Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Sandwich on August 15, 2002, 04:50:18 am
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Just peeked at the intel anims again, and I think :v: made a boo-boo with the intel_earth.ani one - it depicts the Lucifer half-emerging from subspace and exploding - in Delta Serpentis!
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Just peeked at the intel anims again, and I think :v: made a boo-boo with the intel_earth.ani one - it depicts the Lucifer half-emerging from subspace and exploding - in Delta Serpentis!
Wot?
Which vp file is that in and I'll go inspect further?
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smarty_fs2.vp
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your quite right. thats really odd:confused:
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Yeah I noticed that...I think they goofed or something :D
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Maybe it's to illustrate that the Lucifer's destruction cut of fDelta Serpentis' access to Earth or summat......
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How did the GTVA get the footage of the Lucifer exploding anyway?
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Very carefully :D
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
How did the GTVA get the footage of the Lucifer exploding anyway?
Maybe the GTVA digitally reconstructed what they believed to happen.
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Originally posted by Pegasus V
Maybe the GTVA digitally reconstructed what they believed to happen.
Bah! Nonsense! How the heck could they possibly "digitally reconstruct" something so cataclysmic? The very idea is ridiculous, it's absurd! You can't do that type of stuff!
:wink:
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Sol is a whole 4.2 lightyears from Alpha Centauri, if Sol broadcast the thing, it would take a number of years to reach Alpha Centauri but it would still get there before FS2
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Originally posted by LtNarol
Sol is a whole 4.2 lightyears from Alpha Centauri, if Sol broadcast the thing, it would take a number of years to reach Alpha Centauri
Though havent we already established that they must communicate through subspace? I'm not sure its written anywhere, but it seems rediculous not to. Would Sol or the rest of the GTVA know how to pick up each others transmissions? Sure, a radio telescope, but what frequency do you use? Unless there's one already established as the frequency, which makes us wonder why the GTVA didnt jsut radio earth.
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Originally posted by beatspete
Though havent we already established that they must communicate through subspace? I'm not sure its written anywhere, but it seems rediculous not to. Would Sol or the rest of the GTVA know how to pick up each others transmissions? Sure, a radio telescope, but what frequency do you use? Unless there's one already established as the frequency, which makes us wonder why the GTVA didnt jsut radio earth.
You would use a frequency close to the 21cm hydrogen band. That's where SETI is looking now (mainly) and it's therefore a good choice for communication between Earth and Alpha Centuri. As for why Earth and the GTVA haven`t established contact. Who knows? There is a story there certainly. :)
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It's a conspiracy! Like, apparently, most things in the FS universe.
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Well, if they use subspace, they probably relay them through the nodes, as they are the links between systems. If the Node to Earth was destroyed, they can't send no subspace message through it. And a conventional means would take a while.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Bah! Nonsense! How the heck could they possibly "digitally reconstruct" something so cataclysmic? The very idea is ridiculous, it's absurd! You can't do that type of stuff!
:wink:
No it isn't. TLC and discovery channels do it all the time.
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So do most movies these days - and FreeSpace itself! :D
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Bah...it's not a correct reconstruction, anyway. The Lucifer doesn't have any debris. Look at the pof. :p
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None of the ships have enough debris anyway! :D
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Originally posted by beatspete
Though havent we already established that they must communicate through subspace? I'm not sure its written anywhere, but it seems rediculous not to. Would Sol or the rest of the GTVA know how to pick up each others transmissions? Sure, a radio telescope, but what frequency do you use? Unless there's one already established as the frequency, which makes us wonder why the GTVA didnt jsut radio earth.
Yeah, that was a thread from a good number of months - maybe even a year or so ago. Basically, the canon is that:
[list=A]
- As of FS2, the GTVA has not succeeded in contacting Sol - fact.
- Frequency issues would not be any sort of problem whatsoever - it doesn't take all that much to monitor all the possible frequencies (relative to the resources the GTVA and Sol have at their disposal). Therefore, since we can assume with 100% certainty that they did try to contact each other using non-subspace methods, we must conclude that there is some sort of interference preventing non-subspace communications from successfully reaching from Sol to Alpha Centauri or vice versa.
However, since ~33 (?) years have passed since contact was lost with Sol, we can assume that non-subspace contact with Sol is impossible from _any_ system within a ~16.5 (33 / 2 = 16.5, the time it would take for a message to be recieved, replied to and for the reply to be recieved) lightyear radius, since surely all alternatives would have been tried by the GTVA.
Did I miss anything? :D
Originally posted by Thor
No it isn't. TLC and discovery channels do it all the time.
Originally posted by Killfrenzy
So do most movies these days - and FreeSpace itself! :D
Forgive me for not including the SARCASM TAG in my post, but I thought that the very act of us discussing a video file created by 20th century artists using 20th century computers would have been enough to make clear my sarcasm. Evidently not. :doubt:
Heck, I even included that wink smiley for good measure! :wink:
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i know why earth hasn't contacted the GTVA yet. because when the lucifer popped out of subspace....well the front half anyway.....the radiation released from her reactors screwed the earth up....now it's that horrible planet of the apes. ok.......
next theory.......
we all know that shivans can travel through subspace without nodes, or at least that is beleived by some. if you subscribe to this theory......the shivans have been at terra this whole time, wondering makes us tick. After all, they had already beaten the vasudans, they wanted to know what finally defeated them. And they were finding out. Communications have been cut off by the shivans.
next theory......
if you do not subscribe to the "shivans don't need portals" theory, then perhaps an explosion large enough to kill a natural portal disrupted the em balance of the entire system.....remember that in the early 80's it appeared that the planets were going to line up, and the gravitational forces would rip them all apart. or so the hypothesis went.
If we expand on this just a little, the position of the planets in relation to one another, coupled with that event (detonating subspace node) created some new anomolies, or at the very least trashed all of the EM...acting like the EM pulse of a giant nuke, capable of disrupting an entire star system. With an EM pulse of that magnitude, we would be looking at a world that has thrown itself into barbarism, because it was suddenly without all of it's technology.
Why didn't this happen in the other systems when we closed portals purposely? That's easy. The planets of our solar system were aligned in such a way that it could happen. This however was a fluke. And will probably not happen again in the next million years. In any system.
last theory......
i am full of crap, and this has all been an exercise in imagination.
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Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
and this has all been an exercise in imagination.
That part I agree with wholeheartedly; I haven't heard that kind of "deep" reply to something in months! :)
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well we do try here at the home for the criminally insa......at the facility.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
As of FS2, the GTVA has not succeeded in contacting Sol - fact.
Not correct. Pilots of alpha one's rank are completely unaware of any contact between Sol and the GTVA - Fact
Earth has contacted the GTVA but it has been covered up for some reason (A war on earth has killed billions, Earth under attack from shivans) - Possibility.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Not correct. Pilots of alpha one's rank are completely unaware of any contact between Sol and the GTVA - Fact
Earth has contacted the GTVA but it has been covered up for some reason (A war on earth has killed billions, Earth under attack from shivans) - Possibility.
I think a scenario like this would be more likely. Given that the technology to communicate over distances involved is in existance, and would most likely not have been forgotten by the GTVA to the point where it's totally irretrievable.
In the game/s, do they actually say that they haven't had any contact with Earth whatsoever? On the one hand, I seem to remember them focusing on the jumpnode - x amount of years since the jump node was collapsed, re-establish the node so they can visit Earth etc. On the other hand, were't they somewhat concerned that they didn't know what had happened to Earth in the meantime?
I must play FS2 again very soon....
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Well the comment that the GTVA think that earth's civilisation has fallen is a pretty intersting one. With no communication between Sol and the GTVA there is little reason to think that.
On the other hand, if they've tried and recieved no responce at all......
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Now that is very interesting. Assuming the GTVA sends a signal from Alpha Centauri, it's going to take them 9 years to get a response. If they don't hear back they can either assume that Earth either missed the message, didn't know how to respond for whatever reason, or weren't able to respond due to being nonexistant - you get the idea. After listening Earthward for a few months/years to make sure they don't miss the reply, they send another message. Again another 9 year wait. So maybe 19 years has passed in total where they've sent 2 "conversational" comminucations, and haven't received a reply. The more messages they send with no reply, the more likely it would be to assume that they're unable to respond, possibly leading to their assumption that Earth's civilisation has fallen.
Without such communications, they would have to rely on hypothesis and conjecture - maybe people became panicky and rioted at the mention of the Lucifer heading their way, maybe Earth can't cope without contact and trade with other systems - heaven forbid that they should sink back to 21st century levels where Earth could survive on its own....
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actually it's just as feasible that the resultant vibrations in the harmonics of a collapsing jump node could have destroyed the subspace transmitter in the sol system, in much the same way that sonic welders use sound vobrations to put together the dolls for little tykes. It's also equally possible that this created a cataclysm that finished destroying the ozone layer......and everyone on earth is dead from radiation. i just hope my exwife was home when this happened.
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Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
i just hope my exwife was home when this happened.
:lol:
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Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
actually it's just as feasible that the resultant vibrations in the harmonics of a collapsing jump node could have destroyed the subspace transmitter in the sol system, in much the same way that sonic welders use sound vobrations to put together the dolls for little tykes.
But that doesn`t explain why Earth hasn`t been using simpler methods to communicate with the GTVA.
Humankind has the technology to send messages to Alpha Centuri now.
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i discuss that in my earlier post in this thread.
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my list of reasons:
- EM interference (or weird subspace effects) from destruction of Lucy and/or D-S node continue to wreak havoc around Sol, causing so much noise it's impossible to get a clear signal out
- EMP (see above) sent Earthlings back to 18th century technology
- Vasudans in the system decided they liked Earth better than the smoking wreckage of Vasuda Prime and overthrew the government
- Lucy #2 popped in and baked Earth
- GTVI has been communicating with them for 20 years but it's classified Level Omega
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- The Lucifer did sterilize Earth and then vanished.
OK, here's a question; what would happen if a ship tried to enter the Delta Serpentis-Sol node, from the D.S. side?
And how could the GTVA be absolutely sure the Lucy was destroyed? Last Terran Command heard Alpha-Beta-Gamma-Delta wings jumped out after the Lucifer and none were heard from again.
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Techroom:
From the Delta Serpentis system, a squadron launched from the GTD Bastion pursued the Lucifer into the Sol jump node. These fighters and bombers had to destroy the Lucifer's reactors before the superdestroyer extinguished all life on Earth.
According to declassified transmissions, the mission succeeded. However, the explosion of the Lucifer created a subspace cataclysm that collapsed the Sol jump node, severing all contact between Earth and the other systems of Terran-Vasudan space.", 3185)
$end_multi_text
Case closed, the Lucifer was destroyed.
The GTVA probably got this radio transmission from Earth and then nothing.:no:
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One thing. If the EM radiation is bad enough to prevent Sol getting a message out it would also be bad enough that it could be detected from Alpha Centuri.
In that case there would be no reason for command to assume that Sol couldn`t take the loss of the jump node. They'd know exactly why Earth hadn`t contacted them.
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
OK, here's a question; what would happen if a ship tried to enter the Delta Serpentis-Sol node, from the D.S. side?
When you're at the dentist's office, and he tells you to spit into that bowl and you do so, there is that annoying line of spittle strung from your lip to the bowl, correct? Now, what happens when you remove its connection to the bowl? It collapses and smears all over your lip and chin. :D
Now you draw the analogy. :lol:
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Originally posted by Sandwich
When you're at the dentist's office, and he tells you to spit into that bowl and you do so, there is that annoying line of spittle strung from your lip to the bowl, correct? Now, what happens when you remove its connection to the bowl? It collapses and smears all over your lip and chin. :D
Now you draw the analogy. :lol:
OK, I really need to block that mental image :shaking: I don't want to know how you thought up that one...
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Originally posted by penguin
my list of reasons:- EM interference (or weird subspace effects) from destruction of Lucy and/or D-S node continue to wreak havoc around Sol, causing so much noise it's impossible to get a clear signal out
- EMP (see above) sent Earthlings back to 18th century technology
[/B]
Was there any mention/indication at all of the proximity of the Sol jump node to Earth? It's entirely possible that the node's our past Saturn. In that case, then the EM effects wouldn't really affect Earth any more than something like Jupiter or the Sun.
When other ships are destroyed, specifically superships such as the Sathanas or Colossus, there is no mention of EMP interfering with anything. Indeed, you are still able to communicate with wingmen and other ships, and that far off entity known as Command. Was Lucifer really that special, and different, to cause such a large amount of EMP/subspace distortion? For the case of subspace interference, remember that the Epsilon Pegasi node was collapsed while ships were still engaged in Capella. There was no sign of any changes to subspace - ships kept on jumping. And you are still able to communicate in system and beyond.
This doesn't mean that there was no effect at all on Earth. A lot of this depends on where the node was in relation to the planet.
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Originally posted by penguin
OK, I really need to block that mental image :shaking: I don't want to know how you thought up that one...
LOL - just look for Cosby's The Dentist MP3 on Kazaa... :D
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Originally posted by Kazashi
Was there any mention/indication at all of the proximity of the Sol jump node to Earth? It's entirely possible that the node's our past Saturn. In that case, then the EM effects wouldn't really affect Earth any more than something like Jupiter or the Sun.
The cutscene at the end of FS:TGW show Lucy jumping in (or at least half of her) jumping in not far from the Moon.
Could be artistic license, though :) Are cutscenes considered canon? We all know about the errors in the FS2 intro...
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Originally posted by Sandwich
LOL - just look for Cosby's The Dentist MP3 on Kazaa... :D
I've heard that one before, it is funny.
Part of the reason I shudder was that I was at the dentist just last week getting some old fillings replaced -- they were probably older than most people on this board ;) ...
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Originally posted by penguin
We all know about the errors in the FS2 intro...
We do? :nervous:
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I can think of four:
[list=1]
- The manticore fires its lasers WAY too fast, and in cyclical rather than linked mode. Can't be done, and was never FS canon.
- The beam shot by the Lucy through the Orion came out of the side, later called the lateral cannon - I can't remember the superdestroyer having beams anywhere but on its forward arms in FS1.
- The devastation of Deneb; the shivans were said to be ignoring control of the planets they came across, rather focusing on control of individual jump nodes (FS1 Briefing), so the biosphere of the planet should be relatively intact. The destruction of the Vasuda Prime biosphere came as a surprise, and that would have been after Deneb.
- There is a Hades destroyer crashed on the surface of the planet.
[/list=1]
That Hades really bothers me more than anything else.
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That Hades really bothers me more than anything else.
Same here; that is the main thing that one can tell is blatantly wrong at first glance. Did Volition make the movies themselves or hire another company to do them?
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Originally posted by StratComm
I can think of four:
[list=1]
- The manticore fires its lasers WAY too fast, and in cyclical rather than linked mode. Can't be done, and was never FS canon.
- The beam shot by the Lucy through the Orion came out of the side, later called the lateral cannon - I can't remember the superdestroyer having beams anywhere but on its forward arms in FS1.
- The devastation of Deneb; the shivans were said to be ignoring control of the planets they came across, rather focusing on control of individual jump nodes (FS1 Briefing), so the biosphere of the planet should be relatively intact. The destruction of the Vasuda Prime biosphere came as a surprise, and that would have been after Deneb.
- There is a Hades destroyer crashed on the surface of the planet.
[/list=1]
That Hades really bothers me more than anything else. [/B]
The Herc the camera follows has the wrong colour of light on its bottom 'strut' :d
I think :V: allowed themselves artistic licence.... the beam looks better from that side, IMO, and the Hades could just be a wry in-joke - you know, like the Space 2001 'pod' that crops up in Star Wars Ep.1, or the Independence War alien model in godzilla.... that sort of thing.
Anyways, do we actually know that Deneb was razed by the Shivans? It could just be a desert region that was shown.... or the crashing destroyers' explosion could have created that devastation, as well as scattering the bodies of its crewmembers.
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it wasn't the ship that caused all the em, it was the collapsiing of the node that did it.
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Have we decided yet what the name of that Orion was?
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lets just call it bob...
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Originally posted by Analazon
lets just call it bob...
Why would they have given it a Shivan name?? :confused:
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but I thought that bob was vasudan...
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Originally posted by Analazon
but I thought that bob was vasudan...
*mutters*
Bob the Shivan....
Bob the Vasudan....
*speaks up*
Huh! I guess you're right!
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Originally posted by Pegasus V
Maybe the GTVA digitally reconstructed what they believed to happen.
THat would also explain why an Ursa is outrunnng a lucy, which exits subspace at >514 mps...
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
OK, here's a question; what would happen if a ship tried to enter the Delta Serpentis-Sol node, from the D.S. side?
And how could the GTVA be absolutely sure the Lucy was destroyed? Last Terran Command heard Alpha-Beta-Gamma-Delta wings jumped out after the Lucifer and none were heard from again.
Although the bastions comm was damaged, they could talk to the pilots in subspace, so whats the chance that a pilot didn't sing with joy once 5 reactors were down?
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Have we decided yet what the name of that Orion was?
Originally posted by aldo14
That Hades really bothers me more than anything else.
Ok, these may be dumb questions, but does anyone remember what systems the Galetae and Hades were destroyed in? It's been a long time since i played TGW or ST. MY point being that maybe these were the hades and orion in the FS2 intro.
The beam cannon on the side of the lucifer is kinda annoying though. As for the bodys and the destruction on the planet, they may be left over from the T-V War?
EDIT: Didn't get the quote comment right
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Have we decided yet what the name of that Orion was?
Hmmmm...dunno, but it's NOT THE GALATEA. GTD Galatea was destroyed COMPLETELY.
I should go back and look at...OH, nvm *goes to VPview* *Remembers he uninstalled FS1*
*curses*
Originally posted by aldo14
That Hades really bothers me more than anything else.
Hades was destroyed shortly after the GTI Johtenhiem was taken out, in the Delta Serpentis System...I think...
And in Clash of The Titans, in FS1, there is supposed to be a cruiser in that mission as well...the GTC Warrior I think it was called, check it if you don't believe me! (It would've helped out the Bastion ALOT)
Can't think of anything else...OH WAIT! back to the FS1 intro, there was Hercs at Riviera station, WAY before they were introduced, am I right?
Cor
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:rolleyes: I didn't say that....:D
Wasn;t it the 'Legion' that was destroyed in the FS1 intro? I'm not sure it really matters, though - they probably couldn't have a good intro without an Orion being blown up :D
NB - about where the Lucifer fires it's beams from..... one of the cbanims from FS1 (cb_****vore.ani or thereabouts) shows a peculiar pronged section on that area of the lucifer.... so maybe that was intended to be the main beam for the render model. Of course, it could be that the Lucifer has a set of side beams for razing planets, and the superlaser was only used to destroy enemy capital ships.
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Originally posted by Corhellion
Hmmmm...dunno, but it's NOT THE GALATEA. GTD Galatea was destroyed COMPLETELY.
Well, i realize that ingame the Galatea was destroyed completely, thats just the way the engine works, but that does not make it completely acurate. With all the Cap Ships destroyed, i really doubt that every ship would be completely annihalated.
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Originally posted by Corhellion
OH WAIT! back to the FS1 intro, there was Hercs at Riviera station, WAY before they were introduced, am I right?
Actually the intro shows Hercs and Medusas as well as Apollos in that mission. Just because you didn't get to FLY them until Episode II doesn't mean they didn't EXIST. Example: Herc IIs and Artemis bombers were around when you started the FS2 campaign, but you weren't authorized to fly them.
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Ok, i did some reasearch using FRED. I think the Orion in the FS2 intro is the Galatea. The mission before the Galatea is destroyed you destroyed the Demon class crusier Eva in the Deneb system, and it is a carry-over mission into the destruction of the Galatea. I really think this shows that the Orion is in fact the Galatea. It would also make the most sense for the intro of FS2 to show that other than some other unknown Orion.
EDIT: as for the hades, i still am not sure about that.
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Search this has already been discussed, and almost everyone has agreed that the Orion in the FS2 Intro, IS NOT THE GALATEA, there were many OTHER Orions in Deneb at that time, the Minnow for example, and there was also a Typhon in the intro, and we didn't see any when the Galatea was taken down.
As for that hades...wheres Daveb when you need him!
Cor
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The cutscenes aren't really that accurate. It could be the USS Arizona for all we know. Though I don't think it is:p :p
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Originally posted by Corhellion
And in Clash of The Titans, in FS1, there is supposed to be a cruiser in that mission as well...the GTC Warrior I think it was called, check it if you don't believe me! (It would've helped out the Bastion ALOT)
Can't think of anything else...OH WAIT! back to the FS1 intro, there was Hercs at Riviera station, WAY before they were introduced, am I right?
Cor
Your right about the hercs, cause the cb says they've just been released... And the GTC Gladiator (close with Warrior) has an arrival cue as false, but it would be helpful...