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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Nuke on August 13, 2002, 08:14:51 pm

Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nuke on August 13, 2002, 08:14:51 pm
i am sure that everyone is familiar with the particle spew flag. i was wondering if anyone could impliment a particle based rendering system that could be used in place of the current laser code. the paticle spew flag is fine and dandy for flak, it woud be a little better if we had the option to select a particle ani. it would be totally awesome if we could control everything to do with particles. instead of having a tag that adds 3 little particles behind a model or a rendered laser, we could have a number of tags that allows great flexibility so that we can have paricle stream weapons, railguns with 3d particle trails,  animated sprites, shotgun weapons, and the like.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Solatar on August 13, 2002, 10:14:00 pm
Yeah, that would be cool. You said it adds stuff behind a missile? You could get something that looks like smoke is flying out. real looking smoke, those trails aren't THAT great.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nuke on August 13, 2002, 10:52:08 pm
Yea cool, particle smoke effects, good idea. it would be cool if it replace the polymodel thruster flames as well. i think a well done particle flame looks better anyway.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Kazan on August 20, 2002, 10:59:21 am
don't waste it on the thrusters - they're barely visible - but particle smoke. A+
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nico on August 20, 2002, 11:04:57 am
sorry for not being very original, but first I'd like to see the damaged ships to spew much longer particle trails, like on those WW2 videos where you saw the damaged fighters leave 1km long trails. That'd be neat.
really, if you look at other games, you can do so many things with particles it's crazy. I could make a list, but it would be looooooooooong so i'll spare you with it.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Bobboau on August 20, 2002, 08:26:00 pm
we need
A- better poly rendering code, the DX8 upgrade should handel this
B- poly transparency that doesn't make everything glow
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nuke on August 20, 2002, 08:35:11 pm
i personally like particle trails for there 3d apearance, as an alternate to 2d bitmap trails. im not too sure how efficient the existinhg freespace particle code is. if it is too huge a factor on performance then it copletely trhows my particle ideas out the window (unless the particle code is seriously optimized).

i think ships in freespace are too slow to have 1km long smoketrails look good. in space smoke scatters out and fades away really fast. so the ship would have to cover alot of space really fast in order to make the trails that long. remember that WW2 fighters fly in an atmosphere, where pressure differences are much less and smoke fading is slower. ms combat flight sim 2 has some nice smoke effects.

an idea of rendering paricle based object is to have a simple single object pof file to use as a bounding box. the geometry is not renderd, and is only used to specify where particles should apear. particles are rendered in random locations within the bounding object. particles may or may not bove around within the box depending on the effect you want. when rendered the effect should apear to have some depth. making all particles transparent would be too cpu intensive, so only particles that are near the edges of the bounding model would be transparent.

in the tables you should specify a bounding model, number of particles, particle effects (ani, bitmap, or an rgba value for single color particles), particle size, particle movement (0 for none, higher for more), and opacity scaling (how much of the effect is transparent).

also particle beams, thruster plumes (you could actually use the flame's submodel as a bounding object in this case), and missile trails could be done. for beams and trails you could use the same values that determine a 2d object's size to determine a 3d area that particle effects should be rendered.

also a few other flags (similar to particle spew) could be used for more complicated effect like railgun trails and shotgun blasts.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: tomcat on August 21, 2002, 01:53:47 am
Why in the hell u wanna have shotgun efects in FS2???
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Bobboau on August 21, 2002, 02:00:43 am
I think it would be cool
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nico on August 21, 2002, 04:21:21 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
i think ships in freespace are too slow to have 1km long smoketrails look good. in space smoke scatters out and fades away really fast. so the ship would have to cover alot of space really fast in order to make the trails that long. remember that WW2 fighters fly in an atmosphere, where pressure differences are much less and smoke fading is slower.


hem no, that's the exact contrary: in space, no atmosphere, no pression at all. never heard about the apollo13 pilots describing the water trail the capsule left behind it? it wasn't 1 km, it was something like 50 km long coherent trail... in space, trails stay coherent much longer than in atmosphere where you have winds, strong gravitation, pressure differences, etc.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nico on August 21, 2002, 04:22:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by tomcat
Why in the hell u wanna have shotgun efects in FS2???


never played mechwarrior? :)
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Bobboau on August 21, 2002, 04:50:52 am
what about doing a trail like effect (like missle trails) for damage trails (in addition to the existing particle emitters)
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nico on August 21, 2002, 05:04:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
what about doing a trail like effect (like missle trails) for damage trails (in addition to the existing particle emitters)


that's what i said, just I thought making the exisiting damage trail much longer would be enough?
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Bobboau on August 21, 2002, 05:06:01 am
well the exsisting damage trail isn't a trail, it's a particle emiter
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nico on August 21, 2002, 05:26:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
well the exsisting damage trail isn't a trail, it's a particle emiter


make the emitter life bigger, and it'll turn into a trail.
Title: Venom...
Post by: Star Dragon on August 21, 2002, 05:51:47 am
I understand...

He wants an AC20!

Oh God, he wants to mount an AC20 on an URSA!!!
Then he can go to any ship and literally BLOW them to pieces! (talk about a subsystem killer!). Hey Venom make sure you capture the sound too! (Bang!)...(Turrent blows off a Sathanus with one shot!) :lol:
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nico on August 21, 2002, 05:57:53 am
mmh? Nuke, you mean, not me, I suppose.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Alikchi on August 21, 2002, 07:02:09 am
Talk to WM Coolmon about that :nod:
I wouldn't mind flying a Visigoth around. I tried to make a PPC weapon, it didn't work out (but it could have)
Title: Re: Venom...
Post by: AqueousShadow on August 21, 2002, 12:53:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Star Dragon
I understand...

He wants an AC20!

Oh God, he wants to mount an AC20 on an URSA!!!
Then he can go to any ship and literally BLOW them to pieces! (talk about a subsystem killer!). Hey Venom make sure you capture the sound too! (Bang!)...(Turrent blows off a Sathanus with one shot!) :lol:


I think he was actually talking to YOU, not meaning that you were the one he was actually talking ABOUT. :nod:
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Grey Wolf on August 21, 2002, 01:14:20 pm
Hmm..... For my current concept ship, I'm making the primaries as close to PPCs as possible. Huge trail, EM effect, nice damage, slow reload. Imagine LRM-20s in FS2....
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: WMCoolmon on August 21, 2002, 01:27:37 pm
*digs out old picture*
(http://members.cox.net/~wmcoolmon/images/2_LoadStingray.gif)
Stingray (http://members.cox.net/~wmcoolmon/images/stingray.gif)
Clan Kirghiz (http://members.cox.net/~wmcoolmon/images/screen00.jpg)
Clan Kirghiz 2 (http://members.cox.net/~wmcoolmon/images/screen01.jpg)
Clan Kirghiz 3 (http://members.cox.net/~wmcoolmon/images/screen02.jpg)
Too bad the POF data got deleted when I forgot it was there and reinstalled Freespace :(
(Models were made by the BTSW (http://www.battletechmodproductions.com/btsw) team.)
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nuke on August 21, 2002, 08:37:10 pm
you do know that freespace uninstaller doesnt uninstall mods by default. i too had to dump freespace, i backed up the data directory, but it was pointless because the uninstaller didnt touch it.

the idea for shotgun weapons is more for pirate and civilian ships. id think that the gtva would forbid civilians to have certain grades of weapons (kinda like how we can have hand guns, but not full automatics). civilians probibly use ammo consuming weapons or light energy weapons no guided missiles. also the gtva keeps shield tech a close seecret, so most non-military have weak shields or none at all. pirates will have better weapons than civilians bacause they can hijack military cargo ships to get stuff.

of course the shotgun weapons i was thinking of would not be as powerfull as the mw2 ac20, their effect on hull and shield would be weak. more for shooting down bombs.

now i must smak mr. venom with the laws of phisics textbook:
:::smack!:::
there that feels better.

in space there is zero pressure, but the exaust is under massive pressure. when that exaust hits space those atoms are gona fly everywhere to spread out. this also aplies to anything that can leak from a broken spaceship. most liquids boil under zero pressure conditions, which makes pressure and atoms that wanno go fly everywhere (remember the sceen in apollo 13 where they ejected the urine :D ). also an apollo spacecraft probibly goes many hundred times the speed a freespace ship does, meaning trails are gonna be scattered out and therefore longer. dont get me wrong, freespace ships are slow, they dont even break the sound barrier.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: tomcat on August 22, 2002, 01:46:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506


never played mechwarrior? :)


witch one Venom:)? Merc2, Merc2 Mercenaries, Mech 3, etc..:)

I don't like SHotguns....is like Huntin' "wabits":)
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Solatar on August 22, 2002, 06:05:14 am
I think intercepter pilots should use shotguns, after all, I fyou can't hit something with a shotgun, your aim kind of sucks. it would be great for shooting down bombs.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nico on August 22, 2002, 06:29:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by Hades
I think intercepter pilots should use shotguns, after all, I fyou can't hit something with a shotgun, your aim kind of sucks. it would be great for shooting down bombs.


In FS2, I would call that a flak gun, and, Nuke, how do you dare smacking me? i don't allow you, you, you... her... "looks at postcount", yeah, that's it, you newbie :D (that's a pun, don't be shocked :p )
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Fozzy on August 22, 2002, 11:56:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
don't waste it on the thrusters - they're barely visible - but particle smoke. A+


Wouldent thruster smoke be cool if your ship is damaged, that looks more realistic than juust the crackling electricity, also you could change the texturemaps of LOD1 to a version with weapon impacts. :nod:

I also like the sound of transfers on the hull of a ship where your weapon impacted
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: vyper on August 22, 2002, 01:54:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Fozzy


Wouldent thruster smoke be cool if your ship is damaged, that looks more realistic than juust the crackling electricity, also you could change the texturemaps of LOD1 to a version with weapon impacts. :nod:

I also like the sound of transfers on the hull of a ship where your weapon impacted


U mean damage decals?
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Anaz on August 22, 2002, 06:22:44 pm
well...I would get into the differences between Btech autocannons, but then it would look like spamming...

but yes, particles would be cool. It would be kinda cool if you made a weapon that went really really fast, and had particles, it would be this big long particle line that would fade away, that would look soooo cool...
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nuke on August 22, 2002, 08:14:00 pm
newbie my ass, i was there from the beginning, back when freespace had the name descent in front of it. i was a mighty fanboy of the legedary vbb, :ha:, so there!
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Grey Wolf on August 22, 2002, 09:04:56 pm
Yep, I remember that. Setekh had quite a few more posts though....
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nuke on August 22, 2002, 10:56:25 pm
and how many of those were bull$h!t? all mine were genuine usefull and interesting posts.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Anaz on August 22, 2002, 11:27:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
and how many of those were bull$h!t? all mine were genuine usefull and interesting posts.


:lol: sorry, but that is hard to believe that all of them were genuine useful and interesting posts...
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: Nuke on August 26, 2002, 08:32:39 pm
ok, i admit 100 or so of them were anti-tas propaganda.
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: gevatter Lars on August 27, 2002, 06:17:37 am
About the BattleTech things...is anyone making something like a BT mod?
I have tried to make a LRM20, but haven't got any sucsess with it.
But wouldn't it be cool to have an Naval LRM20 for the caps and see them firing that things at each other?
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: IceFire on August 27, 2002, 09:48:54 am
Mmm...particle trails.  That'd make some missile trails very cool.  A very short and thick orange particle trail followed by a darker grey one.  Sweet!
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: WMCoolmon on August 27, 2002, 02:23:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by gevatter Lars
About the BattleTech things...is anyone making something like a BT mod?
I have tried to make a LRM20, but haven't got any sucsess with it.
But wouldn't it be cool to have an Naval LRM20 for the caps and see them firing that things at each other?

http://www.battletechmodproductions.com
Check the bottom of the first news post. :nod:
Title: particle based weapon effects
Post by: IceFire on August 27, 2002, 05:03:30 pm
The font on the MOD website is....big.  And blue :D