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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 02:14:22 pm

Title: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 02:14:22 pm
We've already got one.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=79574.340
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Scotty on April 14, 2015, 02:20:26 pm
Take a look at the year marker on that one, Lorric.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: StarSlayer on April 14, 2015, 02:24:32 pm
Take a look at the year marker on that one, Lorric.
Yes look

/me Evil Russian Laughter
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 02:29:05 pm
Take a look at the year marker on that one, Lorric.
Yes look

/me Evil Russian Laughter
:lol: :yes:

On a serious note I don't see why we have to bin the old one and start a new one. And have all those posts sink away in a thread that has been consistently posted in and 2015 hasn't magically stopped people posting in it.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: The E on April 14, 2015, 02:46:03 pm
Take a look at the year marker on that one, Lorric.
Yes look

/me Evil Russian Laughter
:lol: :yes:

On a serious note I don't see why we have to bin the old one and start a new one. And have all those posts sink away in a thread that has been consistently posted in and 2015 hasn't magically stopped people posting in it.

I don't see why, instead of using the report function, you felt the need to jump in to backseat moderate again.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 02:54:09 pm
Oh, so that's how it's going to be, is it...

I had higher hopes for you after we chatted nicely in the Puppies thread yesterday. I guess I was wrong.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: The E on April 14, 2015, 02:59:30 pm
We can chat on topic. I have little patience for meta stuff right now, especially things like "Should this thread be merged?". Had you opened a report, I wouldn't have been in any way offended or aggravated, but no, you decided to make a post about it, derailing the thread. I won't have that.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 03:01:40 pm
Alright, that's fair.

Old thread's been running since 2012. Why do we need to throw all those posts in the bin?

I have to step away for half an hour or so now just so you know.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Scotty on April 14, 2015, 03:03:29 pm
Alright, that's fair.

Old thread's been running since 2012. Why do we need to throw all those posts in the bin?

I have to step away for half an hour or so now just so you know.

Lorric are you totally incapable of realizing that you're still doing it?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 03:35:54 pm
We can chat on topic.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 03:39:10 pm
Okay, so this is a bit of an experiment. Let's see if we can get a thread going about books, novellas, short stories and graphic novels the way our music and anime threads are going. What I would like to see here are books you are reading, or are excited to be reading in the near future.
Is that not the point of the "What Literature Be Ya Absorbed In? (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=79574.0)" thread?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: The E on April 14, 2015, 03:40:35 pm
Yes, I somehow forgot and then forgot to merge the threads.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 03:52:51 pm
Yes, I somehow forgot and then forgot to merge the threads.
That's what I said. Why did it take Ralwood to point that out?

We point out that there's already a thread for things all the time, in thread. Thread gets merged. That's what I did. Why did we need all this? Why was the thread not just merged after I posted? Did you click my link?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 03:59:36 pm
That's what I said.
Well, no, that's not what you said:
We've already got one.
That is not the same thing as:
Is that not the point of the "What Literature Be Ya Absorbed In?" thread?

(But of course, I wouldn't even have posted that, had I read the other thread first; that was just exceedingly unlikely given reading posts from oldest to newest and not waiting until every thread has been read before replying.)
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 04:03:21 pm
Well clicking the link makes it clear. And even if the link wasn't clicked what came after it made it pretty damn crystal clear.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 04:04:57 pm
Well clicking the link makes it clear. And even if the link wasn't clicked what came after it made it pretty damn crystal clear.
No no no, Lorric, I removed the links because they're not the focus of my point. What is the primary difference between those two quotes?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 04:15:47 pm
Well clicking the link makes it clear. And even if the link wasn't clicked what came after it made it pretty damn crystal clear.
No no no, Lorric, I removed the links because they're not the focus of my point. What is the primary difference between those two quotes?
You asked the question.

Me, it was different. I read his description of the "experiment" he was going to do, and stated "we've already got one" as it was no different to the literature thread.

I don't need to explain this with a laser focus. Clicking the link makes it clear.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 04:32:02 pm
Well clicking the link makes it clear. And even if the link wasn't clicked what came after it made it pretty damn crystal clear.
No no no, Lorric, I removed the links because they're not the focus of my point. What is the primary difference between those two quotes?
You asked the question.
Correct! I asked for clarification: "Is that not the same as this other thread? (implication: Have I missed something? Did you make a mistake?)"
You asserted that we already had an identical thread: "We've already got a thread for that. (implication: I have already decided that you ****ed up, and I feel compelled to point this out.)"

One of these is not like the other.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 04:33:47 pm
Don't put words in my mouth.

I asserted something that was obviously correct. And I was correct.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 04:41:32 pm
Don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't. Do you know what the word "implication" means?

I asserted something that was obviously correct. And I was correct.
So even after having it explicitly spelled out to you, you have no idea what you did wrong. Okay. Good to know.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 04:42:49 pm
So I suppose this little snark post is just fine.

Was the other thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=88112.0) insufficient for some reason?

See how ridiculous this argument is?

I'm pretty sure there's more where that came from, and I can find them.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 04:47:33 pm
So I suppose this little snark post is just fine.

Was the other thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=88112.0) insufficient for some reason?

See how ridiculous this argument is?

I'm pretty sure there's more where that came from, and I can find them.
You mean how I was asking a question again?

But let's assume that I have, in the past, made a post identical in form to yours. Why exactly does somebody else having done something wrong at some point in the past make it okay for you to do something wrong in the present? Why does your established pattern of behavior not matter to how people react to your posts now?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 04:51:45 pm
I find your reasoning flawed. You've pulled that out of nowhere, your aggressive interpretation of my post.

Let's go back to the post I produced of yours. If that was just a straight question with no intended snark, then it is I who have interpreted it wrong.

This quote of mine, it is you who have interpreted it wrong. It is impossible to speak with perfect clarity. There will always be misunderstandings. So people talk to each other to clear them up.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 04:54:07 pm
I find your reasoning flawed. You've pulled that out of nowhere, your aggressive interpretation of my post.

Let's go back to the post I produced of yours. If that was just a straight question with no intended snark, then it is I who have interpreted it wrong.

This quote of mine, it is you who have interpreted it wrong. It is impossible to speak with perfect clarity. There will always be misunderstandings. So people talk to each other to clear them up.
I didn't interpret your post; I let you know what the implications of your phrasing were. Yes, there will always be misunderstandings; that's why my post was a question asking for clarification. Did you seek clarification in your post?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 05:05:54 pm
I didn't need it. I was correct. I stated a fact.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 05:12:30 pm
I didn't need it. I was correct. I stated a fact.
:banghead:

You turned out to be correct in the end. You stated your interpretation of the situation, which turned out to be correct. This is not the same thing as stating a fact. You axiomatically assumed that your interpretation of the situation was correct and acted accordingly, without any accordance for the possibility that you might be wrong and the way in which you expressed this conveys the implications I was trying to point out to you earlier.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 05:26:18 pm
I will seek a second opinion on this. But I don't see anything wrong with stating a fact that is a fact.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 05:34:48 pm
I'm bringing this back to the front because I still wish to know the answer.

Yes, I somehow forgot and then forgot to merge the threads.
That's what I said. Why did it take Ralwood to point that out?

We point out that there's already a thread for things all the time, in thread. Thread gets merged. That's what I did. Why did we need all this? Why was the thread not just merged after I posted? Did you click my link?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 05:42:31 pm
I'm bringing this back to the front because I still wish to know the answer.

Yes, I somehow forgot and then forgot to merge the threads.
That's what I said. Why did it take Ralwood to point that out?

We point out that there's already a thread for things all the time, in thread. Thread gets merged. That's what I did. Why did we need all this? Why was the thread not just merged after I posted? Did you click my link?
Why does your established pattern of behavior not matter to how people react to your posts now?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 05:49:19 pm
What are you saying?

If you're saying what I think you're saying, all I did was state a fact. Even if you felt someone was metaphorically punching you in the face with facts they're still facts. You would still absorb that information and act on it.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 05:51:57 pm
What are you saying?
I'm saying that your posts do not exist in a context-free vacuum; they exist in the context of every post you have ever made. Why do you think your past behavior should have no impact on how people react to your posts today?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 05:56:11 pm
What are you saying?
I'm saying that your posts do not exist in a context-free vacuum; they exist in the context of every post you have ever made. Why do you think your past behavior should have no impact on how people react to your posts today?
I don't.

But you don't know me. You need to throw all of that away and start over.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 05:59:23 pm
What are you saying?
I'm saying that your posts do not exist in a context-free vacuum; they exist in the context of every post you have ever made. Why do you think your past behavior should have no impact on how people react to your posts today?
I don't.

But you don't know me. You need to throw all of that away and start over.
Those two paragraphs are inherently contradictory. You cannot simultaneously not think your past behavior should have no impact on how people react to your posts today and tell people to throw out your past behavior and "start over".
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 06:04:50 pm
Let me try again.

I do not think people should pretend the past doesn't exist.

What I am saying is your opinion of me (and I mean this encompassing a number of people) is badly wrong. So it should be tossed out completely and restarted. As in, it's possible to go back to the past if you feel it necessary, but with a clean slate to re-evaluate. I can help with getting to know the real me if you talk and listen to me and it stays civil.

I do not like this acrimonious relationship I have with certain people around here any more than you do, but a lot of it is rage against a construct that isn't me, a strawman that's been put in my place.

Also, holding grudges is going to damage any chance of reconciliation quite badly.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 06:07:49 pm
What I am saying is your opinion of me (and I mean this encompassing a number of people) is badly wrong. So it should be tossed out completely and restarted. As in, it's possible to go back to the past if you feel it necessary, but with a clean slate to re-evaluate. I can help with getting to know the real me if you talk and listen to me and it stays civil.

I do not like this acrimonious relationship I have with certain people around here any more than you do, but a lot of it is rage against a construct that isn't me, a strawman that's been put in my place.
Your behavior in this thread alone is enough to cause friction with the rest of the userbase; the fact that you are apparently unaware of this is part of the problem.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Luis Dias on April 14, 2015, 06:08:29 pm
I find all this Lorric bashing to be intolerable, gruesome, ridiculous.

That is all.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 06:12:43 pm
What I am saying is your opinion of me (and I mean this encompassing a number of people) is badly wrong. So it should be tossed out completely and restarted. As in, it's possible to go back to the past if you feel it necessary, but with a clean slate to re-evaluate. I can help with getting to know the real me if you talk and listen to me and it stays civil.

I do not like this acrimonious relationship I have with certain people around here any more than you do, but a lot of it is rage against a construct that isn't me, a strawman that's been put in my place.
Your behavior in this thread alone is enough to cause friction with the rest of the userbase; the fact that you are apparently unaware of this is part of the problem.
I'm not trying to brush this thread away.

I am going to get my second opinion and if my second opinion sways me, I will accede. I've changed my HLP behaviour plenty of times before, and I can do it again. That is also a good reason why the past should be forgotten. 2015 Lorric is a World away from 2012 or even 2013 Lorric and significantly different to 2014 Lorric.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 06:20:28 pm
I find all this Lorric bashing to be intolerable, gruesome, ridiculous.

That is all.
If you are referring to the contents of this thread, I would ask you to please point it out, because I'm not seeing it.

If, however, you instead mean the general tenor of conversation whenever Lorric's name is mentioned on IRC, I will concede you might have a point about it being "gruesome", but it is clearly neither "intolerable" (since I haven't seen anybody get banned, kicked, or even sternly warned over it) nor "ridiculous", since it is in reaction to his own behavior.

What I am saying is your opinion of me (and I mean this encompassing a number of people) is badly wrong. So it should be tossed out completely and restarted. As in, it's possible to go back to the past if you feel it necessary, but with a clean slate to re-evaluate. I can help with getting to know the real me if you talk and listen to me and it stays civil.

I do not like this acrimonious relationship I have with certain people around here any more than you do, but a lot of it is rage against a construct that isn't me, a strawman that's been put in my place.
Your behavior in this thread alone is enough to cause friction with the rest of the userbase; the fact that you are apparently unaware of this is part of the problem.
I'm not trying to brush this thread away.

I am going to get my second opinion and if my second opinion sways me, I will accede. I've changed my HLP behaviour plenty of times before, and I can do it again. That is also a good reason why the past should be forgotten. 2015 Lorric is a World away from 2012 or even 2013 Lorric and significantly different to 2014 Lorric.
If you're relying on only one external opinion, and/or keep asking the same person(s) for outside opinions, that may explain why so many people feel like you are incapable of learning from your mistakes.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 06:26:40 pm
I'll let Luis elaborate on that.

The part addressed to me, the second opinion is going to be Zacam. The second opinion has been Zacam for a while and he's changed me in numerous ways. Prior to that there have been others.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 06:29:42 pm
the second opinion is going to be Zacam. The second opinion has been Zacam for a while and he's changed me in numerous ways. Prior to that there have been others.
So you only get one external opinion, and regularly go to the same person every time. This, indeed, explains a great deal.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 06:32:56 pm
the second opinion is going to be Zacam. The second opinion has been Zacam for a while and he's changed me in numerous ways. Prior to that there have been others.
So you only get one external opinion, and regularly go to the same person every time. This, indeed, explains a great deal.
Now who's the one stating things as if they are axiomatic. Practice what you preach.

And let's not forget you got me to the point of seeking the second opinion. I considered your words. You could potentially have taken me all the way if I'd felt you gave a strong enough argument. As it is, you've put me in a position of uncertainty. Though you've done some damage to your cause with that post, but I'll still talk to Zacam.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on April 14, 2015, 06:38:18 pm
the second opinion is going to be Zacam. The second opinion has been Zacam for a while and he's changed me in numerous ways. Prior to that there have been others.
So you only get one external opinion, and regularly go to the same person every time. This, indeed, explains a great deal.
Now who's the one stating things as if they are axiomatic. Practice what you preach.
You seem confused; "This explains a great deal" means that I now have a greater understanding of your behavior. This has entirely to do with my subjective experience; there's nothing axiomatic about stating my personal experience.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Phantom Hoover on April 14, 2015, 06:39:36 pm
2015 Lorric is a World away from 2012 or even 2013 Lorric and significantly different to 2014 Lorric.

And yet here you are demonstrating the same basic behaviour that you were back then.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Lorric on April 14, 2015, 06:40:47 pm
Alright AR, would you care to specify what you believe you now understand?
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Axem on April 14, 2015, 06:45:33 pm
If you guys have issues you want to work out with each other, go to private messaging. This thread has all the potential of a powder keg.

Thread locked.
Title: Re: Talk unrelated to books in 2015
Post by: Zacam on April 14, 2015, 08:10:50 pm
Wow. Okay, THIS should not have happened. FFS.

I wish anybody, somebody, would have reached out to me so I could have helped prevent this.

My apologies, everybody. I'll see what I can do about this. While I'm working it out, I have no choice but to see to it that everybody gets some breathing room.

Edit: I'm also sorry that I wasn't attentive enough to have caught this on my own.