Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Pegasus V on July 28, 2002, 10:53:15 pm
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Has anyone ever assemled a list of the crew compliments of the various FS ships?
Well I have. Mixing canon facts (from ship descriptions), and estimates based on the size of the vessel, I have got a good idea of the crew compliments and max capacity of all the Freespace1/2 ships (excluding Shivan). I've also assembled the fighter/bomber compliment.
Based on this examination, I've got a rough estimate of the amount of civilians that you were trying to save at the end of FreeSpace2. It's just over 8,000. Yes that's right, that's all! There were more people on military ships in the area. Still, it's all good.
Some canon facts: The Hecate has a crew of about 10,000, while the Colossus has a crew of over 30,000. The Hermes escape pod can hold 20 people. You'd need 500 escape pods to completely evacuate a Hecate destroyer, but that would ne downright nutty.
Some non-canon facts: Due to its small size the Vasudan Isis transport can only hold about 30 people. If configured as a personel transport, the Ra escape pod can hold about the same compliment as an Isis. The Terran's Argo transport, on the other hand, can hold up to 550 people. At over 2 kilometres, an Orion destroyer has a crew compliment of 8,000. Occording to Allied Command, if all systems are set on automatic an Orion destroyer can be operated by a skeleton crew of 250 for at least a week. But it would struggle if taken into combat.
-edit- Got rid of the mile thingo... I live in Australia, I only know metric.
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I'd love to get a copy of that myself, but is there any way you can have it as a word .doc format instead of excel?
Not everyone uses spreadsheets.
Thankee.
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It's mentioned that although the escape pods are on board every GTVA vessel. However they do not have enough for everyone to escape on.
Hell, at least in the navy they have life jackets for everyone on a ship. (And with inflatable rafts, a good number of people don't even have to stay in the water.)
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Originally posted by Kitsune
I'd love to get a copy of that myself as a word .doc.
Thankee.
No probs, I'll see what I can do.
Originally posted by Kitsune
It's mentioned that although the escape pods are on board every GTVA vessel. However they do not have enough for everyone to escape on. Hell, at least in the navy they have life jackets for everyone on a ship. (And with inflatable rafts, a good number of people don't even have to stay in the water.)
Captain: :eek2: All hands abandon ship!
Officer: :nervous: Ah, but sir...
Captain: :mad2: I said abandon ship.
* Pop * :doh:
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hey can u count me in too? for the word doc.
email = [email protected]
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
hey can u count me in too? for the word doc.
No worries. Infact, I might just make it into a webpage.
I'll report here when it's up on www.geocities.com/alpha_quadrant_project/concept.html
By the way, I've just started updating the nodemap. The factual details are in the white and the blue is Freespace canon (but I'll have to research for that first). I've temporarily completed the bottom half of the map.
www.geocities.com/alpha_quadrant_project/nodemap.html
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,8606.0.html :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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1 mile is something like 1.7 kilometers, the Orion is 2023 meters in length i believe, that makes it about 1.15 miles long...as for the pods, well...heh
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Originally posted by LtNarol
1 mile is something like 1.7 kilometers, the Orion is 2023 meters in length i believe, that makes it about 1.15 miles long...as for the pods, well...heh
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Pegasus, your node map is missing Epsilon Pegasi. It's there, but not labeled. Should be the other system connecting to Capella.
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Originally posted by StratComm
Pegasus, your node map is missing Epsilon Pegasi. It's there, but not labeled. Should be the other system connecting to Capella.
Thankyou StratComm. I haven't got around to fixing that yet. It is now fixed, along with the nebula links, etc.
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1mi=1.609344km
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While there has been some controversy with the Argo (I believe it would be 550), the Elysium has pretty much been solved now. The Elysium can hold at least 200 people. It was in a mission debreifing, so it is canon.
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That sounds fine, but 200 seems quite high considering the ship's size. (although it is still possible) It might be like the Sobek thing, where the number was severely overstated, but this doesn't look nearly as bad. (our basis for this stuff is 10k for the destroyers, so it can be compared with that)
Also, if you want to know where some of the ship's components are, try taking a closer look at the command briefing animations. (especially the FS1 and ST ones) Several of them contain diagrams that indicate and label the ship components; I was looking at the Hades one yeaterday and found out some interesting stuff about the various parts of the ship.
Hell, at least in the navy they have life jackets for everyone on a ship. (And with inflatable rafts, a good number of people don't even have to stay in the water.)
Yes, but in space you would need to completely load a ship down with escape pods to accomodate everyone. Think of it...a destroyer has reached critical status and is about to go down, and suddenly a huge exodus of 500 escape pods rush out and run all over the place. :D :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
That sounds fine, but 200 seems quite high considering the ship's size. (although it is still possible) It might be like the Sobek thing, where the number was severely overstated, but this doesn't look nearly as bad. (our basis for this stuff is 10k for the destroyers, so it can be compared with that)
I does seem overstated doesn't it? Both the Elysiums and the Sobeks. I originally estimated the Elysium's maximum capacity would be about 120. And the Sobek's to be about 900, certainly not 6,000.
I was looking at the Hades one yeaterday and found out some interesting stuff about the various parts of the ship.
Yeah? Like what?
Yes, but in space you would need to completely load a ship down with escape pods to accomodate everyone. Think of it...a destroyer has reached critical status and is about to go down, and suddenly a huge exodus of 500 escape pods rush out and run all over the place.
I didn't want to mention Star Trek in here, but the Enterprise-E is covered with escape pods. They certainly have enough for the entire crew (I think the standard crew count is 1,000). Watch Star Trek III: First Contact - They have a huge exodus of escape pods that run all over the place. :nod:
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Orion = 10,000 (SM1-10 - "Don't be absurd Koth! You are sacrificing 10 thousand lives for nothing")
;)
Yeah, I remember this, too. Pegasus, the crew complement of an Orion is 10,000, not 8,000. When the Colossus blasts Koth's Orion flagship in the original campaign, the above statement gets said. So it is canon.
Just my two cents. :)
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With the ongoing discussion concerning ship sizes, I just thought I'd throw a quick, and relatively dirty, something together to remind people of the size comparisons between people and ships:
Click for image (http://kazashi.mos.net.au/images/misc/orion_size_comparison.jpg)
Note that the ship is to scale, a full 2km+ long. That bunch of squares next to it is 10,000 people (average height of 1.8m, 100 people per little square standing about 85cm apart left-right, 1.6m front-back) also to scale. Now imagine them spread out throughout the Orion, even accounting for void spaces....
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Originally posted by Pegasus V
I didn't want to mention Star Trek in here, but the Enterprise-E is covered with escape pods. They certainly have enough for the entire crew (I think the standard crew count is 1,000). Watch Star Trek III: First Contact - They have a huge exodus of escape pods that run all over the place. :nod:
I counted them, and got atleast 42, but they can have so many cause they form part of the outer hull on the dish section...
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Originally posted by CP5670
Yes, but in space you would need to completely load a ship down with escape pods to accomodate everyone. Think of it...a destroyer has reached critical status and is about to go down, and suddenly a huge exodus of 500 escape pods rush out and run all over the place. :D :D
...well, I hope you don't mind defending some 60 pods I have set up to show up when the H.....a certain ship in my campaign goes down ;)
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Originally posted by Kazashi
With the ongoing discussion concerning ship sizes, I just thought I'd throw a quick, and relatively dirty, something together to remind people of the size comparisons between people and ships:
Click for image (http://kazashi.mos.net.au/images/misc/orion_size_comparison.jpg)
Note that the ship is to scale, a full 2km+ long. That bunch of squares next to it is 10,000 people (average height of 1.8m, 100 people per little square standing about 85cm apart left-right, 1.6m front-back) also to scale. Now imagine them spread out throughout the Orion, even accounting for void spaces....
Well they say that a picture is worth a thousend words. Wish you`d chosen 6,000 and a deimos though :) A deimos would be about 1/3 the size and have just over 1/2 the people on that image.
Of course this simple explaination doesn`t take into account the space taken up by crew quarters, mess halls etc but it does show that 8,000 people wcould fit onto an Orion :)
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That is an interesting image. Although it should also be kept in mind that only about 10-15% of the ship's total volume is delegated to crew spaces. (recall the colossus cutscene)
Yeah? Like what?
Let's see:
Command Center
ATAK B04 Defense Cannon
Main Research and Life Facilities
RTECH-0982 Xenon-Zarium Proto Engines
Advanced Info-R Array
ZCore Stabilization System
SH-TECH ETC191
X-Z Tech Combustion Chambers
Direction Output Conductor
Verification DB Controls
EM Lock Supports
Tri-Van Outtake Valves
The animation gives the locations of all these things. Lots of information in these; I think I might compile a list of these components. ;)
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Originally posted by karajorma
Wish you`d chosen 6,000 and a deimos though :)
I did this just for you :)
Deimos size comparison (http://kazashi.mos.net.au/images/misc/deimos_size_comparison.jpg) with 6,000 people. A much tighter fit, but if you can imagine them squashed in somewhat submarine conditions, then it could be done.
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Originally posted by karajorma
A deimos would be about 1/3 the size and have just over 1/2 the people on that image.
It may be 1/3 the length, but think about volume, which is the important bit. Think about the collosus cut scene. It said the collosus could fit 20 Lucifer class ships within its hull. But the collosus is just 3.3 (ish) times longer than the lucifer. So volume is important.
A diemos, about 1/3 the length of an orion, 1/3 as wide, 1/3 as tall, gives you 1/27 the volume. Where this puts the crew compliment of a diemos i dont know. It doesnt have a fighter bay, so would have more space combared to an orion of the same size, but it wouldnt need crew to support the fighter bay. Also i thought a diemos had newer armour platting than an orion which may change the volume up or down.
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I am just weird or is the Orion in the size comparision different. It looks like the hangar is on the wrong side. Thats kind of cool, if it is, and deserves to be put in the game, Think Orion A, Orion B
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I think if you convert it with Cob2Pof the entire model somehow gets mirrored. :p
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I love those comparison images! Great work!
I was doing some research yesterday on Australian warships. Our frigate class is larger than a destroyer, however, the destroyer holds a larger crew. Perhaps on ships that are designed for war (like Corvettes in FS2, they are especially designed for war), they have a bigger crew compliment. The destroyers from FS are multi-role vessels. They can do a variety of tasks from surveilance and scientific research to offensive attacks and blockades. The fact that they're not 100% designed for war, gives them a smaller crew capacity compared to a corvette (10,000-6,000, but an Orion is several times larger than a Sobek). This is just my reasoning in my head to explain these figures.
Hey Kazashi, how long and how much effort did it take you to make those images? Do you think you could do a comparison with all the ships? Two ship I would love to see comparisons with is the Elysium and the Argo.
Cheers.
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6000 in a corvette still seems like sort of a stretch to me. When I saw the deimos size thing, I got the picture in my head of (I know I'll get laughed at to no end here for this) a scene in an episode of SpongeBob Squarepants. [Sort of] the scene:
http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/spongebobscene.html
Yeah, go ahead. Laugh. If it isn't obvious, the fish are anchovies. I think 6000 people in a Deimos would look roughly like that.
I know it is mentioned somewhere (...6000 Vasudans gave their lives...) for the Sobek, but it isn't like FS2 doesn't have the odd inconsistancy. I think the Terran ships may have better automation systems in them, allowing them to operate with a smaller crew, but 1000-2000 in a Deimos seems about right given its size. 6000 people seems like it'd be a really tight squeeze.
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Originally posted by StratComm
6000 people seems like it'd be a really tight squeeze.
Indeed. I'd think 2000 would be pushing to too.:bump: My original estimates for the corvettes was about 900-1000.
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When Koth's ship rams the colossus, does not the captain of the colossus talk about 1200 decks?!? That just seems a bit odd to me. Surely it cant have that many.
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Originally posted by Petrarch of th VBB
When Koth's ship rams the colossus, does not the captain of the colossus talk about 1200 decks?!? That just seems a bit odd to me. Surely, it cant have that many.
The Colossus is said to be able to contain 12 Lucifers in its hull (according to the cutscene). 1200 decks does seem like a stretch, but I think it might be possible.
And don't call me Shirley. :D
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
And don't call me Shirley. :D
Truly great film,
"And in lighter news, hundred of capitalists will die...."
:D
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on a US navy submarine, the bunk is only yours half the time. You get it for 12 hours, and the other guy gets it for the other 12. I would hope that this would change by the year 2300, but when it comes down to it doesn't have to. This could greatly increase the number of personnel on a ship, let's just hope that your bunk mate isn't a total dirtball, and takes a shower when he gets done with work.
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Check out my ship stats page I've finally composed:
http://www.geocities.com/alpha_quadrant_project/shipstats.html
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When I was in I never recalled running into any dirtballs like that who wouldn't shower.
Because really, if someone did there'd be a protest and the guy hauled off into the shower to clean himself.
Cause there were 45 people in my berthing and we were damned if it was going to smell.
(Was GSM, sitting in an engine room for 4-6 hours a day that at 110+ degrees was horrible, I showered like twice a day on average, most times three.)
But anyways, you've got to take into account the full capacity of a ship fully staffed, what it could run at... Then you think about how many marines they carry, do they support flag staff, extra passengers possible, pilots, hangar crew/flight ops, spacecraft support vehicles and crew... There are a lot that separate from the normal "ship's crew" down to "who runs the ship?" and "who's extra that do other related stuff?"
2,000 total bodies on a Deimos makes sense to me.
A crew of say, 1,400 on average, up to 1,600 standard with the rest being extra bodies, marines for assault purposes or for shipboard defences in case of a raid to capture the ship (I doubt ALL NTF ships were simply 'defected crew'.) Can support a flag staff, so that could be up to 100 or so just to guard and follow and assist a fleet admiral who's there over the captain...
Gah, rambling again...
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Huh??? :confused:
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Pegasus, make that ship list as a downloadable doc file and I'll love you forever. :D
BTW, are you sure that the GTM Hippocrates can hold only 770 passengers? The database entry says that it is capable of giving medical aid "to thousands of patients" and is also capable of moving large numbers of refugees.
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
BTW, are you sure that the GTM Hippocrates can hold only 770 passengers? The database entry says that it is capable of giving medical aid "to thousands of patients" and is also capable of moving large numbers of refugees.
Oh yeah. I forgot about that thanks for pointing it out. But it is very small to house thousands of patients, that's probably why I set it at 770. Perhaps I can justify it by saying it can give medical aid to thousands of patients every day. That way it would give medical aid to 500 people at a time, but during the day it could aid thousands of patients. Meh. (by the way, that's my first meh)
Originally posted by Su-tehp
Pegasus, make that ship list as a downloadable doc file and I'll love you forever. :D
I'll see what I can do...
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
Pegasus, make that ship list as a downloadable doc file and I'll love you forever. :D
Here you go Su-tehp: ShipStats Word Document (www.geocities.com/alpha_quadrant_project/shipstats.doc)
If the link doesn't work, just copy and paste it into the address bar
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Ok, I got it. I'll take a look-see on this and I'll let you know if there are any issues to be resolved. :)
Oh, if you can make another ship comparison picture, this time of the GTM Hippocrates, that would be great. I'm trying to figure out if 2000-3000 people could fit onto the Hippocrates (I'm thinking it would be a tight fit at best).
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I cant get it to work, even if I paste it into the address bar.
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Originally posted by Petrarch of th VBB
I cant get it to work, even if I paste it into the address bar.
The web page or the .doc? The web page might not work without Excel.
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Originally posted by Pegasus V
Hey Kazashi, how long and how much effort did it take you to make those images? Do you think you could do a comparison with all the ships? Two ship I would love to see comparisons with is the Elysium and the Argo.
Cheers.
Sorry about the delay, I was down the coast for a few days.
Actually I didn't really put much time or effort into the images, just a couple of minutes with rough model conversions and placing. I want to take the time to get some textured models converted (again), and to do a comparison with all the ships - including Vasudan size comparisons - plus a few "real world" examples, specifically an aircraft carrier and submarine, to show how people really can be packed into such spaces.
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Originally posted by Kazashi
I want to take the time ... to do a comparison with all the ships
I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the results. :yes:
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It's mentioned that although the escape pods are on board every GTVA vessel. However they do not have enough for everyone to escape on.
The GTEP hermes was first fielded 12 years before 2335 thanks to the destruction of the GTD Goliath. (assumption: all hands lost) In FS2 it is mentioned in the tech description that they are not intended for full crew evacuations.
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Originally posted by Ace
... they are not intended for full crew evacuations.
Indeed.