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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Jadehawk on February 04, 2016, 09:11:44 pm

Title: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 04, 2016, 09:11:44 pm
So while I worked on cleaning up the GVF Satet, I started this GTB I'm calling the Condor. Split Quad missile banks, Heavy assault cannons under the nose with a dorsal and ventral Anti-fighter turrets. Still need to work on the cockpit area as I don't like the setup.

https://p3d.in/KpUJI

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Mammothtank on February 04, 2016, 09:27:40 pm
I like. I like. Those big things on either side of the cockpit are the missile banks yes? Tried making the furthest ones from the centre smaller or moved them back a bit?

Also this bomber has a pretty unique Silhouette to it.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Thisisaverylongusername on February 04, 2016, 09:56:00 pm
Interesting. Its like a mixture of the Medusa and Boanerges. I like it, though!
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 04, 2016, 10:23:05 pm
Guys, thanks! Mommothtank, I did try to move them back as been suggested in another thread. However, I didn't like the look and (in my opinion) would cause some re-loading trouble for the missile banks. Besides, it looks cleaner as shown here. :)

Yes I took elements I liked from them all. :) Still a long way to go.

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Mammothtank on February 04, 2016, 10:42:17 pm
Interesting. Its like a mixture of the Medusa and Boanerges. I like it, though!

More like an Ursa/Boanerges with bits of the Medusa in my opinion.

Guys, thanks! Mommothtank, I did try to move them back as been suggested in another thread. However, I didn't like the look and (in my opinion) would cause some re-loading trouble for the missile banks. Besides, it looks cleaner as shown here. :)

Yes I took elements I liked from them all. :) Still a long way to go.

All the best,
Jadehawk


I was thinking of making a ship for FS lately. But I have no clue how to. I hope your's turns out well. Your Bomber certainly feels like a FS2 era attempt at replacing the Ursa.
What kind of Bomber is it? It looks to me like a Heavy, but I really don't know how big it is. Besides we always have room for more good bombers! :)
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 04, 2016, 11:03:37 pm
How about mounting a pair of BIG anti-cap primary banks between the inner and outer banks?  A weapon with a high damage factor (possibly in the neighborhood of a medium bomb), a ludicrously long fire-wait, and takes up a full, standard weapon energy to fire... meaning if you have your ETS equalized and your weapon energy at maximum, one volley from this will empty it.  If you have your weapon energy maxed-out, it will take up most of the weapon energy, but not all.  If you have less than default power directed at weapons, it will refuse to fire, warning you of low weapon power.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 05, 2016, 07:05:25 am
Hi Folks! :)

My idea was to combine the elements I liked in most of the classic bombers in this design. One thing I always wondered is why they have such a large area for so many missiles? Why not just something that had, say..like 4 to 6 missile tubes with 7 to 10 rapid reloads?

Mommothtank, May I suggest you try this 3D program that's free and it's what I use to start all my projects:

http://www.wings3d.com/
And Blender for Optimizing the model and exporting to .pof, .obj and other formats. To be fair, Blender can do everything, but the interface is far more complicated, but can be learned if patient! :) So give wings 3D a try then Blender.
https://www.blender.org/

Trivial Psychic, thanks for the suggestions :)
I never thought of mounting Big Anti-Cap weapons on this bomber. Has this been done before as I'm not sure I seen one. If this is something the community would like to see, I can look into the design. If implemented, I would think it would take up half the Bomber loadout, but might be a good trade off for the fire power?
Folks, chime in on this please!
Condor Mk I is a Heavy Assault Bomber that is used in groups and rarely ever seen alone. In the past, Bombers of this size had maneuvering performance on the likes of a drunken pig trying to do a snappy break dance! Pretty much like the heavy bombers it replaces. But this one was designed from the outset to bring it's maneuvering performance up to a more useful level for both tactical and survival reasons. The two Anti-fighter turrets with Heavy fighter cannons improve it's self defense and make life for attacking fighter difficult in shooting this down with cannon. These have two modes, Auto and manual control used by the Weapons officer and even the pilot if needed.
Due to the large requirement for power, this ship has a 2 complete separate fusion systems, one for the engines, other for the rest of the ship. But can be linked and used in the Assault mode or as needed depending on the mission.

Crew is 2, Pilot and Weapons Officer. Pilot has control over the huge Assault cannons under the cockpit.

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 07, 2016, 12:27:04 pm
So now I think I pretty much got this one done,
The GTB Condor's configuration as you see it I pretty much like now. The Cockpit was the hardest out of the several configurations I tried, this one I feel good with. Seats two crew members, Pilot above the Weapons Officer. I replaced all the guns with what you see now after I installed the full Freespace 2 game and looked at the other bombers.

I need your opinion on something I wanted for a large Anti-Capital size weapon this will carry. I was going to include a twin bomb bay that dropped them from the Bomber's center bottom area. This ship can carry a total of 8, 4 in each bomb bay. The first configuration would be one behind the other, The second configuration would be side-by-side bomb bays. Which one you prefer? Should I make a model of each? Should I actually build a bomb bay? Doors too?  Or just show the doors and call it even?

https://p3d.in/iiAFc

All the best,
Jadehawk

P.S. How do I not lose my turrets when I convert my model to .POF? I think I'm supposed to keep them separate and not combined to the derail01 model right?

Thanks again
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 07, 2016, 07:46:49 pm
Update:

https://p3d.in/hYIJ9

Alternate with heavy armor and some detailing.

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Veers on February 07, 2016, 09:36:04 pm
I love those vents behind the pods. L o v e.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 08, 2016, 06:20:54 pm
Thanks,  do too :) Guess I'll continue on with the bomb bay :)

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 08, 2016, 06:55:48 pm
I'm liking the second version.  I also compliment you on the compound-sweep of the missile bays.  I'd also suggest some variation to the engines.  The current ones feel a bit too hard-edged in my opinion.  I'd suggest forward-canting the upper portion of the engines, and perhaps narrowing the bottom portion.  Just a few ideas.  Coming along well regardless.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 08, 2016, 08:49:17 pm
if i raised this ship some distance in the 4th dimension and then imported it into elite: dangerous would it be an ana condor?
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 08, 2016, 10:02:44 pm
Thanks again folks! :)

I'll check out the engine mods. I too find them....somewhat wanting more . So yeah I'll give it a spin. :)

Condor was something I came up with in a pinch. Can it be changed? Of course! I liked it at first due to the large size the Raptor is and the long flights it can make.

BTW, I made the bomb bay  doors and have my examples of the Anti-Cap missiles ACM 112 sized to fit. P3D models to come soon :)

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 08, 2016, 11:43:46 pm
Latest changes and the new Anti-Cap Missiles just for comparison. 

All the best,
Jadehawk

https://p3d.in/LnBOh
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 09, 2016, 07:21:21 pm
Are those missiles gonna be fully external or will they be kept internally and then swing down prior to firing?

If I may make another comment, from the side it looks to me as though the center of thrust is too low compared with the craft's overall mass.  I would suggest that you raise the engines up so that the top of them is level with the platform for the top turret.  The section ahead of the engines that connects them to the main hull could then slope down to connect to the hull, or step down.  Again... just my observations.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 09, 2016, 08:47:42 pm
The missiles are just hanging below the bomb bays. I had them there to get an idea (AS WELL AS SHOWING YOU FOLKS!)

Will look at the engine sections again.

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 13, 2016, 11:12:18 pm
Ok, Stopped on the Concord and back on this pretty much most of the day.
Needless to say, adding them missile tubes was wracking my mind to pieces! But I finally got what I wanted and here is the result. Also, I completed the rear of the engines as well.

Should I add more detailing? Your opinions?
 
All the best,
Jadehawk

https://p3d.in/mId1I

P.S.
Please note the p3d modeling shows more Tessellating than what is actually on there.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 14, 2016, 08:17:20 am
I know you spend a lot of time on the missiles, but given the size of most of the bombs a ship like this would likely be firing, they may be too small in my opinion.  If you haven't moved too far on that, you may want to consider... at least for the outer or inner bank, giving them fewer, larger missile points.  You could combine this with bank-specific loadout options in the tables so only bombs can be loaded into the "big missile" banks, and only missiles can be loaded into the "small missile" banks.  I would also suggest some detailing to the sides ahead of the engines.  Show recesses with exposed machinery, kinda like on the Herc. 1.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 14, 2016, 10:23:26 am
I was not 100% certain adding this many missile tubs would be necessary and in all honesty, I feel about half would suffice  that's shown. In reality, having this many would cause a nightmare in a very complicated system for managing this many missile tubes. You're right, bigger is better in this regard. Glad I have a habit of saving multiple copies at different stages of my work for this reason :)

Thanks and bring in more comments folks! :)

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 14, 2016, 06:52:52 pm
New Missile load out configuration.

https://p3d.in/TQ7sR

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 14, 2016, 07:31:51 pm
It's just too many missiles, especially given how clean the rest of the ship looks. Maybe make the surface of the banks flush with the edges, without that raised rim?
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Nyctaeus on February 14, 2016, 08:46:29 pm
Why do you have to cut a hole and put head of the missile here? You may just put some round detail onto face as non-magnifold detail... Or do this later via texture.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 15, 2016, 08:03:58 am
I agree with Phantom, that still looks to me like too many missiles, and too small an aperture for larger bombs.  I reiterate my suggestion of having one of the banks... the inner ones perhaps, reduced to just a single row of larger missile points per window, or perhaps have some in stagger rather than parallel rows.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 15, 2016, 06:52:41 pm
Humm...ok guys! :) How about I reduce the number to 8 missiles per side? I understand having the number I had was too much. I was initially trying to emulate the Cannon types of Bombers number . I'll give the 8 number a try and present it here. Since they will be large, I do not feel emulating the detail on a texture would suffice due to the large size of the missiles. Or maybe just show some hatches instead?

We'll see and all this is part of the journey to get it right. Much thanks for the opinions :)

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 15, 2016, 07:33:42 pm
Ok, perhaps an improvement?  Note, I just added 8 missiles per side, some armor plating as well. Still a long way to go.  :D

https://p3d.in/jqHLY

All the best and keep them comments coming!

Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Raven2001 on February 15, 2016, 07:55:09 pm
Think you ought to pay more attention to the overall shape for now, rather than the small details like bomb tubes.

Try to think hours the bomber would be built. Posts parts that are produced and assembled together, etc.
Right now it looks too much like a 3d model, rather than something that would be built
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 17, 2016, 07:35:01 am
Certainly much more realistic for missile tubes now.  :yes:
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Mammothtank on February 17, 2016, 07:47:09 am
I honestly can imagine that this is just an Ursa frame underneath that new shiny FS2 era armour and plating.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 17, 2016, 05:21:52 pm
Yes the Ursula was my inspiration for doing this.

ok, I went and cleaned up the back center of this ship and pretty much redid the engine rears as well. In fact, the whole back end has changed. The basic shape is there now as the panels have been aligned and such.

One thing I see from working on all my projects is I cant please everyone :) But that does not mean I don't care, In fact, I take everyone's opinions into consideration and see if that's a better idea or not. So weather I incorporate your suggestions and ideas or not, it dies have an influence in the overall design and this reflects mine and everyone's thoughts. :)

Latest configuration here:

https://p3d.in/7lxhN

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 17, 2016, 05:52:15 pm
Is that some sort of comms or sensor boom on the left wingtip?
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 17, 2016, 06:14:32 pm
Yes it is a long range passive sensor.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 17, 2016, 07:50:28 pm
Will this have similar capabilities to the Aurora from BP?
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 17, 2016, 10:18:58 pm
I remember playing BP when it first came out. But that was a long time ago and cant remember it's capabilities. I envisioned this as a heavy assault bomber which depending on it's load out, would take on large cap ships, large installations and the alike. The heavy cannons under the nose are it's secondary offensive weapon with the missile load out it's main obviously.

I also have a variant of this bomber that has heavy armor used by the Special Operations Branch as well. Uprated fusion reactors to help compensate the extra weight and increased shielding as well. Other than that, pretty much the same.

Having said all this, this bomber's capabilities can be changed to suite what we the community needs as well. After all, this is Freespace :)

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 18, 2016, 06:56:35 am
In BP, the Aurora is kinda like a miniature AWACS.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 18, 2016, 09:41:04 am
Ahh ok, in real life, I have worked on the E-3 AWACS and the AEW&C Wedgetail airborne surveillance aircraft and could do something similar if it's wanted. No rotating thingy as that technology pretty much has been replaced by solid state electronics which the radar is electronically steered versus the manually rotated one. But, who's to say we can have that here too?

All the best,
Jadehawk
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 18, 2016, 10:32:49 pm
I never actually said that I wanted it to be an AWACS ship, I just was comparing your mentioning of this ship's long-range passive radar capabilities to the semi-AWACS capabilities of BP's GTF Aurora.
Title: Re: GTB Condor Mk I WIP
Post by: Jadehawk on February 19, 2016, 04:59:01 pm
Yes, understood :) I would imagine (in my opinion) by the time this ship got around in squadron service, passive technology would be paramount for offensive assaults in the missions it's designed for. Found some boo-boos with the front of the model and been working on that.

All the best,
Jadehawk