Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: CT27 on December 05, 2015, 01:10:01 pm
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How do you think Admiral Petrarch will be remembered by the GTVA and what kind of legacy will he leave behind? Will the soldiers of the Aquitaine miss him?
During FS2, I remember pilots would sometimes critique command as a whole, but not Admiral Petrarch specifically. So, I'm guessing Aquitaine's people didn't mind him as CO.
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Petrarch's monologue in the ending cutscene suggests he has some degree of oratory skill with an ability to express empathy to those in straits. An educated and sober-headed man.
I'd imagine he'd be quite popular to officers and crew in his fleet.
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He's not only a thoughtful and well spoken man, as shown by the ending monologues, but the fleet under his command participated in some of the most important actions in the second Shivan incursion. Given the often overwhelming odds, I could see the GTVA giving him some sort of recognition for his service.
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His skill strategic innovation in using the Hecate as a rearline carrier in support of other assets was rivaled only by his tactical innovation of losing to Molochs.
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Blame Petrarch for letting the Moloch get close to the Aquitaine, but blame the ship's CO for her anaemic performance against the corvette.
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Anyone with Alpha One under their command would be remembered well barring something extraordinary.
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Now that I think about it how did those Molochs jump in so close to the node?
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And why couldn't the GTVA be bothered to have a solitary cruiser, or reserve squadron to defend their fragile command ship before it was disabled?And in the same breath they send an Aeolus to defend the transport carrying the parts to fix said destroyed. We will never know.
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His skill strategic innovation in using the Hecate as a rearline carrier in support of other assets was rivaled only by his tactical innovation of losing to Molochs.
You work with what you have, and that was more down to the Hecate being a problematic design in subspace war.
Petrarch will be remembered as the Second Shivan Incursion's essential man. He was there at every critical juncture and it was his people who made whatever victories the GTVA salvaged possible.
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Think he'll get a destroyer named after him eventually?
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Think he'll get a destroyer named after him eventually?
Probably not, there's no real precedent for naming destroyers after people in-universe, is there? The Eisenhower is the only one AFAIK and that went up years before FS1.
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Think he'll get a destroyer named after him eventually?
Probably not, there's no real precedent for naming destroyers after people in-universe, is there? The Eisenhower is the only one AFAIK and that went up years before FS1.
Not canonically, I don't think. There are a couple named after historical figures, notably science vessels like the Einstein, but by and large they're either mythological figures or historical ships (Eisenhower, etc.)
BP has the Marcus Glaive, though, so maybe in that continuity.
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Think he'll get a destroyer named after him eventually?
Probably not, there's no real precedent for naming destroyers after people in-universe, is there? The Eisenhower is the only one AFAIK and that went up years before FS1.
Not canonically, I don't think. There are a couple named after historical figures, notably science vessels like the Einstein, but by and large they're either mythological figures or historical ships (Eisenhower, etc.)
BP has the Marcus Glaive, though, so maybe in that continuity.
Fair point, come to think of it the medical ships are also named after important figures in the history of medicine, and there's the Boadicea, although that's never named in game.
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I know, introduce a Galactic Terran destroyer Petrarch in mods!
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HELL! I think Petrarch deserves an entire destroyer CLASS named after him. Something like the next generation Orion class that can hit hard, take a beating, and still command an entire theatre of flight OPS and warships.
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Yes, and it will be filled with Vasudan design features. Or Shivan? Or Ancient?
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HELL! I think Petrarch deserves an entire destroyer CLASS named after him. Something like the next generation Orion class that can hit hard, take a beating, and still command an entire theatre of flight OPS and warships.
How about if the fanmade Icelus class ever got made in FS canon...naming that after Petrarch? It's supposed to be a better Hecate.
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Could be one of the candidates. And it will appear in either Blue Planet, Inferno or FreeSpace: Reunited (after Shattered Stars is done with).
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HELL! I think Petrarch deserves an entire destroyer CLASS named after him. Something like the next generation Orion class that can hit hard, take a beating, and still command an entire theatre of flight OPS and warships.
How about if the fanmade Icelus class ever got made in FS canon...naming that after Petrarch? It's supposed to be a better Hecate.
Doesn't feel hard-hitting enough for my tastes.
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HELL! I think Petrarch deserves an entire destroyer CLASS named after him. Something like the next generation Orion class that can hit hard, take a beating, and still command an entire theatre of flight OPS and warships.
How about if the fanmade Icelus class ever got made in FS canon...naming that after Petrarch? It's supposed to be a better Hecate.
Doesn't feel hard-hitting enough for my tastes.
Are there any fanmade destroyers then that worthy of the title "Petrarch class"?
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What did he actually do that was deserving of such an honour? I get that he had a cool voice and it's sad Robert Loggia died, but the character was nothing exceptional, people on here used to constantly rip the piss out of command for being idiotic.
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Keep in mind that while Petrarch has nothing to do with Alpha 1 from our perspective, in-universe this is not the case. Alpha 1 would be considered a product of Petrarch's command of the Aquitaine, so all the stuff you get up to during a game would be reflecting some glory back on him.
Like I said earlier, when the GTVA needed to Get It Done, they called Petrarch, who called Alpha 1. Pretty much only two major events in FS2 happen without their involvement: the Colossus smashing the Neo-Terran Front like they were made of tinkertoys, and the destruction of the Vigilant.
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Petrach is the most recognizable GTVA commander, but I can't say I'm somehow bound to him. We just weren't given the opportunity as we didn't took part in any major offensive alongside the Aquitaine. In fact, in most cases we covered her retreat :P.
FS2 main campaign is generally not character-driven and the only interesting and complex character we encounter is Admiral Bosch. He had his goals and vision. I liked how we were hunting for him, but he has always been one step ahead. The second character I find a bit deeper than the others is Snipes. The others, including Petrarch, are just custom military commanders.
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Keep in mind that while Petrarch has nothing to do with Alpha 1 from our perspective, in-universe this is not the case. Alpha 1 would be considered a product of Petrarch's command of the Aquitaine, so all the stuff you get up to during a game would be reflecting some glory back on him.
Like I said earlier, when the GTVA needed to Get It Done, they called Petrarch, who called Alpha 1. Pretty much only two major events in FS2 happen without their involvement: the Colossus smashing the Neo-Terran Front like they were made of tinkertoys, and the destruction of the Vigilant.
Some glory, but I wouldn't have thought it would be much.
His career isn't exactly glittering - Petrarch wasn't really involved in the destruction of the first Sathanas, other than sending Alpha One on an exchange programme, he gets a bit of credit for that but I'd expect more of it goes to the Vasudan command.
The whole deal with sending the Bastion to the jump node - a move which cost the GTVA the Bastion several cruisers etc. and the cluster**** that lead to the Colossus getting carved up - happened under his watch and was completely unnecessary as the Shivans had no intention of invading. The Aquitaine was also left stranded in the nebula more than once needing Alpha One heroics, that doesn't reflect well on him.
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Some glory, but I wouldn't have thought it would be much.
His career isn't exactly glittering - Petrarch wasn't really involved in the destruction of the first Sathanas, other than sending Alpha One on an exchange programme, he gets a bit of credit for that but I'd expect more of it goes to the Vasudan command.
The whole deal with sending the Bastion to the jump node - a move which cost the GTVA the Bastion several cruisers etc. and the cluster**** that lead to the Colossus getting carved up - happened under his watch and was completely unnecessary as the Shivans had no intention of invading. The Aquitaine was also left stranded in the nebula more than once needing Alpha One heroics, that doesn't reflect well on him.
A pilot isn't just a person who happens to be skilled. They are a product of their training and their environment. By any standards Alpha 1 is a virtuoso, and credit for that has to go to the people who shaped them; the squadron officers of the 53rd and 107th for starters, and the environment they worked in, as set by Petrarch. By the time you get to the Vasudan exchange program Alpha 1's skillset and attitudes are likely pretty developed. What they do there can easily be traced back to their formative period of actual fleet service.
The Bastion was ordered from above and your argument about it is specious, as it assumes facts not in evidence for the GTVA at the time, and indeed facts not in evidence period. The mere fact of the attacks on the Bastion deployment suggest a much more complicated situation than you're arguing for. It's not like the Shivans were just hanging out by the Capella star chilling; they were engaged in active offensive operations against everything that wasn't Shivan in Capella, even if it was clearly trying to just run away. The argument they had no interest in pursuing the GTVA is undermined by the fact they were actually pursing the GTVA.
I can't even begin to grasp how you think Petrarch is to blame about the destruction of the Colossus. That's crazy talk.
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HELL! I think Petrarch deserves an entire destroyer CLASS named after him. Something like the next generation Orion class that can hit hard, take a beating, and still command an entire theatre of flight OPS and warships.
How about if the fanmade Icelus class ever got made in FS canon...naming that after Petrarch? It's supposed to be a better Hecate.
Doesn't feel hard-hitting enough for my tastes.
Are there any fanmade destroyers then that worthy of the title "Petrarch class"?
How about the GTD Daegon (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTD_Daegon)? Its got the same Orion-ish lines and is quite bad-ass looking.
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtddaegon.jpg)
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I loved this Destroyer! Some updated love and would be a nice candidate if you ask me. And yes I'm still around :)
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Some glory, but I wouldn't have thought it would be much.
His career isn't exactly glittering - Petrarch wasn't really involved in the destruction of the first Sathanas, other than sending Alpha One on an exchange programme, he gets a bit of credit for that but I'd expect more of it goes to the Vasudan command.
The whole deal with sending the Bastion to the jump node - a move which cost the GTVA the Bastion several cruisers etc. and the cluster**** that lead to the Colossus getting carved up - happened under his watch and was completely unnecessary as the Shivans had no intention of invading. The Aquitaine was also left stranded in the nebula more than once needing Alpha One heroics, that doesn't reflect well on him.
A pilot isn't just a person who happens to be skilled. They are a product of their training and their environment. By any standards Alpha 1 is a virtuoso, and credit for that has to go to the people who shaped them; the squadron officers of the 53rd and 107th for starters, and the environment they worked in, as set by Petrarch. By the time you get to the Vasudan exchange program Alpha 1's skillset and attitudes are likely pretty developed. What they do there can easily be traced back to their formative period of actual fleet service.
The Bastion was ordered from above and your argument about it is specious, as it assumes facts not in evidence for the GTVA at the time, and indeed facts not in evidence period. The mere fact of the attacks on the Bastion deployment suggest a much more complicated situation than you're arguing for. It's not like the Shivans were just hanging out by the Capella star chilling; they were engaged in active offensive operations against everything that wasn't Shivan in Capella, even if it was clearly trying to just run away. The argument they had no interest in pursuing the GTVA is undermined by the fact they were actually pursing the GTVA.
I can't even begin to grasp how you think Petrarch is to blame about the destruction of the Colossus. That's crazy talk.
What about the dozens of other pilots from those squads and that **** that dropped like flies? It's obviously got next to nothing to do with him if one pilot is a million times more effective than all the others.
The GTVA instigated an unbelievably costly plan to blow the jump nodes, the resources they were using to protect the Bastion and distract the Shivans from it could have been put to much better use protecting the evacuating ships. The Colossus going up was part of that. Maybe Petrarch was involved in that decision, maybe he wasn't, if he was then with hindsight it would be looked on as a complete waste. Even without hindsight, why the hell didn't they blow the Gamma Draconis node instead of waiting for the Sathanas fleet to come through? If he wasn't involved in any of the major decisions, why would he be remembered at all other than being in Alpha One's chain of command?
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Even without hindsight, why the hell didn't they blow the Gamma Draconis node instead of waiting for the Sathanas fleet to come through?
My personal theory is that they just couldn't have the amount of meson bombs nor the big ass mothballed destroyer to carry them on hand soon enough (They only had 3 back when they attempted to destroy the subspace portal). I'm not sure they even considered blowing up an actual node before the destruction of the Psamtik, otherwise they could have seal off gamma drax rather than let the Sathanas go against the Colossus.
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Even without hindsight, why the hell didn't they blow the Gamma Draconis node instead of waiting for the Sathanas fleet to come through?
Well, by the time the Bastion was ready for deployment, there was already 80+ Juggernauts in Capella. Even if you say that preparing one destroyer instead of two would be quicker (which makes sense), that probably gives time for at least a dozen Juggernauts to get in Capella. I'd say the GTVA could handle (survive) a max of 5 Juggernauts, so that wouldn't work. However, if the GTVA destroys both nodes nearly at the same time, it catches the Shivans off guard and they cant get many ships through the last node. Remember, the Shivans knew the GTVA could destroy the Knossos, but had no idea that they could destroy a natural jump node.
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What about the dozens of other pilots from those squads and that **** that dropped like flies? It's obviously got next to nothing to do with him if one pilot is a million times more effective than all the others.
Since this is the only part that even matters about Petrarch, I'll only address this. The rest is irrelevant.
Anyways. We used to complain about wingmen being useless too, but that's a function of difficulty level more than anything (and how well the player manages them; if you're ridiculously on top of it in battle management you can get an awful lot out of them), so we've kind of gotten beyond that.
Kind of like we've gotten beyond assuming Command is moronic for doing things they wouldn't have known to do.
But really, I'm glad that's consistently your personal experience, but it's not mine, and it's even consistent across difficulty. So, no, these guys aren't me. But they're not bad, either. In fact, if we go by "they all died so they're clearly morons" the worst pilots in the game are Vasudan in my experience, and beyond Petrarch's control.
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Concerning something said earlier:
One might be able to blame GTVA Command for having the Colossus where it was (though didn't Command order the Colossus to retreat)...but I don't see how Petrarch specifically could be blamed.
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There could be a defamation campaign against him for losing Capella and the Colossus.
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How could he be blamed for the Colossus though?
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What if we just named a planet after him?
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... or an installation. "Petrarch Station".
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... or an installation. "Petrarch Station".
Could that be the name for the Sol Gate installation?
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... or an installation. "Petrarch Station".
Could that be the name for the Sol Gate installation?
I like this one.
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I remember when playing the FS2 campaign that one of the major vibes I got was respect for Petrarch. Aside from his general attitude during the Command briefs, his monologues at the end really hit home (I first got the Ending B Cutscene, the one where you die, so that's the speech that stuck with me most).
Darius' comment here:
"Petrarch's monologue in the ending cutscene suggests he has some degree of oratory skill with an ability to express empathy to those in straits. An educated and sober-headed man."
Pretty much sums up my impression of him. I'd really have liked to see him given a proper memorial. Maybe something in BP canon...? (Although it wouldn't really be that relevant to the BP story)
The idea of naming a destroyer class after him sounds just terrific.
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The idea of naming a destroyer class after him sounds just terrific.
You're only saying that cause they named a ship after you. :p