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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Solatar on July 23, 2002, 12:56:20 pm

Title: About ship types
Post by: Solatar on July 23, 2002, 12:56:20 pm
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but i think that the ship types (i.e. Cruisers, destroyers, etc..) are wrong for the ships. The light cruisers like the Aten, Cain, and Fenris, are like gunboats. the heavy cruiser like the Lilith, and Leviathan, are like destroyers.  And the destroyers are like cruisers. What's up with this? Actually, the Destroyers are a cross between carriers and cruisers.
Title: About ship types
Post by: Black Wolf on July 23, 2002, 01:03:07 pm
Yeah, it's been discussed several times. I think the FS ones are more appropriate though.
Title: About ship types
Post by: Hudzy on July 23, 2002, 04:18:31 pm
It wouldn't do to change them now though. That would just be confusing.
Title: About ship types
Post by: Kitsune on July 23, 2002, 04:49:27 pm
Yup, old subject matter.

It was mentioned that the ships were designed after WWI designations in terms of power where the cruiser was often a supporting ship to help cover against smaller ones.
Where the destroyer often carried medium sized weapons, though mostly torpedoes.  Which made up for it's smaller size.

However, battle-cruisers were still the next step below a battleship, right up till the end of the wars in the asian theaters (korea, vietnam).

By then tactics had changed so much that the Battleship and battle-cruiser didn't have the same value as it had before due to aircraft-carriers being able to launch fighters and torpedoe planes from a hundred miles outside of their weapons ranges.

So now all we have are destroyers, cruisers, 'tenders, carriers, and the nuclear subs parked in our enemies back yards...
Title: About ship types
Post by: Solatar on July 23, 2002, 04:59:32 pm
You absolutely right. It would be FAR to confusing to change them. But I like the Freespace ones better anyway.
Title: About ship types
Post by: aldo_14 on July 24, 2002, 04:44:09 pm
Let's face it...what sounds better to you?

Destroyer - built to blow stuff up.

Cruiser - built to mince around the place at a slow constant velocity.
Title: About ship types
Post by: mikhael on July 24, 2002, 05:37:51 pm
Destroyer just screams 'pitiful little pansy ship' to me.

Its all about background. If you don't have a naval background, sure, 'destroyer' sounds cool. But if you do have one, even a bit of one, 'battleship' conjures up images of raw power and destroyers are just those things you use for hunting subs (or as submarine decoys, if you're a bubblehead).
Title: About ship types
Post by: Galemp on July 24, 2002, 06:30:18 pm
I like the FS designations. Destroyers destroy, cruisers cruise, fighters fight, and bombers bomb. Nothing wrong there.
Title: About ship types
Post by: penguin on July 24, 2002, 07:57:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
I like the FS designations. Destroyers destroy, cruisers cruise, fighters fight, and bombers bomb. Nothing wrong there.

:lol:

And what do corvettes do?  ;)
Title: About ship types
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on July 24, 2002, 08:40:59 pm
carve-et up ? (fs2 box)
Title: About ship types
Post by: LtNarol on July 24, 2002, 09:15:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
I like the FS designations. Destroyers destroy, cruisers cruise, fighters fight, and bombers bomb. Nothing wrong there.


Quote
Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
carve-et up ? (fs2 box)


Heh, too true...I personally like the fs2 designations despite being somewhat off; destroyer just sounds more buff than cruiser.
Title: About ship types
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on July 25, 2002, 02:12:44 pm
I much prefer the Homeworld system of ship classes, with corvettes being only slightly larger than fighters, and heavy cruisers being the largest, but then I am slightly TAPped, hahaha.
Terrible, isn't it.:D
Title: About ship types
Post by: RandomTiger on July 25, 2002, 03:22:38 pm
I wish I had some yogurt
Title: About ship types
Post by: aldo_14 on July 25, 2002, 04:41:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Destroyer just screams 'pitiful little pansy ship' to me.

Its all about background. If you don't have a naval background, sure, 'destroyer' sounds cool. But if you do have one, even a bit of one, 'battleship' conjures up images of raw power and destroyers are just those things you use for hunting subs (or as submarine decoys, if you're a bubblehead).


Well...yeah.  Most people don't really know about navy desigs, though.   But 'battleship' isn't really right for a space game....

and 'cruiser' still sounds a bit mincy.
Title: About ship types
Post by: Knight Templar on July 25, 2002, 04:56:13 pm
lol search is A- 1 Supar!!!  :D :D


I think the naval system is best.

Destroyers in FS should be known "Battle Cruisers" imho.
or maybe Star Cruisers.... Corvettes could be called Star Cruisers, followed by Frigates like the Iceni, the "Destroyers" (Leviathen and lillith) followed by corvettes and i perosnally thing that there should be gunships. Like the size of some of the freighters but with laser and missle turrets.

The First (and possibly the second one too) FS kinda let me down with lack of cap ships. the game would be even better if theyre were bundles of cap ships. and the whole leviathen/fenris/cain/lillith thing kinda pissed me off. it just seemed like a rip off to me. they should have gotten rid of the cain and the leviathen and made diff. ships.

oh well, i'll shut up now.
Title: About ship types
Post by: Stealth on July 25, 2002, 06:05:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger
I wish I had some yogurt



eh?
(damn i hate using this smilie, but in this case i think it's appropriate:  *sigh*... oh well, here goes:  :wtf:

talking about ship designations, i think i may as well advertise my website! :D  :  http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/stealth/

click on 'information'
Title: About ship types
Post by: Knight Templar on July 25, 2002, 07:23:00 pm
lol nice pimpin'.  Cool site btw, goes under favorites, just in case
Title: About ship types
Post by: karajorma on July 26, 2002, 03:08:46 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
The First (and possibly the second one too) FS kinda let me down with lack of cap ships. the game would be even better if theyre were bundles of cap ships. and the whole leviathen/fenris/cain/lillith thing kinda pissed me off. it just seemed like a rip off to me. they should have gotten rid of the cain and the leviathen and made diff. ships.


Actually the whole thing is far more realistic. Most military ships tend to be refitted during their career to give them better weapons. It's not much of a stretch to imagine it happening to the fenris exactly the way they said. The terrans were at war and needed a defensive line of cruisers quickly. Improving the armour on the fenris makes perfect sense.
Title: About ship types
Post by: phreak on July 26, 2002, 09:45:08 am
they need a battle ship class in FS. about the size of a destroyer with about 50 turrets

(http://www.battleship.org/images/bb61fb.jpg)
Title: About ship types
Post by: Knight Templar on July 26, 2002, 03:53:59 pm
Quote
Actually the whole thing is far more realistic. Most military ships tend to be refitted during their career to give them better weapons. It's not much of a stretch to imagine it happening to the fenris exactly the way they said. The terrans were at war and needed a defensive line of cruisers quickly. Improving the armour on the fenris makes perfect sense


Tru tru, perhaps i was a lil' hasty in my opinion, but what i think i meant was that i would have found it more acceptable/funner, if there were more than 3 cap ships on each side.


Personally the destroyers were a joke..... Bundles of armour and ****, but qhat like 16 turrets on a orion? seriosuly, u could hope in a loki, find some undefended spot under the hull and pound away until she blows. w/e just my 2c
Title: About ship types
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 26, 2002, 04:08:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth
talking about ship designations, i think i may as well advertise my website! :D  :  http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/stealth/

click on 'information'

Quote
GTVA-Galactic Terran Vasudan AWACS

Poor Colossus...and here everyone thought it was supposed to be a super Destroyer...
Title: About ship types
Post by: aldo_14 on July 26, 2002, 05:00:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk
they need a battle ship class in FS. about the size of a destroyer with about 50 turrets

http://www.battleship.org/images/bb61fb.jpg


Actually, I always judged the class inbetween destroyer-juggernaugh as Dreadnaught class........
Title: About ship types
Post by: Knight Templar on July 27, 2002, 09:35:46 pm
Quote
Actually, I always judged the class inbetween destroyer-juggernaugh as Dreadnaught class........


and you were wrong?
Title: About ship types
Post by: Kitsune on July 29, 2002, 01:52:05 am
Nice piccie of a battleship in action.

Did you know when a battleship gives a full broadside with it's main guns, it knocks the boat in the opposite direction of up to a foot and a half depending on the angle of the guns?
Title: About ship types
Post by: Knight Templar on July 29, 2002, 02:44:48 am
i didn't know that, but i feel safer now that i do. :D
Title: About ship types
Post by: Pegasus V on July 29, 2002, 03:03:24 am
Gathered from Dictionary.com and several other sources, I've assembled a list of ship names 'n' stuff in the order of their power:

Shuttle
Interceptor
Fighter (1)
Bomber (2)
Gunship
Galley
Galleon
Corvette (4)
Destroyer (6)
Light Carrier*
Frigate (5)^
Cruiser (3)
Heavy Carrier*
BattleCruiser
BattleShip
Dreadnaught
Juggernaught (7)
Mobile Fortress

(#) = Freespace order number
* = Light, heavy, I just made that up. It depends upon how big the carrier is, so I can't really include it in this list properly.
^ = I'm refering to the Iceni


-edit- The frigate thingo.
Title: About ship types
Post by: Knight Templar on July 29, 2002, 11:04:00 pm
well the only "frigate" in FS2 was the iceni, which i beilieve was slightly more powerful tha a deimos class corvette
Title: About ship types
Post by: Pegasus V on July 29, 2002, 11:09:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
well the only "frigate" in FS2 was the iceni, which i beilieve was slightly more powerful tha a deimos class corvette


I was refering to the Medical frigate. Only cos the pof is named frigate2t-01 or whatever... I should have put a * next to that... I forgot about the Iceni. The refered to it as a Command Frigate didn't they?
Title: About ship types
Post by: Knight Templar on July 30, 2002, 01:39:24 am
ok but essential its the same thing and the "medical frigate" is also known as a medical ship, not to mention its not really a millatary vessel
Title: About ship types
Post by: Pegasus V on July 30, 2002, 02:09:21 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
...not to mention its not really a millatary vessel


-edit- = Good call. :yes:
Title: About ship types
Post by: Knight Templar on July 30, 2002, 02:25:49 am
hehe thank yee
Title: About ship types
Post by: StratComm on July 30, 2002, 09:29:31 am
I've said this somewhere else, but I think that "frigate" is used in FS more to designate a special-purpose vessel than to identify a specific warship class.  "Medical frigate" is actually a class that goes back to Star Wars, and it just sounds right, while the Iceni is more of a heavy corvette used for the special purpose of Bosch's command ship/ETAK platform.  And although the Iceni is bigger than a Deimos, it doesn't really stand up that well in a firefight, so to call it a higher order ship in terms of firepower is sort of unreasonable.  My version of the FS designation system, by size and firepower:

1)  Escape Pod - Not going here.  Lets crew escape, otherwise a big missile if necessity forces.

2)  Drone - Unmanned, small craft, potentially armed but only lightly.  Contains minimal systems necessary for space flight and navigation.  Drones are not currently employed by the GTVA, and only make cameo appearances in training simulators.

3)  Fighter - Small, single-man attack craft, capable of mounting a wide array of basic pulse armaments and missiles.

4)  Bomber - Single- or two-man attack craft, more bulky and heavily armored than a fighter but slower, capable of mounting anti-cap ship bombs as well as pulse weapons and missiles.

5)  Transport - Unarmed or lightly armed military or civilian transport craft, capable of transporting large numbers of crew or limited raw materials in sealed, pressurized internal bays

6)  Freighter - Unarmed or lightly armed military or civilian transport craft, with no internal storage but dockpoints for a variety of specialized cargo containers.

7)  Cruiser - Warships up to 600 meters in length, lightly armed and armored, generally used to fend off fighter and bomber attacks, and operate with minimal crew (100+).

8)  Corvette - Warships between 600 and 1,500 meters in length with no or partial fighterbay, 15-30 turrets, and a medium crew compliment (750+)

9)  Destroyer - Warships between 1,500 and 2,250 meters in length, with full fighterbay, 30+ turrets, and a large crew compliment (5,000+)

10)  Carrier* - Destroyer sized ships with less firepower and more fighterbay capacity.

11)  Superdestroyer - Warships between 2,250 and 5,000 meters in length, with a 40+ turrets or a superweapon.  Extensive armor and very large crew compliment. (12,000+)

12)  Dreadnaut**/Juggernaut*** - Warships over 5,000 meters in length, with 50+ turrets (up to 90 or more), a large fighterbay, extreme armor, and a massive crew compliment (20,000+).

*Not used by :V:
**Not used by :V:, can be used alternately for Juggernaut
***Only assigned to what was initially believed to be a Shivan superweapon; should not be used to designate a warship of the GTVA.  

But hey, this is just me.

And if you are making a TC of any kind, sticking with the FS designations isn't really helpful anyway.