Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: est1895 on February 16, 2014, 05:14:16 pm
-
Will this stick work on Windows 7 Pro 64 bit and Freespace SCP?
-
Yes, I've got one that I've used on Windows 98, Windows XP, Windows Vista and now am using on Windows 7 64 bit.
-
Yep, works fine for me!
-
Would a saitek rumble pad work in fso. It's not currently 'seen'within the installer
-
I think it is rather fair to say that, if windows recognizes the controller, FS2_open will do too.
-
Have you guys broken any of them?
-
I have "broken" a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, Force 3D Pro, and a Wingman Force 3D.
Or rather they all stopped working properly after relatively short useful period. The "potentiometres" used by Logitech in these devices use rather flimsy carbon strip resistors and they tend to develop problematic behaviour (spiking, non-linear response curves, and capped axis range) at startling rate. Which is why I personally would not recommend this line-up of sticks as the first choice of joystick.
-
I have "broken" a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, Force 3D Pro, and a Wingman Force 3D.
Or rather they all stopped working properly after relatively short useful period. The "potentiometres" used by Logitech in these devices use rather flimsy carbon strip resistors and they tend to develop problematic behaviour (spiking, non-linear response curves, and capped axis range) at startling rate. Which is why I personally would not recommend this line-up of sticks as the first choice of joystick.
So what do you use?
-
I had the same experience with my Wingman Force 3D as Herra did, and I wound up moving to a Saitek Cyborg Evo, which I've had a generally good experience with; it is a tad bit too large for my puny baby hands, but not enough that I can't use it. My all-time favorite stick in terms of feel still remains my beloved Sidewinder 3D Pro (with custom-built USB adapter), but I find it comes a few buttons short of what I'd like for FS, and the throttle isn't all that great.
-
Honestly, Logitech 3d pro is a piece of crap comparing to joystick with magnetic sensors and separate X and Y axis load such as Cobra M5.
I own both. Could not hit a **** in Freespace with Logitech because of its stiff load and resistive sensors.
Really frustrating expreince aganst mouse targeting.
However in X3 you can play somehow (autoaim)
But then I got Cobra M5. I replaced both X and Y springs with thin rubber band (such as used to make packs of money ) and...
With something like week of practise I have comparable to mouse presicion and something like x10 times pleasure playing Freespace. My settings for joystick in FS is 0 deadzone and sensivity 1 point less then maximum.
And by the way, if windows ( W8 x64 inmy case) recognizes your device, FSO will recognize it too. FSO works fine even wih virtual joysticks (as VJoy, PPJoy and vjoy)
-
So what do you use?
I have since used up two Saitek Cyborg Evo sticks, briefly tested Saitek Cyborg Evo Force but returned it to store due to inaccurate twist handle, and after my second Cyborg Evo started to wear down (mostly mechanically), I got a Saitek X52 system from which I am still using the throttle (it's had some wiring failures and I've had to repair it a few times - other than that it's quite ok).
However I've replaced the X52 stick with a combination of CH Fighterstick USB and Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals...
-
Do you think I will be fine with a CH Fighterstick? I suppose that's one stick that I won't break.
-
With the CH joysticks you need to invest in rudder pedals as well, if you want control over pitch, roll and yaw. CH sticks only have two major axes - in flight sims, they're typically used for elevator and aileron (pitch and roll) but in FS2 it may be more intuitive to try binding them to pitch and yaw instead, and maybe use Q/E or A/D keys for roll.
-
Well, of course you'll be fine with the Fighterstick. Everyone would be, if they could afford one. :) It's an awesome stick, the best I've ever had. And yeah, it is built like a rock, and if you do manage to break it somehow, CH also sells replacement parts. It will serve you well, that's for sure, and if you'll ever want to upgrade to a full HOTAS, then you can build an excellent one around the Fighterstick (CH Pro Throttle + CH Pedals FTW :)).
Though HT is right about the rudder, unless you don't mind lack of roll control (or keyboard-based one). In FS, it's not that essential, but in flight sims, rudder is really nice to have. Though I must say, last time I used a twist handle with a flightsim, I nearly broke my wrist when trying to make a coordinated turn. With pedals, it's very intuitive, and feels like a real plane. They're also good for most racing games (as long as the clutch isn't required) and driving around in FPSes. It's not 100% necessary to have pedals for FS, but they're worth buying.
Also keep in mind CH stick have no force feedback.
-
Also keep in mind CH stick have no force feedback.
Unfortunately, there is not any stick at the moment that has FFB :/,
-
Unfortunately, there is not any stick at the moment that has FFB :/,
There's the Logitech 940 system which I can't recommend since it's Logitech, and then there's the old Microsoft Sidewinder force feedback sticks if you're lucky enough to find some in good condition, but yeah - it seems currently force feedback is not "in vogue", most likely because it's expensive to make a force feedback system that actually delivers good results without degrading the flying experience. I know for sure that entry-level force feedback sticks like Logitech Force 3D Pro only offered extreme level of frustration because the engine gearing had "notches" that the stick tended to "catch" on, which meant the stick movements were not fluid and smooth...
By the way, Saitek's new X55 HOTAS controller is looking mighty interesting:
http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x55.html
-
There's the Logitech 940 system
It has been discontinued due to reliability issues.
I agree with the X55, but no FFB on that one either. I do love the Saitek X series due to all the extra rotaries they include on it, making flying prop planes a lot easier.
-
I was thinking about upgrading to an X52 Pro at some point, but that 55 setup looks interesting too. I'm just not sure how comfortable it would be to use the dual throttle as a single unit, unless there's an option available to mechanically link the two parts. The X65 is a unique offering too, though I'd definitely need to try out that pressure-sensitive system myself before committing to it.
The one thing I do miss from my old Wingman Force 3D was the calibration software that came with it, which had a demo of various force-feedback effects. It was fun to hit the button for "chainsaw" and watch the stick spazz the **** out. :D
-
I was thinking about upgrading to an X52 Pro at some point, but that 55 setup looks interesting too. I'm just not sure how comfortable it would be to use the dual throttle as a single unit, unless there's an option available to mechanically link the two parts.
There is an option to link the two throttles on the X55 and I quite like it :)
The bigger issue is that this (and afaik all other HOTAS) appear as two devices in the device manager and you can only use 1 joystick at a time with Freespace.
Currently using a ghetto profile where I bound all throttle functions to keypresses but I'm having a helluva lot of fun heh. ;)
-
Quite a few HOTAS systems can combine the joystick, throttle, pedals (and Logitech 940 has that by default) into a single Windows device. CH certainly can do that (a capability that I really love), and high end Thrustmasters should as well.
-
Quite a few HOTAS systems can combine the joystick, throttle, pedals (and Logitech 940 has that by default) into a single Windows device. CH certainly can do that (a capability that I really love), and high end Thrustmasters should as well.
A search for HOTAS in this forum led me to believe it wasn't quite that simple ... http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84413.msg1685921#msg1685921 not with Thrustmaster at least.
Not sure about Logitech either, but interesting that it works this way for CH.
Newer games of course don't have that issue. (Can easily bind all functions in Elite:Dangerous for instance.)
Ironically I specifically choose the X55 because it allows for each device to be connected directly by USB completely independent of each other, without any cable between throttle and stick, which always annoyed me with other setups I had.
-
Unfortunately, there is not any stick at the moment that has FFB :/,
There's the Logitech 940 system which I can't recommend since it's Logitech, and then there's the old Microsoft Sidewinder force feedback sticks if you're lucky enough to find some in good condition, but yeah - it seems currently force feedback is not "in vogue", most likely because it's expensive to make a force feedback system that actually delivers good results without degrading the flying experience. I know for sure that entry-level force feedback sticks like Logitech Force 3D Pro only offered extreme level of frustration because the engine gearing had "notches" that the stick tended to "catch" on, which meant the stick movements were not fluid and smooth...
I thought I read several years ago that it was licensing issues and patent enforcement/lawsuits more than accuracy or reliability issues that killed force feedback in joysticks and wheels. (Unfortunately I can't find any links now to support that.) Plus, with the decline of space and flight sims over the last several years, it seems like there aren't as many choices for joysticks anyway, especially in the mid-range.
-
Not sure about Logitech either, but interesting that it works this way for CH.
With Logitech, it's very simple, because G940 is actually a single unit, at least IIRC. It has only one USB cable, and both the pedals and throttle plug into the stick. I wanted to get it someday, but I ended up going for CH.