Just to nail this down, exactly HOW long would it take for non-subspace radio transmissions to travel back and forth between Sol and Alpha Centauri?
That's assuming that the locations connected by subspace jump nodes are linked to same time through normal space. There is no guarantee that is the case.
Clearly, all locations interconnected by jump nodes share a stable time coordinate, which allows a multi-system civilization to exist in a meaningful sense, and more importantly maintains some kind of story continuum. But the fact that intersystem nodes basically connect parts of space through a shortcut (subspace), it is just as likely that there may be a temporal shift as you travel through the node as well.
Perhaps as you travel from Sol to Delta Serpentis via the original node, you don't emerge in the "same time" as when you left Earth. You may be decades or centuries off. There's really no guarantee. This is not mentioned in the games, but I think it's entirely plausible that traveling to Alpha Centauri through the nodes may actually mean you're in a different time than Earth.
And that's assuming that you're even in the same universe. In fact, since jump nodes leading to future or especially to the past have a tendency to generate brain-imploding paradoxes, it's entirely possible that each jump node leads to a different universe altogether, just to make sure that future Terrans can't communicate with past Earth from Alpha Centauri, or vice versa...
IIRC correctly from GCSE physics lessons, radio waves essentially travel at the speed of light (someone please correct me if I am wrong). Now, I thought Alpha Centauri was actually 4.5 light years away from earth, but TheHound says its 4.3 light years. So, there is your answer for the time it takes a message to go one way!
The only other way to communicate faster than the speed of light, I imagine would involve a technology which would utilise tachyon particles, which can travel faster than light. How fast tachyons travel has not yet been measured as far as I am aware, because I think they are still a theorised exotic particle.Spoiler:Blue Planet touches on this in WiH Act 3 when it says that they had already had some kind of contact with earth, which gives reasons for why the Tevs started to attack Sol!
This is such an ugly attempt at patching the universe it's better to just leave the red herring of relativistic communications unmentioned altogether.
That's assuming that the locations connected by subspace jump nodes are linked to same time through normal space. There is no guarantee that is the case.
Clearly, all locations interconnected by jump nodes share a stable time coordinate, which allows a multi-system civilization to exist in a meaningful sense, and more importantly maintains some kind of story continuum. But the fact that intersystem nodes basically connect parts of space through a shortcut (subspace), it is just as likely that there may be a temporal shift as you travel through the node as well.
Perhaps as you travel from Sol to Delta Serpentis via the original node, you don't emerge in the "same time" as when you left Earth. You may be decades or centuries off. There's really no guarantee. This is not mentioned in the games, but I think it's entirely plausible that traveling to Alpha Centauri through the nodes may actually mean you're in a different time than Earth.
And that's assuming that you're even in the same universe. In fact, since jump nodes leading to future or especially to the past have a tendency to generate brain-imploding paradoxes, it's entirely possible that each jump node leads to a different universe altogether, just to make sure that future Terrans can't communicate with past Earth from Alpha Centauri, or vice versa...
So in an effort to find interesting tangents to this topic, I observe this: FS intrasystem jumps are, apparently, able to navigate through the entire solar system with ease. In the densest parts of globular clusters, the average distance between stars is about the same distance; so you should be able to jump continuously between hundreds or thousands of stars, as opposed to a single system. Discuss.
Well, I think that command DID contact with Sol, but kept the contact within very high level of security, so alpha 1 couldn't know it, and later, they had more to worry about, like the Shivans.
Only persons like the leader of the security council, or general assembly would be the ones to know.
IIRC correctly from GCSE physics lessons, radio waves essentially travel at the speed of light (someone please correct me if I am wrong). Now, I thought Alpha Centauri was actually 4.5 light years away from earth, but TheHound says its 4.3 light years. So, there is your answer for the time it takes a message to go one way!
The only other way to communicate faster than the speed of light, I imagine would involve a technology which would utilise tachyon particles, which can travel faster than light. How fast tachyons travel has not yet been measured as far as I am aware, because I think they are still a theorised exotic particle.Spoiler:Blue Planet touches on this in WiH Act 3 when it says that they had already had some kind of contact with earth, which gives reasons for why the Tevs started to attack Sol!
Radio waves travel at the speed of light because they are light. FTL communication obviously exists in the Freespace universe (your conversations with command don't have any latency, and besides you could just have a courier jump around with your messages); but it seems to follow the same rules as FTL travel: constrained to within a system or through jump nodes.
Can habitable planets (for Terrans/Vasudans) exist in globular clusters? Or would all infrastructure need to exist in orbit?
i'm kinda up for the idea of earth being all "what the **** did you people do. why did capella explode" and the gtva being all "well excuuuuse us it was the shivans"
No, I mean like, the GTVA sends a status update right after the Capella supernova and get a angry update from Sol years later :P
Also I have a feeling that the original game devs didn't have Wikipedia in 1998 so they didn't know that Alpha Centauri and Earth were so close.I thought that was common knowledge.
So in an effort to find interesting tangents to this topic, I observe this: FS intrasystem jumps are, apparently, able to navigate through the entire solar system with ease. In the densest parts of globular clusters, the average distance between stars is about the same distance; so you should be able to jump continuously between hundreds or thousands of stars, as opposed to a single system. Discuss.
Why would they keep it secret though? Even if its a slow communication they can use it for morale and information transfer.
I thought the whole point of the GTVA invasion is because they looked upon Sol and the UEF in particular and decided that public knowledge the UEF and its ideologies would erode support for a military solution to the shivan threat. knowledge regarding UEF coming from communication/signal intelligence from Sol prior to the probes going through the Sol Gate.
Yes, but let's talk about other interpretations besides BPs here now.
Ok The E... I will start with that!
There was actually a campaign I played late last year which was a two parter. The first part dealt with the Shivans deciding to let us be alone, then the focus turned inwards with an Earth revolt. I've forgotten the name of the campaign, but communication was actually maintained between Sol and the GTVA, as technology was shared. It meant that both sides had super destroyers in the form of heavily modified Hecate destroyers.
I'll see if I can find it now and edit this post accordingly when I do!
EDIT:- I believe the campaign was Incursion followed by Return to Sol!
That's assuming that the locations connected by subspace jump nodes are linked to same time through normal space. There is no guarantee that is the case.
Clearly, all locations interconnected by jump nodes share a stable time coordinate, which allows a multi-system civilization to exist in a meaningful sense, and more importantly maintains some kind of story continuum. But the fact that intersystem nodes basically connect parts of space through a shortcut (subspace), it is just as likely that there may be a temporal shift as you travel through the node as well.
Perhaps as you travel from Sol to Delta Serpentis via the original node, you don't emerge in the "same time" as when you left Earth. You may be decades or centuries off. There's really no guarantee. This is not mentioned in the games, but I think it's entirely plausible that traveling to Alpha Centauri through the nodes may actually mean you're in a different time than Earth.
And that's assuming that you're even in the same universe. In fact, since jump nodes leading to future or especially to the past have a tendency to generate brain-imploding paradoxes, it's entirely possible that each jump node leads to a different universe altogether, just to make sure that future Terrans can't communicate with past Earth from Alpha Centauri, or vice versa...
This is such an ugly attempt at patching the universe it's better to just leave the red herring of relativistic communications unmentioned altogether.
So in an effort to find interesting tangents to this topic, I observe this: FS intrasystem jumps are, apparently, able to navigate through the entire solar system with ease. In the densest parts of globular clusters, the average distance between stars is about the same distance; so you should be able to jump continuously between hundreds or thousands of stars, as opposed to a single system. Discuss.
I actually think it's an incredible possibility that I hadn't thought about, and the closest reference I can come up with is something brought out from Old Man's War. Patches of space completely independent from each other both in space but also in time, it's an incredible sci fi setup! I absolutely love it. It brings up paradoxes on their own but that could be dealt with if you thought it through. I'm surprised here. I really am.
Doesn't mean I think it's "FS canon". Of course not. It more resembles something from Sync than FreeSpace. But Sync does exist.
Alpha Centauri is 3 not 4 starts. Close enough though. :)
I actually think it's an incredible possibility that I hadn't thought about, and the closest reference I can come up with is something brought out from Old Man's War. Patches of space completely independent from each other both in space but also in time, it's an incredible sci fi setup! I absolutely love it. It brings up paradoxes on their own but that could be dealt with if you thought it through. I'm surprised here. I really am.
Doesn't mean I think it's "FS canon". Of course not. It more resembles something from Sync than FreeSpace. But Sync does exist.
It's a cool idea but it's completely opposed to the stock Freespace tone. That's why it's a bad answer to the radio question; it's like using a hand grenade to kill a mosquito.
FreeSpace one: StarShip Troopers with a hint of Alien.Now look what you've done. I've got this vision of the bug attack on the fortress from Starship Troopers with the bugs replaced with Shivans... :lol:
And all of the hundreds of fan mods and stories that have been written and/or made over the last decade all adhere to "stock Freespace tone"? Or, do you really think they have to? I, for one, encourage new ideas and new stories to try out. Especially nuclear options that have the potential to inspire countless other new ideas by breaking away from what we've done for ten years.
*yawn* Whatever dude.And all of the hundreds of fan mods and stories that have been written and/or made over the last decade all adhere to "stock Freespace tone"? Or, do you really think they have to? I, for one, encourage new ideas and new stories to try out. Especially nuclear options that have the potential to inspire countless other new ideas by breaking away from what we've done for ten years.
I don't see the point in shackling yourself to the Freespace universe at all if you're going to be doing something that drastic.
There are quite a number of reasons why you would want to bring up a whole cloth of baggage into your "new thing". One of them might be that you want to subvert expectations. Other might be that you want to unravel other facets to the "universe" that weren't apparent in the original but are somehow "lurking beneath". The "grenade" idea of blowing spacetime in the nodes is a further development on the idea of how we are incredibly insignificant in the wider history of the universe, and that aspect was part and parcel of the "Freespace tone". At least in the second.You could just put your own stamp on it, kind of like with that Another Great War campaign. Or an alternate universe thing.
I brought up "Old Man's War" for a reason. I don't want to spoil the book, read it.
Of course you can. My point is that you can also use FreeSpace universe to do it, and that doing so is not an idiotic exercise, much to the contrary.I agree. And I know what you were getting at with Old Man's War too. It's certainly an interesting direction to imagine going in.