Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: mjn.mixael on July 29, 2015, 12:32:35 am
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Anyone been using Win 10? I'm not sure if I want to upgrade my creative rig just yet. I'm worried about it breaking older apps like 3ds Max 2010, or Adobe Suite CS5. Anyone have any experience here?
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Dual-boot it until you're certain it will work?
Heck, or just plain upgrade; 10 has an uninstall option so that should be fine; if it doesn't work, uninstall it.
I'd go dual-boot, though, that's what I'm doing now.
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Dual-boot it until you're certain it will work?
Heck, or just plain upgrade; 10 has an uninstall option so that should be fine; if it doesn't work, uninstall it.
I'd go dual-boot, though, that's what I'm doing now.
Because dual-booting is easy and not being able to use productivity software for a day won't cost anything.
That said, there shouldn't be anything in Win 10 that breaks those programs; If they work under 8, they should be fine under 10.
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Eww, dual-booting is an annoyance I would not wish upon anyone.
This is what Autodesk has to say about OS compatibility in regards to Windows 8 and 8.1:
http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Windows-8-Support-for-Autodesk-products.html
Autodesk product versions of 2010 and earlier are no longer supported and are not included in considerations of Windows 8 compatibility.
So who knows, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Googling didn't reveal a definite answer to whether 2010 products work properly under Win8 or not. But I found few references to problems under Win8, so that does not bode well.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116625
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/11913-3ds-Max-2010-bug-in-Windows-8
http://forums.3dtotal.com/showthread.php?t=114217
http://forums.revora.net/topic/87613-3ds-max-8-and-windows-8/
And this is what Adobe says:
https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/global/windows-8-1-compatability.html
Adobe Photoshop® CS5, CS4, and CS3 were also tested with Windows 8.1 and there are currently no known major issues.
Looks like Adobe products should be good to go on Windows 10.
Also, if you have the Windows 10 upgrade notification icon in your task bar, use it to determine compatibility of hardware and software. Although any compatibility list MS might have gathered will never reliably cover all software, driver and hardware combinations.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/will-your-pc-run-windows-10-use-this-well-hidden-compatibility-checker-to-find-out/
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How about using Win 10 in a VirtualBox to test program compatibility before upgrading?
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3ds Max requires GPU hardware acceleration. so Virtualbox probably does not work and even if it does, it may give different experience from real hardware.
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Eww, dual-booting is an annoyance I would not wish upon anyone.
Me neither. I've never understood why anyone holds up dual-booting as a good thing. All that it generally means for me is that I have to stop anything that is downloading (via browser, usenet or torrents), close all my programs, wait 2 minutes to shutdown and start up again in the new OS. Shutdown again cause I got distracted and let the OS I was using boot back up. Boot the correct OS. Open the program with compatibility problems. Go through the same bull**** if I then have to use the main OS again.
My free time is important to me. Reinstalling an OS, installing an OS for dual-boot or doing any kind of VitualBox testing is going to take the better part of an entire day before I have everything working the way I'd want. It's just simply not worth it. Which is why I've repeatedly said I'll wait 10 months before instaling Windows 10 so that I can let other people deal with the bull**** of having things break first.
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Windows 10 Pro includes Hyper-V, it is quite slick and easy way to run virtual machines. To use it you need x86-64 CPU with Intel VT or AMD-V support, which are supported by all remotely modern CPUs. So that is one way to get old software to run, but I don't know whether it is usable solution for 3ds Max for the same reason as VirtualBox mentioned earlier.
I've been running Windows 10 Pro for several months now, including Hyper-V virtual machine where I installed another Windows 10 Pro for vpn purposes. Works well.
http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2087-hyper-v-virtualization-setup-use-windows-10-a.html
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Running 3Ds Max in a VM is possible to a degree, but i wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
The viewports in Max, basically your working area, require GPU Hardware and drivers to display the content.
In a VM, only the UI is displayed, which makes it about as useful as a car without the engine.
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I'm currently on Win 7... so hmm. Perhaps I'll go with my alternate plan and build a new rig. Then I can transfer my productivity over bit by bit without losing a day.
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So new to the world, and yet already producing memes!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLFLaHHWEAAtVOX.png)
.... I think I'll wait a bit until they sort it all out.
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To be fair you could slap a Windows 95 skin on that message box and still have it be completely accurate. :p
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I had never seen a "Something Happened" error. Might have missed it! Anyways, it's an hilarious one.
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...Yeah, I've never seen that error either.
Worth a mention, however: Win 10 definitely saves your old install (puts everything in \Windows.old) so that you can revert it if necessary. This is reliable in my experience (when Win 10 has a new build, it upgrades and leaves the old build in \Windows.old ... since I have 10 installed on a rather small partition, if I didn't clean up the temp files before it auto-upgraded, the upgrade would fail, and automatically roll back. This happened at least 7 times, probably more like a dozen. Zero issues rolling back.)
As well, you can have Win 10 take an image backup of your current install. So there's that.
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Hm. I have a recent setup, and I did buy a SSD disk for my windows partition. However, it is small, it's a paltry 128 GB (I just keep windows and work programs in there). I will have to see if I have enough disk space to do all these shenanigans. If Win10 saves \Windows.old in that drive and *that's it*, I'll be somewhat annoyed.
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\Windows.old contains:
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.10240]
(c) 2015 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\Joshua>dir c:\windows.old
Volume in drive C is Win 10
Volume Serial Number is 3630-0785
Directory of c:\windows.old
07/28/2015 21:10 <DIR> .
07/28/2015 21:10 <DIR> ..
05/14/2015 05:15 <DIR> PerfLogs
07/28/2015 17:28 <DIR> Program Files
07/28/2015 17:28 <DIR> Program Files (x86)
07/28/2015 21:10 <DIR> Recovery
07/28/2015 20:50 <DIR> Users
07/28/2015 17:34 <DIR> WINDOWS
0 File(s) 0 bytes
8 Dir(s) 6,548,574,208 bytes free
C:\Users\Joshua>
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So new to the world, and yet already producing memes!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLFLaHHWEAAtVOX.png)
FTFY
(http://i.imgur.com/MXy9ccs.png)
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So, has anyone here gotten the rollout yet?
I, sadly, have not :(
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I just got Win 7 last week, so I'm gonna wait a good several months before I even think about whether to upgrade. Let the early adopters find all the kinks in it.
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It saves windows.old under \users? With all the previous programs as well? ****ing hell. Jesus F Christ.
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No. It is saved under system root, typically C:.
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facedesk (paffffff) you're right
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Are these things I should worry about? http://prntscr.com/7ykzbh
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Nonserious answer: It's a jpg with MS Paint lines all over it, so no.
Serious answer: Well, disabling real-time protection is a really ****ing stupid idea that noone should seriously entertain. Everything else can and should be disabled, but do recall the old maxim "If you're getting software for free you're not the customer, you're the product".
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:/ I had hopes that maxim wouldn't be the case, since they are still selling windows licences... just not to those who already had previous licences.
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You can also refer to this handy guide: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/30/windows-10-privacy-settings/
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It saves windows.old under \users? With all the previous programs as well? ****ing hell. Jesus F Christ.
:wtf: I did put the output of dir there, did you mis-read it? All of those directories (Windows, Program Files, Users, et al) are in \Windows.old ...
So, has anyone here gotten the rollout yet?
I, sadly, have not :(
I've gotten the rollout, they're doing Insiders first.
Nonserious answer: It's a jpg with MS Paint lines all over it, so no.
Serious answer: Well, disabling real-time protection is a really ****ing stupid idea that noone should seriously entertain. Everything else can and should be disabled, but do recall the old maxim "If you're getting software for free you're not the customer, you're the product".
Windows will cost $119. So, you are again the customer. It's free for a year, and only for home users having a GenuineTM version of Windows 7 SP1 or Windows 8.1 and/or those who have participated in the Windows Insider program.
EDIT Insert: As far as privacy, remember, the Preview edition would probably have defaulted to more phone home-ish settings. Then again, MS stands to benefit in multiple ways from harvesting user data, so do double-check privacy on the release builds as well! :nod: Share what you want, lock the rest.
Bleh, I only partially formatted the following quote, you all can just click the darn link (https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/3eysm7/windows_10_megathread/) or suffer the lack of formatting / hyperlinks :P
My info sucks, so the following is courtesy of /u/illage2's Windows 10 megathread in /r/pcmasterrace, thanks so much for compiling all of this!
Thought I'd complie all the information about Windows 10 since its out tomorrow to allow people to be more informed before they upgrade.
Please be aware that as with any new Windows OS there may be problems so some people might want to give this a couple of weeks before deciding to upgrade.
Edit: Thanks to the mods for stickying this thread
A very good peice of advice from /u/Shiroi_Kage
- If you're upgrading and are afraid of problems, DO NOT UPGRADE BEFORE SAVING A SYSTEM IMAGE! With a system image you can roll your system back to the way it was before the update, stored files and all. This is the safest option, and I would recommend it to everyone.
Even more brilliant advice coming from /u/madscientistEE
- Update your anti-virus software if it's anything other than Windows Defender / Security Essentials. Some vendors, most notably Symantec (both SEP and Norton), require an engine upgrade to work with Windows 10.
Defragment your hard disk before upgrading. SSD users should run a TRIM. (The Windows 8 defrag utility is smart enough to TRIM when you click "optimize")
After the upgrade, clean up. Run "disk cleanup" and select the "Clean system files" option. Doing this will clear out 20-30GB of crap (your old Windows folder). This does prevent an in-place downgrade but it improves performance and saves disk. Once you clean up all the stuff you can, defragment the hard disk again. (or run a TRIM if you have an SSD)
Thanks for /u/funnybuttrape for informing us about the following folder
Make sure you don't install W10 from that folder.
Some more advice from /u/Heavyoak
- bit of advice to add, check to make sure your mobo is updated: http://www.maximumpc.com/windows-10-graphics-cards-and-motherboard-drivers-updating/
http://www.pcgamer.com/get-your-motherboard-ready-for-windows-10/
It is Free for most people
For an entire year (up to July 29th 2016) an upgrade to Windows 10 is free for everyone if you are running Windows 7 SP1 or Windows 8.1.
If you are on Windows 7 enterprise. (Insert star trek jokes here) then you need to read this from Microsoft's FAQ.
- Enterprise customers with active Software Assurance subscription in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 enterprise offerings outside of this offer.
After the year is finished it is currently unknown how much Windows 10 will cost. Thanks to /u/KloudAlhpa the cost of the upgrade after the year is $119 / £99.99 or your regional equivelent https://i.imgur.com/7FuaHw4.png
Edit: To clear up any confusion. I meant to say that you can get Windows 10 for free within a year of it launching. Once you have it, it is free forever. No subscriptions of any kind. Reservation
Resvering your upgrade can be done via the small windows logo in the notification area. If you do not have this, then make sure you install the latest updates for your OS. Then all you need to do is reserve it. The OS will download ahead of time and then you'll be notified when it is ready to install.
Keep in mind that MS are rolling it out so don't be too surprised if you don't get to use Windows 10 on July 29th.
If you have all the latest updates for your OS and still can't see the reservation icon. Then try heading here and reserving that way.
Or you can try what /u/10se1ucgo said in the comments.
I had the same exact issue as you, no scripts or task scheduler magic was working, and someone suggested to (in an elevated [admin]) CMD prompt type. start ms-gwx:reserve And it worked!
Edit: To address concerns about the specific times Windows 10 will be released. Microsoft hasn't given any specifcs about release times. So for the time being you'll just have to play the waiting game.
Will it work?
In short if you can run Windows 7 SP1 or Windows 8.1 and meet these requirements. Windows 10 should work just fine. During the resevration process it'll also show you if any hardware or software isn't compatible.
Windows 7 Ultimate / Pro upgrades?
If you have Windows 7 pro or Ultimate you'll be upgraded to Windows 10 pro. If you have Windows 7 home etc then you'll upgrade to Windows 10 home. See here for the upgrade chart.
Windows XP upgrade to Windows 10?
At this moment in time there's no word on this but assume for now at least that you can't upgrade XP to Windows 10. If you want Windows 10 then upgrade to Windows 7 and then upgrade to Windows 10.
Besides if your still running XP there's a chance your hardware can't support Windows 10.
Windows Vista Upgrade to Windows 10
As with Windows XP. Upgrading from Vista to Windows 10 is not yet supported. Same thing applies. Upgrade to genuine Windows 7 and then upgrade to Windows 10. Non-Genuine upgrades
Sadly if you are using a non genuine version of Windows then you cannot upgrade to Windows 10. Microsoft did actually say otherwise a few months back but they did a 180 on this.
Some people with non-genuine Windows 7 / 8.1 have been seeing the icon to reserve Windows 10. Most likely case is that you'll upgrade to a non-genuine version of Windows 10.
What about game compatibility?
I've posted this several times already. But from the looks of things a lot of games (including games from GoG) should work just fine on Windows 10.
See here for a list of compatible games.
Here is GOG's statement.
Upgrade or fresh install?
If you want Windows 10 for free, you should first upgrade and make sure everything works. Then from within Windows 10 you should be able to do a fresh install.
If doing a fresh install you can try using Ninite to install essential software quickly.
This comes from /u/Just_made_this_now in regards to Ninite
Also be aware that when using ninite, you're not able to install programs to a different drive other than your C drive/default. So say if you have an older 120GB SSD for Windows and programs on a separate drive, you may want to consider getting a larger SSD if you're doing a fresh install and want to use Ninite. The dev had made it quite clear they had no plans to support custom install locations, the last time I checked.
Chocolatey on the other hand, supports it, albeit will need a bit of know-how:
Overriding default install directory or other advanced install concepts
If you do an upgrade then you shouldn't have to reinstall anything.
This video will explain it a little bit more.
A comment from /u/Ikkerens
After upgrading I extracted my Windows Key using The Ultimate PID Checker , this allowed me to reinstall Windows 10 from ISO using that key.
What about Drivers / Updates
I've not heard much about this as of yet, but a forced update on Windows 10 might mess a few things up but MS are releasing a ultilty for Windows 10 Home users that lets you block certian updates.
Windows 10 pro already has a feature alllowing users to "Defer" upgrades. Which allows them to control when they recieve updates.
As for actual drivers there seems to be people in the comments that have had no issues with Windows 10. As stated at the top of this thread there might be some issues with some drivers so go into this with that in mind.
DX12
For those wondering nVida has stated that DX12 is backwards compatible with a lot of their older cards. So don't panic if you don't have an 900 series card.
AMD are also going to make it backwards comatible but probably not to the same extent as nVida.
Nvidia will support DX12 on every Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell-class GPU. That means nearly every GTX 400, 500, and 600 series card will be supported. Interestingly, AMD isn’t necessarily following suit — the company has indicated that it will support DX12 on all GCN-based hardware, but hasn’t indicated if HD 6000 or HD 5000 cards will be included in that.
/u/madscientistEE has provided more information on AMD DX12 compatibility.
AMD DX12 Support Info!
Only GCN cards are supported and pre-GCN cards will operate at their native feature level. (The HD6570s at work run just peachy, but they're still DX11 cards.)
Which GPUs are Graphics Core Next and which ones are the old TeraScale architecture is unusually confusing to determine so here's the rundown:
Discrete GPUs
All HD6xxx and 5xxx cards are Terascale. No DX12 for you.
All Radeon HD 7700 and up cards are GCN. (HD7600 and lower are TeraScale)
All Radeon HD 85xx cards are GCN. (HD84xx and lower are TeraScale)
All Radeon Rx-200 series R5-240 and higher are GCN. The R5-235 and lower are TeraScale.
All Rx-300 series GPUs are GCN.
Advanced Processing Units (APUs)
All Bobcat based APUs (Desna, Ontario, Zacate cores) are TeraScale. (and way too slow for most games anyway, who cares?)
All FM1 and FM2 APUs are TeraScale. (Richland, Trinity, Llano cores)
All FM2+ "Kaveri" APUs and later are GCN. Also all FP3 and FP4 mobile APUs are GCN (Kaveri and Carrizo cores)
All AM1/FS1b "Kabini" APUs are GCN as are the FT3 and FT3b mobile parts (Kabini, Temash, Beema, Mullins)
GPU's
According to /u/auto_pilot there's seems to be issues with crossfire.
I'm running insider build, clean install and most programs and games work fine as long as I don't turn on crossfire. The minute crossfire is on everything gets chunky and crashes as far as games go.
There's currently no word on SLI support for Windows 10.
Overclocking
/u/mbot57 seems to have found an issue with overlclocking.
It should be noted that as of the RTM release (WIP build 10240) there is still an OS lock on overclocking CPUs. Discovered having tested identical hardware on both Windows 7 sp1 and windows 10 WIP build 10240 (and previous versions).
Differences between pro and home versions of Windows 10.
See this link for more information. download the table and it'll be fairly easy to understand. Thanks to /u/uCrap4Brainz for the link.
Security and Anti-Virus / Anti-Malware
Windows 10 will come with Windows Defender (its Security Essentials under a new name). So you might want to swap out for something else. Below are some good Anti Virus and Anti-Malware programs you can use
Avast
Malware Bytes
AVG
Avira
Others which people have recommended in the comments.
Everything else
For everything else WinBeta has made an excellent video going through Windows 10.
How to Geek has put together some good articles on Windows 10 already for things like tweaking and disabling / enabling certain features and functionality. Make sure to check them out.
Hopefully this has helped. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
Personal Experience from /u/illage2
Well I now have Windows 10 and I have to say upgrading was a nightmare. It took about 1.5 hours, and then when I finally got into Windows 10 the performance was terrible. However I found that resetting my PC under settings seems to resolve it, but sadly you'll lose all the stuff you had installed.
If you want to do a fresh install after upgrading go to Settings > Update & Security > Recovery > Reset this PC you can either reset and keep your files or just reset and delete everything.
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C:\Users\Joshua>
'Oi! What are you doing on my computer!?
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The more I read about windows 10, the less I want it. Even on my 8.1 laptop. We used to call software that behaved like this SPYware. Considering buying another copy or two of windows 7 before they disappear forever.
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Yeah, I'm definitely sticking to Windows 7 for a lot longer now. Never had any serious problem with it and I don't fancy spending ages sorting out issues like this.
I'm also still wondering what happens if a year and a half from now I need to reinstall the OS.
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I planned to upgrade from 7 to 10 after it releases, but after reading about the privacy violations I have decided to go with Windows 8.1 instead (Metro does not concern me, there is Classic Shell for that).
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Yeah, I'm definitely sticking to Windows 7 for a lot longer now. Never had any serious problem with it and I don't fancy spending ages sorting out issues like this.
I'm also still wondering what happens if a year and a half from now I need to reinstall the OS.
... you re-install it, and it activates online. Just like every Windows since XP if your system is still the same.
Honestly, most folks who decide to stick with older versions of Windows will probably end up upgrading with their hardware, I'm thinking.
..cause if you don't want the hassle of figuring out how to get Windows 10 to function the way you want it, I'm thinking you're not going to want to figure out how to get Windows 7 running on new hardware coming out a few years from now.
And I suppose that's not entirely a bad thing. Mas o menos.
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I don't get what all the fuss is about. It took me about half an hour to get it to work exactly the way I wanted, and most of this was reading descriptions of every service to decided if I want it or not. I had to mess with registry only once, to disable sending telemetry data to M$. So far, my impressions are positive. It's got all the good parts of Windows 8.1 (mostly talking about performance here) with a better interface, more customization and somewhat better looks (still not as pretty as 7, but I can live with the aesthetics). I'm definitely upgrading from Windows 7 on my main computer. Now that I know what to do, it'll take 10 minutes and I'll have it running exactly how I want. No spying, no forced restarts, old-style QuickLaunch bar, full control. :) BTW, options for doing that are even easier to access than they used to be.
Edge is utter crap, though. Couldn't figure out how to tell it to save a download somewhere other than in the default location. It's possible that it can't do that, which would be utterly ridiculous. Oh, and it turned out changing the default requires a registry edit. So looks like I'll stick to Chrome. Dunno what they were thinking.
Didn't try out Cortana yet, but looks like a gimmick, not to mention one that talks. Considering I sometimes use my laptop in areas where silence is appreciated, it doesn't look like it'll see much use.
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... you re-install it
You've completely glossed over the important part of the answer. How on Earth do I reinstall it? Do I need to reinstall Windows 7? Do I need to redownload Windows 10? Will the Windows 10 download even still be available? What happens if Windows 11 or 12 is out?
I have no desire to do a "free" upgrade if I end up having to buy the OS a year later cause it's cocked up and I'm too used to it to downgrade to Windows 7.
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https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
If you need to install or reinstall Windows 10, you can use the tools on this page to create your own installation media using either a USB flash drive or a DVD.
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Yes, I noticed that once I started looking around. But what do you do if after a year you need to reinstall and you haven't already made one of those disks?
Quite frankly, right now it looks like the smartest thing I could do is to clone my HD, upgrade to Windows 10, downgrade again and only go back to Windows 10 whenever I need to.
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Quite frankly, right now it looks like the smartest thing I could do is to clone my HD, upgrade to Windows 10, downgrade again and only go back to Windows 10 whenever I need to.
That would be the smart money, yes (assuming you didn't want to stay with 10 after trying it).
But,
Yes, I noticed that once I started looking around. But what do you do if after a year you need to reinstall and you haven't already made one of those disks?
Use the Download Tool - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Create the install media you want
Profit!
(In other words, it appears M$ finally caught on that you can download a genuine bit-for-bit copy of their install disks, and is now offering that as a service instead of a back alley deal. License verification (or 1337 h@ck3ry if you don't wish to do that and can find the right tools) occurs after install. The Win 10 key you are given is a generic OEM key and is tied to your hardware. source (https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3f02fu/psa_you_must_upgrade_your_existing_windows_os_to/).
Now, it's possible MS will deactivate the download option. However, i doubt it, as that does not make sense.
Also!
How to reset your Windows 10 install to factory default without the need for re-installation: (yes, they finally got it!)
Source: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-10/refresh-in-windows-10#
Refresh is part of reset in Windows 10
Step 1: Open the Start menu, and then select Settings > Update & security > Recovery.
(http://helixbing.blob.core.windows.net/stepimages/33ac9bb1-1704-406a-afb1-3528c59d3dfc.jpeg)
Step 2: Under Reset this PC, select Get started.
(http://helixbing.blob.core.windows.net/stepimages/569765fa-734e-4661-9dd4-7ffef8497a75.jpeg)
Step 3: Select Keep my files. This option keeps your files plus apps that came with your PC. Apps you installed and changes you made to settings will be removed.
(http://helixbing.blob.core.windows.net/stepimages/17394afb-973d-4d99-8355-32df0b7003c7.jpeg)
(of course you could wipe your personal files etc if you wanted or were giving away the PC or something)
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Reading more about the rollout, I'm going to upgrade the laptop (Win7 Home Premium) as soon as they get the kinks worked out of 10 (and hopefully consolidate the privacy mess into some easier-to-manage single areas). The desktop is trickier.
Research suggests that the Windows 10 license is based on a unique hardware hash generated when you install it, for the life of the PC.... and only that PC. Past experience suggest MS may let you reactivate on new hardware, but those of us with Retail Windows 7 keys (which can be used on any PC, as long as its only one install at a time) will lose that flexibility. With plans to upgrade the desktop hardware in the next year, I figure I'd better wait until the hardware upgrade is done to actually use my "free" Windows 10 upgrade off this Win7 license, or I'm going to have to buy the damn OS anyway.
Honestly Microsoft, your ****ing complicated bull**** licensing is easily among the top three worst things about your products.
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I tried burning an ISO. Failed with the "Something Happened" error. **** that ****, if it's ****ing up on even making the ISO, I'm not allowing it anywhere near my PC.
@MP - I agree with you. If it will let me make my own ISO for use on other PCs, why the **** haven't they just put the ISOs up for download?
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Hunh. I just managed to make both a Win10 Pro (desktop) and another Win10 Home (laptop), both x64, disc using the media creator here. ISOs built flawlessly and burned. Haven't actually tried them yet, but the discs verified...
One word of caution - several resources have indicated that the procedure to get a clean install of 10 requires an upgrade-in-place first. Here's how:
1. Download the Media Creator tool if Win10 hasn't deployed to your system already through the update.
2. Run the tool. Select update another PC, and build the ISO that matches your current system. Remove the disc.
3. Run the tool again. Select "Upgrade this PC."
4. Allow it to do it's full upgrade. Note that it will apparently do one reboot, and start running but with more updates, but a second will actually getting it properly running afterward.
5. Now insert the disc, and use the clean install option to format and reinstall Windows 10.
***DO NOT INSERT LICENSE KEYS ANYWHERE DURING THIS PROCESS. ALWAYS SKIP.
Following this procedure will apparently leave Windows 10 to self-activate based on the hardware hash it generated during your first upgrade-in-place, and you should never have to reinsert a license key afterward during a reinstall as that hash is stored with MS. If you try to clean install up front, it won't generate properly.
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First there was the revelation that Solitaire, the game that’s come free with pretty much every version of Windows ever, now has ads. That you need to pay a monthly fee of $1.49 to remove.
Well that tears it. Not touching this ****.
(And yes, apparently it was like that in 8 too, but I didn't touch that **** either so I didn't know.)
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I have yet to find solitare (or any other built-in game) in windows 8. If it involves the store, then that explains it because I absolutely REFUSE to have a microsoft account and so far I have yet to find a way to make the store work without one. Including updating existing apps.
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I'm also still wondering what happens if a year and a half from now I need to reinstall the OS.
Windows 8 and newer have two reset options. The first reinstalls the operating system, but leaves your stuff alone. You don't need to reinstall any software and your files are safe. The second option option has three sub-options.
1) Securely erase everything and reinstall operating system.
2) Same as the first option, but without secure erase.
3) Erase system drive only and reinstall operating system. Other partitions are left alone. Meaning you should copy your stuff from C: to another drive if you want to keep them.
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I tried burning an ISO. Failed with the "Something Happened" error. **** that ****, if it's ****ing up on even making the ISO, I'm not allowing it anywhere near my PC.
@MP - I agree with you. If it will let me make my own ISO for use on other PCs, why the **** haven't they just put the ISOs up for download?
That's... odd. I just created A Pro x86 and x64 (both) ISO with no problems. Server load, maybe? (And I assume that is why they have the 'media creation tool' -- this way, they can download a ~2GB compressed ESD file and convert it into a ~6GB ISO, instead of using the bandwidth for a straight ISO download.)
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Thing is, I don't particularly care why it happened. It's an indication of poor programming and quality control. Any programmer who wrote "Something Happened" as an error message should be shot on principle.
And anyone in the entire design team who let it pass and thought it okay should be waterboarded.
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It's probably so that the general population will quit freaking out about "illegal operations", "fatal exceptions", and alien-sounding hex codes.
Speaking of hex codes, did you happen to catch which one was thrown?
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Nope. Doesn't matter, it worked the second time I tried.
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I suspect it might be something akin to FSO's INT3() errors (notice that it tells you about as much). A default failure mode that is, by design, impossible to reach. Funny things tend to happen if you do. That it worked a second time without fixing anything indicates some freak situation that nobody would've thought could happen.
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Decided to experiment on my own machine, setup got to 50% and then froze for a day. Finally manually powered off. Boot manager was wiped out, gonna stick with 8.1 once I can reinstall it unless Microsoft fixes the **** out of this.
Edit: Also, "something has happened" just sounds super annoying in my head when tackling an issue like this.
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I suspect it might be something akin to FSO's INT3() errors (notice that it tells you about as much). A default failure mode that is, by design, impossible to reach. Funny things tend to happen if you do. That it worked a second time without fixing anything indicates some freak situation that nobody would've thought could happen.
The difference is that Int3() basically crashes the program with no message. Most people recognise that as being a sign something happened. In this case, someone has gone to the effort of making it spit out a useless and pointless error message and a hex code identifying it. Which means that something useful could have been printed instead but they couldn't be arsed.
You may have noticed that the SCP team have basically stopped putting Int3() calls into the code in favour of something more useful. Does that mean we are more professional than Microsoft? Actually it probably does.
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You may have noticed that the SCP team have basically stopped putting Int3() calls into the code in favour of something more useful. Does that mean we are more professional than Microsoft? Actually it probably does.
I have strong feelings about application developers who think they're being customer friendly by making error messages (or status messages in general) "friendly to read". That whole bull**** Win 8 and 10 go through after the first login (You know, "We're setting up a few things" etc) makes me very angry indeed. Especially since one of those messages is "Things are taking longer than expected", which in a neat little nutshell shows everything wrong with the approach. That message pops up on slower computers like my Laptop; it's completely stupid because a) it's vaguely worrying and b) it doesn't actually tell me anything.
No, random error codes are not good feedback. I want as many details as I can possibly get so that I know what to look for to get the answers I need; while an error code would in theory suffice for that, MS's knowledge base is borderline unusable.
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The really dumb thing is that this happened when I was in the process of creating a .iso file for clean installs. That's not something you do if you are computer literate anyway. In order to be able to do it I had to follow multiple steps to find and download the "MediaCreationTool" but most importantly, I had to know what the **** to do with an .iso file. Maybe I'm over-rating people but I believe that if you know what to do with an .iso file you are capable of understanding an error message a bit more useful than "Something Happened"
What really sticks in my craw is I later realised what might have happened. I was doing several things with my computer at the time and I suspect I ran out of hard drive space on C: (even though I was writing the .iso to D:). By the time I noticed the error, I had already cleaned up and had over 20 gigs free. But at one point I might have actually used them up.
As far as I'm concerned, running out of HD space absolutely should be a foreseeable error when you're dealing with downloading the necessary files to make a 6GB .iso file. Assuming that it was actually that which caused the problem, a simple "You have run out of space on C:" error message would tell me to make sure I was careful how much space I was using on C when I ran the installer the second time. As it was, I simply had to cross my fingers and hope.
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Yup, it sure sounds like Windows 10 is going to be a skip for me. Things haven't gone the way I'd have appreciated, so my money's gonna be in Linux when Windows 7 runs out of steam.
And on top of it, operating system level cloud and Microsoft store integration in a corporate environment computer? What is Microsoft smoking? From the point of view of a corporate client, this direction does not exactly inspire me with confidence over my data security or anything really. I suspect a lot of companies are going to skip Windows 10 as well.
Hmm, I got a blue screen from Windows 7 yesterday which suspiciously happened after a windows update. So is it THAT time again, Microsoft? ( = breaking former products to sell newer ones)
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Did any of you get the Windows 10 update download in the background through the reservation system? I had - wrongly - assumed that once it decided it was "ready" it would give me the option of whether or not to download, not queue it into Windows Update and prevent me from updating Win7 on its own.
Just want to make sure that once this downloads it isn't going to do it's own upgrade without my say-so.
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Well, it'll ask you, but the options I've seen are only "now" and "later". I left it in the background for a while, then installed, so I don't know if you can just tell it to go away, but there likely is a way.
The difference is that Int3() basically crashes the program with no message. Most people recognise that as being a sign something happened. In this case, someone has gone to the effort of making it spit out a useless and pointless error message and a hex code identifying it. Which means that something useful could have been printed instead but they couldn't be arsed.
Maybe the way Windows is written means that every crash gets a message and a code (and that would be the generic values)? That said, if that's really what you suspect (out of HD space), then it really is a case of idiot programming.
As for the SCP team, it's a project much smaller than Windows, not to mention it's made by people who actually like it and find making it fun, as opposed to a bunch of corporate code monkeys under the boot of a clueless manager. :) It's a lot easier to be professional when you actually care about what you're doing.
I have strong feelings about application developers who think they're being customer friendly by making error messages (or status messages in general) "friendly to read". That whole bull**** Win 8 and 10 go through after the first login (You know, "We're setting up a few things" etc) makes me very angry indeed. Especially since one of those messages is "Things are taking longer than expected", which in a neat little nutshell shows everything wrong with the approach. That message pops up on slower computers like my Laptop; it's completely stupid because a) it's vaguely worrying and b) it doesn't actually tell me anything.
I also hate those "user friendly". Idiot friendly more like. Not only are they not very informative, they actually get condescending in few places. I disabled automatic restarts in Windows 7 partially because I was annoyed by the "I know better than you what's good for this computer" attitude in the Windows Update messages.
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What really sticks in my craw is I later realised what might have happened. I was doing several things with my computer at the time and I suspect I ran out of hard drive space on C: (even though I was writing the .iso to D:). By the time I noticed the error, I had already cleaned up and had over 20 gigs free. But at one point I might have actually used them up.
Windows (since XP? VIsta?) has this extremely annoying habit of putting everything into the temp directory first, and only then moving it to its destination. I'm sure it's a case of dumb users trying to open half-downloaded / moved files, but it's still annoying because everything gets handled twice and you'd best have gobs of hard disk space.
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I ran the upgrade today, and thought i'd share my experience here.
1. I actually did not mean to run the whole upgrade today. I thought I would get a prompt to either upgrade this PC now, or to create upgrade media, and I was going to download the .iso first and burn it to DVD. I guess there is some other sort of download tool I should have used for that, though. It said it was preparing my PC, so I thought maybe it was installing some final compatibility updates or something. But once I saw "windows is updating; do not turn off your PC" I decided to let it run its course.
2. The upgrade process itself went fairly smoothly and was hands-off. At one point I saw that after a restart it was "attempting to recover the installation", which it did successfully. I didn't time it, but the whole process took aver half an hour.
3. When it was all done, the screen asked me if I was Michael (I am), and I clicked yes. I did not sign in with my Microsoft account. Windows 10 desktop appeared, but it was not my old desktop background or theme, and most of my desktop icons were missing. Going through the personalization menu, I could not find any of my themes I had created before. I tried opening something (I don't remember what), and UAC popped up asking for an administrator password. Oh, hail, no! Not on my account. Wait, is this my account? No, it had booted into my daughter's password-restricted account! It took me a few minutes to figure out how to log out of that and log into my account. There were my icons, background, etc.! UAC was still enabled so I shut that nonsense off again.
4. Edge did not automatically import my favorites, settings, and homepage tabs from IE. Yes, I prefer IE to other bowsers; don't hate. I found the option to import favorites from IE or Chrome, but it did not list Firefox, which is also installed.
5. IE11 is also installed under Windows 10, but it seems to run very slowly.
6. The only program I have had to reinstall do far was my Logitech Gaming Software for my G700s mouse. Oh, and I had to uninstall Trend Micro's RUBotted beta software before I could upgrade.
6a. I had no sound but did not realize it until several hours later. Device manager showed all OK, nothing was muted, and all wires connected. But the Realtek software said I had no speakers, and the windows sound configuration would not play test tones because the device was unsupported. I reinstalled the driver using the one form Realtek's site. It uninstalled the old one, but said the new install failed. I tried anyway, and the sound is working now, but I no longer have the realtek software that I rarely used anyway. I'll investigate further in the morning.
7. I have tried only one game so far - a quick skirmish on C&C3: Kane's Wrath expansion. It ran flawlessly.
I plan on posting further updates as I discover new issues, etc. I just wanted to get down some initial thoughts while they were fresh in my mind.
I also plan on doing a clean install soon-ish, on a formatted SSD. I'm just dreading reinstalling all my programs, but windows 7 was starting to flake out on me even before the upgrade, and I am not sure if it was an issue with windows, drivers, undetected malware, some other software, or hardware. I know my SSD has "dirty bit" set, but it would always hang when I ran diskcheck, so I disabled diskcheck for that drive. I'm hoping a reformat will clear that up. My PC has been randomly hibernating (even while I am typing) and locking up (but no BSOD), so I wonder if it related to the dirty bit.
EDIT: Added 6a.
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I also hate those "user friendly". Idiot friendly more like. Not only are they not very informative, they actually get condescending in few places. I disabled automatic restarts in Windows 7 partially because I was annoyed by the "I know better than you what's good for this computer" attitude in the Windows Update messages.
I love this, it reminds me of Sheldon in the Big Bang Theory, "My new laptop has Windows 7. Windows 7 is more user friendly than Windows Vista................................... I don't like that!"
:D :lol: :wakka:
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I'll wait until people say it's satisfactory. There's a lot of whining going on about how it monitors things unless disabled, including keylogging apparently to make it easy for support to see what you did wrong when you ask for help. It might be a bunch of hogwash but I'll wait until people say it's fine.
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Thing is, those parts are NEVER going away. Their "it's free!!!" play seems to have worked and they've got enough oblivious or apathetic users on it to force it through.
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I won't be upgrading to it either until it's been around for a while, but I do want DX12 sooner or later.
3. When it was all done, the screen asked me if I was Michael (I am), and I clicked yes. I did not sign in with my Microsoft account. Windows 10 desktop appeared, but it was not my old desktop background or theme, and most of my desktop icons were missing. Going through the personalization menu, I could not find any of my themes I had created before.
Are there any theme patchers available (or necessary) for it? I use a custom theme in Windows 8.1 but need a theme patcher to make it work, which gets occasionally reverted and broken by Windows updates (which is why I never use auto-updates).
I assume that most peripheral drivers that work on Windows 8.1 would still work with Windows 10, like the Creative X-fi drivers and VSTMIDI. These are interchangeable between Vista, 7 and 8, as the driver model is largely the same. It would be nice if someone confirms that though.
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I won't be upgrading to it either until it's been around for a while, but I do want DX12 sooner or later.
3. When it was all done, the screen asked me if I was Michael (I am), and I clicked yes. I did not sign in with my Microsoft account. Windows 10 desktop appeared, but it was not my old desktop background or theme, and most of my desktop icons were missing. Going through the personalization menu, I could not find any of my themes I had created before.
Are there any theme patchers available (or necessary) for it? I use a custom theme in Windows 8.1 but need a theme patcher to make it work, which gets occasionally reverted and broken by Windows updates (which is why I never use auto-updates).
http://www.windowsxlive.net/ <- 10 support, check
EDIT: Good summary of Win 10 privacy from the site linked to at the bottom of this post:
Windows 10 has some handy new features, but if you believe the rest of the internet, it also comes with features that eviscerate any semblance of privacy. But that view is a little overblown. Let’s take a closer look at what each of these settings actually do—and which ones are actually a privacy problem.
Windows 10 has a reputation for “phoning home” more often than its predecessors, and while that’s primarily true, much of this was already present in Windows 8—and an awful lot of it is present in other products like Android, iOS, and Chrome. That’s not to say all of those settings are good, just that there’s very little new happening here.
You can read the privacy statement for Windows 10 here. It’s not quite as sweeping as the Windows Insider Preview policy that caused so much commotion, but it’s still very broad (as most privacy policies are).
Plenty of sites have published lists of all the features you should turn off in Windows 10 to protect your privacy, but many don’t explain in detail what each of these settings do, which makes it hard to separate FUD from fact. So let’s go through those settings and explain what we know about them, where the real problems are, and how to turn everything off.
I'll wait until people say it's satisfactory. There's a lot of whining going on about how it monitors things unless disabled, including keylogging apparently to make it easy for support to see what you did wrong when you ask for help. It might be a bunch of hogwash but I'll wait until people say it's fine.
IIRC the keylogger etc was just for the Technical Preview and gets turned off. Actually:
So it’s not a “keylogger”, it’s more of a text analysis engine that takes already written text, scrubs it and takes words out of sequence, and analyzes them for dictionary and spellcheck purposes. However, once again, the language is extremely broad, and this is probably the most troubling privacy setting on the system.
Here's a rundown on what all the privacy settings do, and how to turn them off if you so desire: (it's quite a comprehensive list)
http://lifehacker.com/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-1722267229
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"Other companies (with terrible reputations for user rights/privacy) already do this" is not a valid reason to accept terrible privacy practices. I don't condemn anyone for taking the position of "I can turn this off so I don't mind," but I personally find MS's attempts to make blocking their spying as difficult as possible unacceptable and I won't support their software that does this. I don't want DX12 that badly. I DID want to replace 8.1 with 10 to get the start menu back, but now I think I'll just find some 3rd party stuff for 8.1.
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At this point i'm just waiting for someone to get a system-level adblock plus equivalent running and calling it a day :p
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"Other companies (with terrible reputations for user rights/privacy) already do this" is not a valid reason to accept terrible privacy practices. I don't condemn anyone for taking the position of "I can turn this off so I don't mind," but I personally find MS's attempts to make blocking their spying as difficult as possible unacceptable and I won't support their software that does this. I don't want DX12 that badly. I DID want to replace 8.1 with 10 to get the start menu back, but now I think I'll just find some 3rd party stuff for 8.1.
:wtf: Did you miss the little quip where most if not all of this is already in 8.1? At least you have the options of turning that stuff off (unlike other above-mentioned companies.
Seriously. You guys all like to hate MS products, which I get, but then act like previous iterations were somehow not MS products. Why aren't you running a distro of Linux? And if you have to run Microsoft, why not run the latest offering and shut off all of the crap that gets you upset? There's like 40 different settings you can turn off in that article I linked, with descriptions so you're not just blindly shutting everything off including possibly useful features.
I guess I'm saying, unless you're going to switch to Linux, I know which operating system you'll be using in 5 years, so I don't see what all the fuss is about, considering all the stuff you don't like is optional.
If you're boycotting 10, please tell me you don't use a smart phone. Or Facebook. :ick:
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Pretty much most of us have said we're happy with Windows 7. So I don't accept your "YOU MUST LIKE AND USE WINDOWS 10 OR YOU"RE A LUDDITE" argument.
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Don't burst a vein jr2. What do you care about others, just leave 'em be. This subject is not worth arguing over.
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There's like 40 different settings
That pretty much sums it up right there. There are forty (or whatever the number actually is) settings I need to worry about strewn all over the OS to keep my data out of Microsoft's servers.
And I believe you missed the point of my post if you're going to go the "8.1 already had it" route. I hate these 'features' in 8.1 also.
I wonder, if you install spybot on windows 10, does it try to remove the OS?
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Well, a program like Spybot that keeps track of all the features that require data collection, and presents them to the user for approval with simple explanations, all in one convenient place, would be nice for those who are concerned about their privacy and stay off of Facebook, Twitter, etc and don't have smartphones unless they are running a custom ROM with all of that stuff either off or controllable... wait, those are the same people who won't run anything other than official MS Windows... nope, yer all screwed. :P
EDIT: Don't burst a vein jr2. What do you care about others, just leave 'em be. This subject is not worth arguing over.
I'm just trying to get people to see there are ways to have our cake and eat it, too. I know I've seen that horse drink water before...
Honestly, if you worry about your privacy, and refuse to run custom OS builds or be bothered with settings, then you should be running Linux. For real.
EDIT2: I'll just leave this here (http://blog.laptopmag.com/windows-10-privacy-issues-exaggerated) (this article supports leaving all of those options set to default)
Holy tin foil hat, Batman! If you’ve been reading the tech news lately, you’d think that Windows 10 was a giant piece of spyware rather than the latest version of the world’s most popular PC platform. Now that tens of millions of users have installed the new operating system, some people have noticed that Microsoft collects certain user data and they’re freaking out. Slate’s David Auerbach calls Windows 10 “a privacy nightmare,” while Rock, Paper, Shotgun writes that “Windows 10 is spying on you.” Zero Hedge, a conspiracy-focused news site, writes that “big brother is very much here . . . and we invited him into our homes for free.”
Should you be concerned? In a word, “no.” By default, Windows 10 sends some information about you and your activity to Microsoft, but the data it collects is largely designed to improve your user experience. Better still, if any or all of these features concern you, you can turn them off. Let’s take a closer look at what’s really going on here.Why You Shouldn’t Worry About Windows 10 Privacy
Microsoft is Collecting Data for Targeted Ads
Each Windows 10 computer is assigned a unique advertising ID so that programs that have ads can provide more targeted marketing messages to you. First of all, this feature is not unique to Windows; most Web advertisers track user activity for the purpose of serving relevant messages later. Ever browse Amazon and then go to an unrelated website and see an ad for the product you were just looking at? With everything they know about you, Facebook and Google are particularly good at reaching you.
Second of all, you want targeted advertising. Turning off your advertising ID only ensures that you get worse ads, not fewer ads. Would you rather see flashing banners for miracle belly fat cures and get-rich-quick schemes, or promotions for a video game you’re likely to play or a gadget you might need? Windows 10 does not show you ads, by the way. Individual apps can show ads just as they do on Android and iOS.
Cortana Knows About You
Microsoft’s digital assistant, Cortana, uses data it collects about you to present timely, targeted information. When you click on the search box, Cortana shows you a series of cards with your upcoming appointments, local weather and sports scores. In order to match this information to your lifestyle, the software needs to know your location, access your calendar and gather data about what interests you.
You can’t have a context-aware operating system if you’re not willing to provide the context. If you want Cortana to track your flights, it needs to read your email to look for an itinerary message. If you’d like it to “show me all the emails from Mark that I haven’t read,” it has to see your contact lists to know who Mark is.
Unlike Google Now, which has been doing the same thing for Android users since 2011, Cortana makes it really easy to adjust or delete what it knows about you. You can go directly into the Notebook and set your favorite sports team or decide to delete your location. You can also decline to share any particular type of information (email, calendar, flights) with the assistant. That’s pretty granular control.
Keyboard, Handwriting and Voice Tracking
In two places within its privacy settings, Windows 10 says that it can collect your handwriting, typing and voice. In the “getting to know you” section of the privacy settings, Microsoft says: “Windows and Cortana can get to know your voice and writing to make better suggestions for you. We’ll collect info like contacts, recent calendar events, speech and handwriting patterns and typing history.” (Emphasis mine.)
While the idea of capturing speech and writing sounds bad, this data can help the company improve its next-word prediction, voice interpretation and handwriting recognition for everyone. Also, if you take Microsoft’s word (and I will on this point), it doesn’t take any personally identifiable information and carefully anonymizes what it does take. In response to my questions about the “getting to know you” feature, the company said:
“Some of this data is stored on your device and some is sent to Microsoft to help improve these services. Data sent to Microsoft for product improvement is put through rigorous, multi-pass scrubs to remove sensitive or identifiable fields (such as email addresses, passwords and alphanumeric data) and strings are chopped into very small bits and stripped of sequence data to prevent the information from being identified or put back together.”
Windows Update Shares Bandwidth with Other Computers
When Windows 10 launched, 14 million people downloaded it in the first 24 hours and yet there were no system crashes. I was able to grab it four times in the first day and, in all cases, the 3- to-5GB download took 30 minutes or less. Microsoft achieved this strong performance by distributing the load among its users, in much the same way BitTorrent hosts files across hundreds or thousands of individuals’ computers. So, with this system in place, your computer may help send some of Microsoft’s Windows update files out to the Internet and you’ll benefit from other people doing the same. You can turn this feature off, but it doesn’t jeopardize your privacy.
Microsoft Accounts Sync to the Cloud
From the moment you install it or run it for the first time, Windows 10 wants you to use a Microsoft account as your login. You can set up a “local” account that lives only on the computer, but then you lose the ability to install apps from the Windows Store, among other key functions. By default, the account syncs settings to the cloud so that, if you log into another computer, preferences such as your Start menu, wallpaper, email account settings, calendar and contacts list come with you.
If you ask Cortana to “remind me to clean the toilet when I get home,” and you have the digital assistant on your phone, it will tell you to clean the moment you arrive, but that only works if you have a Microsoft account. If you have more than one device in your life — and who doesn’t — the benefits of using your free Microsoft account are obvious. Google’s accounts provide a similar experience syncing your Chrome browser settings between different computers and your phone.
It is a little bit ridiculous that your kids need Microsoft accounts if you want to set them up as “child” users in Windows 10. If you don’t want your elementary school student to have email, you can always register the child account yourself or you could give the kid a local account. However, the child accounts have really granular parental controls you won’t get elsewhere. Having that account tied to Microsoft allows parents to log in, set restrictions and view a list of every website the kids have visited, every app they’ve used and what times they were on the computer.
Bottom Line
Yes, by default, Windows 10 sends some information back to Microsoft, but every piece of data it collects provides a tangible benefit to the user. Even collecting data to use in advertising is a user service, because it leads to higher quality ads. To its credit, Microsoft provides a way to turn off any of the data-collecting features, but you’d be better off leaving them in place.
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wtv just installed took 15 minutes, had to reinstall graphic drivers, right click and press "update from the nets" bang. I'm happy.
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The phone-home issues are not such a big deal IMO, given that you can turn off everything with a little work. I would certainly do that though. A bigger problem is turning off automatic updates. It looks like the only solutions there are kind of hackish (disabling/enabling the service). This is a step backwards from 8.1 and earlier versions.
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This one seems easy, but it only works with Pro, they disabled the option for Home editions (if you were Technical Preview, you should be Pro AFAIK, I am):
http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8013-windows-update-automatic-updates-enable-disable-windows-10-a.html
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While the idea of capturing speech and writing sounds bad, this data can help the company improve its next-word prediction, voice interpretation and handwriting recognition for everyone. Also, if you take Microsoft’s word (and I will on this point), it doesn’t take any personally identifiable information and carefully anonymizes what it does take. In response to my questions about the “getting to know you” feature, the company said:
“Some of this data is stored on your device and some is sent to Microsoft to help improve these services. Data sent to Microsoft for product improvement is put through rigorous, multi-pass scrubs to remove sensitive or identifiable fields (such as email addresses, passwords and alphanumeric data) and strings are chopped into very small bits and stripped of sequence data to prevent the information from being identified or put back together.”
I also do recall there's such a thing as Patriot Act, which requires US based companies to deliver information by request of government. So here I mainly see a carefully picked wording by Microsoft, saying, not guaranteeing with conditions to monetary compensations if this goes wrong.
As I said earlier, Mika is going to Linux world when Windows 7 runs out of steam. I didn't touch Windows 8, nor will I touch 10 at home OR work. And to be honest, Microsoft never made it easier.
If there is one thing that is I just don't get is why MS thinks Cloud services or MS Store are of ANY importance to a corporate customer, this is a swing towards mass markets while saying "pay more for less" for the corporate side? I understand the swing towards the perceived more income providing customer, but given that the most bucks for Microsoft so far have came from corporate clients, this is really bizarre. Then again, cloud services integrated to MS Office are a red flag to a non-US corporate user as well.
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Some good comments on both sides here:
Link starting topic: http://windows.wonderhowto.com/inspiration/everything-you-need-disable-windows-10-0163552/
Discussion:
http://reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3gcai5/everything_you_need_to_disable_in_windows_10/
TIL: The wifi sharing everyone is complaining about is 'on' by default, but that only makes it available, you have to check the box saying you want to share it and type the password in again to actually share it - I knew that but thought it was only me as everyone was whining like it automatically shares all passwords with everyone in your social contacts lists. :eek:
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For those who don't want auto updates, play with this script to your liking:
# Description:
# This script optimizes Windows updates by disabling automatic download and
# seeding updates to other computers.
echo "Disable automatic download and installation of Windows updates"
$reg = @"
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU]
"NoAutoUpdate"=dword:00000000
"AUOptions"=dword:00000002
"ScheduledInstallDay"=dword:00000000
"ScheduledInstallTime"=dword:00000003
"@
$regfile = "$env:windir\Temp\registry.reg"
$reg | Out-File $regfile
Start-Process "regedit.exe" -ArgumentList ("/s", "$regfile") -Wait
rm $regfile
echo "Disable seeding of updates to other computers"
$reg = @"
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\DeliveryOptimization]
"SystemSettingsDownloadMode"=dword:00000003
"@
$regfile = "$env:windir\Temp\registry.reg"
$reg | Out-File $regfile
Start-Process "regedit.exe" -ArgumentList ("/s", "$regfile") -Wait
rm $regfile
From: https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10/blob/master/scripts/optimize-windows-update.ps1
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And now the web is full of random fud, , tools and scripts everyone and their dog is playing with. Eventually leading to **** breaking and nobody being any wiser as to why, blaming Win10 instead. Good going.
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O.o If you read the script, it is clearly setting a few registry entries you could set yourself if you so desired. However, it seems those registry keys no longer have any effect (https://4sysops.com/archives/stop-automatic-updates-in-windows-10-rtm-build-10240/).
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This reminds me of the crap with unsigned drivers back in the day. People found various workarounds for it that MS kept patching out. :no: The group policy setting with the nag message is fine though.
Almost every Windows version has had its issues. I prefer to find workarounds and hacks for them instead of staying with an older version of Windows, which lacks important features going forward (like DX12).
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Windows 7 all the way for me, got too much riding on my current installs on various devices to upgrade/reinstall the OS right now anyway - A good rule I keep for myself is to always wait till at least the first Service Pack before upgrading, and only if neccesary.
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Group policies are a wonderful thing. It turned out messing with registry I did wasn't even needed, everything was in there. I had to mess with them once in Windows 7 as well. They're a bit of an obscure feature, but they work really well.
Really, my biggest gripe about Windows 10 (and 8) is the aesthetics. This "minimalist" design looks like crap, IMO. Aren't no settings to help with that. The start menu is good, but still a far cry from what it used to be in 7. Aesthetics also took a plunge, XP looked nice, 7 could be used to and 8 looked ugly. 10 is only marginally better, with oversized icons and tablet-style "tiles". I'll still stick to it for performance (which is a marked improvement over 7) and DX12, but I hope a way will come up to deal with the fact the OS is just plain ugly-looking.
Similarly, I find Chromium-based browsers ugly as sin. I loathe how every browser, including the once-great Opera, looks like Chrome. They're all ugly and, to some degree, lack important features. Had to install Opera 12 just to get everything I want (paired it up with a slightly paranoid security suite). Even Vivaldi doesn't implement everything, not to mention I found it downright hideous. Why can't things keep looking good like they used to?
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Why can't things keep looking good like they used to?
Thats why. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks)[/snide remark]
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Really, my biggest gripe about Windows 10 (and 8) is the aesthetics. This "minimalist" design looks like crap, IMO.
So true. Am I supposed to feel some aesthetic pleasure from looking at few simple unicolored rectangles? Cause I dont. Vista and 7 were the nicest windowses. And its not just windows, new Android 5 is also ugly, with the exception of some nice transition animations. Cant wait until this minimalist fad is over and UI graphics artists will again have to earn their wage instead of coming up with what looks like a drawing by a five year old.
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You guys have terrible aesthetic tastes and you should feel terrible. I do wish Microsoft listens to you and gives you the option to impair your eyeballs with the horrible aesthetics of yesteryears, if by doing so I'm left unbothered by the results of your grievances.
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"Windows XP looked nice" Jesus F Christ what is this, the Fisher Price generation? Pearls before Swine and all that. ****ing hell. And the comment about how designers are doing "5 year old drawings"? It can go **** itself.
Get better tastes before vomiting your ridiculous judgements.
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Visual design is a preference, every one is different, there isn't a need to insult anyone over it.
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So true. Am I supposed to feel some aesthetic pleasure from looking at few simple unicolored rectangles? Cause I dont. Vista and 7 were the nicest windowses. And its not just windows, new Android 5 is also ugly, with the exception of some nice transition animations. Cant wait until this minimalist fad is over and UI graphics artists will again have to earn their wage instead of coming up with what looks like a drawing by a five year old.
Exactly. Vista and 7 graphics were a bit overdone IMO, though quite easy on the eyes and rather pretty. They did reduce performance though, playing games like KSP in a window was a bit problematic. XP was good. Fast and good-looking, it was likely the best UI out there.
Thats why. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks)[/snide remark]
That's not really this. This is not aversion to change, this is aversion to things that look like they were drawn by a 5 years old. And the latest everything does just that. Everything is boxy and "minimalist", uses a single color for each element and generally looks boring. Add garish and inappropriate contrasts between between those single colors, and you've got an ugly UI.
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"People are stupid, so just change it and tell them it's better. They'll believe us."
- CEOs everywhere.
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I've used a custom skin in every version of Windows going back to 98, with a black/dark gray background and white/green text. I use a 98-style theme like this in XP, and a more modern but similar looking theme in 7 and 8.1 with Classic Shell (the Dark Agility theme, with some extra changes I made). I intend to do the same in 10, so I don't care what it looks like by default.
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I won't be upgrading to it either until it's been around for a while, but I do want DX12 sooner or later.
3. When it was all done, the screen asked me if I was Michael (I am), and I clicked yes. I did not sign in with my Microsoft account. Windows 10 desktop appeared, but it was not my old desktop background or theme, and most of my desktop icons were missing. Going through the personalization menu, I could not find any of my themes I had created before.
Are there any theme patchers available (or necessary) for it? I use a custom theme in Windows 8.1 but need a theme patcher to make it work, which gets occasionally reverted and broken by Windows updates (which is why I never use auto-updates).
http://www.windowsxlive.net/ <- 10 support, check
You can mod it now. I always thought the best-looking was Vista. Piggishly slow, though. I used to use Win XP with Vista Inspirat 2 (http://www.crystalxp.net/galerie/en.id.130-bricopack-vista-inspirat-ultimate-2-dlb-shell-packs.htm) installed -- there was a slight performance hit, but it looked as pretty as Vista (indeed, looked quite similar!) and was 2x faster than the Vista OS.
If you use Vista Inspirat 2, be sure to update RocketDock (http://rocketdock.com/)! The included version was based on a faulty compiler or somesuch. Just copy the Vista Inspirat-themed rocketdock icons to another location, uninstall, install the new version, copy the icons over to the new install.
EDIT: Actually, Royale Noir was a very pretty theme for XP, you can get that here (http://www.askvg.com/download-official-windows-xp-themes-no-uxtheme-patching-required/) (they have Vista / 7 / 8 versions too, I'm sure 10 will be next). Replaced the green / blue with dark almost metallic blue / black... it's green / black by default but I found a blue / balck one somewhere that was much better matching. Ah, here we go, Royale Noir 1.2 Final (http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/514561-finished-royale-noir-theme/), much better:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/oddbasket/NoirDesktop.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/oddbasket/inactive.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/oddbasket/startblack.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/oddbasket/captionbtn.jpg)
That should have been what XP shipped with. :ick: That and an officially patch UXTheme.dll -- locking themes was a huge mistake compared with Win '98 (which could be customized like crazy by default).
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Visual design is a preference, every one is different, there isn't a need to insult anyone over it.
Except when they are wrong? :-) /ducks lol
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An insult is ignorantly saying these designs look like being drawn by a 5 year old. That's more than insulting, it's offensive.
But I do recognize that the general taste displayed here is just in total lack of sync with .... ahhhh ... Let's say mine.
Does remind me of some ridiculous winamp themes back in the day, filled with useless crap just because they could. I guess people just love to torture their eyeballs.
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OS X looks really good :shobon:
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linux looks really good if you're an expert graphics designer and you draw some great interface art
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OS X looks really good :shobon:
get out :p
btw, isnt Apple the one who started this fad for the current generation of stuff?
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I have yet to use custom, unofficial themes in any Windows since WinXP. Am I right in assuming that it still requires patching uxtheme.dll and that it often gets replaced by Windows updates, possibly leading to breakage upon reboot? I remember reading that it is advised to revert to official theme prior to doing any Windows updates. Sounds like more trouble than it is worth.
Still, I was strongly hoping MS would have finally included a proper dark theme in Win10.
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Pfft, I've never had a problem (when running XP SP3). If an update did break it, I'd just run the patcher again. I'm sure with some script-fu, you could even have a startup check and patch of the new uxtheme.dll if it did get replaced.
7 looked good enough (even though Vista on XP or Royale Noir 1.2 looked quite better) that I could tolerate it.
EDIT: I should add, that UXTheme patcher linked above does verify that UXTheme.dll works on startup, and it is compatible with:
This program will patch your theme engine files so you can use any 3rd party visual style on the following operating systems:
Windows XP x86 Editions
Windows XP x64 Editions
Windows Server 2003 x86 and x64 Editions
Windows Vista x86 and x64 Editions
Windows Server 2008 x86 and x64 Editions
Windows 7 x86 and x64 Editions
Windows Server 2008 R2 x86 and x64 Editions
Windows 8 x86 and x64 Editions
Windows Server 2012 x86 and x64 Editions
Windows 8.1 x86 and x64 Editions
Windows Server 2012 R2 x86 and x64 Editions
Windows 10 Technical Preview x86 and x64 Editions
For Windows 8/8.1/10, UXTheme Multi-Patcher comes with WinaeroGlass from winaero.com (http://www.winaero.com/) installed enabling Glass theme support.
If you have any issue related to UxStyle, please file an issue to UxStyle’s GitHub (https://github.com/riverar/uxstyle/issues).
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I have yet to use custom, unofficial themes in any Windows since WinXP. Am I right in assuming that it still requires patching uxtheme.dll and that it often gets replaced by Windows updates, possibly leading to breakage upon reboot? I remember reading that it is advised to revert to official theme prior to doing any Windows updates. Sounds like more trouble than it is worth.
Still, I was strongly hoping MS would have finally included a proper dark theme in Win10.
You couldn't be bothered to Google "Windows 10 dark theme" (http://www.howtogeek.com/222614/how-to-enable-windows-10%E2%80%99s-hidden-dark-theme/)?
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That requires a registry modification, though. Fury might. I might. Quite a few wouldn't, though, so it's worth mentioning.
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That requires a registry modification, though. Fury might. I might. Quite a few wouldn't, though, so it's worth mentioning.
[Side track]
Oooh, the dreaded Windows registry! I mean, you can almost shoot yourself to the foot with it!
Coincidentally, why (in most occasions) did you want to write this in CONFIG.SYS? DOS = HIGH, UMB. And where exactly in the CONFIG.SYS did you want to write it?
And why use of DEVICEHIGH was much preferred over DEVICE, and why did the order of rows matter? And who could forget the joys of SET BLASTER line in AUTOEXEC.BAT!
As a consequence of learning this, we had something like 625 kb free when DOS booted up in Win 3.1 era. Thank you Wing Commander 2 and Falcon 3.0 for teaching me this, back then getting the games to load required a bit of knowledge of massaging CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT! :D Funny thing is, I almost recall the include flag syntax straight from the top of my dome for CONFIG.SYS row that loads EMM386.EXE, and that's something like 18 years ago! The stuff you go through as a boy... :D Especially when you, of course, had to break things in the include flag for the heck of it to see what happens, and had to cover up you were actually re-installing DOS from your dad... who eagerly wanted to do his excel sheets in a hurry!
The only thing causing trouble in Windows registry is the size of it. I never had any trouble modifying anything there. It has always been about finding what you want in it, especially because it can be stored in several locations. Although, I suppose there's a bunch of people who wouldn't want to do something like that at all. I on the other hand, I'm willing to get back some control of my computer hardware from the operating system! I liked to God mode of Windows 7 that unlocked some of the settings that were not as accessible.
[/End side track]
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I have yet to use custom, unofficial themes in any Windows since WinXP. Am I right in assuming that it still requires patching uxtheme.dll and that it often gets replaced by Windows updates, possibly leading to breakage upon reboot? I remember reading that it is advised to revert to official theme prior to doing any Windows updates. Sounds like more trouble than it is worth.
Still, I was strongly hoping MS would have finally included a proper dark theme in Win10.
All that is true, but it's still well worth it to me. The high contrast themes I use look much nicer and are easier on the eyes. I run the updates manually every now and then, setting the default theme along with restore points. Not setting the theme back can render the system unbootable with a few of the large updates.
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You couldn't be bothered to Google "Windows 10 dark theme" (http://www.howtogeek.com/222614/how-to-enable-windows-10%E2%80%99s-hidden-dark-theme/)?
I checked that out months ago when I was still using Technical Preview. It only takes effect on Modern UI, not desktop UI. There are the same high-contrast themes that have been there since WinXP at least, but they disable what's left of GPU acceleration (afaik) and switch to Windows 2000 style basic theme.
So nope, not a real solution.
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I have yet to use custom, unofficial themes in any Windows since WinXP. Am I right in assuming that it still requires patching uxtheme.dll and that it often gets replaced by Windows updates, possibly leading to breakage upon reboot? I remember reading that it is advised to revert to official theme prior to doing any Windows updates. Sounds like more trouble than it is worth.
Still, I was strongly hoping MS would have finally included a proper dark theme in Win10.
All that is true, but it's still well worth it to me. The high contrast themes I use look much nicer and are easier on the eyes. I run the updates manually every now and then, setting the default theme along with restore points. Not setting the theme back can render the system unbootable with a few of the large updates.
... Safe Mode should have still gotten you around that, I would have thought.
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Windows 10 as the last version of Windows? CLOUD BASED MS-OS CONFIRMED.
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Installed W10 onto my main PC and my laptop on this week. Works quite nicely actually (as expected since I had played with the Insider version already for some time).
The only problem I had was that my Creative xTremeMusic stopped working but that was expected since Creative are lazy bums at making drivers.
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FYI PSA all Insiders: Not sure if I mentioned it but updating your Insider Tech Preview build to 10240 RTM gives you 10 Pro, whereas using your free upgrade from 7 / 8.1 will only give you Pro if you had 7 or 8.1 Pro.
So if you were on Tech Preview and used your non-Pro OS to update, and want Pro, grab an ISO of 10166, install, activate, and let that update to 10240 RTM. Then you can clean install and get Pro.
Although I'm unsure if activating your hardware via the free previous OS Upgrade would negate your Tech Preview Pro Upgrade. Hopefully not.
The only problem I had was that my Creative xTremeMusic stopped working but that was expected since Creative are lazy bums at making drivers.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5133841&postcount=3
I had problems myself with my x-fi xtrememusic and Windows 10. When I upgraded to windows 10 and installed Daniel_K's drivers, everything worked fine. I then did a clean installation of Windows 10 (because I'd been planning to so) and installed firewall and antivirus right away before actually installing sound drivers. Mistake! When I installed the Daniel_K sound drivers, I had no sound and the creative audio control panel said I had no supported hardware. I tried different drivers and messed around with it for about 2 hours uninstalling and reinstalling. I finally said **** it and reinstalled Windows 10 again. This time I unplugged the internet, so windows couldn't update anything, and I installed the daniel_k drivers first thing. Now sound is working just fine!
If I want my sound settings to be saved, I still have to shut down my computer completely but at least my sound works. Also I should say that when I initially upgraded to windows 10 and installed daniel_k's drivers I too had problems, similar to yours, with losing sound and settings not saving.
One thing I would recommend is completely uninstalling all creative software and drivers. Unplug from the internet, turn off 3rd party firewall and antivirus and reinstall the daniel_k package again. If the sound works, set your desired settings in the creative audio control panel and shut down (restart won't work) your computer so that they're saved. If none of this works, do what I did and perform a complete reinstallation of windows 10 with the net unplugged. Install the daniel_k package first thing and see if that resolves your problem. I know it's the last thing you probably want to do, but it worked for me.
PS: I too am frustrated with Creative. They had enough time to create drivers for Windows 10 and once again they are late!
EDIT: Also, if you plan to do a re-installation of windows 10, install your video card drivers before connecting to the internet. Windows 10 downloaded Nvidia drivers for me and installed them without my permission! When I restarted my PC I booted into a black screen and could only get back into windows by uninstalling the "sh!t" drivers through safe mode. I also had to disable the net so Windows wouldn't re-install the same drivers. Microsoft once again creating more problems!!
My drivers just worked, not sure why some are borking out. :ick: That sucks. Wonder if it's MS or the OEMs at fault. And why MS doesn't pull the updates for those systems affected.
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The only problem I had was that my Creative xTremeMusic stopped working but that was expected since Creative are lazy bums at making drivers.
Well there's just one more deal breaker. I have the same card and refuse to give it up.
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i'm running an audigy 2 zs on kx drivers just fine on win10, for the record.
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The only problem I had was that my Creative xTremeMusic stopped working but that was expected since Creative are lazy bums at making drivers.
Well there's just one more deal breaker. I have the same card and refuse to give it up.
I have one of those too. You might just need to reinstall the drivers, which are the same for Vista/7/8 anyway. I would be surprised if they don't work on 10.
In fact, they say here (http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=126331) that it's supposed to have official drivers this month.
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Even though it's been in their "legacy" category for years?
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Just in case yall haven't seen it yet...
http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/operating-systems/matthew-wilson/windows-10-can-seek-out-pirated-software/ (http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/operating-systems/matthew-wilson/windows-10-can-seek-out-pirated-software/)
Piracy aside, I find microsoft giving itself permission to do these things to your computer disturbing. When is there going to be a legal crackdown on EULA consumer abuse?
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FFS:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3h5wwg/windows_10_disabling_pirated_software_not_so_fast/
A new story has been making the rounds, regarding Section 7.b. of the Microsoft Services Agreement (https://aka.ms/msa) (emphasis mine):
Sometimes you’ll need software updates to keep using the Services. We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices. You may also be required to update the software to continue using the Services. Such updates are subject to these Terms unless other terms accompany the updates, in which case, those other terms apply. Microsoft isn’t obligated to make any updates available and we don’t guarantee that we will support the version of the system for which you licensed the software.
The original source appears to be an Alphr article (http://www.alphr.com/microsoft/microsoft-windows-10/1001360/microsoft-can-disable-your-pirated-games-and-illegal-hardware) that claims "Redmond can disable any games you’ve pirated or devices you’ve unlawfully hacked" and "Microsoft has practically baked DRM into the core of Windows 10".
What is that? No, put away your sheet of alumin(i)um foil. This is neither new nor a story.
It's not new?
Well, it's right up the top of Microsoft's page:
Published: June 4, 2015
Effective: August 1, 2015
What are all these agreements and terms and ****?
Microsoft Software License Terms (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm): applies to Windows (10) specifically
Microsoft Privacy Statement (https://aka.ms/privacy): applies to basically all Microsoft things
Microsoft Service Agreement (https://aka.ms/msa): applies to listed Microsoft services
Does the Microsoft Service Agreement apply to Windows 10?
The Microsoft Service Agreement does not apply to Windows 10.
It is separated under Section 1.b. — Additional terms of the Microsoft Software License Terms that you agree to during Windows 10 setup:
Some Windows apps provide an access point to, or rely on, online services, and the use of those services is sometimes governed by separate terms and privacy policies, such as the Microsoft Services Agreement at (aka.ms/msa). You can view these terms and policies by looking at the service terms of use or the app’s settings, as applicable. The services may not be available in all regions.
Compare and contrast with the applicable Microsoft Privacy Agreement, mentioned under Section 3 — Privacy; Consent to Use of Data:
Your privacy is important to us. Some of the software features send or receive information when using those features. Many of these features can be switched off in the user interface, or you can choose not to use them. By accepting this agreement and using the software you agree that Microsoft may collect, use, and disclose the information as described in the Microsoft Privacy Statement (aka.ms/privacy), and as may be described in the user interface associated with the software features.
The Microsoft Service Agreement lists the services it applies to under the last section, Covered Services. You will not see Windows (10) there.
These terms ("Terms") cover the use of Microsoft’s consumer products, websites and services listed here (https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/servicesagreement/#serviceslist) (the "Services"). […] You accept these Terms by creating a Microsoft account or Skype account, by using the Services, or by continuing to use the Services after being notified of a change to these Terms.
What does Section 7.b. mean, then?
Here's what I do see under Covered Services:
- Xbox and Windows Games published by Microsoft
- Xbox Live
I think it's pretty clear that Section 7.b. calls out "counterfeit games" and "unauthorized hardware peripheral devices" because it was written in regards to Microsoft's gaming platform and associated IP on Xbox and Windows.
Interestingly enough, the current list doesn't even call out the Windows Store, even though it is discussed in the store-specific Section 14.b.
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Well Creative just released drivers for W10. Too late though, the integrated Realtek I use now is actually pretty good too. Surprisingly so if I'm completely honest.
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So. Did anyone else lose all their desktop shortcuts after the upgrade?
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Weird problem that. IDK, my pc was almost brand new and I hadn't any.
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My brother's laptop upgraded just yesterday, and the wallpaper and icons are all still where they were before.
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I've been trying to upgrade my desktop for several days now...
...darn tire of "something happening".
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I did a clean Win7 install on my desktop, then waited for a while for the upgrade notification. It never appeared so I just used the upgrade tool from Microsoft. All went well. Not sure if I like 10 better than 7 but it is better than 8.
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I've been trying to upgrade my desktop for several days now...
...darn tire of "something happening".
Hmm. Can you check your system logs and find something more specific there?
Start -> Run -> eventvwr
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Used a win10 preview version with spectacular failure due to MSI drivers being repacked 8.1 junk.
However, due to the invasive and Orwellian contract for a terminal, not an OS. I'm sticking with 7. And: https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows/
Cut out that nasty spying ****. Plus, I'm still extremely pissed at trying to shove Win10 snooping capabilities into 7/8, as I just had fun rooting out said updates in several systems, blocking connections in my firewall and shutting down outbound connections I didn't approve of. One thing to go "OMGH! ONE WORLD NSA SPYINGS!" another to cynically realize that Win10 is a subtle jab saying that the user is a MS Data Asset.
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I would like to do my free upgrade but button did not appear. And ive tried troubleshooting. Kinda pissed at Microsoft.
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I would like to do my free upgrade but button did not appear. And ive tried troubleshooting. Kinda pissed at Microsoft.
Why, instead of being pissed, don't you just download the upgrade tool and go ahead with the upgrade? https://www.microsoft.com/de-de/software-download/windows10
(Is the German version of the site, but finding the English equivalent should be easy enough, ... MS always rereoutes me to the local site sorry. ;-))
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Whats the tool called?
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I would like to do my free upgrade but button did not appear. And ive tried troubleshooting. Kinda pissed at Microsoft.
Microsoft has opened the floodgates for Windows 10, making the upgrade available in 190 countries around the globe. If you've already reserved the upgrade on Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 and are yet to see the update, there's an easy fix that allows you to manually initiate the download process.
Before you begin, ensure Windows Update can download and install updates automatically. Not sure how to do that? Here's how:
Turn automatic updating on or off
- Open Windows Update by swiping in from the right edge of the screen (or, if you're using a mouse, pointing to the lower-right corner of the screen and moving the mouse pointer up), tapping or clicking Settings, tapping or clicking Change PC settings, and then tapping or clicking Update and recovery.
- Tap or click Choose how updates get installed.
- Under Important updates, choose the option that you want.
- Under Recommended updates, select the Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates check box.
- Under Microsoft Update, select the Give me updates for other Microsoft products when I update Windows check box, and then tap or click Apply.
Once automatic updates are enabled, launch Command Prompt in Administrator mode and enter the following command: wuauclt.exe/updatenow. That should trigger the Windows 10 download.
How to start a command prompt as an administrator:
- Click Start, click All Programs, and then click Accessories.
- Right-click Command Prompt, and then click Run as administrator.
- If the User Account Control dialog box appears, confirm that the action it displays is what you want, and then click Continue.
If you're having any issues, be sure to hit up Windows Central's forums. This discussion (http://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-general-discussion/369824-*-how-check-force-windows-10-install.html) is dedicated to force updating.
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Whats the tool called?
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/media-creation-tool-install
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OK, so here's my plan now. I'm going to get everything installed the way I want on Win7. I know Win10 has an uninstall option.. but I just don't trust it for some reason. I'll create a full system image and then go to 10. If things don't work after a few weeks of inevitable tweaks and changes to things.. I can just image back to 7 as if it never happened.
I did just install 10 on an older computer and poked around with it a little bit. Not a big fan of the newer UI, but that's probably because I'm just so used to Win7 UI at this point. For you Win10 users out there.. what tips and tricks do I need to learn for Win10 to be able to navigate it like a pro?
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Win + X, then {appropriate key} :
(http://i61.tinypic.com/15807xv.jpg)
I'll post more as I remember.
EDIT: Screen brightness (and battery saving mode) is accessible from the battery icon, but only 25, 50, 75 and 100% -- get to the slider by right-clicking battery and then adjust screen brightness.
Not specifically Win 10, so in quotes: I use Launchy (http://www.launchy.net), and have since XP (started using it on 7 cause the MS one in the start menu has too much of a delay) -- just don't set they key shortcut to something reserved, I know Winkey + Esc works great (and only need one hand to pull it up). I also use the built in Spotlight Wide skin, set it to hide on loss of focus, and decrease the opacity of the window to about 75%. I also install Everything (http://www.voidtools.com) -- those two are the first things I install on any Windows box (ok, Launchy can has Linux & Mac too). Basically, Launchy lets me run any program with a few key strokes (the search is that fast), and Everything lets me find any file I know part of the name of (and search in a folder) just as fast.
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https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/6815/microsoft-will-now-let-windows-10-upgraders-use-windows-7-8-or-8-1-product-key-to-activate
http://reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3oiq50/microsoft_will_now_let_windows_10_upgraders_use/
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https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/6815/microsoft-will-now-let-windows-10-upgraders-use-windows-7-8-or-8-1-product-key-to-activate
http://reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3oiq50/microsoft_will_now_let_windows_10_upgraders_use/
I saw that. Crazy that it took them this long to do it.
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix&ref=yfp (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix&ref=yfp)
I've decided windows 10 will never, EVER touch my computer. If that means I eventually have to find and install one of the old XP or Vista copies I have lying around, so be it. Hell, I might even consider a Mac. I refuse to accept microsoft's attempts to take advantage of the common user, and do their best to force even the savvy ones into accepting their spyware.
Well, except for any automatic downloading it does before I figure out how to stop it I guess. Already killed the GWX process, hopefully that's enough for now. I wonder if there's a Microsoft filter list for PeerBlock yet.
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Not updating to Win 10 won't save you, I'm afraid. :) Better start looking for those XP, since they're going to patch in this "feature" into 7 and 8 too:
http://winaero.com/blog/telemetry-and-data-collection-are-coming-to-windows-7-and-windows-8-too/
That said, well, we're going to see how unstoppable it is... Last time it took me half an hour to knock all this crap out. It seems to be staying disabled. I have better ways of using my bandwidth than uploading diagnostics to them. If MS forces tracking despite all the settings telling it not to, people will soon invent a way to kill it. Windows isn't Linux, but the Pro version still can be extensively fiddled with, and that's not counting 3rd party hacks. So far, it seems that group policy+registry hack fixed it. If it stops working, I guess I'll see if COMODO can be used to firewall every transmission to MS telemetry servers.
I noticed that most complaints come from the "Home" version of Win 10, in which those things might genuinely be hard to turn off. On Pro and Enterprise, it's a matter of knowing were to look. I suppose MS can afford to piss off individual users with tracking and forced updates, but not companies that buy the OS in bulk.
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Sounds like it's almost time to alter the hosts file to block microsoft.com. :p
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They predicted that already, they won't let you do that (the spoilsports). I read about that, apparently you're not the first one to think about it. :) Bloody thing is hardcoded as allowed. But the premise is sound, even though you need a 3rd part firewall for that.
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They predicted that already, they won't let you do that (the spoilsports). I read about that, apparently you're not the first one to think about it. :) Bloody thing is hardcoded as allowed. But the premise is sound, even though you need a 3rd part firewall for that.
Sounds like it's almost time to alter the hosts file to block microsoft.com. :p
Any half-decent quality router will be able to take care of this.
That said, if I can turn off everything but anonymized usage statistics, I probably won't bother.
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"anonymized"
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http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/
by Peter Bright - Aug 12, 2015 11:34pm EDT
Windows 10 uses the Internet a lot (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/windows-10s-privacy-policy-is-the-new-normal/) to support many of its features. The operating system also sports numerous knobs to twiddle (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/windows-10-doesnt-offer-much-privacy-by-default-heres-how-to-fix-it/) that are supposed to disable most of these features and the potentially privacy-compromising connections that go with them.
Unfortunately for privacy advocates, these controls don't appear to be sufficient to completely prevent the operating system from going online and communicating with Microsoft's servers.
For example, even with Cortana and searching the Web from the Start menu disabled, opening Start and typing will send a request to www.bing.com to request a file called threshold.appcache which appears to contain some Cortana information, even though Cortana is disabled. The request for this file appears to contain a random machine ID that persists across reboots.
(http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/get-threshold-appcache-640x387.png)
Shown in the Fiddler debugging Web proxy, the request that the Start menu makes every time you start typing into it or boot your machine.
Some of the traffic is obviously harmless. On connecting to a new network, Windows machines try to request two URLs (www.msftncsi.com/ncsi.txt and ipv6.msftncsi.com/ncsi.txt, the former over IPv4, the latter over IPv6) to ascertain whether a given network is routed to the Internet and if there is a captive portal in the way (NCSI stands for "Network Connection Status Indicator"). These requests are very bare, with no machine IDs or other data sent. If you want to turn even these off there is a way to do so (http://blogs.technet.com/b/networking/archive/2012/12/20/the-network-connection-status-icon.aspx), but the privacy impact is minimal.
Some of the traffic looks harmless but feels like it shouldn't be happening. For example, even with no Live tiles pinned to Start (and hence no obvious need to poll for new tile data), Windows 10 seems to download new tile info from MSN's network from time to time, using unencrypted HTTP to do so. While again the requests contain no identifying information, it's not clear why they're occurring at all, given that they have no corresponding tile.
Other traffic looks a little more troublesome. Windows 10 will periodically send data to a Microsoft server named ssw.live.com. This server seems to be used for OneDrive and some other Microsoft services. Windows 10 seems to transmit information to the server even when OneDrive is disabled and logins are using a local account that isn't connected to a Microsoft Account. The exact nature of the information being sent isn't clear—it appears to be referencing telemetry settings—and again, it's not clear why any data is being sent at all. We disabled telemetry on our test machine using group policies.
(http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/ssw-mystery-640x387.png)
We have no idea what's going on here.
And finally, some traffic seems quite impenetrable. We configured our test virtual machine to use an HTTP and HTTPS proxy (both as a user-level proxy and a system-wide proxy) so that we could more easily monitor its traffic, but Windows 10 seems to make requests to a content delivery network that bypass the proxy.
We've asked Microsoft if there is any way to disable this additional communication or information about what its purpose is. We were told "As part of delivering Windows 10 as a service, updates may be delivered to provide ongoing new features to Bing search, such as new visual layouts, styles and search code. No query or search usage data is sent to Microsoft, in accordance with the customer's chosen privacy settings. This also applies to searching offline for items such as apps, files and settings on the device." This is consistent with what we saw (there is no query or search data transmitted), but also likely to run counter to most people's expectations; if Web searching and Cortana are disabled, we suspect that the inference that most people would make is that searching the Start menu wouldn't hit the Internet at all. But it does. The traffic could be innocuous, but the inclusion of a machine ID gives it a suspicious appearance.
We've argued recently that operating systems will continue to make privacy-functionality trade-offs (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/windows-10s-privacy-policy-is-the-new-normal/). For many users, perhaps even the majority, these trade-offs will be worthwhile; services such as Cortana (Siri, Google Now), cloud syncing of files, passwords, and settings, and many other modern operating system features are all valuable, and many will feel that the loss of privacy is an acceptable price to pay. But the flip side of this is that disabling these services for those who don't want to use them should really disable them. And it's not at all clear that Windows 10 is doing that right now.
EDIT: And I've already posted this in this thread, I believe: What Windows 10's "Privacy Nightmare" Settings Actually Do (http://lifehacker.com/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-1722267229)
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So, I just completed my hardware upgrade and horrendously awful accompanying OS reinstall upgrade (7. Upgrade to 10. Clea install 10. Cry), and I have to say...
I really, REALLY like Windows 10.
Also, my system boots to login screen in about 6 seconds.
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Yup, say what you will about the tracking, but it's fast. Back when I used Windows 7 it took forever to boot, now it's pretty speedy, despite the rig being exactly the same. Not 6 seconds, but definitely less than a minute. I used to start this thing up in the morning and go do something else for a while, then go back, log in, go do something else (or use my Win 8.1 laptop, which I usually hibernate), then proceed with whatever I wanted to do. I still have to break this habit. :)
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So, I just completed my hardware upgrade and horrendously awful accompanying OS reinstall upgrade (7. Upgrade to 10. Clea install 10. Cry), and I have to say...
I really, REALLY like Windows 10.
Also, my system boots to login screen in about 6 seconds.
You know Win 10 can activate using a genuine 7 or 8.1 key now right? :warp:
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So, I just completed my hardware upgrade and horrendously awful accompanying OS reinstall upgrade (7. Upgrade to 10. Clea install 10. Cry), and I have to say...
I really, REALLY like Windows 10.
Also, my system boots to login screen in about 6 seconds.
You know Win 10 can activate using a genuine 7 or 8.1 key now right? :warp:
I did, and when I researched that it was reported as only for systems ALREADY upgraded to a Windows 10 license via the upgrade process, not for brand-new clean installs.
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So, I just completed my hardware upgrade and horrendously awful accompanying OS reinstall upgrade (7. Upgrade to 10. Clea install 10. Cry), and I have to say...
I really, REALLY like Windows 10.
Also, my system boots to login screen in about 6 seconds.
You know Win 10 can activate using a genuine 7 or 8.1 key now right? :warp:
I did, and when I researched that it was reported as only for systems ALREADY upgraded to a Windows 10 license via the upgrade process, not for brand-new clean installs.
“We have received a lot of feedback from Insiders on making it easier to activate Windows 10 on devices that take advantage of the free upgrade offer to genuine Windows by using existing Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 product keys. If you install this build of the Windows 10 Insider Preview on a PC and it doesn’t automatically activate, you can enter the product key from Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 used to activate the prior Windows version on the same device to activate Windows 10 by going to Settings > Update & security > Activation and selecting Change Product Key. If you do a clean install of Windows 10 by booting off the media, you can also enter the product key from prior Windows versions on qualifying devices during setup.”
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Here's what's new with the latest update released today (TH2):
http://lifehacker.com/whats-new-in-windows-10s-big-november-update-1742108755
(I've been running this build for a week or so now, seems as stable as the rest of them)
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“We have received a lot of feedback from Insiders on making it easier to activate Windows 10 on devices that take advantage of the free upgrade offer to genuine Windows by using existing Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 product keys. If you install this build of the Windows 10 Insider Preview on a PC and it doesn’t automatically activate, you can enter the product key from Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 used to activate the prior Windows version on the same device to activate Windows 10 by going to Settings > Update & security > Activation and selecting Change Product Key. If you do a clean install of Windows 10 by booting off the media, you can also enter the product key from prior Windows versions on qualifying devices during setup.”
Yeah, that last sentence was NOT in the article I found. ARGH.
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MS updated their privacy policy, including some explanations for their use of data.
Some pieces on that:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-updates-privacy-statement-addressing-concerns-from-critics/
http://www.maximumpc.com/microsoft-revises-windows-10-privacy-statement-to-ease-spying-concerns/
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"We aren't going to do shady things with your info, honest. We're still allowing ourselves to though, we just totally won't."
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Well, there is an important change. It turns out that one of the most egregious parts is actually confined to OneDrive, which isn't mandatory. In other words, don't keep your pirated CDs/hacking tools/child porn on One Drive. The "content collecting" part is weird, the example makes it seem that it is actually some sort of legalese "duh" statement to the tune of "in order to show your mail to you we must access your mail". It's still awfully broad for that. Other stuff doesn't seem to have changed all that much.
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Yes, I've been using Windows 10 right now. I've used to the desktop after upgrading to Win 10 in early August until late November, when I sucessfully installed Windows 10 on my HP laptop following a BIOS update.
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If anyone's looking for a good place to discuss all things Windows 10, as well as information on privacy / telemetry info, and different tools/scripts to change those settings, head here:
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/forums/54-Windows-10
Similar tools and discussion can be had for the other versions of Windows in their respective sub-forums.
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Meh. I've made my peace with the privacy stuff. Google knows my darkest secrets. Facebook remembers my college days, likely despite the fact that I've long since deleted my Facebook account. Who knows how many ad agencies have basic data on me... why not add Microsoft to the mix?
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It's not just privacy, they have a lot of handy tools and such there, as well as links to untouched MS ISOs etc, etc, etc. Useful resource.
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Regardless of what's already out there, I don't believe what pretty much amounts to corporate spying on consumers is okay and will not implicitly support the practice. If we ever want to have a prayer of stemming the tide of privacy invasion, we have to make it clear to these companies what they are doing is NOT okay, even if it's 'nothing new' as I have seen time and time again, and we aren't going to stand for it. Society has sent pretty much the exact opposite message unfortunately. Exploit us all you want, we'll put up with it and still come back for more.
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As long as MS makes it impossible to back-track the telemetry to a particular user, and you disable such functions as Windows Search etc, and don't use a Microsoft account, don't use a social media account or Google, Yahoo, etc, and use Tor or something, you should still be able to have complete privacy using Windows, I think.
You might say you don't trust MS to not have telemetry traceable, but then how do you trust MS if they weren't supposedly using telemetry ?? It boils down to trust either way.
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I know people will disagree with me here, but I don't think my not using Windows 10 is going to make a difference. (Same I reason I don't vote. The system is **** and I don't have enough cash to make a difference anywhere, but that's a discussion for another topic.) There's enough people who use Windows and don't even know about the Privacy issues that MS can go on even if all us tech informed stopped using Win10. Not only that, but I just need a computer that works and I cannot stand Apple's ecosystem ****. I can't stay on Win7 forever. Like XP, soon enough that OS will be insecure. Yeah, yeah, Linux this and that. Except when it boils down to it, I can install Windows on a machine and be reasonably confident it will work every time. And so will my productivity applications. With minimal tinkering required. That is worth it to me to just allowing yet another entity know about the time I searched the acceptability of wearing sandals and socks.
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I have been using Linux as my main OS almost exclusively for a couple years now and I don't expect problems. it's at least as stable as windows.
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Can I build a machine. Install Linux simply (like as simply as the Win GUI installer), and then install my productivity applications such as the Adobe Suite, 3DS Max, etc and expect them to work every time? No, I cannot. Perhaps this is a special use case, but that's where Windows excels... Special use cases due to it's long-time archive of applications built for the most popular OS platform of the last several decades. It's only recently that OSX is getting similar love that Windows has enjoyed and Linux is barely an after thought.
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There are various graphical installers that make Linux about as easy as installing Windows. Also, you're wrong about Windows excelling at special use cases and Linux not. It is exact opposite actually. Linux provides limitless customization, as does BSD for that matter. Application availability is a separate matter, even if it is not completely unrelated. But as Microsoft cannot control what applications vendors release for their OS, neither can Linux community.
What you really mean, is that application vendors such as Adobe don't see any need to develop all or some of their products to support multiple platforms, or that these platforms do not include Linux. As a matter of fact. Adobe has repeatedly received very large number of requests for them to make Linux-compatible versions of their productivity suites. But nothing ever has come out of it. Adobe's track record of even supporting Flash on Linux is horrid, so given that, Adobe can go **** themselves. Thankfully Flash is on its way out regardless, and I haven't had Flash plugin installed for several months now.
Linux is stuck in a vicious cycle of vendors not being interested in Linux because Linux users do not (supposedly) have enough potential customers. Linux does not see more adoption because of lack of applications like Adobe's productivity suites. Productivity applications aside, Valve now has a chance to stop this vicious cycle where games are concerned. The next few years will tell us whether Valve succeeds. If they do, we might have much better chance to see productivity tools for Linux as we see wider adoption of Linux driven by those who play games on PC. Vulkan cannot come too soon.
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Until something actually changes in terms of program availability for Linux, your argument is a what-if at best. I cannot, today, choose to go with Linux and have an easier time getting a productivity machine up and running with minimal effort.
Windows does excel at special use cases.. even to a fault. See: all the companies still paying MS for Win XP or 3.1 support. They have special programs just for that system. Windows is still easier, even if only because of it's sheer popularity advantage for the length of time it enjoyed that.
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I think special use is being confused with backwards compatibility.
Special use as in, can you run Linux on an ARM based CPU or somesuch.
Backwards compatible, as in, can you keep using old software ad infinitum.
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I was more trying to get at the fact that high numbers of groups/companies/whomever have built specific applications to run on Windows machines for whatever it is that they do. This topic (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=90960.0) comes to mind as an example. Years ago when I worked customer service at a grocery store... the proprietary software that ran the checkout lanes? Yeah, it was built for Windows.
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Gonna have to disagree with you mjn...
Meh. I've made my peace with the privacy stuff. Google knows my darkest secrets. Facebook remembers my college days, likely despite the fact that I've long since deleted my Facebook account. Who knows how many ad agencies have basic data on me... why not add Microsoft to the mix?
First off, two wrongs don't make a right, as it were. And facebook is infamous for not actually deleting accounts, but just making them 'inactive' and hidden.
Just because $PERSON can't keep from gossiping about you doesn't make it OK for others to do the same.
Second, you have a choice to not use facebook and avoid their data mining. Same deal with Google, you have a choice to not use their services. There are browser add-ons like adblock and no-script to prevent the metrics scripts from running when visiting a web site.
There is no choice with Windows 10, unless you pay for the Long Term Software Base Enterprise edition, which isn't easily available compared to home and "pro" for the average person (which I find funny that the only version that can actually turn off the telemetry stuff is the version that isn't 'free').
Yes, Google, Facebook, and their ilk have been doing it for a while. But again, one has the choice to use those things. What choice does one have with Windows?
I was more trying to get at the fact that high numbers of groups/companies/whomever have built specific applications to run on Windows machines for whatever it is that they do. This topic (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=90960.0) comes to mind as an example. Years ago when I worked customer service at a grocery store... the proprietary software that ran the checkout lanes? Yeah, it was built for Windows.
Which has nothing to do with Windows 'excelling' at 'special use' applications, it's more a case of people who can write something in VB are a dime a dozen, so the cost of entry to produce and sell said special purpose software is much less compared to writing the application on and for a proper embedded system.
For the record, I worked retail for five long years as a clerk, and some time as help desk for Kroger, dealing with just about all the different chains Kroger owns, the self check out machines, and the fuel stations, both hardware and software, so I'm not pulling these ideas and theories out of thin air, I do have some experience on the IT/IS side in regards to those systems.
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Special use cases due to it's long-time archive of applications built for the most popular OS platform of the last several decades.
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Popularity != the best
"Add millions of Joes together and you do not get enlightened decisions, you get AOL."
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I never said best. I said easiest to get up and running.
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I never said best. I said easiest to get up and running.
Point.
However, you stated that "Windows does excel at special use cases".
Dict.org defines excel as:
"To surpass others in good qualities, laudable actions, or acquirements; to be distinguished by superiority; as, to excel in mathematics, or classics."
I would argue that it does none of these things, but is most commonly used for these situations as it's cheaper to deploy (see the comment about the VB programmers being cheap) than a proper embedded system.
I also still stand by my earlier points. Google, facebook, telemetry on a web page, etc, are optional and there are ways to avoid the data mining. There is no such option with W10, unless you pay money for a non-commonly available version.
Add in the misleading toggles in the control panel(s) that make it appear that it's not sending any data when it still does, and it's a situation where W10 and Microsoft are deserving of extra scrutiny and criticism IMO.
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rev_posix, thank you. :)
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I know people will disagree with me here, but I don't think my not using Windows 10 is going to make a difference. (Same I reason I don't vote. The system is **** and I don't have enough cash to make a difference anywhere, but that's a discussion for another topic.) There's enough people who use Windows and don't even know about the Privacy issues that MS can go on even if all us tech informed stopped using Win10. Not only that, but I just need a computer that works and I cannot stand Apple's ecosystem ****. I can't stay on Win7 forever. Like XP, soon enough that OS will be insecure. Yeah, yeah, Linux this and that. Except when it boils down to it, I can install Windows on a machine and be reasonably confident it will work every time. And so will my productivity applications. With minimal tinkering required. That is worth it to me to just allowing yet another entity know about the time I searched the acceptability of wearing sandals and socks.
Oh don't worry, I have no delusions that I'm harming microsoft or convincing them not to do this ****. They know people like me exist, but they also know the vast majority of their customers either don't know or don't care in the least, and can use that base to dominate the market and force it on the rest of us. But refusing to cave and not being 'part of the problem' so to speak makes me feel a little bit better.
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And, I have joined the Windows Insider Program to make Windows better, and ensure that computer users won't experience the problems associated with the changes in Windows 10, both hardware and software.