd recommend that you:

A: start a new thread for your campaign in Missions and Campaigns, with a couple screenies and some basic plot information.

B: Find a dedicated, private beta-tester, instead of releasing missions for testing one-by-one in public. Also, to be honest, it'd help if you found someone to proofread your missions.

Also, I strongly recommend incorporating Fury's upgraded AI (http://www.mediafire.com/download/d6mdtf767a979x1/FuryAI_v9.7z) into your campaign; it makes all AI fighters and capships fight better.
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on April 05, 2014, 06:16:46 am
I was thinking about moving to new topic, and I will do so, when I complete that what im working on now. (Cutscene and mission after, also polishing the existing ones)

Thanks for pointing me to the upgraded AI :)
Title: Re: LCW[WIP] Missions 1-2
Post by: procdrone on April 12, 2014, 02:45:04 pm
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