Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: karajorma on February 11, 2017, 08:18:20 pm

Title: How to handle player choices?
Post by: karajorma on February 11, 2017, 08:18:20 pm
A question by hack-wizard (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=93165.msg1841507#msg1841507) brought up an interesting question in mission design. How should you present choices to a player?



To be honest, maybe I'm rather old school but I'm not a fan of using the promptbox to present a choice to the player. I tend to feel it's too easy to end up in a situation where you're giving the player a dialogue like this....

Quote
What do you want to do?
1. Save tech transport.
2. Save refugees.

Which I don't much like. Yeah you can change the dialogue so that it's not so obvious what you're doing but you have rather obviously given the player two choices. I would handle things in different ways.

1. Make it an SOC style loop choice. - We have the controls already to offer the player a choice between two missions. You'd simply write a briefing that allows you to volunteer for a mission to save the refugees. If the player didn't, then they'd go to save the tech transport.
2. Give the player a choice where to in-mission jump / autopilot to, the location of the refugees or the tech transport. You could easily use the WCS style autopilot code to do this.


Anyway, if I'm wrong and there are some good ways to do this sort of thing using the scriptbox, I'd be interested in hearing them. Especially since it was the method that everyone seemed to suggest. I'm always worried about making things look too much like "Press X to pay respects" so I tend to base mission branching on player actions rather than choices. So how would the other mission designers present choices?

Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: JSRNerdo on February 11, 2017, 08:25:07 pm
BTA did this quite well! You had 3 convoys to escort but had to prioritize one, so you used the escort list to pick which one to prioritize and it automated the wingmen AI orders to focus your wingmen on that one.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: Axem on February 11, 2017, 08:31:25 pm
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, just how it meshes in with your setting/storytelling.

The PromptBox probably fits better with a defined talking player character, while pure actions sit better with silent player characters. Just what works I guess!
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: karajorma on February 11, 2017, 08:40:00 pm
Yeah, but it never hurts to discuss how other FREDders handle this sort of thing. :)
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: hack-wizard on February 11, 2017, 10:40:01 pm
I'd seen the SOC option but ... I personally feel that having to make the choice, verses either choosing a mission that appears to be optional by dialog styling and finding out it was really an XOR choice is a bit deceptive and would personally leave a bad taste in my mouth.  Also, I think getting presented with a direct exclusive binary choice, where it is made clear to the player that the other option will be failed adds more depth to the gameplay and different routes for success or failure.

I know, I'm a nerd.  :cool:
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: karajorma on February 11, 2017, 10:48:09 pm
There's no reason you can't make it clear in the briefing that it's an XOR. That said, you would get the "Skip Loop" button appearing which would be rather annoying.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: hack-wizard on February 11, 2017, 10:49:33 pm
Quote from: karajorma on February 11, 2017, 10:48:09 pm
There's no reason you can't make it clear in the briefing that it's an XOR. That said, you would get the "Skip Loop" button appearing which would be rather annoying.

Yeah, that makes it look pretty kludged ...
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: General Battuta on February 12, 2017, 10:17:20 am
Call of Duty Black Ops 2 is the most recent gold standard (see also Alpha Protocol, Deus Ex) on how to handle reactivity without ever popping up a MAKE A DECISION window.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 12, 2017, 10:26:54 am
For me, it depends on how big of a choice? If it's Save X or Save Y in the same mission.. I prefer to do something in that mission. I'd probably use the escort list thing again that I did in BtA or just instruct the player to close in on the ship he/she needs to protect because (duh) that's how you protect them. Then use SEXPs to watch which ship the player gets closer to and base the rest of the mission events off of that.

If we're choosing where to jump to or something similar, then yeah.. go with the mission loop option.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: JSRNerdo on February 12, 2017, 05:29:20 pm
Quote from: General Battuta on February 12, 2017, 10:17:20 am
Call of Duty Black Ops 2 is the most recent gold standard (see also Alpha Protocol, Deus Ex) on how to handle reactivity without ever popping up a MAKE A DECISION window.

Ok but how does blops2 actually do this. I have never played a Call of Duty game.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: hack-wizard on February 12, 2017, 07:23:12 pm
Quote from: JSRNerdo on February 12, 2017, 05:29:20 pm
Quote from: General Battuta on February 12, 2017, 10:17:20 am
Call of Duty Black Ops 2 is the most recent gold standard (see also Alpha Protocol, Deus Ex) on how to handle reactivity without ever popping up a MAKE A DECISION window.

Ok but how does blops2 actually do this. I have never played a Call of Duty game.

Nor have I, not my cup of tea really.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: xenocartographer on February 13, 2017, 06:30:48 pm
My biggest consideration in decision-making interfaces is naturalness. Does this actually feel like something that could happen in a real-world situation? Windmills doing everything through the comms board felt natural because that's how we command fighters in this 'verse; BTA's Acts of Volition felt natural because of course the most important ships would be on your escort list. Conversely, while One Future and The Blade Itself are technically impressive and extremely fun missions, their interface feels grafted on because it's completely unlike anything in Freespace so far.

So, if players deciding between missions (rescue transport/rescue science ship in this example) is going to be a big thing in a campaign, I'd incorporate an in-mission jump mechanic or BTA-esque system map that can be extended into mission selection when that comes up. :)
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: hack-wizard on February 13, 2017, 09:06:59 pm
That's a good way to do it I think, and I've got an idea now for forcing the user to make the choice in the thick of it:

The mission is just a routine sector patrol, you get a message that refugee ships are going to be jumping in from a combat zone, attackers hot on their heels ... but wait, you're getting a distress call from a science convoy on the other side of the system!  Command indicates they have evaluated both objectives of equal strategic value and that either has an equivalent chance of surviving should you be present, and gives you as the wingleader command authority to decide whether to jump out for the science ships, or proceed to the new nav point 3km off where the refugees will be jumping in.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: karajorma on February 13, 2017, 09:27:13 pm
I like that, but you'll probably find that in the case you describe the vast majority of players won't jump out. I suspect players will believe there is a huge difference between abandoning a mission to save refugees and abandoning refugees to save another ship.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: hack-wizard on February 13, 2017, 09:42:16 pm
Yeah, so probably better to have the science convoy jump in, that might make it a harder choice.
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: xenocartographer on February 13, 2017, 09:50:13 pm
Yup, Alt-J as player choice is an idea I've been playing with for a while myself. You need to make it extremely clear that you're not going to get an AWOL debrief :)
Title: Re: How to handle player choices?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 26, 2017, 05:27:54 am
One of the options I am currently investigating is to use player loadout to shape the missions. If my PC hadn't gone down you would have seen the first iteration in The Lost Generation, spoilers below:

Spoiler:
TLG Mission 10, WIP name "Dark Amaltheia"

The mission revolves around the NTF attacking the Epsilon Pegasi-Capella Blockade. However the sorry state of NTF Command throws a wrench into the planned operation and the attack force lead by the NTD Vasa has to make due.

During the loadout you have the option to pick either a Zeus or a Medusa as your bomber. The mission checks that choice in the beginning, and then has two tracks for the mission to progress.

If you picked the Zeus, your objectives will be taking out subsystems on enemy capital ships (disableing the Mjorlnirs) as well as turrets (allowing ship to ship combat). Additionally you will be tasked with helping against the bombers launched from the Messana.

If you picked the Medua, your objetives will be more focussed on taking out Cruisers/Corvettes and the Mjolnirs at the node.

The whole thing is still unbalanced (the Medusa path is easier despite the Medusa) and needs a little work.

Of course, these things can be adapted with the proper introduction in the briefing, as well as more meaningful shaping of the mission...