Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pegasus V on August 07, 2002, 09:48:27 pm
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I was curious how much it costs to actually make a game. Does anyone know how much games cost to make? Perhaps even FS, FS2?
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A senior programmer gets paid $400,000 cdn a year
a first level programmer gets paid $70,000 cdn a year
Mix and match how many programmers you need of what level, throw in some graphic designers... figure out how long your game will take to make...
its probably around $10-12m cdn, maybe more
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$400 000? That seems high. where did you hear that?
:confused:
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Canadian.
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400,000 dollars Canadian=4 bucks American *snickers* Sorry, I had to say that :p
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Originally posted by TheVirtu
400,000 dollars Canadian=4 bucks American *snickers* Sorry, I had to say that :p
No you didnt...
The Canadian dollar hovers around 60-65 cents american...
400000 is somewhere around 248000 USD...
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That still sounds rather high; for example, even the top faculty positions in a world-leading university aren't going to pay over $200000...
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... But the game programmers make friends with the guys who write the accounting programs...;)
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$400,000 Canadian? I've never heard of a top guy making much more than half that (assuming half that == $100,000 US).
If you're a rookie, an entry level position as a game programmer is probably going to bring you in significantly less than an equivalent job in the non-game industry. Not sure what it is these days, but be prepared to start well below $50k.
On the up side, if you work out and prove yourself, you will almost certainly see a much more dramatic rise in salary over the first few years than you would elsewhere.
These days, a typical 2 year full-house project probably costs $4+ million. Really deluxe budgets fall in the $8+ million range. The sky's the limit of course - I can't even imagine what the budget was for MGS2 or any Final Fantasy installment.
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Originally posted by daveb
These days, a typical 2 year full-house project probably costs $4+ million. Really deluxe budgets fall in the $8+ million range. The sky's the limit of course - I can't even imagine what the budget was for MGS2 or any Final Fantasy installment.
Thanks Dave! I was hoping you would reply.
I wonder how much money some games actually make. Specifically FS2. Did FS2 make much of a profit?
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Originally posted by Pegasus V
Thanks Dave! I was hoping you would reply.
I wonder how much money some games actually make. Specifically FS2. Did FS2 make much of a profit?
IM guessing that the poorly advertised game didn't make much, considering there is no plans for FS3. Usually a successful game has a sequel (or is held out long enough to drain every last dollar from it before the sequel is released)
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I wonder how much money some games actually make.
It depends how you look at it. If you mean "how much money does the average game make, taking into account _all_ games", the answer is - most of them lose money. Tons of games come out, most sell poorly. If you release a game that sells 50,000 units, that's well above average. I'd guess most sell <= 10,000. A "successful" game breaks the 100,000 mark. If you hit 200,000 its a wildly successful game. 500,000 and you're a bona-fide mega hit. Precious few games ever break a million, even on the console.
Now, if you mean "how much money do the games I actually hear about make" that's a different story. Meaning, games that will likely sell 100,000+. Figure $50 bucks a pop, @4 million for development - and you're looking at somewhere around the break even point. Sell 250,000 and you've made a handy profit (hardly any games reach this mark). 500,000+ and its Scrooge McDuck time. Hit Blizzard or Square numbers and you've got funding for the next 10 projects.
The games industry is pretty rough. You don't hear about all the failures (except the high profile ones) and all the companies that fold before they ship _anything_.
There aren't many Squares or Blizzards (or Volitions for that matter).
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Originally posted by vadar_1
IM guessing that the poorly advertised game didn't make much, considering there is no plans for FS3. Usually a successful game has a sequel (or is held out long enough to drain every last dollar from it before the sequel is released)
In my local Harvey Norman computer store, FS2 still cost $Aus89.95 early last year, which was its release price three years ago. Late last year, it had come down to $Aus54.50. Now (last time I looked = month ago) it's still about $Aus44.95. Seeing as FS2 is pretty much in competition with FS1 (cos there's hardly any space sims out there), you'd think it would be doing well. It's the best in its market. But it didn't :(
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Originally posted by daveb
500,000+ and its Scrooge McDuck time. Hit Blizzard or Square numbers and you've got funding for the next 10 projects.
Thanks Dave. There's some interesting figures in there.
Do you know how FS2 faired?
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Hmm, those figures kinda match what I had imagined, in fact. My project for the "Computer Enterprising" (or whatever it is called in english) course on college was for a space sim, and it ended up with a total cost of around 1.5 million, but that's because the cost of personnel in general is significantly cheaper here in Brazil.
I actually got the thing approved by the board of - real - investors that were evaluating the projects (as first of the class, selected by all of the investors). Shame the companies they represented had a policy that dictated they couldn't invest on games. :p
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Thanks for that info, I too found it very interesting.
After working on a game project over the past 16 months, I agree that it's a rough industry - a lot of work for no monetary reward in my case, love isn't always enough to keep people going (though I guess it is in my case - that and a hell of a lot of free time). And if such a project ends in failure be it a collapsing company or low sales, then it can really drag people down.
But, as long as people demand the product I suppose there will be people willing to jump in and try to provide it. Still don't know if it's a career for me yet...
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sloccount estimated that FS2 cost $5 million in programmer time to develope - that is just the program
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If you're looking to get into the industry, my advice would be to do some serious homework on all potential employers before signing on. There's more than one big name company that has a reputation as being a total sweatshop. There are also plenty of companies that make many games that sell well, but have no bonus program for employees. But most importantly find about the company itself. Where are they headed? What have they released? What's their plan for staying alive? What's the experience level of their teams? Keep a sharp eye for the warning signs (like, if you put in for a job as "rookie, graphics architect" and they hire you - run away very very fast). As a general rule of thumb I'd say avoid the large megacorporation companies, but that doesn't necessarily hold across the board.
For some extremely jaded insight into the industry, check out www.fatbabies.com for an idea of the kind of fiascos that aren't uncommon.
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I'd like to work for volition in 4 years :D but i know that's not going to happen because DAVE HATES ME!
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Originally posted by daveb
If you're looking to get into the industry, my advice would be to do some serious homework on all potential employers before signing on.
I'm applying for a job at Electronic Arts, heard anything bad about them?
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Like I said, check out www.fatbabies.com. (and of course, take it with a very large grain of salt). I don't think it would be appropriate for me to make comments (positive or negative) on specific companies.
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EA likes to kill highly profitable gaming series *cought*Wing Commander*cough*
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System Shock 2's production cost was over 1.7 million dollars, they sold around 220,000 copies, and the profit wasn't high enough to make it worth it (Looking Glass closed a few months after SS2 release).
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I have to agree with that Kazan. :(
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Lots of interesting information in this thread. But if most games do not make much of a profit, how come the game industry is still thriving with new companies coming in all the time?
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Originally posted by CP5670
Lots of interesting information in this thread. But if most games do not make much of a profit, how come the game industry is still thriving with new companies coming in all the time?
Because you don't hear about all those companies that don't go through their first couple of years. ;)
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Bah.... if i want to work in the games industry (and I do), I'll have to leave Scotland after I complete my degree.... i think we only have 2 or 3 relatively big names here Eidos (I think) and codemasters.....
from what I've heard, in the Uk the average salary for a beginner in the games industry (with a good Honours Degree in Computer Science) is about ~£20k. Compare that with the ~£35k average from graduates from my course working in industry, and it;'s a hell of a sacrifice. worth it, i feel, to be honest, but a pain in the arse.
Oh well, roll on 3rd year.....