Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mongoose on March 25, 2016, 09:18:34 pm
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So last summer, I built a shiny new gaming rig, and I went with Windows 7 as my OS of choice, which has garnered no serious complaints. My parents' several-year-old Dell is still running *shudder* Vista and desperately needs a reformat, so I picked up a spare OEM copy of 7 for them a few months back, and with my current holiday week off I'm finally getting around to sorting it out. My original plan was to not even bother with 7 for them, and just use the key for a straight upgrade to 10, with the added bonus of using their machine as a guinea pig to determine if I want to take the plunge on 10 myself. Now I'm somewhat waffling on that, and I figure the more prudent move may be to load 7 on there first, so that if/when I do go to 10 and they have significant issues using it, it'll be a simple matter to revert.
So here's my question to everyone using it: with all that's been said and written and debated ad nauseam, is the move to 10 from 7 (for my machine at least) the right one? I know all about DX12 exclusivity and support end dates and all that, but I also know about the litany of privacy concerns and forced Windows Updates and that whole mess, and there doesn't seem to be any real solid consensus. (Plus I really like how Aero looks, and I don't feel like mucking about with multiple third-party apps to get something which only mostly resembles it.) The end date for the free upgrade is near the end of July, so while there's still a few months left, I'm much more aware of the ticking clock now. Are there legitimate reasons to stay with the the known quantity that is 7, or should I quit stalling and just upgrade already?
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been using Linux mint as an HTPC/gaming machine for a few years now, I don't get why people still want windows at this point.
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I've been using it since the Tech Preview. I'd take the plunge.
Honestly, what's to stop you from re-formatting and then re-installing 7 if you don't like 10? Or dual-booting 7 and 10?
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I've not experienced any notable issues with 10 lately. At first it had some minor bugs that I noticed, but they seem to have gotten ironed out. And it boots up SO fast you guys.
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been using Linux mint as an HTPC/gaming machine for a few years now, I don't get why people still want windows at this point.
There are those of us who do like to tinker with things to some degree, yet don't envy being trapped in some sort of crazy driver hell, not to mention limited to (in the best case) 10% of game releases.
Honestly, what's to stop you from re-formatting and then re-installing 7 if you don't like 10? Or dual-booting 7 and 10?
I don't think you can do that if you take advantage of the free upgrade, can you? Because if you can I'd be all over that.
And I've heard about the fast boot-ups, but when you're already rocking an SSD and can get from hitting power to a functional desktop in all of 10 seconds, that's really the least of my concerns. :cool:
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Actually, you can revert back to an older Windows without issue. All that is going on currently is that your win 7 or win 8 key is also a win 10 key.
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I've had no real issues with it.
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Yeah, I liked using it too. With an SSD it cuts down the already quick startup time to near instantaneous and it's overall just a very slick and smooth operating system.
The biggest downside is probably that it wants you to participate in the Microsoft ecosystem (similarely to the google and apple ecosystems). That stuff is all optional, but it does get in the way a bit at the start.
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Honestly, what's to stop you from re-formatting and then re-installing 7 if you don't like 10? Or dual-booting 7 and 10?
I don't think you can do that if you take advantage of the free upgrade, can you? Because if you can I'd be all over that.
And I've heard about the fast boot-ups, but when you're already rocking an SSD and can get from hitting power to a functional desktop in all of 10 seconds, that's really the least of my concerns. :cool:
http://www.askvg.com/tip-dual-boot-between-windows-10-and-your-existing-windows-78-1-os/
^- Note that you don't have to do the whole clone & upgrade one partition thing now that MS lets you use your old 7/8/8.1 key to upgrade (https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/6815/microsoft-will-now-let-windows-10-upgraders-use-windows-7-8-or-8-1-product-key-to-activate); just clean install 10 on available partition space using the Media Creation Tool (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10) (scroll down for the download link, called "download tool now").
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I have held off on this so far. I want DX12 sooner or later, but have all my stuff working properly on 8.1 and am afraid of breaking some obscure game or driver (which may be fixable, but I don't want to spend time doing it). It seems that the auto-updates and telemetry can be disabled with a little work, and the appearance doesn't matter since I would use a custom theme anyway. I was going to try it on my 7-based laptop first but am not sure it supports the switchable graphics driver that uses.
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http://www.askvg.com/tip-dual-boot-between-windows-10-and-your-existing-windows-78-1-os/
^- Note that you don't have to do the whole clone & upgrade one partition thing now that MS lets you use your old 7/8/8.1 key to upgrade (https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/6815/microsoft-will-now-let-windows-10-upgraders-use-windows-7-8-or-8-1-product-key-to-activate); just clean install 10 on available partition space using the Media Creation Tool (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10) (scroll down for the download link, called "download tool now").
Huh, well that's handy. I may wind up going that route in the end, since it lets me have my cake and eat it too.
And I did go ahead and just put 7 on the parents' machine, for now at least. They tend to be more trainable tech-wise than most people their age I deal with, but if/when I do the upgrade over the next few months, it'll be nice to have the simple option to revert if the cries of "WAIT HOW THE HELL DO I DO THIS?!?!" become too loud. :D
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I have held off on this so far. I want DX12 sooner or later, but have all my stuff working properly on 8.1 and am afraid of breaking some obscure game or driver (which may be fixable, but I don't want to spend time doing it). It seems that the auto-updates and telemetry can be disabled with a little work, and the appearance doesn't matter since I would use a custom theme anyway. I was going to try it on my 7-based laptop first but am not sure it supports the switchable graphics driver that uses.
If it's like mine, yes. My laptop isn't even officially supported by Toshiba for Win 10, but Win 10 managed to find suitable drivers. I'd say dual-boot, and then when you realize you haven't booted to Win 7 in 6 months, delete that partition and resize 10 to fill that space. That's what I did (I have a 3rd data partition that I've used mklink /d to bind the user {Download, Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos, Desktop} directories of both 7 and 10 to -- use 7 to bind 10, and 10 to bind 7).
http://www.askvg.com/tip-dual-boot-between-windows-10-and-your-existing-windows-78-1-os/
^- Note that you don't have to do the whole clone & upgrade one partition thing now that MS lets you use your old 7/8/8.1 key to upgrade (https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/6815/microsoft-will-now-let-windows-10-upgraders-use-windows-7-8-or-8-1-product-key-to-activate); just clean install 10 on available partition space using the Media Creation Tool (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10) (scroll down for the download link, called "download tool now").
Huh, well that's handy. I may wind up going that route in the end, since it lets me have my cake and eat it too.
And I did go ahead and just put 7 on the parents' machine, for now at least. They tend to be more trainable tech-wise than most people their age I deal with, but if/when I do the upgrade over the next few months, it'll be nice to have the simple option to revert if the cries of "WAIT HOW THE HELL DO I DO THIS?!?!" become too loud. :D
Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/)
;)
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I gave it my "two-week try it and see if it sucks or grows on me" test, and it passed. Some annoying features that I disabled from the install/startup (e.g. Aero and those stupid notifications/sounds, market stuff in the start menu), but those were all trivial to get rid of. Basically I'm just running win10 as if its 7. It's nice.
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Using it because new PC. Yes with SSD it's fast. Dunno on mechs.
But I ran into issues upgrading to a new build (that 10586 fiasco) and reformatting was a pain. Hopefully no more reformats. Else no serious complaints apart from an old game that I really wanted to play again, refusing to work in 10 x64 where it did in 7 x64 (Won't mention title because unsure on legality.)
And maybe SupCom1 dual display not working, but my attempts at this weren't serious at all.
Otakus need to find replacement language tools... besides that, maybe scour around the interwebs for anything privacy and/or making the existing privacy settings easier to find in one place... (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10)
The way my system is set up right now w.r.t. drives and partitioning, I won't be seeing Linux any time soon. Arch pissed me off for being n00b-unfriendly and I didn't want to try Mint, although I somehow did get Arch running on an older C2D laptop (via a third-party image), fighting WinXP for dominance over the system clock :banghead:
Then again, I didn't do anything notable when I previously used Ubuntu studio.
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Win 10, shiny new tech, DX12... and adware.
Did I mention its adware, spies on you so MS can sell that juicy data? Ahem. The other is taking away user control. Some of the latest security updates in 10... includes adding ads directly to your start menu.
Windows 10 is adware, if you get a copy, get the Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB that allows you turn off updates and telemetry. Base Windows 10 is a privacy nightmare and designed to sell your habits to ad companies... and I think MS knew quite well their greatest enemy would be adblockers. That paranoia aside, Win7 is old, but it's stable and well loved. 7/8.1 users are mostly resistant and resilient to changing, and MS has been exceptionally aggressive about forcing it on everyone. Hardware and software realiability? tl;dr is that it's a mixed bag. If you've got professional programs and have a job that relies with it, stick with 7/8.1 for the time being. Win10 still has many programs that are unstable or haven't made the full migration.
Having used a preview copy myself it's good... but not good enough to change. Add Microsoft's decision to start spying on us and you can probably tell how I feel about it - pick it up if you really want to, but be warned it'll take quite a bit of work to lock down Win10, and that doesn't stop MS from shoving updates and driver updates that can break your system. Essentially, you don't "own" your OS, your merely a terminal for a cloud-based piece of adware. Even google and apple admit they track your habits for both telemetry and such, but MS pretty much makes it clear that you don't own your PC anymore. And that's a giant negative in my book, as they take away your ability to control the flow of updates from them to you.
Myself? I use Win7/LinuxMint for both gaming and common use. Win10 is pretty much the first time I'm not migrating to a new windows version until they stop with the adware nonsense. And combined with the pretty creepy revelations that Win10 actively tracks everything... yeah, not even the almighty google is that much of a cretin.
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I don't really mind Microsoft spying on me. I mean, there's nothing I really need to hide and I don't mind if they use that data so ad companies can try to sell me stuff I might actually care about instead of random junk. The fact that updates are forced and that I can't tweak or use my OS in any way I fancy is another thing though, that just crosses the line and that's why I'm still on Win7.
I have Ubuntu on my laptop but I noticed that when I'm gaming I end up having to emulate Windows for most of my games, which makes it kinda pointless. If I'm going to be running Windows for gaming I might as well just use Windows instead of emulating it.
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My only significant issues with windows 10 were because I updated from an install of 7 which I had been using for several months. downloading the install files to a flash drive and doing a clean install to windows 10, which I am on now, is running as smoothly as my windows 7 install was.
Even on my standard hard drives the boot times are fast, perhaps a minute to get to the login screen
Functionality is very similar to windows 7 with a few features though the Settings window is a little annoying because I cant use a control panel "Classic view"
Not noticed any issues with the few older games that I have installed
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Win 10, shiny new tech, DX12... and adware.
Did I mention its adware, spies on you so MS can sell that juicy data? Ahem. The other is taking away user control. Some of the latest security updates in 10... includes adding ads directly to your start menu.
It's weird. I've never seen any ads in the start menu. Before you posted this, it never even occurred to me to check for it; turns out, disabling this is just one click, and the option to do this is easily discoverable (It's exactly where you expect it to be).
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I switched to 10 when I bought a new notebook <Asus R510j>. The worst issue I had with the new Windows was the task bar which got locked/freezed after one update <they must have screwed something hard>. I had to solve this manually via windows PowerShell and later delete one folder manually. And I noticed recently that the efficiency of the system is dropping. I mean some programs (like Firefox, Photoshop draws damn lines with 2 sec lag) started working very slowly. Funny part, I'm using the notebook mostly for work (GIS software for university stuff), so the hard drive is free of trash but it seems to be more a configuration issue. And I did not play with configuration much myself. I must figure this out.
But overall I did not have any other problems with 10 worth notice. Personally I would like to stick with 7 but my notebook had the 8 installed in stock. And since I hate 8 the choice to upgrade was rather obvious :P
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If I could stay on 7, I would, but knowing that sooner or later it'll be phased out just like XP was phased out (imagine being stuck on DX9 when everyone is already years ahead on DX11), frankly I see it as a losing battle.
I rejected Vista back in the day so much that I loaded my campus laptop with XP... and then 1.5 years later 7 comes out with only Vista accepted as the upgrade path. Next thing I know, during one of my field trips, I was the only one who couldn't join the games everyone else was playing. (Not that it mattered since I had alternative forms of entertainment, but still.)
Least I wasn't studying in the IT field. Maybe the pressure on me to reformat would've been worse depending on the course modules...
If only I knew about the Enterprise kit beforehand, too late now I suppose. Don't have time or disk space to reformat again (or let alone where to buy the thing, not sure if I can find it retail COTS where I am). Such a chore...
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My thoughts is that win10 is truly nothing special and too agressive with the roll out and spying.
Other information:
Win8 wasn't bad when you installed classic shell start menu.
Handy hint:
Don't want win10 automatically installing? Assign the passwordless administrator account a password (now it only installs when you tell it too).
How to do? open cmd as admin, then "net user Administrator /active:yes", then give it a password in control panel or something (people should be doing this in windows anyway, in b4 i don't like my computer treating me like an idiot). And also disable recommended updates since win10 and other crap is recommended.
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Honestly, the "spying" and adware is much overblown, and there are a myriad of articles on how to eliminate all of it. In fact, while 10 defaults all of those tracking features to on, and quick trip on initial setup through two control panel areas and to one website with switch it all off in about 5 minutes. Done this on both my machines. As for the tweaking, I've yet to find a feature I could tweak or adjust in XP/7 than I can't do the same in 10 (provided it exists; 10 has done a great deal of positive streamlining).
I have two machines, both of which were happily on Windows 7. Brought them both to 10, and haven't looked back. It really is an upgrade in many ways, and if you're eligible for the free upgrade in particular, do it before the offer expires.
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Overblown? Unless you consider the fact that it overrides user control. You don't control the OS, Microsoft does. It's one thing to claim the NSA sponsored it like conspiracy nuts but MS got greedy and are using their platform to aggressively push crap. Win10 may look nice, but I'd happily trade it for a system that I, the user controls, and isn't at the mercy of Microsoft's servers. I consider Win10 a great step backwards because it forces us to surrender more and more of our autonomy to Microsoft.
They can push updates, other things on you and with most versions of Win10, you can't control it. Sure I sound crazy, but what I'm getting at is the ability for the user to control the flow of data and updates to their system. Win7, 8.1 and Win10 Enterprise LTSB still gives you that form of control that MS has seen fit to terminate - most users don't mind... until something breaks. If MS does something stupid, everyone can be potentially affected.
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If I happen to do a system upgrade in the near future, I'm pretty sure I'll stick with 7. It has worked remarkably well for me so far, and thus going with anything else would be a gamble.
Although I suppose I'll have a low chance of getting through the gazillion windows updates to a fresh install of 7 without something breaking. Or maybe it just breaks anyway on different hardware, and I was just super lucky with my current setup. There's never a way to tell beforehand.
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Overblown? Unless you consider the fact that it overrides user control. You don't control the OS, Microsoft does. It's one thing to claim the NSA sponsored it like conspiracy nuts but MS got greedy and are using their platform to aggressively push crap. Win10 may look nice, but I'd happily trade it for a system that I, the user controls, and isn't at the mercy of Microsoft's servers. I consider Win10 a great step backwards because it forces us to surrender more and more of our autonomy to Microsoft.
They can push updates, other things on you and with most versions of Win10, you can't control it. Sure I sound crazy, but what I'm getting at is the ability for the user to control the flow of data and updates to their system. Win7, 8.1 and Win10 Enterprise LTSB still gives you that form of control that MS has seen fit to terminate - most users don't mind... until something breaks. If MS does something stupid, everyone can be potentially affected.
I do control my system - including when and what it updates. I actually use Windows 10 though, which apparently you don't.
It makes an abundance of sense to push security updates on everyone immediately, which is also why Apple and Android are both moving to that model. The only reason why Enterprise environments retain the ability to delay security updates is manufacturers assume their It departments have enough sense to have additional countermeasures deployed which even most advanced home users will not. The optional nature of security updates is one of the reasons malware in Windows environments is so common - most of the exploits are rapidly patched, but users don't bother. The days of "optional-on" internet connections are largely behind us, and with it so should be optional security updates.
Fun additional fact: I've been using Windows since 3.1, and I've used auto-updates as long as they've been available (with varying degrees of intrusiveness). In that time, I've had Windows Update break a grand total of one thing: they deployed a RAID driver that didn't work properly with my controller (that was on Windows 7). To Microsoft's credit, they pulled the patch nearly immediately. A quick system restore fixed it.
Non-optional security patches (as opposed to updates, which can be deferred) is definitely not a reason to stick with Windows 7. The ONLY compelling reason not to move - for free - from 7 to 10 is if there is something configured on your current system that simply will not work in 10. For the vast majority of home users, that isn't the case (I've personally updated two low-medium-end laptops from 2009-2010 to Windows 10, and it's considerably faster than 7 on both). If it's a paid upgrade only for you and your system life is planned to terminate prior to the security update support of Windows 7, then by all means it's not worth paying extra for.
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Overblown? Unless you consider the fact that it overrides user control.
Just for specificity, are you talking about uac, or overriding user control in general?
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User control in general. I'm no idiot, but when I have to help people install WIndows10, there's 13 pages of crap during install, post-update pages, and stuff to turn it off.
I can call that pretty damn overblown. 13 pages and nitpicking and stuff, and most of its turned on by default. Understandably when I was using the preview/beta build it was for analysis I knew what I was getting into, but pushing this on the average consumer? Most people won't even bother. Sure, I assume most computer users are stupid as hell, but under no circumstances do I think Microsoft is allowed to exploit them as such. But to be blunt, I don't think users should have updates forced on them. Even if they're security - the point is we cannot trust Microsoft to deliver all the time, and it's a mistake if we allow them more control.
It's an issue of trust, but I don't blindly trust MS. Not after the **** they pulled by porting that spying crap on Win7/8.1
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MY final verdict is pretty much the same as AtomicClucker's. I'm not playing into microsoft's data mining game. "But you can turn all that off." 1) I don't believe for a second that asking them nicely not to spy on you for profit is going to stop them. 2) Even if it does, why would I bother going through all that crap to install an OS that I'll like less than what I have anyway? 7 didn't suddenly stop working when 10 was released. I will continue to use it until it no longer meets my needs or a TRULY better option, ALL things considered is available.
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MY final verdict is pretty much the same as AtomicClucker's. I'm not playing into microsoft's data mining game. "But you can turn all that off." 1) I don't believe for a second that asking them nicely not to spy on you for profit is going to stop them.
They'd be morons for it not to be. The cost would be tremendous to be caught the other way. You want them to be big bad awesome conspiracy, and stupid. Can't have it both ways.
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I doubt they'd lie about it. What is easy to believe they will do is add some update later with some wonderful new feature which has a similar effect and has to be turned off separately. And they'll probably not have any option to turn it off when it first rolls out so that they can mine some data until enough people make a stink about it.
I can very easily believe they'd do that. It's not exactly un-Microsoft behaviour.
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Well, Microsoft's strategy is to blunder and crash its way to "victory," and their brute force approach to Win10 is no different. They are both evil conspiracy and stupid barreling down a hill. I don't need to have it both ways, because Microsoft already succeeded.
The difference between Google, Apple, and Microsoft is that Google and Apple right of the tin tell you what you're options are. Microsoft makes lots of bluster, hides the details until people stick a fork into their tongue, then we get the finer details. And without beating the dead horse, I could harp of evil MS slurping up data, but as I said, "always on" updates are problems. Remember nVidia's fun time with bad drivers? http://techraptor.net/content/do-not-install-the-latest-nvidia-drivers
Yeah... imagine having bad drivers, updates, and such forced on you, or even coming back to discover your computer just went stupid-er than Microsoft itself. So far, the auto-updates hasn't broken things super badly, but people are still having many issues: such as bad drivers, firmware updates breaking things, and every now and then, a blank screen of death. Security updates are another concern - it's important to patch holes as they pop up, but most malware can be faulted to stupid human error - visiting shady websites, pr0n, or suffering a lapse of lucidity and downloading with checking something can dunk a system.
I will agree my rants about the data slurping was a little "gung-ho" and constitutes a separate discussion, but I'm not fine with a system that updates without my explicit consent. When push comes to shove, I might get the LTSB for Windows 10 Enterprise so I don't need to fear having a BSOD because I got updated with crappy drivers.
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:snickers: there was that saying about people who complain about Microsoft on the one hand because they are "spying so much"... but then happily use Google or Apple ...
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I foresee system updates in 10 that re-enables data collection if found to be turned off :lol:
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Actually, it's possible to turn off automatic updates in the Pro version as well (and I mean permanently, so that it needs your explicit consent to install). It's just that it starts nagging you for them after a while, in a rather annoying manner (a fullscreen notification, essentially). There's a workaround, though, you can restrict the notification app from executing via the command prompt. Turning off automated restarts is also possible, though fairly involved (you can, with some effort, disable restarts in the scheduler and revoke system's permission to alter the setting).
While it's a bit annoying that you have to do these things at all, you only have to do them once. Spyware can also be disabled by going through the settings. Once it's configured, it's a pleasant system to use. Sure, it's the same ugly, bland "minimalist" look as Windows 8, but performance is good and it's pretty stable.
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I switched to 10 when I bought a new notebook <Asus R510j>. The worst issue I had with the new Windows was the task bar which got locked/freezed after one update <they must have screwed something hard>. I had to solve this manually via windows PowerShell and later delete one folder manually. And I noticed recently that the efficiency of the system is dropping. I mean some programs (like Firefox, Photoshop draws damn lines with 2 sec lag) started working very slowly. Funny part, I'm using the notebook mostly for work (GIS software for university stuff), so the hard drive is free of trash but it seems to be more a configuration issue. And I did not play with configuration much myself. I must figure this out.
But overall I did not have any other problems with 10 worth notice. Personally I would like to stick with 7 but my notebook had the 8 installed in stock. And since I hate 8 the choice to upgrade was rather obvious :P
There was a problem with Chrome / Firefox where you had to disable hardware acceleration on some systems if updating the graphics driver didn't fix it.
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Not sure if it warrants its own topic or not, but BASH is coming to Win 10: (EDIt: Natively!)
Here is an announcement from Microsoft Build you probably didn’t see coming: Microsoft today announced that it is bringing the GNU project’s Bash shell to Windows. Bash (Bourne Again SHell) has long been a standard on OS X and many Linux distribution systems, while the default terminal for developers on Windows is Microsoft’s own PowerShell.
More importantly than bringing the shell over to Windows, developers will now be able to write their .sh Bash scripts on Windows, as well (or use Emacs to edit their code). Microsoft noted that this will work through a new Linux subsystem in Windows 10 that Microsoft worked on with Canonical.
“The native availability of a full Ubuntu environment on Windows, without virtualization or emulation, is a milestone that defies convention and a gateway to fascinatingly unfamiliar territory,” Canonical founder Mark Shuttleworth said in a statement today. “In our journey to bring free software to the widest possible audience, this is not a moment we could have predicted. Nevertheless we are delighted to stand behind Ubuntu for Windows, committed to addressing the needs of Windows developers exploring Linux in this amazing new way, and excited at the possibilities heralded by this unexpected turn of events.”
The idea here is clearly to position Windows as a better operating system for developers who want to target other platforms besides Microsoft’s own. Under its new CEO Satya Nadella, the company has quickly embraced the idea that it wants to target all developers and platforms — not just its own. While seeing Microsoft doing anything even remotely associated with a rival operating system like Linux was unthinkable only a few years ago, the company now offers support for Linux on Azure, has open sourced numerous of its technologies and even plans to bring its flagship database product SQL Server to Linux in the near future.
Bash will arrive as part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update this summer, but it’ll be available to Windows Insiders before that. And looking ahead, Microsoft says it may bring other shells to Windows over time, too.
MS released a video which should answer a lot of questions you might have:
https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2016/P488?ocid=player
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Whether it warrants a new topic or not, we already have a topic about it: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=91779.0
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Derp.... :ick:
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Bumping this thread...
I upgraded to Windows 10 today, from 8.1. The upgrade process was smooth and most of my settings from 8.1 carried over automatically. It's pretty easy to disable the automatic updates and turn off the telemetry/spyware, but you do need to read some articles to know exactly what to do with the registry, disabling services and so on. Some obscure drivers I was using on 8.1 like VSTMIDI and Lightscribe still work fine. Initially it seemed very good. However, one big problem is that custom themes and theme patchers are much harder to get working, and are specific to different versions of Windows 10. I had Classic Shell and a custom dark theme in 8.1, and never used the Metro UI at all. The former works great, but I can't get any of the 10 themes I'm finding, or my old 8.1 theme, to fully work. I'm using a custom high contrast theme for now, which is easier on the eyes but is based on the Windows 98 theme system and is ugly compared to an msstyle-based modern theme. There is a "dark theme" option in the 10 control panel but it only affects the Metro-style programs.
Also, a lot of older games are broken in some way. Most DX8 games which worked great in 8.1 have problems, with some refusing to start at all, some only running in a window, most not working with driver-level vsync (so they run at 1000+ fps, which often changes the game speed), and some having a weird glitch with mouse movements. :no: Some of these are from GoG, so there might be hope of getting them fixed. On the flip side, the 30fps problem that affected most DX3-7 games in 8.1 has surprisingly been fixed, so several even older games actually work much better than they used to in 8.1. DX9 and up generally has no issues.
I'm surprised how different 8.1 and 10 are in terms of game compatibility. I might try a different Nvidia driver (it's the same version I had on 8.1) but don't want to spend a lot of time fixing everything. I have a separate XP install for such games (although it's a hassle to boot into), but the lack of themes is a real showstopper. If I can't get that fixed, I'm going to roll it back to 8.1.
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Did you try running those games in compat mode?
Also,
http://www.windowsxlive.net/uxtheme-multi-patcher/
for themes
and
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
for privacy settings
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Heh, I was thinking of bumping this myself. I was procrastinating until close to the free offer expiration, and after a few aborted attempts of doing things the hard way and trying to clone my 7 partition (note to world: don't cancel a partition resize while it's in progress, unless you're an idiot like me), I finally just wised up and threw a fresh install on a clean partition. And my initial reaction is quite honestly...ewww. That live-tile-infected Start menu is easily one of the ugliest UI elements I have ever seen, and I love that how even after you delete everything on there, you actually have less control over the normal-looking remainder than you did in 7. I also love the bizarre distinction between "modern apps" (i.e. babby's first programs) and normally-installed applications, which is the exact sort of settings duplication that I thought pretty much everyone *****ed about in 8. Also of note is how I turned off every telemetry-related option that came up during installation, yet have already found a few of them magically switched back on in places like Windows Update. And I'm still waiting for someone to explain how completely-flat solid colors constitute a more attractive interface than Aero did. If I ever do wind up using this as my primary OS, I'm going to need to install Classic Shell to keep my sanity, that's for damn sure.
(I guess I can give it props for how quickly it starts up, though that's immediately tempered by explorer.exe already hanging a few times. The more things change...)
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Did you try running those games in compat mode?
Also,
http://www.windowsxlive.net/uxtheme-multi-patcher/
for themes
and
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
for privacy settings
I tried that and several other programs like it, but the problem is that most theme patchers developed for a particular version of 10 (preview, RTM, TH2 or RS1) no longer work on more recent versions.
The vanilla compatibility modes don't work in most cases, and has other side effects. There may be some combination of settings/tweaks that make things work, but is time consuming to find for every game. I found that Unreal 2 and UT2004 work if you disable a specific setting in the ini, and Re-Volt strangely works if you delete one dll file, but many other games are still broken.
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If you don't like the start menu, which I don't think is ugly at all, though I dislike the overall lack of settings for it, get Classic Shell, like you probably already had for Win8/8.1. I'm probably going to do that soon, once I'm used to how the standard Win10 Start menu works, as I updated to stay current on OSes for my chosen career field of IT.
EDIT: whoops. Missed that you went straight from Win7, Mongoose. Still, get Classic Shell since you don't like the Win10 start menu.
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My biggest gripe with Win10 is the whole UI.
Ignoring the fact that it's ugly and it's very hard to tell what is a button and what is a label with a different coloured background sometimes because everything is flat, I just find the whole interface rage-inducing.
Settings are scattered all over the place AND split between two different control panels. It is practically impossible to find settings unless you already know where they are - I have to use the search thing most of the time to locate settings that would just be 2 or 3 clicks because they are so hidden and/or put under really strange categories.
And then there's stuff like the startmenu and tiles - How the hell do you edit it?! It took me half an hour to figure out where the Startup menus had gone and I still haven't figured out a quick and easy way to get to them even now when I know where they are!
Under the hood there have been some nice improvements - Fake-shutdown aside, it generally feels more responsive which is impressive given how many more services it loads on boot.
I must admit tho', until I'm forced to by compatibility reasons I will be avoiding it as it literally gain nothing from upgrading other than being forced to jump through many hoops to make the UI less painful to use.
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I wonder if a non-terrible new version will come around before compatibility becomes a problem like 7 did for XP people avoiding vista.
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My biggest gripe with Win10 is the whole UI.
Ignoring the fact that it's ugly and it's very hard to tell what is a button and what is a label with a different coloured background sometimes because everything is flat, I just find the whole interface rage-inducing.
Settings are scattered all over the place AND split between two different control panels. It is practically impossible to find settings unless you already know where they are - I have to use the search thing most of the time to locate settings that would just be 2 or 3 clicks because they are so hidden and/or put under really strange categories.
And then there's stuff like the startmenu and tiles - How the hell do you edit it?! It took me half an hour to figure out where the Startup menus had gone and I still haven't figured out a quick and easy way to get to them even now when I know where they are!
Under the hood there have been some nice improvements - Fake-shutdown aside, it generally feels more responsive which is impressive given how many more services it loads on boot.
I must admit tho', until I'm forced to by compatibility reasons I will be avoiding it as it literally gain nothing from upgrading other than being forced to jump through many hoops to make the UI less painful to use.
Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/) does more than just the Start Menu. It's not everything, but it does bring back some old elements to Windows Explorer as well.
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Yes, Classic Shell is a must-have and has lots of great features. I use a 98/2000 style menu without any tiles and with the smoke skin.
I finally got custom themes working after several hours of trying different hacks (I'm using this theme (http://virtualcustoms.net/showthread.php/70419-Windows-10-Black-Edition-TH2) modified with brighter text and with these steps (http://virtualcustoms.net/showthread.php/70555-Uxstyle-and-Theme-Signature-Bypass-for-Windows-10-TH2-AKA-1511-AKA-10586)). Things look much nicer now. I actually find 10 a bit rough and unpolished compared to 8.1. When I try to reboot, a "program manager" gets stuck and there are occasional errors that a "host process has stopped working," apparently common problems. The multiple control panels are annoying, but many important settings are not exposed in either one anyway and are only in the registry or in some cases the GodMode panel. There is also the big RS1 update coming on August 2. I have auto-updates off but it reportedly makes the theme patching process easier and like how it used to be, but may break other things.
I also managed to fix several more DX8 games. The vsync problem was fixed by forcing a global framerate limit in the driver slightly above the refresh rate, the mouse issues were caused by the "enhance pointer precision" setting, and WineD3D on Windows fixed a few games as well. There are still a few broken ones (notably Deus Ex IW), but at this point I would say it's a wash compared to 8.1, as other previously broken games are fixed and I still have XP if needed. Unless I find some major problem now, I plan to stay on 10.
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Don't mind Cyker, he is afflicted with bad taste. Windows 10 UI is great, feels great, looks great, works great and it isn't ambiguous at all, especially since the last update, where they did iron out some UI ambiguities here and there.
All in all, Windows 10 is the best windows I've ever used in my life. Which doesn't say much, but hey, it's what it is, and if the question is "shall I update from 7 to 10?", the answer is an obvious yes. It could still be better, though.
Yes, Classic Shell is a must-have and has lots of great features. I use a 98/2000 style menu without any tiles and with the smoke skin.
Someone call the police, a crime has been commited here.
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Um, you wanna try stating an opinion without denigrating another user, chief?
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I have an older computer (2010) with W7. I've read a number of people who said they upgraded to 10 from 7 on an older computer and now that computer runs slower.
Should I upgrade?
I'm slightly leaning toward keeping my computer with W7 and getting a new one with W10 when the January 2020 expiration date of W7 gets closer.
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Someone call the police, a crime has been commited here.
I got 10 for its backend features like DX12, not the UI. The normal start menu is a mess. Your own programs are mixed up with the metro apps, and the tiles are full of ads. Classic Shell still allows you to access it with one extra click if you want to.
I've now gotten the UI to a state where it's essentially the same as what I had in 7 and 8.1, but have also been trying some other themes for a change. This one (http://virtualcustoms.net/showthread.php/70481-HUD-Evolution-Windows-10-TH2-AKA-1511-AKA-10586-Only!!) is especially cool. The WinAero Tweaker program is also very useful, and is a lot like the old TweakUI.
I have an older computer (2010) with W7. I've read a number of people who said they upgraded to 10 from 7 on an older computer and now that computer runs slower.
Should I upgrade?
I'm slightly leaning toward keeping my computer with W7 and getting a new one with W10 when the January 2020 expiration date of W7 gets closer.
It may be worth it if you use it for games, but make sure there are drivers available for all of your hardware. I have a laptop from 2011 and plan to keep 7 on it. I only use it for work and don't see any clear benefit to upgrading it, while the switchable AMD/Intel graphics driver it uses may have problems.
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The Windows 10 UI is a slight improvement over 7, but a vast improvement over 8/8.1. The initial Start Menu tiles are infuriating if you have no interested in tiles (I don't, no touch screen) and you have to manually disable them. And yeah, the ones on initial install look like apps but most are ads to grab the app itself.
That said, under the hood Windows 10 is a dramatic improvement over 7, 8, and 8.1 (and it goes without saying you should not, at this point, be running anything earlier than 7 on a machine connected to the Internet. If you are, I can't help you).
The SOLE compelling reason to perhaps not upgrade from 7 to 10, and this is pretty much limited to laptops, is driver support on older machines. I recently discovered that despite the fact that my laptop had OpenGL 2.1 support in its Intel Graphics driver on Windows 7, the Windows 10 drive is capped at 1.0. No Baldur's Gate EE on my laptop. The Windows 10 display driver has a new architecture and the old display driver is NOT useable in 10, so my only workaround is a different OS. Considering my elderly laptop is not a gaming machine and I have the non-EE versions of BG1 and 2, I don't consider this a big deal. If it was my only game-playing machine, I'd be looking a dual-boot options.
So, as always, driver support is the make-or-break on upgrade. If the driver support for your machine is fine, there is no real reason not to upgrade now. And for what it's worth, the laptop (circa 2009) is faster under Windows 10 than it ever was on 7.
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Someone call the police, a crime has been commited here.
I got 10 for its backend features like DX12, not the UI. The normal start menu is a mess. Your own programs are mixed up with the metro apps, and the tiles are full of ads. Classic Shell still allows you to access it with one extra click if you want to.
I've now gotten the UI to a state where it's essentially the same as what I had in 7 and 8.1, but have also been trying some other themes for a change. This one (http://virtualcustoms.net/showthread.php/70481-HUD-Evolution-Windows-10-TH2-AKA-1511-AKA-10586-Only!!) is especially cool. The WinAero Tweaker program is also very useful, and is a lot like the old TweakUI.
I really dislike UI tweakers, but I get your point. What I don't get is this thing about ads. I don't have ads. What the hell are you doing to get ads?
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I did a clean install of 10 near the start of the year after the upgrade barfed up and not had a problem with it since, it is stable, boot times are good and not yet had any compatibility issues
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I really dislike UI tweakers, but I get your point. What I don't get is this thing about ads. I don't have ads. What the hell are you doing to get ads?
I had a "Get Office" and "Get Skype" (despite already having both installed :rolleyes:), and a few other tiles like Xbox were flashing images asking me to buy something. I removed those programs manually and changed some other settings. I guess this is to be expected for a free OS, although some of the other apps are actually useful.
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Ah yeah, I remember those. Those were indeed annoying through the about 10 seconds they existed on my UI. Yep.
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I'm still miffed that they turned Solitaire into some ****ty app. :ick:
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I'm still miffed that they turned Solitaire into some ****ty app. :ick:
yer the fact the games and calculator have to spend time loading is a little vexing given that they loaded instantly fine on win 95
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You can shut the ads off.
Metro and user apps mixed was by users' request, IIRC (want all mah programs together!).
Most things about 10 that would cause issues are fixable, and the engine under the hood makes it worth it IMHO. Plus, remember, you have 30 days to roll back in a worst-case scenario.
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You can shut the ads off, but next month, they might be back on....
Man, why even **** with this thing? It's a mess, you guys are just complaining more. I'm tired of seeing this thread. I'll just go for it instead.
I hate the start menu because everything is listed alphabetically (unintuitive and backward). The previous start menu had everything categorized by program. The best is linux having been categorized by function. I like things where i can find them quickly two ways, not just be forced to going through the whole alphabet if i sort of didn't remember enough of a program name to search for.
You can shut the ads off.
Metro and user apps mixed was by users' request, IIRC (want all mah programs together!).
Most things about 10 that would cause issues are fixable, and the engine under the hood makes it worth it IMHO. Plus, remember, you have 30 days to roll back in a worst-case scenario.
That engine under the hood isn't worth the butt plug it sports on the front of the car ramming you.
I'm sure there are going to be more apologists to paint lipstick on a pig. The spying win10 does is not overblown. It is pretty damn bad.
Win10 core data collection cannot be stopped (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/#7fb).
Privacy statement details (https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/). Eula's are always worth a read, including the ones you can't.
I personally thought the portions of how long microsoft holds onto your data to be laughable, and how responsible they claim to be with it. The eula has many fun things. As if them holding onto your data a certain amount of time actually had anything to do with the people they share it with. The people they share it with could hold onto it forever. The eula somehow tries to act as if it's in the best interest of the users.
I am always of the impression that things are just as bad as they seem. This is definitely some serious spying. That i shouldn't worry if i have nothing to hide. All humans have many things to hide. To think not means you're an idiot. I don't enjoy living in a society where i am more and more open everyday to any kind of interpretation of being a scapegoat for government and corporations out of convenience or interest.
Not many get it because they're a tard. Are you a tard? Don't answer that personally, that's how the tard detector works (ironically, as if no explanation for how it works was ever mentioned". Big brother wants to know everything about you in any way. It's all a big play by governments to attempt being omniscient. I just reached real far right there that i'm sure people will think i'm nuts. You know how many things track you daily whether you own them or not. And i'm sure people think i'm nuts now, but think how many devices are spying on you in an increasing number everyday. And then think about the people who let it happen, and then the people in control pushing for more. And how many other countries are in on this.
"But, this is microsoft we're talking about here" right and who are they selling the data too? They collect it for a reason, one of those is displaying ads and sending you promotions, not all are microsofts ads and promotions, and microsoft does run a business even...one sided morons.
I will not apologize for my snippiness. But, running win10 is surely a bad idea if you want to further aid being persecuted and or in jail for something done at home that could easily be misconstrued (man am i glad i don't own a tv that listens to me; how many conversations are said while watching tv?). Very sure footage of a parent spanking their kid after a young age mess up would cause the uproar of child abuse. I am not shying away from the realization of living in a populous of endless scapegoats and excuses for the government and corporations. In fact, a system of automation for spying run by the unjust is evil.
This is all very real, and apologists are having a harder time shoving the ever growing mountain under a couch (for a while now, there's been a sofa on everest).
First they get everyone numb on their phones to spying, then they same on more personal devices? Of course. Personally i don't run android, or the g-apps store. There's plenty i'm an offender of. But, at least being enlightened and being wise with my choices where i do actually have a say, sure says more than others.
No one say you don't have a choice. You could get a mac, or run unix or linux. Personally I wouldn't run macos. Code that has been publicly audited functions the way that the public specifies. Again, one sided morons would like to say that somehow the source code for openvpn being publicly available will take down my vpn. To which i say retarded thinking; just because you have the source code doesn't mean you have the keys to the kingdom. In the area of openvpn you certainly don't. Have fun defeating my diffie hellman made by different software that still wouldn't give you the keys.
In b4 people ask me stupid questions, i think i addressed plenty for people to read and not fully grasp. Seriously, I have been asked why i lock my car, why i lock the front door of where i live, why locks were even invented, what's the point of theories if they aren't 100% accurate in real life, why good things happen to bad people and bad things to good, and even why despite a broken window why i will still lock that door. Most people i encounter are dummies growing on a daily basis, i hope that celebrity gossip and football are that good.
Throw it at me. Windows 10 sucks, you're a deceived idiot if you think you can tame it to play the way you want.
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That's a bunch of things right there man. A real bunch. Of things.
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-snip-
Le sigh.
Alright. You might have a point.
So you are not ever going to run a Microsoft OS again? Cause from what I hear, they're patching Windows 7 & 8/8.1 to do the same thing.
Anyways, even being paranoid enough to not allow all sorts of spying from smart devices, FB, MS, etc etc -- that puts you on a list too, I'm sure. The people paranoid enough to categorize the entire populace based on data they illicitly obtained, will probably categorize someone who eludes their efforts as more of a threat than someone with known terrorist ties.
Want to fix it? Vote in people like Rand Paul, who actually know what the 4th Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text) in the Bill of Rights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights) (<-read that if any of you haven't, it's good stuff) means, and support it.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Companies spying, well, I odn't know what they are really going to do about it. All they want to do is get money, and the best way to do that is to offer you things they you might want, and to increase their chances of that, they need to know more about you.
However, the concerning thing is, the government would be very interested in access to that some data, and wouldn't have much against taking it, either covertly (NSA scraping it from the wires or device installed in data center) or overtly (secret court order to fork over data).
Seriously, the government can't do anything to 'stop terrorism' using their current methods because they're collecting too much data for anyone to react to fast enough. I'm thinking it is (or eventually will be) more for targeted blackmail of persons of interest, and to try to manipulate the attitudes of the populace to suit their wants. Yeah, that's the tinfoil talking. But if it's not true, it's not because government is benevolent, it's because it's inept. Power breeds corruption, unfortunately.
/end ranting ramble
And yes, I use Windows 10. Ads don't bother me. Government does, but the solution for that is at the ballot box (and praying it doesn't ever come to anything more than that <- HEY, I'm on a list!)
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While I'm sympathetic to some level of paranoia, there are limits that are hardcoded by sanity itself.
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Let's put it this way, I'm paranoid, but I also realize that safeguards are in-place (both in the mechanics of government, and in the sense that it'd ultimately be self-defeating) to prevent hard-core government overreach. I'm under no illusion that a worrisome number of officials would just love to go all power-crazy if given the chance with a low enough risk factor, however.
It's common sense. If you're a bullying asshat, and like shoving people around, but you have enough self-control and patience to realize you can't overtly do that (or you end up in jail), what do you do to feed your hobby? You get into a position of power, of course. Hence positions of responsibility will always have a disproportionate amount of asshats in them.
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Win10 core data collection cannot be stopped (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/#7fb).
What they really mean is that Microsoft doesn't provide an "official" method of doing it. These things can be changed if you make a little effort. Look up "Destroy Windows Spying" and other similar tools, which even add the all the Microsoft telemetry servers to the hosts file. I didn't feel the need to go that far, but did shut down some services and scheduled tasks. Also, even at its worst Microsoft is doing what Apple and Google have done for years, and some Linux distributions are going the same way as well.
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Yeees, and what all these corporations have been doing for years is to build this giganormous megarobot eye that will control every single one of us and eventually directly dictate through our minds what we should think and do! Don't be naive! This is what they're doing to us! Wait. No. Not the needle again. Not the NEEEEDLE
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Win10 core data collection cannot be stopped (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/#7fb).
What they really mean is that Microsoft doesn't provide an "official" method of doing it. These things can be changed if you make a little effort. Look up "Destroy Windows Spying" and other similar tools, which even add the all the Microsoft telemetry servers to the hosts file. I didn't feel the need to go that far, but did shut down some services and scheduled tasks. Also, even at its worst Microsoft is doing what Apple and Google have done for years, and some Linux distributions are going the same way as well.
Does O&O ShutUp10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10) do all of that? 'cause it's pretty convenient & easy-to-use.
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Christ how can ANYONE be placated by the "it's been happening already so it's fine now" argument? THIS is how they get away with pushing ever more intrusiveness on us, and the reason that we don't have a choice leading to the other argument of "well that's just the way it is, get used to it".
**** that. I'll keep using my 2006 XP laptop.
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HLP appears to be in serious danger of running out of tinfoil.
Here are your options:
1. Use an out-dated version of Windows with security flaws you can drive a truck through.
2. Use MacOS, which does more or less what Windows 10 does.
3. Use Linux, which does slightly less of what Windows and MacOS do but still has support issues and is moving that way anyway.
4. Use an OS that doesn't support the majority of end-user applications.
5. Use Windows 10 and customize its privacy settings.
Furthermore, if data exists in a digital format on a device that is physically or electronically accessible:
- Any bad guy that wants it can get it with a sufficient amount of time investment.
- Any government that wants it can do the same.
- Your own government can get it with a trivial amount of effort in the form of a warrant if they believe you guilty of wrongdoing.
- The dumbass crackhead down the street who failed elementary school math can get the machine with it on it.
Computer security is not about making things impossible; like most security issues, it's about sufficient hardening of a target to make it annoying and time-consuming as possible for an attacker to get what you don't want them to get.
Personally, I could give a **** if Google and Microsoft collect parts of my browsing history in aggregated data. I ESPECIALLY find it laughable that people worry about government access to your data. You are a bacterium on a dirt-covered needle in one of several billion haystacks. Nobody cares about you. You are an anonymous number. Privacy is important - I do my utmost to protect mine - but it is all about risk assessment versus inconvenience. You have a far greater risk of losing something important to someone who will do things you do not want them to do with it by using outdated software in some crazy notion of privacy protection when 0days are a dime a dozen than you ever will through anonymized data aggregation. That's just simple math.
On the other hand, if you (general you) don't want to use Windows 10 because <insert reason here>, fill your boots. Affects me not one whit. The purpose of this thread was to answer a question for users who hadn't made up their mind, not convince true believers to recycle their hats.
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You might have a point.
So you are not ever going to run a Microsoft OS again? Cause from what I hear, they're patching Windows 7 & 8/8.1 to do the same thing.
I do have a point, i have expanded my thinking toward what this spying and infrastructure are and use for. I haven't been a windows user for a long time. I don't just run any of the distributions of linux out there either. I run my own.
Anyways, even being paranoid enough to not allow all sorts of spying from smart devices, FB, MS, etc etc -- that puts you on a list too, I'm sure. The people paranoid enough to categorize the entire populace based on data they illicitly obtained, will probably categorize someone who eludes their efforts as more of a threat than someone with known terrorist ties.
You call me paranoid while you are void and numb. Thanks for the threat that i might be on a list. The idea is that we're all on the same list. Sorry you might not like to hear what i have to say simply because it is not popular. But it is true.
Want to fix it? Vote in people like Rand Paul, who actually know what the 4th Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text) in the Bill of Rights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights) (<-read that if any of you haven't, it's good stuff) means, and support it.
Voting doesn't help. You tend to notice this when the new person in office after new person in office keeps upgrading and oiling the big spying aparatus.
Companies spying, well, I odn't know what they are really going to do about it. All they want to do is get money, and the best way to do that is to offer you things they you might want, and to increase their chances of that, they need to know more about you.
Companies want money, but a lot of the time they aren't offering us what we want. Products that do what we want them to do. You're reasoning for the inclusive spying in anything just because of the money is very short sighted.
However, the concerning thing is, the government would be very interested in access to that some data, and wouldn't have much against taking it, either covertly (NSA scraping it from the wires or device installed in data center) or overtly (secret court order to fork over data).
I differ. The government has access to all of that data.
Seriously, the government can't do anything to 'stop terrorism' using their current methods because they're collecting too much data for anyone to react to fast enough. I'm thinking it is (or eventually will be) more for targeted blackmail of persons of interest, and to try to manipulate the attitudes of the populace to suit their wants. Yeah, that's the tinfoil talking. But if it's not true, it's not because government is benevolent, it's because it's inept. Power breeds corruption, unfortunately.
They could react faster if they wanted. The artificial war on terrorism is to treat us all as potential terrorists.
And yes, I use Windows 10. Ads don't bother me. Government does, but the solution for that is at the ballot box (and praying it doesn't ever come to anything more than that <- HEY, I'm on a list!)
The way you talk, dismiss, reduce, and ignore leads many to find you contradictory. You want to be deceived, and be deceived.
HLP appears to be in serious danger of running out of tinfoil.
Here are your options:
1. Use an out-dated version of Windows with security flaws you can drive a truck through.
2. Use MacOS, which does more or less what Windows 10 does.
3. Use Linux, which does slightly less of what Windows and MacOS do but still has support issues and is moving that way anyway.
4. Use an OS that doesn't support the majority of end-user applications.
5. Use Windows 10 and customize its privacy settings.
Furthermore, if data exists in a digital format on a device that is physically or electronically accessible:
- Any bad guy that wants it can get it with a sufficient amount of time investment.
- Any government that wants it can do the same.
- Your own government can get it with a trivial amount of effort in the form of a warrant if they believe you guilty of wrongdoing.
- The dumbass crackhead down the street who failed elementary school math can get the machine with it on it.
Computer security is not about making things impossible; like most security issues, it's about sufficient hardening of a target to make it annoying and time-consuming as possible for an attacker to get what you don't want them to get.
Personally, I could give a **** if Google and Microsoft collect parts of my browsing history in aggregated data. I ESPECIALLY find it laughable that people worry about government access to your data. You are a bacterium on a dirt-covered needle in one of several billion haystacks. Nobody cares about you. You are an anonymous number. Privacy is important - I do my utmost to protect mine - but it is all about risk assessment versus inconvenience. You have a far greater risk of losing something important to someone who will do things you do not want them to do with it by using outdated software in some crazy notion of privacy protection when 0days are a dime a dozen than you ever will through anonymized data aggregation. That's just simple math.
On the other hand, if you (general you) don't want to use Windows 10 because <insert reason here>, fill your boots. Affects me not one whit. The purpose of this thread was to answer a question for users who hadn't made up their mind, not convince true believers to recycle their hats.
Is there anything else you have to say that isn't just the maligned usual FUD?
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Dude, if there is a source of FUD here, it's you.
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Never antagonize a religious person, they might end up becoming radicalized and that's something we all want to avoid in current year.
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Personally, I could give a **** if Google and Microsoft collect parts of my browsing history in aggregated data. I ESPECIALLY find it laughable that people worry about government access to your data. You are a bacterium on a dirt-covered needle in one of several billion haystacks. Nobody cares about you. You are an anonymous number. Privacy is important - I do my utmost to protect mine - but it is all about risk assessment versus inconvenience. You have a far greater risk of losing something important to someone who will do things you do not want them to do with it by using outdated software in some crazy notion of privacy protection when 0days are a dime a dozen than you ever will through anonymized data aggregation. That's just simple math.
I just find it extremely uncomfortable seeing everything I do tracked, packaged, sold off to advertisers and used to leverage me into buying things. I can't browse Youtube outside incognito mode simply because my skin crawls when I see 'recommended videos' clearly based off something I watched the other day. I have very little interest in using an entire operating system built around doing that.
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Win10 core data collection cannot be stopped (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/#7fb).
What they really mean is that Microsoft doesn't provide an "official" method of doing it. These things can be changed if you make a little effort. Look up "Destroy Windows Spying" and other similar tools, which even add the all the Microsoft telemetry servers to the hosts file. I didn't feel the need to go that far, but did shut down some services and scheduled tasks. Also, even at its worst Microsoft is doing what Apple and Google have done for years, and some Linux distributions are going the same way as well.
Does O&O ShutUp10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10) do all of that? 'cause it's pretty convenient & easy-to-use.
This tool is quite nice. I used it turn off a few more things. It also does things that the OS already supports in the sense of having registry flags for it (not necessarily control panel options), while DWS does things like modifying the hosts file or deleting programs. One thing I'm reading is that major upgrades, like RS1 coming out next week, may reset some of these options, so they should be checked periodically.
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Personally, I could give a **** if Google and Microsoft collect parts of my browsing history in aggregated data. I ESPECIALLY find it laughable that people worry about government access to your data. You are a bacterium on a dirt-covered needle in one of several billion haystacks. Nobody cares about you. You are an anonymous number. Privacy is important - I do my utmost to protect mine - but it is all about risk assessment versus inconvenience. You have a far greater risk of losing something important to someone who will do things you do not want them to do with it by using outdated software in some crazy notion of privacy protection when 0days are a dime a dozen than you ever will through anonymized data aggregation. That's just simple math.
I just find it extremely uncomfortable seeing everything I do tracked, packaged, sold off to advertisers and used to leverage me into buying things. I can't browse Youtube outside incognito mode simply because my skin crawls when I see 'recommended videos' clearly based off something I watched the other day. I have very little interest in using an entire operating system built around doing that.
You can set firefox to delete cookies every time you close the browser, that should get rid of that.
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I just find it extremely uncomfortable seeing everything I do tracked, packaged, sold off to advertisers and used to leverage me into buying things. I can't browse Youtube outside incognito mode simply because my skin crawls when I see 'recommended videos' clearly based off something I watched the other day. I have very little interest in using an entire operating system built around doing that.
I hear you. I use browser extensions like NoScript, AdBlock, Privacybadger, and HTTPSEverywhere. I turn on Do Not Track. I clear cookies and browsing history. I customize security settings in every application I install. I run EMET. I've combed through every Windows 10 personalization and privacy setting and adjusted everything I'm not comfortable with.
It's possible to be security conscious, prudent, and retain application compatibility (and security fixes!) without crossing into the realm of irrational. For any "regular" end user, the risk-reward is always going to be a lot better on the latest OS receiving the latest security patches than it is on older hardware. If you don't have a corporate security team behind you and a compelling need to remain on it due to driver/application support, staying on Windows 7 is a really bad idea at this point. Windows 8/8.1 doubly so because it's simply a terrible UI experience.
The majority of the user-specific data collection in Windows 10 can be readily turned off. The rest, at least from my perspective, isn't really worth getting worked up about at this point.
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Dude, if there is a source of FUD here, it's you.
Linux is better than the popular misinterpretations of it that help prevent it's adoption
Never antagonize a religious person, they might end up becoming radicalized and that's something we all want to avoid in current year.
Who says i'm religious?
I just wonder if there's anything more than ignorance and dismissal you guys have to throw at me.
I know it's about in one ear, out the other. Are people this concerned with that much of a preference of hearing only what they want to hear that it keeps them from evolving a thought to form a what if possibility to see reality through many different scenarios to provide understanding.
Spying on everybody 24/7 is more than just about the money. I choose not to use an OS where spying is the main center piece of it's function.
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Dude, if there is a source of FUD here, it's you.
Linux is better than the popular misinterpretations of it that help prevent it's adoption
I once tried to get a build of Ubuntu running on my old ****box Dell just to get a stupid penguin item in Team Fortress 2. Many hours of frustration and pulled-out hairs later, the basic desktop environment still ran like a snail because (as far as I could tell) my video card drivers never managed to play nice. Once was enough for me.
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I know it's about in one ear, out the other.
"Nobody listens to me! The fools!"
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I hear you. I use browser extensions like NoScript, AdBlock, Privacybadger, and HTTPSEverywhere. I turn on Do Not Track. I clear cookies and browsing history. I customize security settings in every application I install. I run EMET. I've combed through every Windows 10 personalization and privacy setting and adjusted everything I'm not comfortable with.
Sure. And Windows 10 crosses a(n entirely subjective and arbitrary) line for me, because I've used Facebook and I know how the "we've made some small updates to the privacy settings" dance goes, and because it can actually index all my files and searches rather than my interactions with one ****ty website.
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In a world where Kickass Torrents got closed down cause someone checked their Facebook page and then logged on to iTunes, perhaps that's not as a paranoid a distinction as some people seem to believe.
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I hear you. I use browser extensions like NoScript, AdBlock, Privacybadger, and HTTPSEverywhere. I turn on Do Not Track. I clear cookies and browsing history. I customize security settings in every application I install. I run EMET. I've combed through every Windows 10 personalization and privacy setting and adjusted everything I'm not comfortable with.
Sure. And Windows 10 crosses a(n entirely subjective and arbitrary) line for me, because I've used Facebook and I know how the "we've made some small updates to the privacy settings" dance goes, and because it can actually index all my files and searches rather than my interactions with one ****ty website.
You know you can disable the indexing service (http://windowsreport.com/indexing-windows-8/), right? Used to be one of the first things I did on Windows XP (for performance reasons).
In a world where Kickass Torrents got closed down cause someone checked their Facebook page and then logged on to iTunes, perhaps that's not as a paranoid a distinction as some people seem to believe.
Excellent point.
In other news, I've read that the Anniversary Update will remove certain group policies and registry keys' effects (http://www.ghacks.net/2016/07/28/microsoft-removes-policies-windows-10-pro/) (you can set the option, but they will have no effect) in W10 Pro, leaving only Enterprise, & Education editions able to shut off these features.
Microsoft removes policies from Windows 10 Pro
by Martin Brinkmann on July 28, 2016 in Windows - Last Update:July 29, 2016 125
Professional editions of Windows 10 ship with the Group Policy Editor that enables users and administrators to make changes to the default configuration of the operating system.
Up until now, policy availability was more or less identical for all professional versions of Windows 10. Turns out, this is no longer the case when the Windows 10 Anniversary Update is released (http://www.ghacks.net/2016/03/31/windows-10-anniversary-update/).
Some policies contain a note stating that they only apply to certain editions of Windows 10, with Windows 10 Pro not being listed as one of them.
Note: This setting only applies to Enterprise, Education, and Server SKUs
Furthermore, the corresponding Registry keys are not working either anymore which means that Pro users have no option to make changes to features affected by the change.
Affected Policies
The policies are still listed when you open the Group Policy Editor on Windows 10 Pro or another affected edition of Windows 10.
They do contain the note stating that the policy only applies to the listed editions of Windows 10, and modifying the policy has no affect on editions not listed there.
Turn off Microsoft consumer experiences
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Cloud Content
The big one is the Turn off Microsoft consumer experiences policy (http://www.ghacks.net/2016/03/02/turn-off-microsoft-consumer-experience/). We have talked about the feature previously. It powers among other things the installation of third-party apps and extra links on Windows 10.
So, if you did not want Candy Crush to be pushed to your operating system, you'd disable the policy to block that from happening.
Do not show Windows Tips
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Cloud Content
The change prevents Windows 10 Pro users from enabling the policy to block third-party application installations or links.
Windows 10 may show tips to the user of the operating system that explain how to use Windows 10, or how to use certain features of the operating system.
The release of Windows 10 Version 1607 restricts the policy to Enterprise and Education SKUs.
One option to at least limit the tips is to set the Telemetry level to Basic or below. You find the policy under Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Data Collection and Preview Builds > Allow Telemetry
Lock screen
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Control Panel > Personalization
The lock screen displays information such as a clock or notifications to the user of the operating system.
The policy "do not display the lock screen" allowed you to turn the lock screen off so that the logon screen is displayed right away.
The change blocks the policy on Windows 10 Pro systems, as it is only available on Enterprise, Education and Server SKUs after the Anniversary Update.
Similarly, "Prevent changing log screen and logon image" and"Force a specific default lock screen and logon image" are also no longer available on Windows 10 Pro devices.
Disable all apps from Windows Store
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components> Store
The policy allows you to disable all applications from Windows Store. It blocks the launching of all store apps that came pre-installed or were downloaded before the policy was set. Also, it will turn of Windows Store.
The setting applies only to Enterprise and Education editions of Windows 10 once the Anniversary Update is installed.
Closing Words
The changes take away functionality that was previously a part of the Windows 10 Pro edition. It is without doubt an annoyance, considering that Pro users have no option anymore to disable third-party applications, links or Store apps in general on Windows 10 once the Anniversary Update is installed.
Considering that many Pro users won't be able to get Enterprise or Education versions of Windows 10, it is anything but customer friendly.
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Ah, looks like AE looses App-V and UE-V (http://searchenterprisedesktop.techtarget.com/blog/Windows-Enterprise-Desktop/Microsoft-lets-down-Windows-10-Pro-users) (User Environment Virtualization) as well.
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Can we still "reserve" and not install windows 10, or do I have to have it permanently installed by the end of today to get (and keep) it free? If I can opt-in so to speak today and not install it until I actually have to, that would be super.
Assuming the mere act of claiming it doesn't open me up to the update pushes and spying right away whether or not the OS is actually installed.
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Microsoft are now stripping functionality out of some versions of Win10 and putting it in more expensive ones. (http://www.ghacks.net/2016/07/28/microsoft-removes-policies-windows-10-pro/)
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No one will be able to turn off cortana on the anniversary update of win10. (http://www.pcworld.com/article/3100358/windows/you-cant-turn-off-cortana-in-the-windows-10-anniversary-update.html)
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The lock screen change sounds annoying, but I don't seem to get that screen even though I never set that option. In any case, I'm sure people will come up with hacks to restore these features. I don't plan to use any of these major updates until at least 6 months have passed and people have dealt with issues like this.
On another note, I set up a few other tools for making old stuff work: WinHelp (harder to set up than it was on 8.1 and needs third party tools), Coolsoft MIDI Mapper (lets me have the Yamaha SYXG50 as the default device for all programs, just like XP), and Application Compatibility Toolkit 5.5 (quite hard to find; the 5.6 version on the MS website doesn't work).
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From a user note on the stripping functionality: frustrating that they'd actually remove functionality, but none of those particular GP settings are anything I've ever bothered using (if anyone out there is wondering if they'd need them). It appears, from looking at the list of things removed, that this move is less about screwing Pro users and more about forcing businesses/schools to actually use Enterprise/Educational instead of cheaping out with Pro licenses.
On Cortana: actually, you can still shut her off: http://www.windowscentral.com/you-can-disable-cortana-windows-10
For those of us using local accounts who don't want the full Cortana capabilities, we should be able to continue with that approach.
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I am not going to necessarily say it was strange of ms not to have functional parity with ios and android cortana versions as it is usually understood that win10 could have gone through a few more release previews before release.
That does explain cortana use and intent better now. But, my thinking comes in here like this. Is it like a lot of other apps that claim to be non-functional but are still very much so? Cortana was designed as the new windows search engine and computer assistant. It takes in keyboard and audio cues. Also, cortana is only part of the win10 spying problem.
Just because it's not signed in doesn't mean it's not still gathering and broadcasting info.
I recommend uninstalling cortana. (http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-uninstall-and-remove-cortana-in-windows-10/) Install a third party start menu afterward.
Fun stuff time....
Working under the theorum that spying still happens and is cortana just not simply sending off random statistics to ms anyway. This article i quoted about uninstalling cortana had an interesting quote from someone in the comments, "Fayetracker has proved the link between searchui.exe and “edge”. As a result, desactivate Cortana won’t stop the leakage of our computer’s information toward microsoft servers … the culprit is “Edge”".
While i admit that is juicy, i have yet to find "fayetracker" on the net, and his "supporting" research. So far, all i find is this quote all over google at different web sites posted. Anything defining has yet to pop up :pimp:
So far, i am of the opinion that any of us willing to deal with win10 in it's post installation configuration, whether to just personalize, or defeat spying, that perhaps people just enjoy the challenge.
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Seems like the easiest solution might be just an IP blocker always running with a Microsoft list. I wonder if I can find one for PeerBlock. The P2P lists probably cover it, but I'd rather have something specific to MS spying for when I don't want to unnecessarily lock down other stuff.
Win 10 is now installed on my laptop because despite giving the impression it was just downloading the files and I would get to choose to install it later, I started the download, went out, and came back to a windows 10 welcome and configuration screen. It does look a little nicer than 8.1. I'll play with it more when I have time to do the research on privacy settings. For now, I have turned everything that it asked about in initial setup off except smartscreen filter. Annoyances so far are the fact it reset all my default programs and lost the network setup to my win 7 desktop. When trying to get there manually, it asked for username/password, which I have not set up on my network so I don't know WTF is going on there.
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It appears, from looking at the list of things removed, that this move is less about screwing Pro users and more about forcing businesses/schools to actually use Enterprise/Educational instead of cheaping out with Pro licenses.
You say this like it's a reasonable technical decision rather than simply scummy profiteering.
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Whatever it is, it's terrible business strategy.
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It appears, from looking at the list of things removed, that this move is less about screwing Pro users and more about forcing businesses/schools to actually use Enterprise/Educational instead of cheaping out with Pro licenses.
Fun way of saying it's not about what it's about; screwing pro users.
Like you said, this move is less about screwing pro users, and more about getting businesses/schools to use enterprise/educational licenses instead of cheaping out with pro licenses.
I understand what you're talking about, ms needed to find a way to monetize enterprise better, by screwing pro users.
With all the quarterly earnings coming in at the end of the year, that'll really get ms's blood pumping in an ever increasing frenzy for their goal of being the first to be completely risen among the global community (and, man are they in some serious competition with phone giants and banks on a similar path). It will be by the stroke of every rate increase, that they achieve their objective, to blow their load all over the world covering everybody and everything with it. Almost everyone will nary have a realization of what actually happened, other than this thought in the back of their head that they are somehow guzzling. They will finance the cigarette afterward similarly.
I once tried to get a build of Ubuntu running on my old ****box Dell just to get a stupid penguin item in Team Fortress 2. Many hours of frustration and pulled-out hairs later, the basic desktop environment still ran like a snail because (as far as I could tell) my video card drivers never managed to play nice. Once was enough for me.
1. Like any software, choose stability. Ubuntu means only the lts releases. Debian means only debian stable. Fedora means centos or redhat. Windows means wait to till sp1 comes out, etc. As with stability comes things working as advertised more of the time.
2. Check hardware compatibility, it is a different os.
3. Sorry that's how your first time went, that would discourage most. I and many others had similar problems with 6 month release model distributions (they are common for immature features over stability), it was found better not to use them (also where a lot of fud comes from). New users certainly do not want to install ubuntu and are much better off trying pclinuxos (http://www.pclinuxos.com) or mx linux (http://www.mepiscommunity.org). Just as much as ubuntu has been a waste of time for you is as much as it has been for others.
2007 was when i dropped ubuntu for reasons that installing the non-free nvidia graphic driver disabled ethernet (just stupid ****), which meant i was stuck with a non-accelerated slow desktop to have internet. I hopped ship right there to mepis (it is unfortunately discontinued). Then i constructed my own distribution that i run on all of my devices since i got tired of being at the whims of everyone elses release schedule, end of support life cycle, and minimizing post install configuration. The reason i never dropped linux in spite of some malfunctions was because i greatly appreciated the many extra capabilities that windows didn't have, or somehow still doesn't have, a lot of it is free, the possibilities of what could be done were great, and i was having a lot of fun.
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With all the quarterly earnings coming in at the end of the year, that'll really get ms's blood pumping in an ever increasing frenzy for their goal of being the first to be completely risen among the global community (and, man are they in some serious competition with phone giants and banks on a similar path). It will be by the stroke of every rate increase, that they achieve their objective, to blow their load all over the world covering everybody and everything with it. Almost everyone will nary have a realization of what actually happened, other than this thought in the back of their head that they are somehow guzzling. They will finance the cigarette afterward similarly.
I am genuinely at a loss for words.
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I guess you enjoyed the joke :lol:
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Nah, see, jokes are funny.
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Stop being so jokenormative Admiral, S 99 was just transjoking there into creepykin.