Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: g25 on March 21, 2016, 12:43:30 pm
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EDIT: Ok I made a youtube video of me using it, a demo of how to use it:
https://youtu.be/uoRt2h8ABfw
I wanted some cheats MY WAY instead of just the ones the game gives you. Wan't infinite hull but NOT shields? Want infinite subsystem health but NOT hull/shields. Well with this table you can pick and choose what YOU want.
I also wanted a way to change weapon/ship stats if/when I modded to play around with and test on the fly so no constant exiting game/reload/etc. So after a LONG time I finally finished this table. Make sure you read the info for the table on the post. The only thing mainly I was UNABLE to edit on the fly are the ships $Rotation Time X,Y,Z. I found the values but there is no effect in game when I change them for some reason. So as long as you change the X,Y,Z for what you want in the tbl file you can mod on the fly most of the rest of the basic stats for the default ships/weapons. Some of the stats for the ships must be changed in the flight deck ONLY, as they won't change in mission. I put in all of the default ships and most GTF weapons for FSport and FS2 for yall to play around with. Its great to test in game what different values DO without having to edit the table file over and over and over. Anyway took forever to make and I won't do 3.7.4 until the FINAL is released as its just too much work. When 3.7.4 final comes out I will update it to work with it though. Who knows Some of the stuff might work with 3.7.4 RC3 but I doubt it. Here is the post to download the table:
http://forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?t=588612
Make sure you read ALL of the instructions. Let me know if this is working for you as I can't promise it will as I am VERY new with making tables like this. So if it does not work for you there isn't much I can do to fix it.
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The only thing mainly I was UNABLE to edit on the fly are the ships $Rotation Time X,Y,Z. I found the values but there is no effect in game when I change them for some reason.
That's because they're not used directly:
sip->max_rotvel.xyz.x = (2 * PI) / sip->rotation_time.xyz.x;
sip->max_rotvel.xyz.y = (2 * PI) / sip->rotation_time.xyz.y;
sip->max_rotvel.xyz.z = (2 * PI) / sip->rotation_time.xyz.z;
That being said, the source could probably be edited to add an option to reparse the tables while the game is running just like there's already an option to reparse mainhalls...
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The only thing mainly I was UNABLE to edit on the fly are the ships $Rotation Time X,Y,Z. I found the values but there is no effect in game when I change them for some reason.
That's because they're not used directly:
sip->max_rotvel.xyz.x = (2 * PI) / sip->rotation_time.xyz.x;
sip->max_rotvel.xyz.y = (2 * PI) / sip->rotation_time.xyz.y;
sip->max_rotvel.xyz.z = (2 * PI) / sip->rotation_time.xyz.z;
That being said, the source could probably be edited to add an option to reparse the tables while the game is running just like there's already an option to reparse mainhalls...
Ah, so it reads the X,Y,Z from the ship.tbl into memory at the start of the game but does not reparse it when you enter the loadout screen or mission like it does all the other values? It just runs the info through some equation dynamically according to what was parsed when the game first loads.
Is it possible to get the source edited to parse the X,Y,Z portion of the ship when you go into the mission and when you restart a mission? Who would I talk to about adding that in? It would REALLY round out my ship editor. To get it added so when the 3.7.4 final comes out we can use the X,Y,Z part of the ship editor portion? Thanks, that would be awesome to be able to fully edit the ship handling on the fly as well.
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I can't see how any of that is appealing aside from silly mod purposes.
Plus there's always the risk of the AI getting all of these "cheats" too.
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Is it possible to get the source edited to parse the X,Y,Z portion of the ship when you go into the mission and when you restart a mission?
...Yes, it's possible to do just that, but wouldn't you rather have the option to reparse everything so you didn't need Cheat Engine tables in the first place?
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I can't see how any of that is appealing aside from silly mod purposes.
Plus there's always the risk of the AI getting all of these "cheats" too.
The ai gets some of them if the table states they do. Otherwise, it doesn't.
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Is it possible to get the source edited to parse the X,Y,Z portion of the ship when you go into the mission and when you restart a mission?
...Yes, it's possible to do just that, but wouldn't you rather have the option to reparse everything so you didn't need Cheat Engine tables in the first place?
So if its reparsed then you could edit the table files while playing and save them and the game would update with new values? Well that would also fix the issue with the X,Y,Z ship handling portion of my table at least. But I would still use the table as its quicker and more convenient for me. Plus it has all the rest of the stuff with it as well. Ok so how do we go about getting that into a release?
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So if its reparsed then you could edit the table files while playing and save them and the game would update with new values? Well that would also fix the issue with the X,Y,Z ship handling portion of my table at least. But I would still use the table as its quicker and more convenient for me. Plus it has all the rest of the stuff with it as well. Ok so how do we go about getting that into a release?
Well, somebody has to code it first.
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So if its reparsed then you could edit the table files while playing and save them and the game would update with new values? Well that would also fix the issue with the X,Y,Z ship handling portion of my table at least. But I would still use the table as its quicker and more convenient for me. Plus it has all the rest of the stuff with it as well. Ok so how do we go about getting that into a release?
Well, somebody has to code it first.
Oh, yea I was asking who I could request/ask to code it :)
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So give us a quick rundown of what Cheat Engine is and how this is intended to work, from the users' point of view.
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So give us a quick rundown of what Cheat Engine is and how this is intended to work, from the users' point of view.
Well from the website:
"Cheat Engine is an open source tool designed to help you with modifying single player games running under window so you can make them harder or easier depending on your preference(e.g: Find that 100hp is too easy, try playing a game with a max of 1 HP), but also contains other usefull tools to help debugging games and even normal applications.
It comes with a memory scanner to quickly scan for variables used within a game and allow you to change them, but it also comes with a debugger, disassembler, assembler, speedhack, trainer maker, direct 3D manipulation tools, system inspection tools and more."
The forum is here:
http://forum.cheatengine.org/
From the point of view of using my table, well you install the latest cheat engine, then load my table. Start the game, then open the Fsopen process with the open process button. Then you have the table view where you can change things. Here is a little tutorial on how to load a cheat engine table which is what I created:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMuMoOPXcDQ
For the table entries with a value, you can change the value then click on the little box on the table to Freeze the value. For the table entries with scripts you just click on the box to activate the script. For the ship and weapon editors, you just click on the box to select what ship or weapon you want to edit and all of the stats I have entered are there for you to change how you want them. I am in the process of updating it for 3.7.4RC1 so I can more easily update it for the 3.7.4 final when it comes out but it may take me days. For the 3.7.2 version though I can make a youtube video showing some of the stuff it can do and showing how to use it tomorrow if you like. I would do it now but I am pointer scanning for a value for the 3.7.4rc1 update which may take all night and can't open 3.7.2 right now while its going :/
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It pokes values in memory so you can change the game's behaviour. It's very bad practice on an open-source game like FSO, though; everything you can do with it can also be done far more transparently and reliably by modifying the source, which is essentially what Ralwood's saying. FSO could definitely do with better runtime developer tools, though.
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It pokes values in memory so you can change the game's behavior. It's very bad practice on an open-source game like FSO, though; everything you can do with it can also be done far more transparently and reliably by modifying the source, which is essentially what Ralwood's saying. FSO could definitely do with better runtime developer tools, though.
Its true you can do all of this by modding I suppose but thats not really the point is it? Its to change what you want on the fly and also to just play around with. Of course it can all be done permanently thru modding but not everyone wants to mod in the first place. Oh, and its not "very bad practice" as it does what it does and is fine practice for what it does. If it was modding, then yes, since its only in memory, its not the way to mod. Its not modding, but with it you can quickly change stuff on the fly and and find the values for what you want and THEN use those values to mod if you wish. Or you can just use it to cheat in unusual ways with options that are far more versatile than the built in cheat options. Being able to choose any ship for ANY mission for instance. Yea, you can go thru and manually change each ship for each mission in the files, but thats a pain. Why not just pull down and select it out of a drop down box while ingame? Some may like using it, some may not.
Just need that X,Y,Z info parsed when a mission loads for 3.7.4 and it will do everything I want it to do. Also, I want to make something the end user who doesn't mod can use if he wants also.
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What I'm saying is that FSO would be better off if it incorporated tools to alter things on the fly in a safe, easy to use way so you didn't have to use Cheat Engine for it. A script console would, I think, be extremely powerful.
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Oh, and its not "very bad practice" as it does what it does and is fine practice for what it does. If it was modding, then yes, since its only in memory, its not the way to mod. Its not modding, but with it you can quickly change stuff on the fly and and find the values for what you want and THEN use those values to mod if you wish. Or you can just use it to cheat in unusual ways with options that are far more versatile than the built in cheat options. Being able to choose any ship for ANY mission for instance. Yea, you can go thru and manually change each ship for each mission in the files, but thats a pain. Why not just pull down and select it out of a drop down box while ingame? Some may like using it, some may not.
Just for the record? For me, speaking as a software developer, tools that interfere with memory structures of another process are evil. They're a bad idea, born in the dark ages before memory protection became a thing embedded in hardware, and can cause more trouble than they're worth. Yes, I know, you're just modding games, it's not a big deal, yadda yadda yadda. I don't care. You don't **** with another program's memory.
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Ok, made a youtube video of how to use it. Link is in the first post.
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Oh, and its not "very bad practice" as it does what it does and is fine practice for what it does. If it was modding, then yes, since its only in memory, its not the way to mod. Its not modding, but with it you can quickly change stuff on the fly and and find the values for what you want and THEN use those values to mod if you wish. Or you can just use it to cheat in unusual ways with options that are far more versatile than the built in cheat options. Being able to choose any ship for ANY mission for instance. Yea, you can go thru and manually change each ship for each mission in the files, but thats a pain. Why not just pull down and select it out of a drop down box while ingame? Some may like using it, some may not.
Just for the record? For me, speaking as a software developer, tools that interfere with memory structures of another process are evil. They're a bad idea, born in the dark ages before memory protection became a thing embedded in hardware, and can cause more trouble than they're worth. Yes, I know, you're just modding games, it's not a big deal, yadda yadda yadda. I don't care. You don't **** with another program's memory.
Oi, don't get of hand here. Memory hacking is totally fine and cool as a way of tinkering with proprietary software, it's just a very bad fit for FSO modding. Don't go overboard and act like it's program rape.
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If someone wants to tinker with the programs in their PC's memory, I'm not gonna stop them. It is not, however, something I would do.
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So it's a GameShark for PC. Got it.
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Never mess with computer memory otherwise the computer will not remember you... :) Seriously, I don't use cheats. It destroys the whole experience. I like it when I get frustrated in games because it drives me mad...It DRIVES ME INSANE!!!....whew...I if want to cheat, I can just modify the Ship.tbl or xxx-shp.tbm file using notepad and change the "hitpoints" (ruining the game balance). Or maybe just the mission file, setting player ship "invulnerable" flag...I won't advice that either....wait, did I just do that? :lol:
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http://www.ign.com/cheats/games/freespace-2-pc-12033
So,
www.freespace2.com
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I
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Retail cheats don't work on all keyboards, though.
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Plus they're very, very limited.
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I don't understand why you're writing something to hack the memory when you could be writing that in as some sort of more robust developer console feature in debug builds or something? That seems more useful.
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Why only in debug builds?
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Why are you fiddling with tabled values and not using a debug build?
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It'd be useful for players, too, I would think.
Reminds me of Halo Custom Edition whee you could enable god mode and drop vehicles out of the sky, turn on super jumping, etc. So much fun. For a little while at least.
Basically, more power to the user. You'd want to nestle it into some sort of console enable switch that could be disabled server side for multi, though.
IDK :shrug: My 2c.
Imagine just messing around in a mission, and on a lark, deciding to increase the HP and max velocity of your ship and go on a ramming spree.
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Two words: Fast Debug.