Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Riven on July 29, 2002, 07:42:49 am
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Where can i find info on all the official FS2 systems. Such as number of planets and stars and stuff. FSURP seems dead so where else should i look?
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I believe there is some potentially helpful info in this forum. Do a search for "Stars of Freespace", that thread had information about the canonical star systems.
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There isn't too much hardcore information.
Aldebarran is a Vasudan stronghold of sorts. Beta Aquilae is the capital. Vega, Deneb and Sirius are divied up between Terran and Vasudan colonies (and mixes of course).
BWO side, I've tried to include a little more detail into planets and locations.
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how about we work on a system map with details on each system hyperlinked. It would be really useful for mission designers and we could include key battles that have happened and stuff. This is what i would have hoped for in FSURP but like i said, that appears to have died. Infact, what did happen to it? So if you wana help with the system project (IceFire maybe;7 because you seem to be the authority on this), then PM me.
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I might be able to chip in a bit of information as well. ;) (how about using this (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/procyon/images/starmap.gif) for the web interface? ;7) On a side note, are there any plans to resurrect the FSURP? I have a bunch of information that could go in there. (like this (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/procyon/fs2csd.rtf) :D)
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i was actually planning on using my star map (see modding forum). And each system could be a link to a page about it.
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a very good place for... just about everything is Fredzone (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/fredzone)
It's got a lot of stuff about systems, and forces etc. Very good if you like being canonical.
[edit] You might also want to try this (http://http://pub11.ezboard.com/fjtofrm11.showMessage?topicID=23.topic)
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Why is it that in Freespace 1 the breifings make it seem that there are many more systems in the GTA than in your map of the GTVA.
In FS Beta Aquilaie is a only a small outpost in the outer colonies. Admiral Shima states in a briefing near the end of the game (which is after the mission A Failiure to Communicate), that the Shivans have cornered the Terran forces to their nine core systems.
Also, during missions in Freespace 1, jump nodes are not the end of a subpace tunnel between systems. They give ships the abillity to go to a number of systems. Admiral Wolf states in a briefings that "There are dozens of systems of the Antares node". Your map shows that there are only 4 possible destinations from the Antares nodes.
In the breifing for the mission to capture the SC Tyrannis, they say that they are not sure what system the Tyrannis will jump to they only know that there is one jump node in the Ikeya system. They do not say that the Tyrannis will jump to Ribos (Which is the only system you can jump to according to your map).
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Originally posted by GrandAdmiralAbaht
Also, during missions in Freespace 1, jump nodes are not the end of a subpace tunnel between systems. They give ships the abillity to go to a number of systems. Admiral Wolf states in a briefings that "There are dozens of systems of the Antares node". Your map shows that there are only 4 possible destinations from the Antares nodes.
In the breifing for the mission to capture the SC Tyrannis, they say that they are not sure what system the Tyrannis will jump to they only know that there is one jump node in the Ikeya system. They do not say that the Tyrannis will jump to Ribos (Which is the only system you can jump to according to your map).
Um... I think dozen's of systems 'off' antares means leading from antares (Beta Aquilae, Ribos, et al). Also, the mission where you defend several nodes sort of indicates that nodes are between 2 points only, otherwise they wouldn't have so many of 'em there.
Everything in the way FS2 plays (giving this precedence,as it's the newest one) indicates jump nodes are between 2 points - i.e. the tracking of hostiles ships. also the actual subspace missions.
From techroom;
"n simple terms, subspace is an n-dimensional tunnel between one point in the universe and another. A vessel can travel through this tunnel in a matter of minutes, making a journey that might otherwise take decades or even centuries at light speed."
I sincerely doubt that a node can 'switch' destinations - the tech description describes crafts 'entering' a stable subspace tunnel, rather than controlling it. FS2 travel seems to be more passive - opening and taking a shortcut - rather than actually controlling where to go.
Gravity is obviously a factor, too....possibly easing the creation of the vortex. From the descriptions, intra system jumps almost seem to enter one of a large number of stable subspace tunnels, which only exist within a system. This could explain why ships sometimes jump out a bit from their target. It also eases mission balancing, because you'd have to be at a certain point to actually jump out - hence preventing badly damaged ships from just running away.
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Originally posted by GrandAdmiralAbaht
In the breifing for the mission to capture the SC Tyrannis, they say that they are not sure what system the Tyrannis will jump to they only know that there is one jump node in the Ikeya system. They do not say that the Tyrannis will jump to Ribos (Which is the only system you can jump to according to your map).
Notice the map doesn`t have the node the shivans used to enter the Ross 128 system either? You know why? Cause it's an unstable one.
That's what the briefing was on about too. The shivans have managed to enter the GTA systems through a route that command had no idea existed. For all the GTA knew at that point the shivans might have been able to take another way out of the Ikeya system too.
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I was once compiling my own FSURP, but when I heard of the real FSURP, I stopped. I should resurect my own one. I'm in the middle of finally updating my own nodemap (www.geocities.com/alpha_quadrant_project/nodemap.html), and there's some helpful info here that I'll use. Thanks.
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I was once compiling my own FSURP, but when I heard of the real FSURP, I stopped. I should resurect my own one. I'm in the middle of finally updating my own nodemap, and there's some helpful info here that I'll use. Thanks.
That looks suspisously like the official FS node map. But the rest of yor site is good so i'll let you off:p
yeah this is all what i need, really good stuff everyone, keep it coming. I'm going to try and contact FSURP and attempt to lend a hand/resurect it. Help would be appreciated.:nod:
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If you do this, do it right - ie. use the :v: nodemap. It might not look as pretty as some of the others, but it's canon, and so should be given precedence.
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If you do this, do it right - ie. use the nodemap. It might not look as pretty as some of the others, but it's canon, and so should be given precedence.
Well my map was basically traced over to V one
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Originally posted by Riven
That looks suspisously like the official FS node map. But the rest of yor site is good so i'll let you off:p
yeah this is all what i need, really good stuff everyone, keep it coming. I'm going to try and contact FSURP and attempt to lend a hand/resurect it. Help would be appreciated.:nod:
I never said it wasn't! Thanks for your kind comments. I'll start hacking into missions and stuff tonight if I get time to get all the special info needed for this project, to help out...
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Here's a question that I'll bet no one can answer: do jump nodes orbit stars like a planet would, or do they sit static in deep space?
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Originally posted by StratComm
Here's a question that I'll bet no one can answer: do jump nodes orbit stars like a planet would, or do they sit static in deep space?
Well...do stars rotate? Because AFAIK the primary stabilising factor for a node is gravity.
I think they MUST be static, in order for stable and unstable nodes to be distinguished from.....
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Stars do rotate. Quite quickly in fact in some cases. Doubt that it would have much of an effect on the nodes since the centre of mass of the star remains static.
That said the nodes in my games do move sometimes. Mainly as a plot device :)
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The star's center of mass will remain constant, but the center of mass for the planets will move, and this will inevitably have some effect on the nodes. And besides, what if a node sat on a planet's orbit; once in that planet's year the node would be closed, and any ship emerging through it would, well, you can imagine...
I actually think that they should orbit their stars, since their presence anywhere near a planet would otherwise have devestating effects on the node's stability.
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nodes orbit stars/planets, because the location of the Sol jump node is always being referred to being somewhere near the earth (getting this off the head, so correct me if necessary), that wouldn't be possible if the node didn't rotate. Also Knossos devices orbit planets, so must the nodes they are stabilizing.
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Remember that a node doesn't exist only in normal space. You'd also have to account for subspace behaviour when you judge whether it orbits a star or not. It could very well be anchored in place due to subspace not sharing the same methodology of orbits.
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what would you prefer on a system map site. Very high detail map thats takes ages to load, medium, or low and quick?
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http://fredzone.unitedgamerscoalition.com/
Fredzone covers everything Fred 2 including the Universe and maps.
As for the system maps, they are around. I took them down from FZ because most FS2 sites have them already
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I did make a list of GTVA Terran fleets and Vasudan battle groups and their base systems (namely 13th Vasudan Battle Group based in Deneb, 5th Terran fleet based in Beta Aquilae, and so on). It was all located at FRED Zone, but it seems to have disappeared... :wtf:
In any case, I'll post it here now, since I'm the only one at FRED Zone with access to this list. Here you go (Watch out, this is going to be LONG!):
GTVA Terran Fleet Organization Notes:
For fleets and battle groups that have the word "CONFIRMED" next to them, this means I have found a specific reference to that particular fleet and its base system in the FS1 and FS2 games from either a command briefing, the technical database, or a debriefing comment. The rest of the fleets and battle groups I had to extrapolate and do some guess work. I deduced that there were 26 GTVA battle groups from looking at the technical database entry for the GTM Hornet missile, which said that 2.6 million+ Hornet missiles had been stockpiled after the Great War and they were evenly distributed to all of the GTVA battle groups/fleets with each battle group and fleet getting at least 100,000 Hornets each. So 2.6 million divided by 100,000 = 26 fleets/battle groups. I knew that there were at least 12 Terran fleets because of the reference to the 12th Fleet at Ross 128 that I found in a debriefing and the tech database mentions the 13th Battle Group at Deneb in the description for the GVD Hatshepsut. So I reasoned that there were 13 Terran fleets and 13 Vasudan battle groups.
Determining which planets were Vasudan and which were Terran was a little tougher, but from all the specific references I found concerning which planets belonged to whom, I couldn’t escape from the conclusion that only Alpha Centauri, Altair, Vasuda Prime, Aldebaran, and Deneb were Vasudan planets. ALL the other planets in the vicinity of Vasuda Prime had specific references that they were Terran planets, NOT Vasudan. In order to square this with my conclusion that there were 13 Terran fleets and 13 Vasudan battle groups, I came to the conclusion that, in order to help cement the mutual trust and cooperation that arose from fighting the Shivans, the Vasudans would base many of their battle groups in Terran systems and protect them for the Terrans, who were already stretched thin guarding the rest of their systems. BETAC and the formulation of the GTVA no doubt helped cement this gesture of trust and friendship.
1st Fleet: Based at Terra (Cut off from GTA/GTVA when SD Lucifer exploded)
2nd Fleet: Based at Delta Serpentis (the Terran capital since contact with Earth was lost)
3rd Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Capella
4th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Vega
5th Fleet: Based at Beta Aquilae (this system is the capital of the entire GTVA)
6th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Epsilon Pegasi
7th Fleet: Based at Polaris
8th Fleet: Based at Regulus
9th Fleet: Based at Sirius
10th Fleet: Based at Laramis
11th Fleet: Based at Luyten 726-BA
12th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Wolf 359 (a crap assignment for Terrans)
13th Fleet: Based at Ross 128 (the REALLY Terran crap assignment)
The 4th Fleet was based at Vega during the Great War and was still based at Vega during FS2 (I found specific in-game references to both), so I’m guessing the Terrans never re-organized the fleet deployments. The Terrans in the GTVA military are no doubt hoping that the 1st Fleet still exists and will rejoin the GTVA once contact is restored. This is why Earth still has the 1st Fleet based there; it’s also a morale issue. Acknowledging the loss of the 1st Fleet (the cream of the crop of the Terran military) would be a huge blow to morale, so it’s fleet designation was never changed. (This is ALL guesswork here, but I think it’s a good guess.)
NTF Defection notes: (If you want to verify this information, most of it is all in the technical database under the topics "Reconstruction" and "Neo-Terran Front". I’ve extrapolated the rest.)
The Reconstruction period after the Great War was a difficult time for the Terran and Vasudan peoples. The economy of both nations was in a shambles and the GTA even collapsed into several regional blocs. With the rise of Khonsu II, however, the Vasudans fared much better in the Reconstruction than the Terrans did, even including the fact that the Vasudans’ homeworld of Vasuda Prime had been obliterated by the SD Lucifer. The Vasudans’ economic recovery was nothing short of miraculous, while many of the Terran planets (Polaris, Regulus and Sirius in particular) had a much more difficult time recovering from the aftermath of the Great War. This engendered bitterness and resentment in many Terrans, particularly those of the "Lost Generation", those Terrans who grew up during the Reconstruction. Because of this resentment and bitterness, Bosch was able to quietly recruit many enthusiastic followers in the 6th Fleet (which he commanded at the time) to secretly join him and the NTF shortly before the start of the NTF Rebellion.
Once Bosch convinced parts of the 6th Fleet to defect to the NTF, he used these fleet assets to head from Epsilon Pegasi to Polaris and overthrow the government there. The 7th Fleet, based at Polaris, also decided to defect to the NTF once Bosch had made his overtures to them. The GTVA 6th Fleet was still in existence (I found specific references to the 6th Fleet in the Epsilon Pegasi missions in the single campaign; also, Epsilon Pegasi is a contested system, not a fully NTF-controlled system) so presumably NOT ALL of the 6th Fleet defected to the NTF, just a large enough amount to take Polaris with the 7th Fleet’s assistance.
The 8th and 9th Fleets defected to the NTF a few weeks after Bosch staged his revolt in Polaris as Bosch managed to make inroads into Regulus and Sirius. While a few units of these fleets MAY have stayed loyal to the GTVA, they presumably were overwhelmed by the units that defected to the NTF. This helps explains how Bosch was able to secure these three systems so quickly. Once Bosch had these three systems under his control, he had a significant resource base from which to conduct his secret agenda of contacting the Shivans while his subordinates conducted their campaign of conquest and genocide against the Vasudans.
With Polaris, Regulus and Sirius firmly in the hands of the NTF, it is safe to say that the 7th, 8th and 9th Fleets (those units that hadn't defected to the NTF) were effectively obliterated (or perhaps they fled to other Terran systems and were re-integrated into those fleets), while the units that did defect to the NTF became the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Fleets of the Neo-Terran Front. As a result, the 7th, 8th and 9th Fleets of the GTVA effectively ceased to exist.
Neo-Terran Front Fleet Organization Notes:
Neo-Terran 1st Fleet: Based at Polaris
Neo-Terran 2nd Fleet: Based at Regulus
Neo-Terran 3rd Fleet: Based at Sirius
I’ve set up the NTF fleets this way because of the "domino effect" that was referred to in the Neo-Terran Front" entry in the tech database. Polaris was the first to fall to the NTF. The next system on the jump node map was Regulus, which lay between Polaris and Sirius. For there to be a domino effect, the things have to fall in order. Thus, I reasoned that since Regulus fell before Sirius, Regulus should be the base of the 2nd Neo-Terran Fleet and Sirius should be the base of the 3rd Neo-Terran Fleet.
Once the NTF was able to push into Alpha Centauri, Deneb and Epsilon Pegasi, it’s reasonable to assume that Bosch had several months to use the manufacturing facilities on Polaris, Regulus and Sirius to churn out more ships for the NTF fleets. As for the people to crew these ships, Bosch had no shortage of potential recruits or conscripts. Polaris, Regulus and Sirius were heavily populated Terran planets with millions, maybe even billions, of disaffected and fanatical members of the "Lost Generation."
With this resource base, I think it is reasonable to say that Bosch created new NTF fleets to manage the campaigns in Alpha Centauri, Deneb and Epsilon Pegasi. And so….
Neo-Terran 4th Fleet: Based at Deneb
Neo-Terran 5th Fleet: Based at Alpha Centauri
Neo-Terran 6th Fleet: Based at Epsilon Pegasi
This leads to the question of whether NTF fleet Read admiral Koth and the NTD Repulse were stationed in the 6th Fleet or not. I THINK it could be the Neo-Terran 6th Fleet, but don't quote me on that just yet.
Some of you will notice that I put the NTF 6th Fleet in Epsilon Pegasi. You might also have noticed that the GTVA also has its 6th Fleet in Epsilon Pegasi. Coincidence? Or did I do it deliberately?
Hmmm... What do you guys think? ;):lol::drevil:
GTVA Vasudan Battle Group Organization Notes:
List of Vasudan planets:
1st Battle Group: Aldebaran (it’s the Vasudan capital since Vasuda Prime was obliterated)
2nd Battle Group: Vasuda (the REALLY crap assignment for Vasudans, for obvious reasons)
3rd Battle Group: Altair
11th Battle Group: Alpha Centauri (SEMI-CONFIRMED; it was hinted in-game but not said specifically that the 11th was stationed at Alpha Centauri)
13th Battle Group (CONFIRMED): Based at Deneb
List of Terran planets but guarded by Vasudan Battle Groups:
4th Battle Group: Ikeya
5th Battle Group: Ribos
6th Battle Group: Adhara
7th Battle Group: Antares
8th Battle Group: Beta Cygni
9th Battle Group: Betelgeuse
10th Battle Group: Procyon A
12th Battle Group: Bernard’s Star (a Vasudan @#%$ assignment because it’s so far from Vasudan territory)
Keep in mind, this is a fleet organization that exists from the formulation of BETAC in 2358 and into the events of FS2. (I’m not even going to try to figure out how the fleets were organized in FS1; there are just too many inconsistencies to try.) If campaign designers wish to refer to this list for their campaigns that take place after FS2, please feel free to do so. You don’t have to, of course, but I wouldn’t mind in the least if you did. :)
As always, if there are any questions, feel free to reply.
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
I did make a list of GTVA Terran fleets and Vasudan battle groups and their base systems (namely 13th Vasudan Battle Group based in Deneb, 5th Terran fleet based in Beta Aquilae, and so on). It was all located at FRED Zone, but it seems to have disappeared... :wtf:
In any case, I'll post it here now, since I'm the only one at FRED Zone with access to this list. Here you go (Watch out, this is going to be LONG!):
a lot of stuff, I already know by heart
Su-tehp, it still exists, infact I posted a link to it earlier in this thread
[edit] You might also want to try
this (http://pub11.ezboard.com/fjtofrm11.showMessage?topicID=23.topic)
Please check the replies of the previous posts. :)
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'd posted links to it in my FAQ. Still it's good to see it here too. Maybe now more people will see that it exists :)
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In one FS1 mission, the Galatea must reach Beta Cygni as quickly as possible. From Antares they take a node through an asteroid field because it is the quickest and most direct route BUT the Admiral also states that they could take a different route through other systems to reach Beta Cygni, it would just take more time.
This clearly indicates that either, there is more than one node from Antares to Beta Cygni or, that there is multiple paths to reach the destination, namely another jump node that will take them there.
In a different mission, the Galatea jumps into the Antares system through a jump noe, recalculates its' jump and then uses the same node to go to Beat Aquilaie!:confused:
EXPLAIN THAT!!
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well, they changed a lot of stuff in FS2 to make the storyline more coherent (is that the word for it?). It's just one of the things we weren't supposed to notice.
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Like there being three nodes leading to Earth in FS1 but only one broken one in FS2.
Since we're mostly making missions in FS2 that's what we have to take as canon :)
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http://fredzone.unitedgamerscoalition.com
new link to fredzone, freespace watch looks down or dead.
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Aha, I see the problem now! There are TWO FREDZone forums running around! :wtf:
I think I've been away at law school for too long...
*imitates Han Solo's voice* "I'm out of it for a little while and everybody gets delusions of forum grandeur!" :sigh:
Still, as long as everyone gets the info they need, that's fine.
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There are two forums, but the core left the Ezboard and went to the new PHPBB's, since its add free.
Maybe i shld start copying and pasting old threads from the EZboard over to FZ's new board.
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Yah, good idea, Lone. I was getting really confused when I looked in the new forum and didn't see anything of my old stuff in the Guidelines forum.
Thanks for getting on top of this (sexual metaphor NOT intended). :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
For all the GTA knew at that point the shivans might have been able to take another way out of the Ikeya system too.
Just check Rise Of GCA System map ;7