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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: wardog300k on June 04, 2015, 02:48:57 pm

Title: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 04, 2015, 02:48:57 pm
After seeing the ,,Not a fan of Perseus" thread,I actually wanted to know which fighter is the most loved and flown.So,write which one is your favourite and why.(Note:Terran Mara isn't counted)

Let me start off.

My favourite fighter is the GTF Ares,ultra-heavy assault.
Very strong hull and shields,large missile capacity and not so bad speed make this ship excellent in everything,from attacking interceptors from 2 clicks with the Maxim,to blowing up Cains with the Tornadoes.Low maneuverability isn't a problem to me,as you can destroy everything before they start making circles around you,if you can aim that is.I became so good with this ship that I can do interceptor stuff too.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: General Battuta on June 04, 2015, 03:08:48 pm
For which difficulty?
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Kestrellius on June 04, 2015, 03:16:39 pm
As I said in that thread, the Pegasus. It's...maneuverable enough.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Lepanto on June 04, 2015, 04:00:46 pm
Erinyes.

I know its weaknesses, but EIGHT GUNPOINTS OF KAYSERY AND PROMETHEUSY (OR MAXIMY) DEATH.

The Ares is also cool, on the rare occasions that campaigns let you fly it. Treb and Tornado spam FTW.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Thisisaverylongusername on June 04, 2015, 04:34:22 pm
Other than the Terran Mara, the Loki.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: General Battuta on June 04, 2015, 04:54:33 pm
Man we really gotta talk about difficulty, a bunch of ships that work on low difficulties are just terrible on the more challenging realistic:7 ones
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Spoon on June 04, 2015, 05:34:34 pm
SF Ray MkIV
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Mars on June 04, 2015, 07:44:52 pm
Are we talking canon fighters?

GTF Valkyrie, until the advent of those terrible AAA beams.  After that it just has to be the Perseus, simply because its the only FS2 fighter that doesn't have ludicrously crippling flaw. The other exception is the Mara, which I count not as a fighter so much as basically being in god mode for one mission.

Non canon but Freespace versed based fighters:

Blue Planet's Atalanta is fantastic, it's not fat like a Kent and its more maneuverable than the Uhlan
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: niffiwan on June 04, 2015, 07:48:10 pm
Man we really gotta talk about difficulty, a bunch of ships that work on low difficulties are just terrible on the more challenging realistic:7 ones

The missions themselves are important too, if you don't have many AI's attacking you the Ares can work quite sweetly even on insane.

Anyway, if I were to rephrase the question to this:  When playing the Freespace2 campaign on insane, which ship do you change to most given the choice?

I'd probably answer: GTF Ares - it's purpose built to lob Trebs at bombers and capships from long range and you generally don't need to engage fighters in the missions where it's available. However I also view it as a deathtrap (on insane) if enemy fighters are out for your blood, target profile is too big and it's not fast enough to run away (hahaha, you should see me and my Myrmidon bravely-bravely-run-away in "... But hate the Traitor")
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on June 05, 2015, 04:26:39 am
I definitely don't enjoy flying anything as much as the Erinyes. Even when testing **** (like when I was working on nebula lightning, and flying As Lightning Fall repeatedly), I feel downright giddy when I get to fly that sleek-looking fighter and fire 8-gun-strong Kayser barrages.

I am aware of the Erinyes's weaknesses; I just don't care.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 05, 2015, 05:01:04 am
Cannon fighters,both Great War-era and FS2-era.If we're using the difficulty,I'll say medium.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on June 05, 2015, 05:17:31 am
Tough call, but I'm gonna name the Serapis, despite it's obvious flaws, for a few reasons:
- it's pretty much the only craft in which I feel confortable facing dragons
  * I like its gun placements better the the Ulysses' and the Toth's
  * It carries more missiles than the Uly
  * Unlike the Uly, I never had to fly it with only TAGs & crap guns over and over
- it can carry the maxim and has a good energy reserve to support it
Runner ups include the Ares 'cause trebs'n'maxim'n'kayser, the Erinyes 'cause screw those Shivan Bombers.

Honorable mentions go to the Shivan Mara for being the only Shivan craft that doesn't suck ass to fly - the Dragon is disqualified due to more awkward gunpoints and small secodary bank, and the Nahema for not carrying enough bombs.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Vrets on June 06, 2015, 01:47:35 am
The Perseus is probably the best all-around fighter. But my favorite ship to fly is the loathsome Ulysses. Now that I am converted to mouse-and-keyboard-over-joystick paradigm I can finally handle this sick abomination of a fighter.

Shields are of a lesser importance when nothing can hit me!
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Gee1337 on June 06, 2015, 02:42:51 am
I find myself going for the Erinyes. Load the lasers with Kaysers and Maxims to make it a good multi-role brute. The downside of this ship is the power drain with continuos fire of the Kasyers or Maxims.

I'm also prone to a bit of Perseus action, because that speed is very useful. Some might find it surprising that I am not a fan of the Ares. It's more of a tanking fighter and I'm not a fan of tanking... tanking is what cap ships should do!

I'm a bit vain as well, so I believe that the best looking fighter in retail FS2 is the Perseus.

Out of mod fighters, I think my favourite is the Ezechiel because of its power and the way it looks!
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Black Wolf on June 06, 2015, 06:09:31 am
The Thoth. Hands down the most fun to fly - handles somehow better than just about anything else in the game.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on June 06, 2015, 12:02:06 pm
Erinyes, as long as the difficulty is low enough that you can actually use the gun banks.  But I'm a pansy and mostly play on easy anyway. 
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: swashmebuckle on June 06, 2015, 03:00:35 pm
The Thoth. Hands down the most fun to fly - handles somehow better than just about anything else in the game.
Thoth what I think too.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on June 06, 2015, 03:21:43 pm
But those gunpoints....
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Vrets on June 06, 2015, 04:18:57 pm
But those gunpoints....

No kidding.

As I said in the other thread, if you're flying a thin fighter, you can orient yourself so that your ship's hull is perpendicular to the thoth's gunpoints ("+") and it just misses you head-on. It's absurd(ly funny). In this context, the Ulysses is the natural predator of the Thoth.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Kestrellius on June 06, 2015, 06:01:35 pm
Yesterday I learned that if you're flying a Loki, you can just completely ignore an Aeshma's guns.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Phantom Hoover on June 06, 2015, 07:21:05 pm
The Thoth really suffers when it comes to survivability, though.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: swashmebuckle on June 06, 2015, 11:07:11 pm
You might not survive, but you haven't really lived until you've tasted the hot Thoth.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 06, 2015, 11:26:34 pm
Yesterday I learned that if you're flying a Loki, you can just completely ignore an Aeshma's guns.

From my experience,if you're flying anything smaller than a cruiser,you can just completely ignore Aeshma's guns.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Droid803 on June 07, 2015, 01:47:20 am
The Aeshma has guns? It can hurt cruisers because of swarm missiles, not guns. :P
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: BritishShivans on June 07, 2015, 03:06:31 am
aeshma best fighter
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: chinaman on June 07, 2015, 11:35:45 am
I will go with this any day  ;) but a a Perseus.........next best thing

[attachment deleted by nobody]
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 07, 2015, 02:55:36 pm
 :jaw: HOW MUCH SECONDARY BANKS DOES THAT THING HAVE???
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: SmashMonkey on June 07, 2015, 11:41:57 pm
I will go with this any day  ;) but a a Perseus.........next best thing

One hit to its secondaries and that thing goes up in a giant fireball!
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: antsa on June 08, 2015, 08:26:38 am
:jaw: HOW MUCH SECONDARY BANKS DOES THAT THING HAVE???

i think it has all the secondary gunpoints :lol:
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: chinaman on June 08, 2015, 10:32:30 am
all 4 secondary points used and some  additional missile banks  added :v  I lifted the mave model from Dimensional Eclipse mod by Droid803. been searching for this a longtime thanks !!

[attachment deleted by nobody]
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Kie99 on June 10, 2015, 07:13:39 am
Ares, because despite playing the game on and off for 16 years I'm still terrible at it and it's insane missile capacity covers up my deficiencies at long and medium range with the Trebuchet and Tornado.  2*Maxim 4*Kayser is pretty devastating up close too.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: mjn.mixael on June 10, 2015, 09:54:03 am
In FS2, I generally switch to the Erinyes, because it looks badass.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Nohiki on June 11, 2015, 10:50:23 am
FS 1, definitely the Herc.

FS2, that's a tough one. I think I'm actually going say Serapis. There's nothing it can't do, true space superiority fighter.

WoD - Ray MkIII E oh god I can finally dogfight yesmoarplz =D
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Phantom Hoover on June 11, 2015, 10:53:20 am
There's nothing it can't do

except survive a hit
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on June 11, 2015, 11:56:44 am
There's nothing it can't do

except survive a hit
"Avoid the shots and you won't get hit pilot."
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 12, 2015, 01:32:55 am
Currently:
Erinyes-7
Ares-3
Serapis-2
Hercules-2
Pegasus-1
Loki-1
Valkrye-1
Ulysses-1
Thoth-1
Perseus-1

It appears that sleek,8-gun assault fighter is the best ship in the game.

Non-voted ships are:Apollo,Myrmidon,Herc II,Horus,Seth,Anubis,Tauret and Ptah.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 12, 2015, 01:45:21 am
Fs1 herc ,  fs2 Erinyes.


Because skulls. And sexy.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on June 12, 2015, 02:29:15 am
Serapis-1
Actually there's 2 votes for the Serapis, Nohiki's and mine.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Lorric on June 12, 2015, 08:59:22 am
I've been mulling this over for a while on and off. I really don't have a strong opinion on this, but it's probably the Erinyes for me as well. The look, the firepower, the fact it feels more like a medium fighter than a heavy one (I generally favour the medium option in most games, never mind just space combat ones). And the way it gets introduced to you. I generally like to shoot things only when I'm at least reasonably confident of hitting them, so the power drain of the guns isn't so much of a drawback for me as it might be for others who would like to shoot at any time they think they might have a chance of landing a hit. While sometimes loading up on missiles gets the job done and can be essential with large numbers of bombers, in terms of enjoyment, I much prefer to be shooting things down with my guns to firing off missiles, and the Erinyes facilitates that well with those guns. More firepower from the guns means less frustration from regenerating shields and more pretty explosions from the things I shoot at. :)

The Serapis is really fun to zip around in, but it's made of paper.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Phantom Hoover on June 12, 2015, 09:11:17 am
Well this is a load of ****, I vote Perseus.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Cyborg17 on June 12, 2015, 09:14:26 am
Perseus.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Aesaar on June 12, 2015, 09:16:15 am
Perseus.  Both banks loaded with Kaysers, Tempests in secondaries.  Also it looks cool as hell.

Fight me.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: The E on June 12, 2015, 09:16:49 am
Perseus for life
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FrikgFeek on June 12, 2015, 09:25:02 am
Well, it really depends on the mission, but the Perseus is good enough for pretty much every non-bomber mission. It's pretty versatile, has a good loadout and has enough hull to survive a few AAA beams.
My personal favourite "good for everything" loadout would probably be double proms, 1 bank of trebs and 1 bank of tempests.
Kaysers are probably better for dogfighting, but proms outrange standard flak, which can be a lifesaver in missions where you have to both dogfight and disarm capships.

Though I really like flying the Serapis, the good pitch, jaw, and roll make it able to dodge pretty much everything(aside from beams, which will absolutely tear through your cardboard hull).
I know some people like the Uly but I don't like the lethargic roll. It pitches and yaws like a Serapis but rolls like the Athena.

EDIT: Guess I wasn't clear enough, I vote the Perseus simply because it's always good enough and it always performs what's asked of it without any obvious weaknesses. So that's a 6 Perseus vote chain.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: IronBeer on June 12, 2015, 09:29:41 am
The Perseus is my favorite all-round fighter. Plenty of reasons have already been enumerated, but I'm simply adding my voice.

That said, my secondary favorite is the Ares..... but I generally prefer not getting shredded to bulldozing enemies. Further, I actually kind of like the Seth, but it requires a good bit more pilot engagement to keep your AB hot, which can get tedious.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 12, 2015, 09:44:57 am
Erinyes-7
Perseus-6
Ares-3
Serapis-2
Hercules-2
Pegasus-1
Loki-1
Valkrye-1
Ulysses-1
Thoth-1

Perseus get another 5 votes,but neither the voting Perseus chain was not enough to give it Erinyes' first place.

Come on people,vote for the Horus,its better than the Perseus...
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Phantom Hoover on June 12, 2015, 09:47:04 am
unless you're getting shot at
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: General Battuta on June 12, 2015, 09:49:04 am
One of the Vasudan fighters is pretty decent except it has a weapons subsystem right on the nose which will absolutely get skewered every time you attack a warship with beam CIWS.

The Kulas also suffers this hard.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FrikgFeek on June 12, 2015, 09:52:14 am
The Horus is probably the best interceptor, but it's incredibly bad at every other role. The weapons subsystem is easily disabled and the gunpoints are pretty spread out, making it impossible to hit smaller fighters.
It also has relatively big damp values, making it turn in huge loops.

And when the burners run out it might as well be the GVF bullseye, the target profile from above is pretty huge.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on June 12, 2015, 09:58:55 am
unless you're getting shot at
Or try to shoot anything smaller than a bomber or heavy fighter. Seriously, that thing's firing point are basically as horrible to work with as the firing points of most Shivan crafts.

EDIT - partial ninja'd
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 12, 2015, 10:09:27 am
The Horus is faster than the Perseus,it has the same secondary capacity,and OK maneuverability,its side profile is smaller than Perseus',and its an interceptor,so it ain't supposed to attack warships like the Ares or the Artemis,although you can destroy Cain if you approach from the right angle,and like every other fighter,it can engage the Moloch with no fear.It is my third favourite fighter after the Ares and the Erinyes.Even when flying the Horus,I do way better than with the Perseus,and I tested them in the same mission,with the same armament.In fact,not so long ago I upgraded the ship's model with better subsystem placement and more guns(8 actually),it will probably be featured in the Final Destination,if the GTD Shadow doesn't take all the available table space...
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FrikgFeek on June 12, 2015, 10:15:25 am
Table space? Don't we have modular tables to fix that issue?

On topic, The Horus is a good interceptor, yes, but the Perseus is so much more than that. The Perseus is one of the rare fighters that will perform almost anything you ask of it without complaints, and that's without relying on Treb-spamming or glitching out the retail AI.
I don't know what difficulty you're playing on, but unless you have Trebs the Horus is completely incapable of engaging anything with AAA beams. It only has 170 hull, and that will dissapear very quickly. The large profile also makes it more vulnerable to flak.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 12, 2015, 10:34:22 am
I'm mostly using retail for the mod,as I want it retail-compatible.FSO is only used for error-checking in the tables.

I play on medium or hard difficulty.
And I was able to destroy an Leviathan,with the Prom S and Subach HL-7 on the Horus with around 40% hull integrity.
With the Perseus and the same armament,I managed to destroy it,but with not much of the hull remaining,like 10-15%,as the speed does help to dodge AAAfs and Terran Turrets.

Note:I wasn't just sitting in front of it and shooting the SGreen,I flew around the ship shooting as much as possible.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FrikgFeek on June 12, 2015, 10:40:25 am
Not sure what AAAfs are doing on hostile ships, but last I checked, speed doesn't really help in dodging them. They just have a set miss chance based on difficulty and a small FOF.
Though on lower difficulties you could probably get away with using more fragile fighters as player damage is reduced.
Terran turrets should be easy to dodge in anything smaller than an Ursa. Blob turrets just suck.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: General Battuta on June 12, 2015, 10:43:12 am
Speed only helps dodge beams in that it can move you out of their firing arc. AAA hits are pure chance.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 12, 2015, 10:48:34 am
Blob turrets just suck.

Nope,I was once vaporized by one in a Jotun.OK,it was actually shooting the Armageddon I fired at the ship and escorted,but the mother****** got a lucky hit on the bomb,and that 56k damage ain't for joking...

I dodged the beams by quickly flying to the other side of the ship(top,bottom,back or the front),and Horus' massive afterburner speed is very useful in such a situation.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FrikgFeek on June 12, 2015, 10:50:58 am
You're not dodging the beams, you're just staying out of their arcs. You can't "dodge" beams, as they don't have a travel time and will always hit if the RNJesus decides they should. And it's really not necessary to fly everywhere to dodge blobs, small adjustments are enough.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Vrets on June 12, 2015, 12:17:01 pm
I've started trying the Insane difficulty level. It's amazing the difference in opinion one is forced to develop in regards to slow, heavy fighters like the Herc. The scales have fallen from my eyes.

Ten years ago, playing Fs1 on my potato computer, I loved the Hercules--it was my beloved potato fighter. It was a fighter built to compensate for my terrible computer and horrendous lack of skill. My computer was so terrible, and the difficulty level so low, that I could destroy the fastest enemy fighters with Hornets. "lag-based" pursuit curve, indeed. My glorious potato herc could shrug off an infinite amount of abuse and destroy any enemy as I hurtled myself jerkily into the void of space at 5 frames per second.

Now, today, on my LORD DEATH apocalypse computer with difficulty cranked to insane, the old Herc has become nothing more than a medieval death trap; it is become a cruel mockery of my comforting, youthful memories; it has become a symbol of the passing of time, of unwanted change. Today, in the Herc I cannot avoid enemy fire. My shields are useless. The once-venerable hornet missile is useful only for killing freighters. Although the fall of the potato reflects my positive growth as a person (who can afford actual computers with fancy features like "memory" and "a graphics card"), I nonetheless shed a tear for my false memory of the glorious potato fighter.

**** you, Hercules. Worthless piece of ****.

Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Phantom Hoover on June 12, 2015, 12:21:52 pm
you forgot to vote for the perseus though!!
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: General Battuta on June 12, 2015, 12:25:03 pm
As difficulty goes up, heavy fighters get more bad, but they're still good at missile engagements at long range. Then you add Fury AI and most missiles are suddenly bad because the AI is dodging them. :o Then you add countermeasures that actually work aggressively on aspect seekers and even Trebs are bad  :(
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FrikgFeek on June 12, 2015, 12:44:10 pm
Homing missiles are still useful for zone control or buying time though.

Trebs are just... broken stupid godmissiles even if you never fire them at fighters(it's honestly a waste unless you're in a missileboat). That is... until someone decides to change armor.tbl and make turrets harder to snipe with trebs  :(
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: General Battuta on June 12, 2015, 12:50:25 pm
A brute force fix would be to change the subsystem damage multiplier to bring the Treb in line/lower than the Harpoon.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: CT27 on June 12, 2015, 01:13:02 pm
My favorite fighter is the Erinyes.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 12, 2015, 01:14:32 pm
Vesuvius, from INF and relatives. It always felt like the medium fighter that was lacking from the FS2 Terran lineup; an Apollo for the new age.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Meneldil on June 12, 2015, 01:55:00 pm
I once edited the fs2 main campaign to enable playing it with Dragon. That ship's the most fun you can have flying... at least until something ignores your shields and you loose a half of your hull and subsystems.

As for the normal choices, I really miss the Valkyire and the fact it had no real replacement in fs2. Perseus is a brilliant fighter but it always felt kind of bland, too "very good!" at everything I guess. Erinyes on the other hand may have other problems but blandness is not one of them, I love it.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 12, 2015, 02:04:03 pm
GTF Erinyes-11
GTF Perseus-8
GTF Ares-3
GVF Serapis-2
GTF Hercules-2
GTF Pegasus-1
GTF Loki-1
GTF Valkrye-1
GTF Ulysses-1
GVF Thoth-1
GVF Seth-1

2 more for the Erinyes.
Another for the Perseus.


Vesuvius, from INF and relatives. It always felt like the medium fighter that was lacking from the FS2 Terran lineup; an Apollo for the new age.
I believe you'll be one of the Final Destination players then...Vesuvius is used a lot in there.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FIZ on June 12, 2015, 03:22:21 pm
Gonna go FS1 and bring up the Valkryie and no Athena love?  Meh, I guess not technically a fighter.

I always liked wingmen in Taurets with ample secondaries.  I kinda liked it to when I could get it, good primary spread, didn't feel as heavy as an Aries.  Had a helluva bite in The Procyon Insurgency with Vulcan cannons, I remember that fondly.  I had to look up if it could load Maxims though... damn.  I think I remember feeling like the only reason Maxims weren't compatible on this and the Perseus was balance.  (Seriously, on a Serapis but not either of those?)

But when it boils down to Erinyes vs. Perseus:

Younger me would have said Erinyes.  But having been on the receiving side of both ships in mods (My Brother, My Enemy... My god!) and cranking the difficulty, I'd have to say Perseus. 

She's gotten me home safe more than enough times for me to vote for her in fan poll.  Just a good all around ship.

Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Phantom Hoover on June 12, 2015, 03:51:33 pm
I like to think the Maxim compatibility of the Serapis was an 'oh ****' moment on the part of the manufacturers as it became steadily clear that they were in fact selling a device for killing friendly pilots in close engagements.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FrikgFeek on June 12, 2015, 03:53:45 pm
The Perseus might be a bit boring(Very good) in everything, not absolutely spectacular in anything either, but that just makes it feel very... Terran. It just gets the job done, no flair, but no questions asked either.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FIZ on June 12, 2015, 04:05:42 pm
Yeah, perhaps preferred fighter for most engagements is more appropriate, but as to no flair... well... (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=71634.0) :D
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on June 12, 2015, 04:12:56 pm
PVF/GVF Seth

too bad the Tauret's primary compability is crap
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: SmashMonkey on June 12, 2015, 09:25:52 pm
Retail: Perseus - It's the Erinyes killer

Mods: Kentauroi - Love those reverse afterburners in a dogfight!
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Megawolf492 on June 13, 2015, 02:35:48 pm
Erinyes - I don't use speed as well in dogfights as I should.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: JSRNerdo on June 13, 2015, 08:33:30 pm
Juuust so ya'll know the Erinyes doesn't really have the dps of 8 guns when you consider how linked primaries work, because you have to consider that weapons fire considerably (around half the rate of fire) slower when you link your primaries.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Phantom Hoover on June 13, 2015, 09:02:35 pm
Linked primaries fire at 2/3 of the speed of a single bank. If both banks have the same number of gunpoints the linked DPS is 1/3 more than that of a single bank.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: CT27 on June 13, 2015, 11:01:06 pm
I've started trying the Insane difficulty level. It's amazing the difference in opinion one is forced to develop in regards to slow, heavy fighters like the Herc. The scales have fallen from my eyes.

Ten years ago, playing Fs1 on my potato computer, I loved the Hercules--it was my beloved potato fighter. It was a fighter built to compensate for my terrible computer and horrendous lack of skill. My computer was so terrible, and the difficulty level so low, that I could destroy the fastest enemy fighters with Hornets. "lag-based" pursuit curve, indeed. My glorious potato herc could shrug off an infinite amount of abuse and destroy any enemy as I hurtled myself jerkily into the void of space at 5 frames per second.

Now, today, on my LORD DEATH apocalypse computer with difficulty cranked to insane, the old Herc has become nothing more than a medieval death trap; it is become a cruel mockery of my comforting, youthful memories; it has become a symbol of the passing of time, of unwanted change. Today, in the Herc I cannot avoid enemy fire. My shields are useless. The once-venerable hornet missile is useful only for killing freighters. Although the fall of the potato reflects my positive growth as a person (who can afford actual computers with fancy features like "memory" and "a graphics card"), I nonetheless shed a tear for my false memory of the glorious potato fighter.

**** you, Hercules. Worthless piece of ****.


What do you like nowadays?
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Mongoose on June 14, 2015, 06:23:10 pm
The Perseus is probably the best all-around ship in FS2, but per the thread that inspired this one, I just can't say no to my beloved Valkyrie.  Those afterburner banks last for days, which means you can jet across an entire battlefield without even thinking about it.  Of course you're likely to get blown to shreds once something starts shooting at you, but eh, can't win 'em all.  FS2 was sorely lacking a true dedicated interceptor. :(
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Vrets on June 14, 2015, 06:38:29 pm
What do you like nowadays?

I'm flying with a mouse n' keyboard setup, so I like the insanely maneuverable fighters that I once loathed.

Easiest fighters to fly are the Ulysses and Serapis.

I agree that the Perseus is the best all-rounder, but it is still not quite agile enough to be comfortably flown with only a mouse.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Adderbane on June 19, 2015, 11:20:47 am
Gotta love the Eyrines.  Having a quad bank of maxims in addition to your main dogfight guns is great.  Bye-Bye cruisers.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Gee1337 on June 19, 2015, 05:19:22 pm
What do you like nowadays?

I'm flying with a mouse n' keyboard setup, so I like the insanely maneuverable fighters that I once loathed.

Easiest fighters to fly are the Ulysses and Serapis.

I agree that the Perseus is the best all-rounder, but it is still not quite agile enough to be comfortably flown with only a mouse.

When we talk about which fighters we like, this is the real deciding factor in terms of what you can do with such a fighter... as in what kind of control setup are you using. For example, I have a modded X52 setup, so I find things like dodging missiles and evasive manouvers relatively easy, but aiming can be a bit sluggish. Using a mouse and keyboard I imagine that you would find aiming easier and more precise but when it comes to being evasive.. a bit trickier.

As a result, I don't like anything stupid manouverable as aiming becomes stupid hard and too fast for the lead indicator... but at the same time, I don't want anything sluggish when it turns or rolls as the crosshairs can't keep up with the lead indicator. It then becomes tough as to whether I would chose a Perseus or an Erinyes, but I think I would still be leaning towards the Erinyes, just because of the multi-role versatility of being able to take down a cruiser from range with quad Maxims and the power delivered in dogfights from quad kaysers.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 22, 2015, 01:52:27 am
Myrmidon for light bombing?  ;7

(not changing my vote from Erin,  just a discussion point)
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on June 22, 2015, 05:17:21 am
Myrmidon for light bombing?  ;7

No,I destroyed a Demon with the Myrmidon,alone,so its more of a heavy bombing.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on June 22, 2015, 06:29:58 am
Agreed, anything that involves lobbing around Helios torpedoes definitely qualifies as "Heavy bombing".
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Thisisaverylongusername on June 22, 2015, 08:18:48 am
You just made me realize that the Myrmidon is probably the GTVA's best bomber, because it can get in, drop it's torpedoes, and get out, and can defend itself well enough if it has to. Only disadvantages are a small payload and no Maxim, but it still does the job.

Loki is still the best fighter for me, though.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: General Battuta on June 22, 2015, 08:29:27 am
The Helios thing is funny but it's got to be a table error.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: The E on June 22, 2015, 08:35:50 am
Yeah, I'm pretty certain that the Helios thing was a :V: oversight that just never mattered during the campaign and thus wasn't caught in testing.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Aesaar on June 22, 2015, 10:30:18 am
It was probably meant to be Harpoon.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Mars on June 22, 2015, 10:54:17 am
That would have solved about 1/3rd of that fighter's major problems.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 22, 2015, 11:18:46 am
Yeah, I'm pretty certain that the Helios thing was a :V: oversight that just never mattered during the campaign and thus wasn't caught in testing.

Maybe, but if it was really meant to be Harpoon then I can't believe the testers didn't notice it couldn't mount the Harpoon.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 22, 2015, 11:25:19 am
I can see how it would slip through if the testers weren't in-house.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on June 22, 2015, 01:57:39 pm
Besides, you don't have access to the Harpoon early on when you are flying the Myrmidon anyway.

It was probably meant to be Harpoon.
Makes sense.
*has flashbacks of his text editor's auto-completion messing with him*
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 22, 2015, 06:28:15 pm
Besides, you don't have access to the Harpoon early on when you are flying the Myrmidon anyway.

It was probably meant to be Harpoon.
Makes sense.
*has flashbacks of his text editor's auto-completion messing with him*

Not the last time the ship's selected for default fighter, though.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Firesteel on July 06, 2015, 06:11:11 pm
I enjoy the Erinyes because 8 Kaisers will toast just about anything instantly and its turning isn't that bad. Even if you have 8 Kaisers, if you pick your shots, you will have plenty of energy up to medium difficulty.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Kestrellius on July 06, 2015, 08:14:54 pm
You know come to think of it, the Myrm is prolly the best all-around craft in the game, simply because it's a fighter that can still finish off capital ships if you just carry a single Helios. (Well, unless we consider that apparently the EMP bomb can destroy Huge targets, but that's not exactly on the same scale.) I mean sure it's kind of crap, but it's certainly no worse than say the Herc II. Plus it has a four-gun bank. That's always a plus.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Vrets on July 06, 2015, 08:31:12 pm
The Myrm was never supposed to carry the Helios, though.

Contrarywise, the Bakha was meant to carry the Helios, but some intern assigned it as a primary weapon instead of a secondary.

What's with Volition and the Helios, anyway? It's the HELIOS CURSE.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Kestrellius on July 06, 2015, 09:29:22 pm
Clearly there was meant to be a gun that fired Helioii.

The alternate theory on the Myrmidon is that it was originally meant to be a bomber of some kind, but was changed to a fighter at the last minute or the tables were copied incorrectly.

...I got that from the wiki connected to this site, though, so I imagine you all know that.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Kolgena on July 06, 2015, 11:56:01 pm
+1 perseus with double PromS. Ditto for the AI wingmen. The range and speed of the fighter gives you pretty insane coverage against fighter/bomber targets warping in all over the place, which ends up being how many missions are. AI also tend to survive longest in perseus. They get shredded pretty fast in Erinyes but you can spam C31 and watch everything die as if it was ~+k'd

Erinyes is good, and I definitely pick it over the perseus on many missions, but almost as an exercise to micro the **** out of the ETS and weapon<->shield energy transfer system (Never put any energy into shield recharge and manage shields exclusively by dumping weapon energy into them. Put extra ETS energy into shields and engine so you're not dead or shooting dry every 5 seconds)

Earlier someone mentioned the kentauri. Ditto to that too. Aside from being gigantic (and inability to mount scalpels on the 2 gun primary slot even though they can go on the 4 gun slot--come on people), it's everything anyone could wish for.

Only ever play on insane.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on July 08, 2015, 02:55:29 pm
Contrarywise, the Bakha was meant to carry the Helios, but some intern assigned it as a primary weapon instead of a secondary.
Was meant to and does; the code allows the Bakha to carry the Helios because it's a valid weapon (it doesn't care that it was only made valid in the primary list instead of the secondary list).
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Megawolf492 on July 08, 2015, 07:36:36 pm
Was meant to and does; the code allows the Bakha to carry the Helios because it's a valid weapon (it doesn't care that it was only made valid in the primary list instead of the secondary list).

So does that mean that in FRED I can put primaries in secondary slots (and visa versa) and it will still work? As in, can I have 4 primaries (two in secondary slots) and they would all drain my weapons energy? Or would those in the secondary slots have a "missile count"? It would be cool to put bombs in the primaries and shoot a bunch of them like they were primaries...
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: General Battuta on July 08, 2015, 07:52:09 pm
Nope.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on July 09, 2015, 01:58:31 am
Was meant to and does; the code allows the Bakha to carry the Helios because it's a valid weapon (it doesn't care that it was only made valid in the primary list instead of the secondary list).

So does that mean that in FRED I can put primaries in secondary slots (and visa versa) and it will still work? As in, can I have 4 primaries (two in secondary slots) and they would all drain my weapons energy? Or would those in the secondary slots have a "missile count"? It would be cool to put bombs in the primaries and shoot a bunch of them like they were primaries...
As General Battuta said:
Nope.

I was speaking purely in terms of how the game checks which weapons are valid for that ship; it still differentiates between which are primaries and which are secondaries.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: QuantumDelta on July 09, 2015, 06:08:59 am
The horus 'sideways' profile is irrelevant considering most people are shooting at the top, or slightly less commonly bottom, but almost never, side.

The Perseus is my favourite fighter, but unfortunately outside of dogfighting/intercepting it isn't that useful.
The Erinyes is my go-to dueling fighter assuming people aren't flying lights (or aren't good..), it can also double up as a strategic fighter because it can pack maxim with a bank of trebs, and tempest with prom s / kayser.
The Ares is 'command and control' and should be used as such, it's effectively a more missile based version of the erinyes, top bank maxim, second bank prom s / kayser, tempest / trebs, tends to engage at range to start with, beyond when the AI is interested in dodging if they haven't taken any damage, used to heavily strip things of turrets while killing fighters.

Most ships have their role that they excel at though.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Valrog on July 10, 2015, 08:45:15 am
The Thoth is my favorite. Its extreme speed and maneuverability, combined with 4 primary weapons makes it a joy to afterburn past someone and then tear them to pieces from behind.

I just wish that it could carry the Maxim, like that stupid Serapis paper plane.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on July 10, 2015, 10:48:32 am
I'll keep the voting for two more days, then I'll count the votes and declare the winner.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Vrets on July 10, 2015, 09:00:02 pm
I just wish that it could carry the Maxim, like that stupid Serapis paper plane.

A Thoth packing a Maxim would be pretty helpless against anything with shields, though. The Serapis is a flying coffin, but at least it can be easily flown with the mouse (so responsive).
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Valrog on July 11, 2015, 07:24:48 am
True, the Thoth can only carry the same weapon weapon, so the Maxim would not be recommended. Tempests and wingmen with shield-draining weapons could help cope a little, though, if it could carry the Maxim.

What about the Ulysses? It can pick 2 different weapons, has 4 gun mounts and also has high speed and maneuverability. It can carry the Maxim and Circe. Energy is a problem, but not so much when you're flying close behind the target, which is where you should be in a Ulysses. Admittedly, I've not flown it much, as when you get to fly it in the FS2 campaign, you don't have good primary weapons.

My main dislike of the Serapis is the 2 primary gun points. Sacrificing endurance for speed and maneuverability would be a good trade if it had better firepower.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Thisisaverylongusername on July 11, 2015, 07:57:54 am
True, the Thoth can only carry the same weapon weapon, so the Maxim would not be recommended. Tempests and wingmen with shield-draining weapons could help cope a little, though, if it could carry the Maxim.

What about the Ulysses? It can pick 2 different weapons, has 4 gun mounts and also has high speed and maneuverability. It can carry the Maxim and Circe. Energy is a problem, but not so much when you're flying close behind the target, which is where you should be in a Ulysses. Admittedly, I've not flown it much, as when you get to fly it in the FS2 campaign, you don't have good primary weapons.

My main dislike of the Serapis is the 2 primary gun points. Sacrificing endurance for speed and maneuverability would be a good trade if it had better firepower.

Gonna have to stop you before you get ahead of yourself. The Ulysses cannot carry the Maxim, and the Maxim/Circe combination is not as good as some people make it out to be. If you want to carry the Maxim in a "light" fighter, your options are the Serapis and the Loki. The Serapis is made of paper mache, and the Loki has very few secondaries. If you really want to take the Maxim, go for something heavier.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Valrog on July 11, 2015, 09:12:29 am
Gonna have to stop you before you get ahead of yourself. The Ulysses cannot carry the Maxim.

Huh? The Ship guide on this site (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTF_Ulysses) as well as the Root_fs2.vp show the Maxim as equipable by the Ulysses.

...and the Maxim/Circe combination is not as good as some people make it out to be. If you want to carry the Maxim in a "light" fighter, your options are the Serapis and the Loki. The Serapis is made of paper mache, and the Loki has very few secondaries. If you really want to take the Maxim, go for something heavier.

You're missing the point. The idea of carrying the Maxim is not to be the best dogfighter. It's to be able to destroy cruisers more effectively while in a fighter, while retaining the ability to dogfight.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on July 11, 2015, 09:19:51 am
My main dislike of the Serapis is the 2 primary gun points. Sacrificing endurance for speed and maneuverability would be a good trade if it had better firepower.
The Serapis has 4 primary gun points, divided in two weapon banks, same as most fighters. Moreover, it's got a surprisingly good energy reserve for such a light fighter (same as a heavy fighter I believe), meaning that it handles energy-hungry weapons like the Maxim or Prom S quite well.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Valrog on July 11, 2015, 10:20:45 am
The Serapis has 4 primary gun points, divided in two weapon banks, same as most fighters. Moreover, it's got a surprisingly good energy reserve for such a light fighter (same as a heavy fighter I believe), meaning that it handles energy-hungry weapons like the Maxim or Prom S quite well.

Are you referring to some mod?? The Ship guide (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GVF_Serapis) and the Root_fs2.vp file list the Serapis as having only 2 primary gun mounts. Firing it also shoots only 2 projectiles...
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on July 11, 2015, 11:00:27 am
I think we might have had a vocabulary issue here, I was under the impression that you were saying that the Serapis only had a single 2-gun-point bank, which is obviously not the case.


To clarify :
- Gun banks are the things you choose a weapon for in the loadout menu. They are composed of multiple gun points.
- Gun points are the things that actually fire when you fire with a selected gun bank.

On average, fighters have two gun banks with two gun points each (Perseus, Herc 2, Serapis, Horus, Seth, etc.), but some have a single 4-gun-points bank (Thoth), or a 2-gun-point and a 4-gun-point bank (Ares, Hercules, Tauret, Myrmidon), or two 4-gun-point banks (Erinyes). Shivans also have more exotic configurations.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Valrog on July 11, 2015, 12:01:59 pm
I'll be darned! :blah: I thought the Serapis had lower firepower than most fighters. Forget what I said.  :banghead: Until your post, I used to think that "gun mounts" were the total number of guns, which were then allocated to the primary weapon banks.

I only used the Serapis with "dual" Maxims, so I never knew if it was good at dogfighting. I'll give it another shot.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on July 13, 2015, 03:52:10 am
Its time to declare the winner!

And the winner is................................GTF Erinyes, with 12 votes!
Second place takes.............................GTF Perseus, with 11 votes!
Third place gets...................................GTF Ares, with 3 votes!

If I have made a mistake that you noted, please correct me.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 19, 2015, 04:42:13 am
:bump:


Erinyes Wins!!!!


 ;)


Whoop! !

My favourite.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 19, 2015, 02:00:21 pm
Kind of disappointed nobody seriously voted for the Athena.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on August 19, 2015, 02:21:24 pm
Athena is a bomber.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Mongoose on August 19, 2015, 04:25:17 pm
In name only.  In reality it's a surprisingly-capable heavy fighter.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: niffiwan on August 19, 2015, 04:37:10 pm
I kinda assumed it was an FS2 question, for FS1 Athena would be at the top of my list, and I've got a Lucy and a Hades painted on the side of mine :D
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FlamingCobra on August 19, 2015, 07:29:30 pm
Honestly the Ulysses is my favorite. In my opinion it flies like a dream.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Aesaar on August 19, 2015, 09:25:17 pm
Perseus always wins because truth is not a democracy. :p
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 20, 2015, 08:07:01 am
Athena is a bomber.

The Athena is the game's heaviest interceptor.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: wardog300k on August 20, 2015, 09:17:05 am
I don't actually understand, why do people like Athena so much? I could not get used to it, I preferred Valkyrie and Herc in the fighter role, and Medusa and Zeus in the bomber, but Athena was ,,just another ship" for me, if I did use it, it was only for disarming and disabling cruisers.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: FIZ on August 20, 2015, 12:47:20 pm
De'm gunpoints.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 20, 2015, 03:39:29 pm
It was a genuine pleasure to fly in freespace the great war.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 20, 2015, 03:48:20 pm
I don't actually understand, why do people like Athena so much? I could not get used to it, I preferred Valkyrie and Herc in the fighter role, and Medusa and Zeus in the bomber, but Athena was ,,just another ship" for me, if I did use it, it was only for disarming and disabling cruisers.

Apollo's speed, tiny front/side profile, superior maneuverability to the Hercules, better or equal hull to all GTA fighters, superior shields to the Apollo or Valk, the tightest gun setup in FS making bomb-interception a snap, good time on burner, the deepest secondary bays on a fighter-like chassis you can get.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: Lorric on August 22, 2015, 02:40:53 pm
I don't actually understand, why do people like Athena so much? I could not get used to it, I preferred Valkyrie and Herc in the fighter role, and Medusa and Zeus in the bomber, but Athena was ,,just another ship" for me, if I did use it, it was only for disarming and disabling cruisers.
There's some healthy respect for the Athena in the veteran comments here:

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTB_Athena

And it's mostly about using the Athena for things other than bombing.

I imagine part of the problem is you don't see much of the Athena in Freespace 1. I got a new respect for the Athena from working on Frontlines, it wouldn't surprise me if I logged more flight time in the Athena there than everything else I've ever done combined. Also, in FS1, the Athena is flown in the earlier, easier missions so you don't get really tested in it. And I don't think I've ever flown against it before either. And even if I have, I imagine it would just be a bomber and not engaging me directly in combat. So while my respect for the Athena rose considerably I guess I still don't fully appreciate just how good it actually is not being used as a bomber. This'll be something for me to keep in mind later on.

I'm interested now who, if anyone, would have chosen the Athena as their favourite fighter if it had been up for selection?
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: CT27 on August 23, 2015, 05:22:54 pm
For me, the Athena isn't bad, but I'm not in love with it.


Why is it classified as a bomber?  It can't even carry Tsunamis.  Just my opinion, but it kind of seems like a missile boat fighter (similar to the Ares).
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 23, 2015, 08:23:15 pm
Presumably there were pre-Tsunami weapons it could carry. It's built more to the role of defanging capital ships that most people would grab a Perseus for in FS2; get in, launch subsystem-killing weaponry or use guns, get out.
Title: Re: Favourite fighter?
Post by: headdie on August 23, 2015, 09:09:33 pm
FS1 saw a massive upscaling in bomb technology and unfortunately in these cases existing designs get left behind, nut in this case redesignating or retiring the Athena hadnt happened yet

it could be that the Athena was designed to carry large rockets or very heavy guided missiles with "conventional" warheads for harassing cruisers but was not easy to retrofit to carry the much bigger tsunami