Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Geezer on December 11, 2014, 03:20:48 pm
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You guys seen this yet?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/606843645/freespace-tactics/
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Cease & Desist from Interplay in five... four...
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So they work on Interplay, they say they are "gauging" this to see interest in the FS Universe?
My Bull**** alarms are somewhat ringing here. Not even one mention regarding the legal accountability of the IP.
They even have a lawyer. If that's all true and their intentions are good, it might make it.
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Biography
FreeSpace Development Corp is a dedicated group of gamers and game makers. We're fans of the FreeSpace games and our goal is to keep exploring that universe.
During the day, we work for Interplay making computer games. At night and on the weekends, we play and create board games. FDC is a chance for us to combine our two passions.
Our lead designer is Chris Taylor, an experienced board game designer (Nemo's War, Forlorn: Hope, Moonbase Alpha, Imperial Stars II). He can often be found on Boardgamegeek.com, under the username Anarchy.
Our lead artist is Serg. Put stuff about Serg here.
Our other artist is Logan. Logan's favorite board games are Monopoly and Monopoly Express (Just kidding, Logan!).
Even our lawyer, Chris Nelson, is an experienced board gamer.
I didn't think Interplay made computer games anymore?
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_IF_ Interplay supports this I think we should support the hell out of it.
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_IF_ Interplay supports this I think we should support the hell out of it.
Oh, absolutely; but I'm not going to pledge a dime until I know it won't just get shut down.
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That's the best approach.
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On the plus side, I'm glad to see it's based around Terran/Vasudan engagements, since Shivan engagements were pretty much one-sided most of the time.
I'm a bit cold on the miniatures themselves, but the project does say they are prototypes.
Yup, I'll wait and see what Interplay do about this before making any further judgements.
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Hi there! Chris from FreeSpace Development Corp here. Just wanted to let you guys know that FreeSpace Tactics is officially licensed, so the only risk of it being shut down is if we don't make the funding goal! I updated the campaign page to address your valid concern. We should have said that more clearly. Also, about the minis: the ships on the campaign page are 3-D printed prototypes that we had made just to fool around with during our play testing. The final game pieces will be higher quality molded plastic and will have more detail. If you have any other questions, fire away! I encourage you to ask over at the Kickstarter page so everyone can have the info.
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Thanks Chris. One of our other members also just noticed the news item (http://www.interplay.com/about/article.php?id=79) on Interplay's website :)
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I hope this works out. If I wasn't behind on bills, I'd back it. I'd love to have a miniatures board game of FS!
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Why is the heavies stretch goal said to be the Medusa and the Seth? The Seth isn't a heavy bomber, shouldn't it be the Amun?
Or is it heavy fighters? In which case it shouldn't be the Medusa but the Hercules.
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Hi there! Chris from FreeSpace Development Corp here. Just wanted to let you guys know that FreeSpace Tactics is officially licensed, so the only risk of it being shut down is if we don't make the funding goal! I updated the campaign page to address your valid concern.
Color me genuinely (and pleasantly!) surprised. I just backed!
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This project is also all over the Interplay website (http://www.interplay.com/), which is good enough for me. Although I'm still kind of ambiguous about the whole thing... Eh, what the hell, I'll back.
But if you're all such big FS fans, I'm curious as to how you managed to get the Seth and the Osiris the wrong way around? Osiris should be the heavy bomber, Seth should be the Athena equivalent (really, the Hercules equivalent, but you don't seem to have a Herc).
EDIT: Heh, unsurprisingly, super ninjaed on all points. :)
EDIT2: Ambiguous or not, you have my $100. Please do this right. I'd rather no game at all than a bad one.
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Hi! This is the Other Chris (designer).
The "Light Bombers" pack with the Athena and Osiris is a confusing name. It's the pack that introduces the two basic, common bombers. The Osiris isn't a light bomber, correct, but it is lighter than the Amun.
The "Heavies" pack is not a bomber pack, but just the two bigger ships.
When organizing the ships and matching them up, I organized them by types based on their game stats. So even though the Osiris is longer than the Amun, the Amun's stats are superior.
I'd welcome any suggestions and feedback. If anyone is in the Orange County, CA area and wants to stop by for a game, let me know.
Thanks!
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Hi FreespaceDevCorp / Chris
That Interplay is cool with you guys going ahead with this is certainly very welcome news and I'm glad you registered, I for one look forward to any future interaction with you guys and updates from the project.
For the record I have placed a small backing on this.
also Posted to Reddit and FB
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Good news! I love board games, especially when they're based on my favorite continuities! :yes:
Is this game going to be expensive? Approximately one month ago, during the most important comic-con in Italy (Lucca Comics 2014), I looked for a decent board game based on sci-fi. I recall a game based on Star Wars, but it was insanely expensive. I hope your game will be way cheaper.
By the way, may I suggest Battlefleet Gothic as a base for capship battles?
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I would love to see a way to put capships in the game, even if it was just the miniatures attacking carboard cutouts.
By the way, may I suggest Battlefleet Gothic as a base for capship battles?
Or A Call to Arms?
I'll be pledging some money after Christmas is over.
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One small detail I have noticed is that you are including shield markers when shields are a Great War technology
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I was really hoping a minatures game would come along in time, esspecially after the success of FFG's X-Wing (huge fan of the game, despite not being exactly a SW-fan); though I will hold my opinion until I've seen the full spectrum of gameplay, I wish the project all the best
(also I want Shivans; I like playing the "villans" on the tabletop)
ps. that shipping outside the US carries an addtional charge is a bummer (esspecially since import fees might also be applicable)
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I would love to see a way to put capships in the game, even if it was just the miniatures attacking carboard cutouts.
By the way, may I suggest Battlefleet Gothic as a base for capship battles?
Or A Call to Arms?
I'll be pledging some money after Christmas is over.
Even the cardboard cutouts would be rather large and expensive. I've got some ideas for capital ships to try and bring them in without breaking the bank.
Battlefleet Gothic and Call to Arms (the B5 version) are both great games. I also like Starmada.
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I have like zero interest in board games in general, but I'm definitely willing to throw some money your way. Hell, the crazier part of me wants to get the thing just to have those miniatures flying around on my desk. :D
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wants to get the thing just to have those miniatures flying around on my desk. :D
I didn't even think I about that. Must get the wallet out.
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I so want to get this and am so excited, but at the same time I have this looming realization that nobody will ever actually play this with me, since
>actual friends
>shared interests
:(
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I have like zero interest in board games in general, but I'm definitely willing to throw some money your way. Hell, the crazier part of me wants to get the thing just to have those miniatures flying around on my desk. :D
QFT
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Here's an idea to consider - because FS capships are so large, you might consider a mat-type vessel which you can have turret and subsystem tokens on? You'd besically unroll a vynil ship mat from a tube and lay it across the table. If you fly across a ship when attacking it (fighters and bombers can fly across the ship mat), you'd have to roll to check for collisions (kind of like WH40K when ending your vehicle move over a forest). The capship doesn't move, but this doesn't really hurt an FS boardgame at all as big ships tend to be more story pieces than anything else.
...If you want capship miniatures, the smart thing to do would be to keep the fighter miniatures and adopt a new ruleset which turns the fighter pieces into squadrons. Then you could have scale ships which can maneuver across the table, etc. Same game pieces, new cards, and you let the players play the games/story the way they want to.
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I so want to get this and am so excited, but at the same time I have this looming realization that nobody will ever actually play this with me, since
>actual friends
>shared interests
:(
Reminds me of when I bought the BSG board-game. :P :(
I am looking at this with cautionary optimism; I wish I had money to give right now, but my Euphrates is drying up. :sigh:
PS: Shields before The Great War? I smell Shivan Incursion - Hammer of Light expansions.
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I really hope they don't get enough feedback to make FreeSpace 3. No disrespect, but I don't think Interplay as it is could ever touch that material and live up to the quality that FS2 gave us.
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I really hope they don't get enough feedback to make FreeSpace 3. No disrespect, but I don't think Interplay as it is could ever touch that material and live up to the quality that FS2 gave us.
Firstly interplay publish not dev so it would be a dev house that does the hands on, while interplay can certainly direct and influence, if they have a collective braincell it would be left to the dev house to make the real decisions.
Secondly, any FS3 would get bad press regardless of anything else there is too much community feeling about it. A prequel would work, something in the realms of the formation of the GTA would be Ideal as it is not touched on beyond glancing hints and so would have little impact on the exsisting canon. Best bet though would be a new IP using FS style gameplay.
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They are specifically talking about FreeSpace IP. Probably trying to surf the new "spacesim" age of nowadays.
And yeah, I get they would "hire" a dev team to do this and they would merely publish it. But can you actually see a good dev house working for Interplay for a game they know they can't live up to, and where the market is still a question mark?
I only see horrors in that prospect.
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Secondly, any FS3 would get bad press regardless of anything else there is too much community feeling about it. A prequel would work, something in the realms of the formation of the GTA would be Ideal as it is not touched on beyond glancing hints and so would have little impact on the exsisting canon. Best bet though would be a new IP using FS style gameplay.
A new game using FS-style gameplay wouldn't need a FS-themed boardgame Kickstarter to "gauge interest". There's already enough evidence that there is a market for such a thing, if you wanted to make a new game in the genre, it is easy to argue that a quality game made on a non-AAA budget can turn a profit.
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yer I can see your point there The E
Still I could get behind a unification war/early T-V war or reconstruction era campaign
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I don't play board games, but I would fund this for $20. Why does it jump from $5 to $45?
EDIT: Also, FS3 wouldn't work using today's game design strategies at most large companies. It would need to have modding support, and many big companies don't seem to support that anymore. So the people running the show would have to not be afraid to try something different.
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I'll be dropping some money by after Xmas. Like many people here, I haven't really played board games since the FASA Star Trek system, but am glad to encourage interest in the Freespace franchise.
As for the 'forbidden number 3', I think the thing is, it's like wishing for another symphony from Mozart or for Elvis to write one more song. No matter how good that product is, it will never live up to what was anticipated because we've enshrined it in our minds.
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As for the 'forbidden number 3', I think the thing is, it's like wishing for another symphony from Mozart or for Elvis to write one more song. No matter how good that product is, it will never live up to what was anticipated because we've enshrined it in our minds.
...or like wishing for Star Wars VII? :nervous: :p
What do people think about donating a largish sum from HLP's PayPal fund? We've got ~$1,300 in there.
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Some details on io9 (http://io9.com/classic-space-battle-sim-freespace-returns-as-a-tableto-1669915912).
I'd be firmly opposed to HLP donating to this, particularly so early on in the piece. The members who want to will donate, but $1300 isn't going to make a significant difference to their $75000 target, but it would make a big difference to us. Maybe, just maybe, if they had $74500 and sixty second to go, but short of that, I think we can find better uses for that cash.
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Seconded
I'd rather see that 1300 go to something useable to the SCP. Kinda like that APNG kickstarter. (Though we have yet to see any results from that)
Or use it if a mod needs some funds for something (like BP voice acting?). Or hell, server costs.
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As for the 'forbidden number 3', I think the thing is, it's like wishing for another symphony from Mozart or for Elvis to write one more song. No matter how good that product is, it will never live up to what was anticipated because we've enshrined it in our minds.
...or like wishing for Star Wars VII? :nervous: :p
If it was done by some half broke company trying to sell it to any writer they could barely find and produce it in really small budget, yeah, I'd totally be against it.
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The only regret I'd have about Freespace 3 is I'd have to rewrite Shetland.
Seriously.
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I'm looking forward to the boardgame just for the miniatures, but I would love a FreeSpace 3 to be developed. I think passion and ingenuity is more important than the funding level of its producer, given that the developers won't profit if their product is crap to begin with. Not for space combat sims anyway.
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The big problem with any potential FS3 now is that an apparently somewhat resurgent Interplay would either demand to be involved, or demand considerable compensation for the IP, and Interplay have, frankly, a terrible track record with Freespace, the dismal, non functional Steam release being merely the latest example.
Tabletop games they may well be able to pull off, but anything digital... Well, without [V] involved, I'd be very nervous. A bad FS game would be worse than no FS Game.
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I'm not really a tabletoppy kinda guy. I do love a bit of painting though. That side of it I could really get into.
But no ££££ from me.
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Even if it was just to get some nice 3D versions of ships I would buy it :D
Well, ok it depends on the price, but you get the idea.
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One small detail I have noticed is that you are including shield markers when shields are a Great War technology
This bothered me too, and I just noticed they answered this question in the comments list:
So petty lore quibble, if this is set in the Terran-Vasudan war why is there a shields mechanic?
@Mathew: For forward compatibility. Not all scenarios use the shields.
EDIT: to -> too
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One small detail I have noticed is that you are including shield markers when shields are a Great War technology
This bothered me to, and I just noticed they answered this question in the comments list:
So petty lore quibble, if this is set in the Terran-Vasudan war why is there a shields mechanic?
@Mathew: For forward compatibility. Not all scenarios use the shields.
That makes sense
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The models look nice. And there is much room for even more fighters and bombers of FS2. But with 21 days left and only 20 - 25 % of the target money acquired I personally doubt that this project will make it into the shops :(
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Yeah, not looking too good. The worst part is that they are using to gauge in interest in further FreeSpace computer games, which makes no sense to me - the failure of one does not mean a lack of interest in the other! For example, I have zero interest in tabletop gaming, but huge interest in further FreeSpace computer games... :doubt:
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I was surprised to see this, as I've long thought of the FS games as not exactly being very popular. There seems to be a resurgence of space sim development recently but I'm not totally convinced that this project is intended to gauge interest in further FS computer games (or just new space sims in general).
That said, the first thing I thought of when I saw the X-Wing tabletop game in my local bookshop was LucasArts's space sims, although obviously there is no direct relationship between the two other than sharing the Star Wars license. I'm not really a tabletop / board game person, but that link alone actually made me consider buying a copy (I doubt I could find an opponent and/or time for it though). Perhaps seeing an FS tabletop game in the shops might make an FS player have the same nostalgia-type reaction I had.
I hope that if this is successful that it would have at the least a knock-on effect in encouraging more space sims being developed, whether that is partly intentional or not.
(BTW there's always Alalabeth Angel's Babylon 5 Wars FS1 and FS2 conversion rules to fall back on...assuming one has a copy of B5 Wars (now out of print)).
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=21751.msg428440#msg428440 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=21751.msg428440#msg428440)
http://knossos.firenebula.com/ (http://knossos.firenebula.com/)
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Really cool. Tho i doubt its officially licensed yet.
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Really cool. Tho i doubt its officially licensed yet.
How do you mean? Interplay is advertising the kickstarter on their website along with the fact that they are apparently working on a new Battlechess.
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I agree with Sandwich. It's disappointing that this could be used to gauge interest for a possible FS3. Go Interplay right? :rolleyes:
For instance, I really don't have interest in this but would certainly buy FS3.
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I DO have an interest in tabletop and boardgames, but this specific one doesn't seem all THAT interesting, so I'm giving it a pass as well.
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seeing the production quality of the kickstarter video...interplay threw these guys to the dogs knowing they'd be torn apart
its very simple to make a decent freespace in Table Top Game: license rights to art and story assets from interplay, then license the x-wing mechanics from fantasy flight as others have done (looking at you attack wing). add some unique mechanics and presto, you have freespace on your table.
never going to happen with FS1 or 2, BUT maybe we could have some official WiH models made to scale and using the same socket system that xwing uses for its bases, make our own freely available cards, add those different mechanics and templates.
even print out cardcraft/plasticard models would be nifty.
you know what, f' it im bored, have drafting software and the will to use it. ill even make up my own rules and release the whole kit an kaboodle right here on HLP.
a TT game that is freely available from HLP that has papercraft models and embodies the spirit of the HLP: imagination and co-operation to bring dreams into being
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Whoa wait, did the kick start time out? WHY IS IT CANCELLED?????
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They were most definitely not going to fund it. They are talking internally about relaunching it:
Thank you, all. We are encouraged by the suggestions. We are talking internally about relaunching, but we would love more feedback on how to make it a better campaign. We have our own ideas on how to improve it, but anything that you would care to share would be most appreciated.
In the meantime, we will cancel this project. We really believe in this game and we're going to spend a little bit of time on how to rework it to make it even better.
Thanks again!
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I'm still waiting on that FPS. One day.... one day.
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Not going to lie - I think an FS FPS would be a lot like a battleship FPS... and that didn't go down very well.
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its very simple to make a decent freespace in Table Top Game: license rights to art and story assets from interplay, then license the x-wing mechanics from fantasy flight as others have done (looking at you attack wing). add some unique mechanics and presto, you have freespace on your table.
Yes very simple to make, not so simple to make a profit. How would a company make any sort of money when they're buying licenses from not one but two companies and presumably paying royalties or licensing fees. That and Freespace is not exactly a big name; they didn't make Freespace 3 for a reason. Compared to the juggernauts of Star Trek and Star Wars, Freespace is a small speck so one cannot look at the success of those games and automatically assume that a Freespace game would make money.
Kids grew up watching, reading and playing Star Wars and Star Trek games both in tabletop form and in video games. Very few people by comparison played Freespace.
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True story, man.
Further, I hate to knock FS on a forum kind of, you know, dedicated to FS, but I think there's another issue at play here: the connection people have with FreeSpace. No, I do not mean familiarity, nostalgia, or other forms of endearment. Rather, there is a literal tactile feeling, or connection, which is missing with FS when you compare it Star Wars, B5, or Star Trek. In those series, you have an understanding of how people interact with their environment (including their ships), because the development of said environment and the characters within are there. Adding to that, you like the characters and the environment (which you have a good perception of), so it's easy to immerse yourself in the setting.
In contrast, FS is a computer game which abides by game mechanics. Any game pertaining to SW, ST, or B5 also has mechanics, but there exists the difference that with these series, the mechanics were secondary, accepted conditions needed in order to play the games; your perception of how things actually worked were more so governed by the cinema and imagination. FreeSpace, because it is only a game, flips this paradigm so that the game mechanics are foremost while what would be more sensible to the mind's eye takes a back seat. I believe this is the premier issue which keeps FS as "just a game." In fact, it's probably the biggest hurdle present when trying to flesh out any game beyond its game form! It's not that FreeSpace can't be what the other mentioned series are, but so long as the idea persists that the game mechanics determine reality rather than letting science fiction do the heavy lifting (e.g. the concept permits a new reality), you're stuck with something that perpetually stays "just a game." ...That goes a little beyond the scope of board game, really, but I think it also explains the lack of interest.
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Further, I hate to knock FS on a forum kind of, you know, dedicated to FS, but I think there's another issue at play here: the connection people have with FreeSpace. No, I do not mean familiarity, nostalgia, or other forms of endearment. Rather, there is a literal tactile feeling, or connection, which is missing with FS when you compare it Star Wars, B5, or Star Trek. In those series, you have an understanding of how people interact with their environment (including their ships), because the development of said environment and the characters within are there. Adding to that, you like the characters and the environment (which you have a good perception of), so it's easy to immerse yourself in the setting.
I disagree completely. One difference, sure, is that FreeSpace was built from the ground up to be a game. But that's kind of beside the point. In reading the FS Bible and their source material - they certainly have enough to let the imagination run wild and to get that connection. But you play Alpha 1 - a character that's well... not a character. This can easily be changed to bring some heavy emotional connection, but I think the long term idea was to give the player more options to create themselves as a pilot (and thus a character). It just never really happened because they were too focused on making a great game.
In contrast, FS is a computer game which abides by game mechanics. Any game pertaining to SW, ST, or B5 also has mechanics, but there exists the difference that with these series, the mechanics were secondary, accepted conditions needed in order to play the games; your perception of how things actually worked were more so governed by the cinema and imagination. FreeSpace, because it is only a game, flips this paradigm so that the game mechanics are foremost while what would be more sensible to the mind's eye takes a back seat. I believe this is the premier issue which keeps FS as "just a game." In fact, it's probably the biggest hurdle present when trying to flesh out any game beyond its game form! It's not that FreeSpace can't be what the other mentioned series are, but so long as the idea persists that the game mechanics determine reality rather than letting science fiction do the heavy lifting (e.g. the concept permits a new reality), you're stuck with something that perpetually stays "just a game." ...That goes a little beyond the scope of board game, really, but I think it also explains the lack of interest.
Honestly, the inconsistency and weaseling away the explanations of physical inconsistencies in those other fictional universes gets on the nerves of nerds like myself. If you're going to create false physics, they should at least be CONSISTENT false physics so that you're consistently wrong in the right way. Characters should also be bound by those fictional limitations and when they are - it is better for the story because it creates genuine tension with an audience.
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Freespace is awesome.
This is a universal truth.
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Freespace is awesome.
This is a universal truth.
I see what you did there.
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Did they cancel Freeace Tactics or are they still going through with it?
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I do believe the Kickstarter failed. A pity, but it wasn't a reasonable funding goal to begin with.
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I know what you mean, was really looking foward to it. :nono:
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Merging with the other thread.
The Kickstarter was voluntarily withdrawn by the project creator before the deadline, though it was clear from the rate of supporters that it wouldn't have reached the threshold in time.